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Just got around to watching it, and I would echo a lot of what others are saying about this finale being kind of rushed. Part of the problem is that the entire last episode was basically the 'we explain what REALLY happened' episode, along with a bunch of backstory. So we had almost nothing from the SWORD end of the series at all, which has to be very quickly resolved here. I would have liked more of Heyward being driven by what happened with the Blip and Thanos being the reason for him resurrecting Vision. That's reasonable. But instead they just make him into a cartoon villain who ends up having little importance in the end. My biggest issue is that we really don't get a lot of 'why' in this series. They do resolve everything with Wanda, but in the end we never really get why Agatha wants her power other than for power's sake. Heyward also just wants to take out Wanda for....reasons. I think the reason is supposed to be because she's going to interfere with his Vision resurrection plan, but that's not very fleshed out. I'm wondering how Spectral Vision is going to figure into things going forward. He just kind of fucks off and that's it, but I don't know if this is a case of them actually having a role for him going forward, or if it's a way to bring him back if they need him for something. I'm just not sure what movie he would turn up in unless it's Dr Strange 2. They did some setup here for Captain Marvel 2, even if it was brief.
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Mar 8, 2021 05:40
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I understand why Wanda wouldn't want to turn herself in, because in the MCU any ultra-powerful being who submits to authority is gonna be brainwashed and exploited by a corrupt shadow cabal of some sort. 100% guaranteed.
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Mar 8, 2021 06:03
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Mirage posted:I understand why Wanda wouldn't want to turn herself in, because in the MCU any ultra-powerful being who submits to authority is gonna be brainwashed and exploited by a corrupt shadow cabal of some sort. 100% guaranteed.
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Mar 8, 2021 06:08
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Splash Attack posted:black widow is literally an assassin who gets called out in one scene at the end of age of ultron when all the murders she did was declassified. it's never bought up in the movies again, she ends up the leader of the avengers in end game or something, and when she dies for the soul stone, it's viewed in universe as a tragic sacrifice despite everyone now knowing she assassinated people as a soviet spy. 
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Mar 8, 2021 06:08
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Bleck posted:what I really don't get is all the people saying that they don't get the people saying this despite what appears to be an absence of anybody saying that You just said the show absolved her whatever that means lol
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Mar 8, 2021 06:29
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It definitely doesn't absolve her....a good chunk of the last episode is about how hosed up what she did is, which I think was necessary.
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Mar 8, 2021 06:31
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i think the problem with the story is that its not technically complete, just wandas arc. its clear its tying in and setting up to other franchises and thats why monicas role feels so unsatisfying. we saw her get her powers but we dont know exactly how they works or really use them like wanda did, because thats obviously going to be all in captain marvel 2. people are saying that the story continues in MoM and new spider-man, so it may be a little too early to come to conclusions. itd be like getting mad that they never made it to mordor at the end of the fellowship of the ring. who knows, the fallout from wandavision could be touched or followed up on in there. imo wandavision was basically about wanda coming to terms with her grief and finding closure. in fact considering that vision in this series is literally created from her, it really is a show all about her.
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Mar 8, 2021 06:58
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XboxPants posted:Hmm well what's your favorite recent Marvel show? MCU or mcu-adjacent. I though Jessica Jones was pretty loving great, awesome cast, though I never actually finished it so I wouldn't be surprised if it's another Marvel property that sorta sputters out at the end. Legion is really good, and the closest you get to the feel of Wandavision. Agents of Shield is good solid action, and still my favorite Marvel tv.
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Mar 8, 2021 07:15
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Having thought about it for a couple days, I think being so grumpy about Wanda is just part of how unsatisfying a lot of the last episode was. The whole series was this dive into Wanda's grief and it was super refreshing with how weird and hosed up the situation was and how sinister so much surrounding everything in the show was. The final confrontation is you get the set up of Wanda cant just zap Agnes or it empowers her, and Agnes is more skilled but Wanda can just brute force stuff away. So it looks like it will take some creativity to resolve this fight. But no, they end it with some dragon ball z laser blasts. The giant air runes was clever but not enough to make up with how stale the rest was. Visions fight was super disappointing as you'd think a super robot with advanced AI could think of more creative use of their powers to fight but it's just punching and laser blasts again. They should have dumped all that and just gone straight to the philosophy fight, that was actually cool and interesting. They completely disuse the b team. Jimmy Woo makes one phone call then scoots off the stage, Darcy gets one line after driving a car into a humvee. Monica doesn't even have any effect on the resolution at all! Since she show'd up in episode 4 she's been going to bat for Wanda and being built up as the emotional link through their shared loss but she doesn't even talk to Wanda until the whole mess is over. Other than being a bullet shield, which wasn't even necessary the kid can catch bullets by himself just fine and the other has super speed! Then finally Monica gives Wanda a pat on the back and the whole "they'll never know what you sacrificed" was just where I threw up my arms and it's like come on she made that family up as part of this whole psychic mind gently caress maze! Those kids were in existence for like two days. You think the town is gonna thank Wanda for releasing them from the hell she put them in? After she wouldn't until they begged her to kill them? Half the planet lived through the snap it's not like having a poo poo load of people die in horrifying fashion is some sort of unique experience. Wanda just zips up her hoody and walks out to read her Necronomicon in her cozy cabin in the gorgeous mountains glades. It's just baffling when they were doing all this good poo poo before hand and they fail to stick any of those landings just made it how starkly bad it was compared to all the other stuff. Its Rinaldo fucked around with this message at 08:04 on Mar 8, 2021 |
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Mar 8, 2021 07:39
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sebmojo posted:You just said the show absolved her whatever that means lol me saying "it is strange and bad that they had a character walk up and say 'I'da done the same thing, probably'" is not the same thing as "I think wanda should be tortured for her crimes"
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Mar 8, 2021 07:49
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yeah i think the sword sub plot did weaken the series. episode 4 set us for really strong expectations, but the series was too short to really tell both sides of the story at once. sword sub plot really got shafted, wanda and monica really don't have a moment to get to know each other as their real selves even though they interacted with each other as their sitcom characters. in the end, darcy only got to meet vision and got left behind by him; she and jimmy never interact with wanda even though they'd tried to reach out to her. i mean, we start off episode 9 with jimmy in handcuffs and i have no idea how hayward found out - he and monica drove off to a different area where her work friends were waiting for her, and then i guess hayword arrested him off screen and not the others???? the finale def should have been split into two episodes, but to tell the story of sword and wanda, the series either had to have had more episodes, longer run times for the episodes, or both. i feel they did manage to stick to a decent ending for wanda, but it's hampered by the sword ending which is just so neatly wrapped up. i still enjoyed wandavision though, and i'm really eager for the behind the scenes episode. i'd definitely be interested in some off the record behind the scenes, because i'm a little curious as to what their expectations were initially because a lot of people didn't care about wanda or vision until now.
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Mar 8, 2021 08:00
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I just watched it. It was dumb that quicksilver turned out to be nothing. whats the deal there I didnt keep up with whatever the theories were but it seems dumb to just hire a guy to reprise his role but ohhh you were tricked. like if they did that with Michael Fassbender playing an unnamed man who controlled metal itd seem pretty strange. show was fine. it was better than xmen: apocalypse.
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Mar 8, 2021 09:37
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I took the ending as that Wanda is redeemable, not that what she did was ok. The audience is supposed to understand why she did what she did and sympathize with her, but also understand that what she did was wrong. If doing what she did was fine, she would have kept on doing it. Scarlet Witchs story just started and the combo of Agathas warning plus the shot of Wanda studying an evil text at the end makes it clear that shes going to do more bad things in the future.
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Mar 8, 2021 11:57
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Wanda has always been a grey character in the comics hasn't she? Sometimes she's good, sometimes she rewrites reality for all of creation
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Mar 8, 2021 12:26
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MechaSeinfeld posted:I just watched it. It was dumb that quicksilver turned out to be nothing. whats the deal there
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Mar 8, 2021 13:54
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FlamingLiberal posted:I mean they did straight up tell you in Ep 8 that he was just a random guy so Im not sure why people expected more than that He showed up in episode 5 so that gave people three weeks to let their imaginations run wild.
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Mar 8, 2021 14:26
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It was to trick dumb nerds to thinking X-men were coming back. Good on them for making them disappointed.
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Mar 8, 2021 14:58
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When disney is ready to bring mutants into the MCU it's gonna be a bunch of young unknown actors that they can sign to 10 year contacts for multiple movies and streaming series.
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Mar 8, 2021 15:28
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ONE YEAR LATER posted:When disney is ready to bring mutants into the MCU it's gonna be a bunch of young unknown actors that they can sign to 10 year contacts for multiple movies and streaming series. They probably want to minimize comparisons to Apocalypse and Dark Phoenix.
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Mar 8, 2021 15:29
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The show is really an origin story for Scarlet Witch. I think if you view the plot with that mind it makes a lot more sense overall. I think there's valid criticisms to be made around the details, but I don't think they're any worse than you could lob at most MCU stories.
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Mar 8, 2021 15:43
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stev posted:The protagonist of the first three phases was an arms dealer. Well, apparently only during part of the first movie. I recall because business "guru" Jim Cramer was very upset that the death machine seller was going to stop selling death machines. Then Stark did something else that somehow also made him assloads of money but that something was never clearly defined.
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Mar 8, 2021 16:02
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Ouhei posted:The show is really an origin story for Scarlet Witch. I think if you view the plot with that mind it makes a lot more sense overall. I think there's valid criticisms to be made around the details, but I don't think they're any worse than you could lob at most MCU stories.
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Mar 8, 2021 16:05
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Invalid Validation posted:It was to trick dumb nerds to thinking X-men were coming back. Good on them for making them disappointed. In a world where people guessed Agatha Harkness in Episode 1, I'm glad people were making guesses and getting them wrong.
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Mar 8, 2021 16:12
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Everyone posted:Well, apparently only during part of the first movie. I recall because business "guru" Jim Cramer was very upset that the death machine seller was going to stop selling death machines. Then Stark did something else that somehow also made him assloads of money but that something was never clearly defined. He "privatised world peace" which means "developed and hoarded the most powerful weapons on the planet in his house to act as a global deterrent" and I guess he got paid to do that? stev fucked around with this message at 16:22 on Mar 8, 2021 |
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Mar 8, 2021 16:16
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Ouhei posted:The show is really an origin story for Scarlet Witch. I think if you view the plot with that mind it makes a lot more sense overall. I think there's valid criticisms to be made around the details, but I don't think they're any worse than you could lob at most MCU stories. Right, in Doctor Strange 2, (or at some point) they're gonna go "Wanda had a horrid childhood, then her brother died, then her husband died, and it broke her, and now she's really powerful but also kind of pissed off" and the audience of that movie will go "Fine, ok, I buy that". And the audience who also saw the other Marvel movies will go "Yeah, I remember those things, ok, that makes sense" and the people that saw Wandvision will go "Yeah, I know that, ok". They haven't really advanced her plot, just nuanced that recap and retreat back into antagonist territory. Which, you know, is basically exactly what a mini series spin off between movies should be, right? And really, all it CAN ever be. You can't really just state something complicated as a fact and do a [*SEE ISSUE 32 - ED] like in the comics, you have to show it. So they can't really introduce much in WandaVision, they'd have to sum it up in a movie too. "There is a White Vision clone that the military made" and "Wanda is more powerful and angry now", are both pretty simple things to introduce in a movie without dwelling on them, but this series was the 'dwelling on it'.
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Mar 8, 2021 16:19
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Wanda could trap all of New Jersey in a hell dimension for years and not do the amount of harm that Tony Stark had done to the world.
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Mar 8, 2021 16:24
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swickles posted:So which of the townsfolk will emerge as a super villain 4 years from now wanting vengeance on Wanda and any other powered person? I am going with Dottie, but my darkhorse is Norm. BlackIronHeart posted:I want Dottie and her husband to get their own actual sitcom. Dottie makes a deal with a demon to get vengeance powers and Norm becomes her sidekick, The Mustache. We de-age Emma to look young and hot again, so it'll be an Anya origin story. "Then we'll add some young, hot, sexually aggressive teens/twenties girls to the cast that I can scream at and abuse just like in the good old days," Joss Whedon said, finishing his pitch to Disney. "Oops. I said the quiet part out loud again, didn't I?"
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Mar 8, 2021 16:25
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Thinking about stumbling into Wanda's cabin in RDR2 and finding that poo poo going on.
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Mar 8, 2021 16:28
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Everyone posted:Well, apparently only during part of the first movie. I recall because business "guru" Jim Cramer was very upset that the death machine seller was going to stop selling death machines. Then Stark did something else that somehow also made him assloads of money but that something was never clearly defined. In IM2 he briefly mentions Stark GMO crops when the blond reporter shows up again so I assume they have a diverse number of divisions with Stark Industries that are still very profitable. He's "an industrialist" so just a catch all rich guy with access to funds and technology.
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Mar 8, 2021 16:29
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BrianWilly posted:Wanda could trap all of New Jersey in a hell dimension for years and not do the amount of harm that Tony Stark had done to the world. And almost all of the good he's done since then involved stopping his own weapons (developed after he retired from arms dealing) from causing extinction level events.
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Mar 8, 2021 16:34
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ONE YEAR LATER posted:In IM2 he briefly mentions Stark GMO crops when the blond reporter shows up again so I assume they have a diverse number of divisions with Stark Industries that are still very profitable. He's "an industrialist" so just a catch all rich guy with access to funds and technology. The arc reactor seemed like cold fusion in the first movie and then he cracked it so presumably they started selling those. He had boxes full of them in Homecoming.
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Mar 8, 2021 16:39
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I think a big thing is that the MCU is never going to end. Characters do not have endings until way late in their roles, when actors stop caring to be in MCU stuff. Having Wanda have a breakdown and be real sad and feel bad about the people she hurt would be a great ending for a plot that was not gonna feature her again. Having her instead acknowledge that everyone is right to hate her and then gently caress off to study a book in an attempt to learn to control herself is a much better Sequel Hook ending, and MCU stuff always ends with sequel space.
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Mar 8, 2021 16:48
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BrianWilly posted:Wanda could trap all of New Jersey in a hell dimension for years and not do the amount of harm that Tony Stark had done to the world. I mean they already live in New Jersey.
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Mar 8, 2021 16:58
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Uh. Out of curiosity I read Loki's (the tv show) wikipedia and it's gonna have a second season  . I'm ready for that and I hope it's a good series.
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Mar 8, 2021 17:06
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BrianWilly posted:Wanda could trap all of New Jersey in a hell dimension for years and not do the amount of harm that Tony Stark had done to the world. Eh, I think a part of it is also that Tony's sins are a cog in the machine type of sin. If he didn't sell those weapons someone else probably would've. Wanda's is unique. No one is mind controlling and torturing a small town for shits and giggles.
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Mar 8, 2021 17:07
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BrianWilly posted:Wanda could trap all of New Jersey in a hell dimension for years and not do the amount of harm that Tony Stark had done to the world. On the other hand, because of Tony's wealth and because of how far technology can reach once extant Wanda could never do the amount of good that Tony Stark could at least potentially have done. He didn't do nearly as much as he could have, but between arc reactors (clean, efficient, long lasting and small reactors) and defensive technology he definitely could have done a huge amount of good. As is, I don't think we ever see arc reactors in use throughout the setting in civilian applications or anything. He did try to make his defensive technology more widely available between the Iron Legion in Avengers 2 and the drones in Spiderman: Far From Home, but only ever under the watch of 1 specific individual he trusted and not actually democratized or freely available. He also bankrolled the Avengers, and probably achieved more good through that one initiative than Wanda will ever achieve regardless. stev posted:And almost all of the good he's done since then involved stopping his own weapons (developed after he retired from arms dealing) from causing extinction level events. Ultron is the only weapon he created after retiring that he stops, as far as I recall; as well as the only one that could have caused an extinction level event. Which is putting aside that (a) it was as much Bruce's weapon as Tonys, yet I've literally never seen anyone, anywhere, ever put any modicum of blame for Ultron on Banner at all and that (b) Tony created a true AI capable of sapience, and it chose to create an extinction level event. It's kind of poo poo to put that on Tony's plate in the first place, in my opinion, when it was ultimately Ultron's own choice. Just like stopping Ultron was Vision's own choice. Who Tony also ultimately created, using the same methods that created Ultron.
Spiderman: Far From Home is about the closest thing to that description outside Ultron, and Tony was dead by then so it was other people acting at the time and not him.
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Mar 8, 2021 17:09
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Note that I'm also factoring in the equation that Stark is at least nominally culpable for setting Wanda down her spiral, through negligence, so everything bad that she's done can be traced, at least nominally, back to him. v v
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Mar 8, 2021 17:15
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There was originally going to be a scene where Seņor Scratchy turned into a demon. https://thedirect.com/article/wandavision-monica-ralph-senor-scratchy-demon-deleted-scene
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Mar 8, 2021 17:16
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Oasx posted:There was originally going to be a scene where Señor Scratchy turned into a demon. Disappointing, I crave more Bohner.
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Mar 8, 2021 17:22
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BrianWilly posted:Note that I'm also factoring in the equation that Stark is at least nominally culpable for setting Wanda down her spiral, through negligence, so everything bad that she's done can be traced, at least nominally, back to him. v I'd put some of that blame on Cap too then, since Tony at least wanted to restrain superheroes through the Sokovia Accords and Cap was the one who disagreed with the idea that heroes should have any oversight at all. You could probably trace a direct line from Wanda's dismissive attitude to repercussions at the end of the show to Steve's views in Civil War. She also possibly wouldn't be free to even do any of the things that happened in WandaVision following Civil War if not for Cap breaking her out of The Raft.
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Mar 8, 2021 17:24
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