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AJA
Mar 28, 2015


Edmund Lava posted:

That scene felt very jarring as edited so I would like to see that actually. It was just a quick jump to the dance party and all of sudden welp guys time to go with little actually happening.

I wonder what was supposed to happen.

Sam and Zemo teaching Bucky the Macarena.

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twistedmentat
Nov 21, 2003

What's a war hero got to do to get some lubrication around here?



Marsupial Ape posted:

Out of boredom, I just looked up the original comics biography of Baron Zeno. We better see some goddam Adhesive X before this is all over.

That was his dad.

The one thing that could have defeated the allies, making them all sticky.

sexpig by night
Sep 8, 2011
Probation
Can't post for 3 days!


twistedmentat posted:

That was his dad.

The one thing that could have defeated the allies, making them all sticky.

The Normandy landing getting real awkward and lame when all the invading guys get all gooped up and stuck in the sand.

Bust Rodd
Oct 21, 2008

In Rodd we Bust





just saw a funny blurb on IGN about how some fans keep going up to Sebastian Stan IRL and trying to activate the winter soldier with the words from the Red Star diary lmao

Jet Jaguar
Feb 12, 2006

Don't touch my bags if you please, Mr Customs Man.





Biscuit Hider

Bust Rodd posted:

just saw a funny blurb on IGN about how some fans keep going up to Sebastian Stan IRL and trying to activate the winter soldier with the words from the Red Star diary lmao

When they were doing Winter Soldier press tours, somebody asked him what comics he read as a kid and the answer was, "None, because I was a communist."

There's also a REALLY great clip floating around somewhere as somebody comes up to him at a con in a freeze chamber and he geeks out about how great it is. Can't find it at the moment, alas.

Marsupial Ape
Dec 15, 2020

...big ol' thick pumpernickel...


Bust Rodd posted:

just saw a funny blurb on IGN about how some fans keep going up to Sebastian Stan IRL and trying to activate the winter soldier with the words from the Red Star diary lmao

I hope he wordlessly turns on his heel and walks the gently caress away.

fractalairduct
Sep 26, 2015

I, Giorno Giovanna, have a dream!



tsob posted:

That said, I just watched an interesting FATWS video positing that the show has been re-written following the Coronavirus becoming such a major issue. The main thrust of the theory being that there seems to be some ADR going on with people speaking off screen about tuberculosis, but never actually speaking those lines on screen along with the vagueness of what kind of resources the Flagsmashers are going after and some early reports (like this) from roughly Feb 2020 about the show originally having had a plot beat about a pandemic that was being re-written because it was too globally sensitive an issue.

None of it is confirmed of course, but the idea seems plausible. The fact the Flagsmashers are stealing supplies but we're never really told what kind of supplies, that Mama Donya died of Tuberculosis, which has a known cure, that we're never really told what the Flagsmashers miss about the world pre-Blip beyond something vague about lack of borders and that America is so gung-ho about finding the Flagsmashers gave the guy the idea that maybe what was originally set to happen was that after the snap some kind of virus breaks out, but because the world is so disorganized that once a cure was found that pretty much everyone was given it in equal measure; nation, class, race etc. weren't an issue, because the world was in such disarray. Then when the Blip happened, suddenly a load of people came back, rules started slotting into place, and the cure started being withheld from vulnerable communities in favour of with-holding for the rich. At which point America wanted to grab it's due of the cure, so when the Flagsmashers steal cures earmarked for America to give to refugee camps, Washington sics the new Captain America on them and both Bucky and Sam have a more plausible reason to want to find them so badly; since without knowing the full story about virus equity etc. they just think they're stealing something that everyone needs to give to their own.

You covered it pretty well, but here's the video in question.

stev
Jan 22, 2013

Please be excited.





Timby posted:

Yeah, Whedon essentially had a blank check to do whatever he wanted with Age of Ultron after The Avengers made more money than God.

Then he wrote a script for Ultron that was like four and a half hours long, shot the entire loving thing, and then got pissed off at Disney when they told him he had to cut it down to a manageable runtime, ultimately quitting working with Marvel Studios because he was angry at them for making him edit his masterpiece down to two and a half hours and the movie being generally disliked by audiences and critics.

He must have been pissed when he found out that Avengers 3 was essentially a two parter that ran for 5 and a half hours.

AoU was released when two parter films were still all the rage. I'm surprised he didn't try to push that option.

cyclical
Nov 26, 2005
No, not that one.

seaborgium posted:

There is apparently more footage of Zemo dancing though, along with reactions from Bucky and Sam that didn't make it into the episode. That I would love to see as a deleted scene somewhere on Disney+.

I want all the deleted scenes in addition to like an hour-long blooper reel. I refuse to believe it doesn't exist.

Jet Jaguar posted:

When they were doing Winter Soldier press tours, somebody asked him what comics he read as a kid and the answer was, "None, because I was a communist."

Holy poo poo

tsob
Sep 26, 2006

Chalalala~


fractalairduct posted:

You covered it pretty well, but here's the video in question.

Yeah, that's the one. I didn't think it'd be available outside Patreon for a few days or I'd just have linked it. Thanks for doing it for me. His stuff in general is good, but that seems like a solid theory of what could have been, and what is undermining an otherwise strong show.

live with fruit
Aug 15, 2010


That guy mischaracterizes the Flag Smashers' motivation. It's not that they thought things were better during the blip, I'm pretty sure the source for that reading is Sam's dumb partner, it's that they were displaced to make room for returners.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

Watching you sleep.

Butt first, let's
check the feeds.



The Flag Smashers have expressed the "better during the blip" thing once or twice. In her pep talk Karli tells the group that they had a taste of the way it can be and they're not giving that up.

live with fruit
Aug 15, 2010


Presumably they weren't living in safe houses and refugee camps during the blip.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

Watching you sleep.

Butt first, let's
check the feeds.



Presumably. But they've very much used the language of "it was better during the blip." We just haven't gotten any clear depth on their agenda or views to figure out what that means so its a lot of assumption and projection.

live with fruit
Aug 15, 2010


STAC Goat posted:

Presumably. But they've very much used the language of "it was better during the blip." We just haven't gotten any clear depth on their agenda or views to figure out what that means so its a lot of assumption and projection.

I guess I just think it's funny that a guy whose job is writing fan fiction needs things so spelled out for them. Their whole mission as far as we've seen is attacking the GRC, which is all concerned about repatriating people who were snapped. It's not like they're searching for the stones so they can get rid of everyone so they can get more leg room.

tsob
Sep 26, 2006

Chalalala~


live with fruit posted:

I guess I just think it's funny that a guy whose job is writing fan fiction needs things so spelled out for them. Their whole mission as far as we've seen is attacking the GRC, which is all concerned about repatriating people who were snapped. It's not like they're searching for the stones so they can get rid of everyone so they can get more leg room.

Their whole mission isn't attacking the GRC though. Doing so is only ever presented as a means to an end, because the GRC are the ones with whatever resources they need. The first time we see them they're not even doing anything to a GRC depot so far as we know; it's just stealing money from a bank. Karli's turn to directly attacking the GRC in the lates episode is presented as an aberration. Karli also mentions that during the interim 5 years before the Blip that she had wound up living in Madripoor, so she probably isn't bitter over having had better living conditions during that time.

tsob fucked around with this message at 10:30 on Apr 7, 2021

live with fruit
Aug 15, 2010


tsob posted:

Their whole mission isn't attacking the GRC though. Doing so is only ever presented as a means to an end, because the GRC are the ones with whatever resources they need. The first time we see them they're not even doing anything to a GRC depot so far as we know; it's just stealing money from a bank. Karli's turn to directly attacking the GRC in the lates episode is presented as an aberration. Karli also mentions that during the interim 5 years before the Blip that she had wound up living in Madripoor, so she probably isn't bitter over having had better living conditions during that time.

Even better then. They're stealing resources to distribute to others, namely those who were displaced. They're not taking steps to return to the snapped times, they're dealing with the effects of Hulk's snap.

Thundercracker
Jun 25, 2004

Proudly serving the Ruinous Powers since as a veteran of the long war.


College Slice

fractalairduct posted:

You covered it pretty well, but here's the video in question.

I actually like it better that it's TB rather than a sci fi virus. Gives it an extra bit of gently caress you to the refugees that the GRC won't give a widely known and cheap cure to them. If it was a sci fi virus there would be all kinds of debates about if it's ethical to withhold because it's new and in limited quantities instead of a cure that has its patent expired for a long time.

Boxman
Sep 27, 2004

Big fan of




STAC Goat posted:

Presumably. But they've very much used the language of "it was better during the blip." We just haven't gotten any clear depth on their agenda or views to figure out what that means so its a lot of assumption and projection.

The bigger disconnect, I think, is the fact that they're called the "flag smashers." We're told that they want to dissolve borders but there's even less of a demonstration of that ideal than "back to during the blip." The best way to get there is to invent some Watchmen-like story where the blip made all the world governments play nice with each other, but they seem to be working together just fine now, what with the Global Repatriation Council.

It reads a little bit like Zemo's mask does, where they did it just because the comics have it, but it doesn't really make sense here.

Open Source Idiom
Jan 4, 2013


Boxman posted:

The best way to get there is to invent some Watchmen-like story where the blip made all the world governments play nice with each other,

I don't think I quite understand what you mean with the Watchmen comparison.

stev
Jan 22, 2013

Please be excited.





Open Source Idiom posted:

I don't think I quite understand what you mean with the Watchmen comparison.

Presumably the idea that the squid would result in global cooperation (even if the plan was clearly doomed to fail).

Thundercracker
Jun 25, 2004

Proudly serving the Ruinous Powers since as a veteran of the long war.


College Slice

stev posted:

Presumably the idea that the squid would result in global cooperation (even if the plan was clearly doomed to fail).

LoL. His plan would've been blown up immediately by Donald Trump if the squid made him look bad. Hell, since it took out New York Trump might even say the squid is actually very good and very strong.

live with fruit
Aug 15, 2010


Boxman posted:

The bigger disconnect, I think, is the fact that they're called the "flag smashers." We're told that they want to dissolve borders but there's even less of a demonstration of that ideal than "back to during the blip." The best way to get there is to invent some Watchmen-like story where the blip made all the world governments play nice with each other, but they seem to be working together just fine now, what with the Global Repatriation Council.

It reads a little bit like Zemo's mask does, where they did it just because the comics have it, but it doesn't really make sense here.

The name doesn't make sense but they seem to be going somewhere with the logo with the hamsa the dead mentor/mother had. She's probably the key to everything, given the response her death created and that we know nothing about her.

Bust Rodd
Oct 21, 2008

In Rodd we Bust





One of the many reasons the HBO series was so loving awesome was because of how it correctly portrayed the post squid world as being hyper militarized and terrifying as a result, more or less the opposite of Ozzy’s plan

The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."


There’s something here that furthers my ‘Sharon is working with the Flagsmashers and is also the Power Broker’ theory.

Nagel states that Karli stole the 20 vials of serum he produced. She then later called him up, asking him to help Donya Madani. ‘Hey, you know that stuff I stole from you? Do you have any more because I really need to help my friend.’ How many thieves get back in touch with the people they’ve stolen from? Especially with something so incredibly rare and valuable. We’re definitely not being told the whole story here. I think the theft is a cover story that the power broker told Nagel to tell anyone who asked, so as to cover the PB/FS connections.

Sharon knew where Nagel was all the time, she had a private car waiting nearby for when the fighting was over, and she’s the one who contacted Karli to tell her about Nagel’s death.

live with fruit
Aug 15, 2010


If the Power Broker is working with the Flag Smashers, why chase them down and kill one of them at the airfield?

Sir DonkeyPunch
Mar 23, 2007

I didn't hear no bell


https://i.imgur.com/ZNF9QDF.gifv

The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."



#ReleaseTheZemoDanceCut

Bust Rodd
Oct 21, 2008

In Rodd we Bust





Ok this is driving my totally insane, can someone just do a slightly tighter GIF so that it's just Zemo pumping his fist to the music without the first half a second of him sliding into place, so that it's just a seamless DerFonkyBeetz gif?

thrawn527
Mar 27, 2004

Thrawn/Pellaeon
Studying the art of terrorists
To keep you safe

fractalairduct posted:

You covered it pretty well, but here's the video in question.

Thanks for posting this. I'm deep diving into this guy's videos now. I like him.

tsob
Sep 26, 2006

Chalalala~


thrawn527 posted:

Thanks for posting this. I'm deep diving into this guy's videos now. I like him.

If you do want to hear a bit more of him then he does a weekly podcast where he and two buddies review a single film (with maybe some industry news or whatever thrown in), usually a big budget blockbuster thing and discuss all the silliness in the film and how some things don't line up the way they ideally should called Mostly Nitpicking. The reviews don't really rate the film on whether there's minor niggles in consistency or anything; it's just them having fun at the expense of whatever movie by discussing it through that lens and they often end up liking movies regardless of any nitpicks. The runtime has ballooned since the third host joined a year or more back though, and while they used to be maybe an hour or 90 minutes in most instances, they've started hitting 3 hours+ a lot now as they quibble and go on tangents. I don't mind personally, since I like the 3 hosts and their chemistry, so it helps me pass time on walks or when doing mindless stuff, but I can definitely see that being off-putting for some people.

tsob fucked around with this message at 16:58 on Apr 7, 2021

Unkempt
May 24, 2003

Sexual Air Supply





Neither of those ladies look very happy to be there.

tsob
Sep 26, 2006

Chalalala~


Zemo isn't exactly the picture of ecstasy either.

zoux
Apr 28, 2006



Anyone else feel like the characterization of Zemo in Civil War is completely different from the one in FatWS? I wouldn't say that's categorically a bad thing but the last we saw of the dancin' dude he was trying to blow his brains out after completing his nihilistic master plan.

thrawn527
Mar 27, 2004

Thrawn/Pellaeon
Studying the art of terrorists
To keep you safe

zoux posted:

Anyone else feel like the characterization of Zemo in Civil War is completely different from the one in FatWS? I wouldn't say that's categorically a bad thing but the last we saw of the dancin' dude he was trying to blow his brains out after completing his nihilistic master plan.

Solitary confinement can change a man. In Zemo's case, it made him realize just how much he missed house music.

Edmund Lava
Sep 8, 2004

Hey, I'm from Brooklyn. I'm going to call myself Mr. Friendly.



zoux posted:

Anyone else feel like the characterization of Zemo in Civil War is completely different from the one in FatWS? I wouldn't say that's categorically a bad thing but the last we saw of the dancin' dude he was trying to blow his brains out after completing his nihilistic master plan.

It is and I’m fine with it. It’s fun for now, and if they want the options to do Thunderbolts anytime soon, they want Zeno to be a little endearing.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

Watching you sleep.

Butt first, let's
check the feeds.



Its definitely a bit of a shock going from him from the grieve stricken guy on a suicide run to the super spy baron. But it has been 2-7 years so that's time for your mindset to change. The baron thing is still a little odd because I think his story was his family went to his father in law's place for safety or something? And you'd think the rich guy would have a safer place? But its a comic book and this version has more potential so... I'll allow it.

The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."


Do we know if Zemo was snapped or not?

stev
Jan 22, 2013

Please be excited.





I wonder how the prison system dealt with the snap. Do they just say linear time is passing so that five years counts as part of someone's sentence if they were gone for that time? Or do they add another five years to avoid people 'getting out' of their years behind bars? Is someone who was sentenced to five years the day before they were snapped released having not actually served a day of their sentence?

Legally I suppose that time would have to count but I can't imagine for profit prisons taking that lying down, since 50% of their prison population didn't exist for half a decade.

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Rockstar Massacre
Mar 2, 2009

i only have a crazy life
because i make risky decisions
from a position of
unreasonable self-confidence


zoux posted:

Anyone else feel like the characterization of Zemo in Civil War is completely different from the one in FatWS? I wouldn't say that's categorically a bad thing but the last we saw of the dancin' dude he was trying to blow his brains out after completing his nihilistic master plan.

The defining elements of his life led him to an obsessive warpath which he successfully resolved and had lots of forced time to put behind him, a drastic change in demeanor makes sense enough.

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