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Boxman
Sep 27, 2004

Big fan of




Boris Galerkin posted:

Iím only finished with episode 2 but I really donít see how the flagsmashers are the bad guys here, unless the idea of ďone world one peopleĒ is suppose to be bad.

They're the "bad guys" in that they're set against our heroes, but it's not really because of what they're doing. Sam didn't care about the bank robbery until a powered guy showed up, and they only really cared after they figured out the Flagsmashers had access to the super soldier serum. Similarly, the antagonistic relationship they have with Walker has nothing to do with his work as a jackbooted thug with the GRC, just that he's doing it with a part of Steve's legacy.

The "one world one people" thing is also weird because nothing they do at any point is in support of that, including opposing the Global Repatriation Council. I mentioned it earlier, but the name/creed feels like its just from the comics for the sake of being from the comics, rather than being a part of the story.

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Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009


Antagonist ≠ "Bad guy"

and

Protagonist ≠ "Good Guy"

Walter White, Don Draper, and Adolph Hitler in Downfall are not "good guys," but they are protagonists.

The Walrus
Jul 9, 2002




Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

Antagonist ≠ "Bad guy"

and

Protagonist ≠ "Good Guy"

Walter White, Don Draper, and Adolph Hitler in Downfall are not "good guys," but they are protagonists.

I think Hitler is the 'subject' not the protagonist imo

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

Watching you sleep.

Butt first, let's
check the feeds.



Narratively the oddest part of the show is probably that there isn't a simple antagonist. And yeah, "antagonist" doesn't mean "bad guy", it means "the guy causing the problems for the protagonist." But Sam and Bucky's problems are kind of all over the map. The antagonist is like the sobering reality of the world and consequence of actions and the disillusionment of idealism or something. And that's probably the antagonist for Walker and the Flag Smashers too. They all think they're the protagonists of their own story and they're all being roadblocked by their own failings and frustrations.

Maybe the Power Broker or Zemo will emerge. But WandaVision never really had a natural protagonist/antagonist give and take either as Wanda was basically both. So the end enemy in this might just be that everyone's flawed and loving up.

Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009


STAC Goat posted:

Narratively the oddest part of the show is probably that there isn't a simple antagonist. And yeah, "antagonist" doesn't mean "bad guy", it means "the guy causing the problems for the protagonist." But Sam and Bucky's problems are kind of all over the map. The antagonist is like the sobering reality of the world and consequence of actions and the disillusionment of idealism or something. And that's probably the antagonist for Walker and the Flag Smashers too. They all think they're the protagonists of their own story and they're all being roadblocked by their own failings and frustrations.

Maybe the Power Broker or Zemo will emerge. But WandaVision never really had a natural protagonist/antagonist give and take either as Wanda was basically both. So the end enemy in this might just be that everyone's flawed and loving up.

The real protagonists were the friends we made along the way.

Alchenar
Apr 9, 2008



Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

The real protagonists were the friends we made along the way.

The true meaning of protagonism was inside you all along!

live with fruit
Aug 15, 2010


Oasx posted:

They stole medicine, tried to kill Sam and Bucky, and they think the world was better off when half the population was dead. At the very least they are callous and cruel, and that is besides everything we donít know about them yet.

They stole medicine to give to people. It's not like they're trying to sell it on the black market, as far as we know.

Kaedric
Sep 5, 2000



Oasx posted:

They stole medicine, tried to kill Sam and Bucky, and they think the world was better off when half the population was dead. At the very least they are callous and cruel, and that is besides everything we donít know about them yet.

This is some pretty wild spin.

They appropriated medicine being held in storage (for what reason, to increase its value? to sit gathering dust? who can say), defended themselves after they were in danger of being caught doing so, and think the world was better off when resources were more fairly distributed and nations were coming together in solidarity.

You're making it sound like they want half the world to die again when their explicitly stated problem is that the 'people in charge' reverted back to the ones who made the world the neoliberal hellhole we all currently live in before the snap.

gyrobot
Nov 16, 2011


Kaedric posted:

This is some pretty wild spin.

They appropriated medicine being held in storage (for what reason, to increase its value? to sit gathering dust? who can say), defended themselves after they were in danger of being caught doing so, and think the world was better off when resources were more fairly distributed and nations were coming together in solidarity.

You're making it sound like they want half the world to die again when their explicitly stated problem is that the 'people in charge' reverted back to the ones who made the world the neoliberal hellhole we all currently live in before the snap.

Or the people in power didn't had the means to tell them what to do and they chose to finally rise up and abolish the nation state that kept them down. Given what happened in real life where instead of standing together, the powers decided to go every man for themselves and hiding the truth of treating the unblipped as nothing more than living sacrifices to help maintain a life of diminished comfort and pass laws to quash civil liberties.

Desperado Bones
Aug 29, 2009

Cute, adorable, and creepy at the same time!






Kaedric posted:

This is some pretty wild spin.

They appropriated medicine being held in storage (for what reason, to increase its value? to sit gathering dust? who can say),

As someone who lives in corrupt land and has seen poo poo like this happen several times is either for re-selling or political reasons: "Vote for Pedro have this food we took from the Red Cross storage", "All the supplies are gone! (no they are not, they are sitting on a storage) Send us money!" Sometimes the supplies are distributed only among rich people.

We have had several big floods with lots of displaced people and everytime it is discovered that a part of the donations are just gathering dust in a room.

So someone big in that post-blip organization IS corrupt as hell, or trying somehow to create a political career.

tsob
Sep 26, 2006

Chalalala~


Kaedric posted:

You're making it sound like they want half the world to die again when their explicitly stated problem is that the 'people in charge' reverted back to the ones who made the world the neoliberal hellhole we all currently live in before the snap.

Have they explicitly stated that? I thought they had only ever said they want things to go back to how they were during the blip, without specifying any details of what that meant.

Ror
Oct 21, 2010

Everything's purrfect!



what is flag smashing even, it's a floppy piece of cloth, how are you supposed to smash that

tsob
Sep 26, 2006

Chalalala~


Ror posted:

what is flag smashing even, it's a floppy piece of cloth, how are you supposed to smash that

I don't know, Karli did a pretty good job smashing up a flag in episode 2. Granted, someone was wearing it, but still...

twistedmentat
Nov 21, 2003

What's a war hero got to do to get some lubrication around here?



Its Rinaldo posted:

3am est friday. It's 4am est thursday morning. One more day still friendo

Oops, i've not worked in 3 weeks so I'm getting the "every day is the same" feeling.

It seems like only the Super Soldiers are making Sam and Bucky focus on the Flag Smashers.

Captain Oblivious
Oct 12, 2007

Right in the Kokoro



tsob posted:

Have they explicitly stated that? I thought they had only ever said they want things to go back to how they were during the blip, without specifying any details of what that meant.

Yes. It was in the very first scene of the Flagsmashers among themselves, in the flat the nice German man gave them for the night.

Oasx
Oct 11, 2006

Greetings from Asbury Park

Kaedric posted:

This is some pretty wild spin.

I'm not ruling out that the government is actually corrupt, and that the flag smashers are basically Robin Hood and redistributing wealth to the ones who need it.

But even before the event in episode 3 they were using a lot of ambiguous language. And I am mostly just leaning on the side of being proven that they are actually good guys, instead of the opposite.

Teek
Aug 7, 2006

I can't wait to entertain you.


More Zemo dancing footage: It's about an extra minute or so, just repeated out an hour.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nEzCv5u1O8

Teek fucked around with this message at 20:08 on Apr 8, 2021

Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009


Teek posted:

More Zemo dancing footage: It's about an extra minute or so, just repeated out an hour.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nEzCv5u1O8

That is amazing.

The official Marvel channel just released the unaired video of Zemo's dance and stitched it together into an hour-long cut.

Edit: Weird. Quoting someone before they edit their post, but posting after they edit automatically puts their edit into the quote? Is that new?

Everyone
Sep 6, 2019


Oasx posted:

I'm not ruling out that the government is actually corrupt, and that the flag smashers are basically Robin Hood and redistributing wealth to the ones who need it.

But even before the event in episode 3 they were using a lot of ambiguous language. And I am mostly just leaning on the side of being proven that they are actually good guys, instead of the opposite.

Well, figure the government is corrupt in the "one or two bad apples" sense so they can be punched.

Or, as Pearl puts it, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJWlWG_42kE

Teek
Aug 7, 2006

I can't wait to entertain you.


Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

Edit: Weird. Quoting someone before they edit their post, but posting after they edit automatically puts their edit into the quote? Is that new?

Desperado Bones
Aug 29, 2009

Cute, adorable, and creepy at the same time!






Teek posted:

More Zemo dancing footage: It's about an extra minute or so, just repeated out an hour.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nEzCv5u1O8

This is the content I love

Edit:

I tried to make a fun loop, and now can't stop laughing

Desperado Bones fucked around with this message at 20:43 on Apr 8, 2021

Sir DonkeyPunch
Mar 23, 2007

I didn't hear no bell


Teek posted:

More Zemo dancing footage: It's about an extra minute or so, just repeated out an hour.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nEzCv5u1O8

what a great day this is

Marsupial Ape
Dec 15, 2020

...big ol' thick pumpernickel...


twistedmentat posted:

Oops, i've not worked in 3 weeks so I'm getting the "every day is the same" feeling.

It seems like only the Super Soldiers are making Sam and Bucky focus on the Flag Smashers.

Same. Itís been a month for me. I am very close to taking a very steep cut in potential pay just to go back to work. This thread and Valheim are the only things keeping me going.

gyrobot
Nov 16, 2011


tsob posted:

Have they explicitly stated that? I thought they had only ever said they want things to go back to how they were during the blip, without specifying any details of what that meant.

We should get the reveal and it's gonna be some sob story about how the world continued to remain divided rather than getting their poo poo together while the poor and destitute remain so until she and others stole the serum and fought back

In It For The Tank
Feb 17, 2011

But I've yet to figure out a better way to spend my time.


Teek posted:

More Zemo dancing footage: It's about an extra minute or so, just repeated out an hour.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nEzCv5u1O8

It is a masterpiece. Complete. Comprehensive. It captures the white experience.

BlackIronHeart
Aug 1, 2004

The Oath Breaker's about to hit warphead nine Kaptain!


Desperado Bones posted:

I tried to make a fun loop, and now can't stop laughing



I actually made something similar the day the episode came out but realized it's just a loop of Zemo jacking off an air dick.

twistedmentat
Nov 21, 2003

What's a war hero got to do to get some lubrication around here?



Marsupial Ape posted:

Same. Itís been a month for me. I am very close to taking a very steep cut in potential pay just to go back to work. This thread and Valheim are the only things keeping me going.

The eliminated my position, so I have to look for a new job during a lockdown. Fun!

mind the walrus
Sep 22, 2006



Desperado Bones posted:

This is the content I love

Edit:

I tried to make a fun loop, and now can't stop laughing


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1OhKtRb990

The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."


Teek posted:

More Zemo dancing footage: It's about an extra minute or so, just repeated out an hour.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nEzCv5u1O8



This is amazing.

Everyone
Sep 6, 2019


tsob posted:

Also, in regards to the dancing:

So that shot of Bucky staring at something off-screen just before they leave the nightclub probably is him staring at Zemo.

Well, figure that since his time as the Winter Soldier, the longest time he's lived some place was in Wakanda - a nation full of people with rhythm and moves.

So Bucky was staring at Zemo trying to figure out if he was dancing or having some kind of seizure.

Thundercracker
Jun 25, 2004

Proudly serving the Ruinous Powers since as a veteran of the long war.


College Slice

Instead of a sky laser I hope the finale is a dance off.

thrawn527
Mar 27, 2004

Thrawn/Pellaeon
Studying the art of terrorists
To keep you safe

Teek posted:

More Zemo dancing footage: It's about an extra minute or so, just repeated out an hour.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nEzCv5u1O8

Came here to post this. Overjoyed to see I was beaten. So god drat good.

Everyone
Sep 6, 2019


Thundercracker posted:

Instead of a sky laser I hope the finale is a dance off.

Sam: We have a huge problem

Bucky: What now?

Sam: Apparently Karli was best friends with Michael Flatley's kid.

Marsupial Ape
Dec 15, 2020

...big ol' thick pumpernickel...


twistedmentat posted:

The eliminated my position, so I have to look for a new job during a lockdown. Fun!

I got passed over for a raise twice because my boss was having a bad day. I got sick of my future being contingent on his temper and home life and gave my two weeks. Six years of public service counts for gently caress all, I guess.

Anyway, just rewatched the latest episode. I noticed towards the end, Bucky was cleaning his robot had. You think he gets a lot of thug and mook skin stuck in the articulation? Chips of teeth?

Cage Kicker
Feb 20, 2009

End of the fiscal year, bitch.
MP's got time to order pens for year year, hooah?


SKILCRAFT KREW Reppin' Quality Blind Made





Lipstick Apathy

Marsupial Ape posted:

I got passed over for a raise twice because my boss was having a bad day. I got sick of my future being contingent on his temper and home life and gave my two weeks. Six years of public service counts for gently caress all, I guess.

Anyway, just rewatched the latest episode. I noticed towards the end, Bucky was cleaning his robot had. You think he gets a lot of thug and mook skin stuck in the articulation? Chips of teeth?

Come on, don't be naÔve. If you had a robot hand what would you use it for?

ClydeFrog
Apr 13, 2007

Jesus Suffering Fuck how can running for 3 minutes BE SO HARD.

Cage Kicker posted:

Come on, don't be naïve. If you had a robot hand what would you use it for?

Would you dare tho? Surely he's just one sneeze away from an accidental dickectomy!

Inspector 34
Mar 9, 2009
DOES NOT RESPECT THE RUN

BUT THEY WILL



All those interlocking metal pieces would give me pause as well, but I mean what are you gonna do?

twistedmentat
Nov 21, 2003

What's a war hero got to do to get some lubrication around here?



Literally the first thing Jonas Jr was going to do with it after Billy Quizboy made him his own robot arm.

Wow, Walker is an rear end in a top hat. Sam totally was getting through to her, but he has to be America and burst in making everything worse because they have to swing their dick in everything

Dexo
Aug 15, 2009

I been ballin' so damn hard I swear I think that I'm Coby


The Dora Milaje loving own

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Cage Kicker
Feb 20, 2009

End of the fiscal year, bitch.
MP's got time to order pens for year year, hooah?


SKILCRAFT KREW Reppin' Quality Blind Made





Lipstick Apathy

ClydeFrog posted:

Would you dare tho? Surely he's just one sneeze away from an accidental dickectomy!

Surely this is an issue for any super soldier...


Episode content: Holy gently caress

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