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Bar Ran Dun
Jan 21, 2006

When there were five in the bed and we all rolled over I said nothing, because I would not fall off.

Comrade Fakename posted:

So yeah, they could use some constitutional reform.

The other side of this is that the breaking of traditions and connections to origin with reason is a fundamental action of modernity and capitalism.

Iím not applying good or bad to this, it could be either in a given situation. But it is definitely what western enlightenment based thought does and it is to impose that on another fictional culture.

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Bleck
Jan 7, 2014




Ravel posted:

I didn't say the film was bad.

I'm talking about the post I referred to before

Kaedric posted:

The film portrays it as cool and actually good, as long as T'challa is the leader. In fact at the end of the film we're right back to where they started.

right back to where we started, except for the social and political integration of the Jabari, and T'Challa deciding to end Wakanda's centuries long stance of isolationism, etc.

I mean you could say "why didn't they just immediately abolish the monarchy and then create a new system of government from scratch?" but if we're criticizing the monarchy in the film because of real life, let me uh tell you a thing or two about governmental reform

live with fruit
Aug 15, 2010


Bleck posted:

this post and subsequent responses by the poster are not just saying "monarchies are not a good form of government in real life," which nobody disagrees with, but rather implying that the depiction of a fantastical monarchy is itself irresponsible and bad, a problem with the film, despite the text of the film explicitly criticizing the idea

I actually think Black Panther is a great movie. I also don't have a huge problem with the fact that Wakanda is a monarchy, in large part because I think the movie seemed to be pointing T'Challa in a direction where he would eventually dissolve the monarchy in a future film, but that doesn't change the fact that criticism of it does exist out there in critical discussions.

Bleck
Jan 7, 2014




Bar Ran Dun posted:

But it is definitely what western enlightenment based thought does and it is to impose that on another fictional culture.

yeah a bunch of posters said the post about President Trump was "trolling" but, like,

I'm not American and I know Ravel is not American but I can't help but generally tend to assume that most of the posters going on about "monarchy bad" also live in a conservatively-oriented absolute plutocracy that's just barely holding itself together through current global events

monarchy is bad but if the followup is "and that's why we should Capitalism," then no sorry I don't care

Terror Sweat
Mar 15, 2009



Kaedric posted:

The film portrays it as cool and actually good, as long as T'challa is the leader. In fact at the end of the film we're right back to where they started.

So is the film still portraying the utopian futuristic society as bad? If not, I think it can be fairly criticized without whipping out the 'you're only saying that because the king is black' nonsense.

Sounds like the divine right of kings to me. Wakanda is a nation of gods, just like Asgard

BurritoJustice
Oct 9, 2012



Bleck posted:

yeah a bunch of posters said the post about President Trump was "trolling" but, like,

I'm not American and I know Ravel is not American but I can't help but generally tend to assume that most of the posters going on about "monarchy bad" also live in a conservatively-oriented absolute plutocracy that's just barely holding itself together through current global events

monarchy is bad but if the followup is "and that's why we should Capitalism," then no sorry I don't care

Black Panther: Wakanda Forever will be about the political turmoil involved with moving the country to post-scarcity luxury gay space communism.

Bust Rodd
Oct 21, 2008

In Rodd we Bust





I think Black Panther is a pretty good movie with hands down the worst action in the MCU

Ravel
Dec 23, 2009

There's no story


They can take inspiration from Coates and do a story about the transition to something more representative. That story still runs into accusations of whether the imposition of transitional institutions from western political philosophy is inherently colonial, but it's more ambitious and less critical of Black radicalism than anything they did in the original.

achillesforever6
Apr 23, 2012

psst you wanna do a communism?


Bleck posted:

yeah a bunch of posters said the post about President Trump was "trolling" but, like,

I'm not American and I know Ravel is not American but I can't help but generally tend to assume that most of the posters going on about "monarchy bad" also live in a conservatively-oriented absolute plutocracy that's just barely holding itself together through current global events

monarchy is bad but if the followup is "and that's why we should Capitalism," then no sorry I don't care
There is certainly a lack of imagination when it comes to developing Utopian societies in the MCU, but I get it since like someone brought up monarchies just make the job easier of creating drama and all that. But superhero media by it's nature is just kind of reactionary over revolutionary; and plus being owned by giant corporations isn't going to help matters in "rocking the boat". There are of course exceptions like Red Son, etc. I'm not going say they are fash state propaganda though; they do reflect a lot of the cultural zeitgeist of the time though.

Casnorf
Jun 14, 2002

Never drive a car when you're a fish

everything is propaganda!

nothing is propaganda!

if you cant see the inherent hypocrisy of advocating against case-by-case critical thinking in all information then im not really sure what more to say

cant wait for a new show so we can be distracted for even a fleeting moment from the overwhelming troubles of the real and consider merely the whelming troubles of the imagined

Cage Kicker
Feb 20, 2009

End of the fiscal year, bitch.
MP's got time to order pens for year year, hooah?


SKILCRAFT KREW Reppin' Quality Blind Made





Lipstick Apathy

The wakandans are all heavily armed and presumably ruled by consent so if they decide they want to keep their traditional method of electing a leader then it's p racist imo to criticize that

a Loving Dog
May 12, 2001


I would like to see an evil Tony Stark type character (a malevolent billionaire who funds villains) built up in the universe. Obvious choice is Justin Hammer which would rule but also they could go Norman Osborne route with Oscorp. I donít know who runs AIM in the comics but thatís another route.

Seems like the good guys have had basically unlimited funding so far which is kinda lame

Azhais
Feb 5, 2007


Switchblade Switcharoo

a Loving Dog posted:

Seems like the good guys have had basically unlimited funding so far which is kinda lame

*Looks at thread title dubiously*

Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009


a Loving Dog posted:

I would like to see an evil Tony Stark type character (a malevolent billionaire who funds villains) built up in the universe. Obvious choice is Justin Hammer which would rule but also they could go Norman Osborne route with Oscorp. I donít know who runs AIM in the comics but thatís another route.

Seems like the good guys have had basically unlimited funding so far which is kinda lame

Ultron was a billionaire.

Its Rinaldo
Aug 13, 2010

TRUBES BINCH


Bring back Ultron need more malevolent James Spader make him Sharonís evil Jarvis

Ravel
Dec 23, 2009

There's no story


Zemo is a baron

Azhais
Feb 5, 2007


Switchblade Switcharoo

There's always Doom

Doctor Nutt
Apr 12, 2007

"Even now, Elisabeth is putting her miraculous new body through its paces." -Clovis Bray




Azhais posted:

There's always Doom

Sadly Karl Urban's character was killed in Thor: Ragnarok

a Loving Dog
May 12, 2001


Azhais posted:

*Looks at thread title dubiously*

I mean yeah but even that they only touched on for like 2 minutes in one episode of a 6 hour series

radmonger
Jun 6, 2011


Doctor Nutt posted:

Sadly Karl Urban's character was killed in Thor: Ragnarok

I think, by various 90ís crossovers, Dredd actually counts as part of Marvel continuity.

Sentinel Red
Nov 13, 2007
Style > Content.

radmonger posted:

I think, by various 90ís crossovers, Dredd actually counts as part of Marvel continuity.

An Alien infestation of Mega City One is 2000 AD canon (he even had a chestburster removed), and pretty sure he's had bother with a Predator once or twice too. Don't think there's ever been an explicit Marvel hero crossover though, just ones with Batman.

Marsupial Ape
Dec 15, 2020

...big ol' thick pumpernickel...


Azhais posted:

There's always Doom

There is only Doom.

Terror Sweat
Mar 15, 2009



radmonger posted:

I think, by various 90’s crossovers, Dredd actually counts as part of Marvel continuity.

Dredd crossed over with batman, and batman crossed over with multiple marvel comics

Azhais
Feb 5, 2007


Switchblade Switcharoo

Terror Sweat posted:

Dredd crossed over with batman, and batman crossed over with multiple marvel comics

There's also Batman/Rorschach. Time for Dr Manhattan vs Galactus

But what we really need is a cinematic adaptation of Batman vs Elmer Fudd

Azhais fucked around with this message at 19:54 on May 4, 2021

Lammasu
May 8, 2019

lawful Good Monster


Wasn't their a comic where Deadpool did a DNA test and learned he had Wakandan ancestry and somehow managed to become king through that?

TinTower
Apr 21, 2010

You don't have to 8e a good person to 8e a hero.


radmonger posted:

I think, by various 90ís crossovers, Dredd actually counts as part of Marvel continuity.

Is this the same logic that means that WrestleMania takes place in the imagination of an autistic teenager?

Zil
Jun 4, 2011

I kind of want it.
Good Enough!




I mean it doesn't matter, this is all a simulation on a super computer anyways.

Casnorf
Jun 14, 2002

Never drive a car when you're a fish

not really all that super

The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."


Loki starts Wednesday June 9th! Two days earlier!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNyLzc3MU_E

AngryBooch
Sep 26, 2009


That's good, Wednesdays are TV nights IMO.

The Saddest Rhino
Apr 29, 2009

I could hear the roots of loneliness creeping through me when the world was hushed at four o'clock in the morning






https://twitter.com/scifichick25/status/1389761269121490945

https://twitter.com/unclegrambo/status/1390072696801742848

Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009


I kind of want to see the alternative world where the runner ups all got cast in the MCU and John Krasinski is Captain America, Shia LaBeouf is Loki, Joel Kinnaman is Thor, Joaquin Phoenix is Doctor Strange, Amanda Seyfried is Gamora, Saoirse Ronan is Scarlet Witch, Jessica Chastain is the Wasp, and Danny Devito or Jim Carrey are voicing Rocket.

The X-man cometh
Nov 1, 2009


Only if Groot is still played by Vin Diesel.

Terror Sweat
Mar 15, 2009




He's right, they did roll the dice on nonames, and it landed

Lord_Magmar
Feb 24, 2015

"Welcome to pound town, Slifer slacker!"




Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

I kind of want to see the alternative world where the runner ups all got cast in the MCU and John Krasinski is Captain America, Shia LaBeouf is Loki, Joel Kinnaman is Thor, Joaquin Phoenix is Doctor Strange, Amanda Seyfried is Gamora, Saoirse Ronan is Scarlet Witch, Jessica Chastain is the Wasp, and Danny Devito or Jim Carrey are voicing Rocket.

Well theyíd be re-casting or have already re-cast Loki by this point.

Marsupial Ape
Dec 15, 2020

...big ol' thick pumpernickel...


Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

I kind of want to see the alternative world where the runner ups all got cast in the MCU and John Krasinski is Captain America, Shia LaBeouf is Loki, Joel Kinnaman is Thor, Joaquin Phoenix is Doctor Strange, Amanda Seyfried is Gamora, Saoirse Ronan is Scarlet Witch, Jessica Chastain is the Wasp, and Danny Devito or Jim Carrey are voicing Rocket.

poo poo. gently caress. Thatís it: Joel Kinnaman as Dr. Doom. Now, I can finally sleep.

Big Mean Jerk
Jan 27, 2009

Well, of course I know him.
He's me.


Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

I kind of want to see the alternative world where the runner ups all got cast in the MCU and John Krasinski is Captain America, Shia LaBeouf is Loki, Joel Kinnaman is Thor, Joaquin Phoenix is Doctor Strange, Amanda Seyfried is Gamora, Saoirse Ronan is Scarlet Witch, Jessica Chastain is the Wasp, and Danny Devito or Jim Carrey are voicing Rocket.

The only ones here Iíd like to see are Phoenix as Strange and DeVito as Rocket, and even then Iím not convinced theyíd be upgrades. Marvelís had a nearly perfect combination of luck and skill when it comes to casting.

The only outright miscastings I can think of offhand are Christopher Eccleston because they buried him in prosthetics, Renner because heís so drat boring and generic, and Mads because he was largely wasted. Cheadle and Ruffalo have been definite upgrades over Howard and Norton, respectively, but itís not as if the latter were bad per se or miscast in their debut films.

Lunatic Sledge
Jun 8, 2013

choose your own horror isekai sci-fi Souls-like urban fantasy gamer simulator adventure

or don't?


If we're counting "the casting was too good for the role" as miscasts, I feel like they could have done better with Karl Urban. Maybe not way better, but better.

he's good enough at disappearing in a role that they might not be opposed to using him twice, though, just slap a wig or some goggles on him and act like he bears no resemblance to Executioner

e: and bring back Justin Hammer

ShakeZula
Jun 17, 2003

Nobody move and nobody gets hurt.



In all my years I've only ever seen one illustration showing Reed Richards with a beard, yet it is that picture that all the Twitter folk choose to use for their "dream casting" posts.

Although now I'm wondering, can Reed stretch his hair and beard the same way as the rest of himself?

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Geo Fixer
Jan 10, 2012

"Freedom lies in being bold."
-Robert Frost


Big Mean Jerk posted:

The only ones here Iíd like to see are Phoenix as Strange and DeVito as Rocket, and even then Iím not convinced theyíd be upgrades. Marvelís had a nearly perfect combination of luck and skill when it comes to casting.

The only outright miscastings I can think of offhand are Christopher Eccleston because they buried him in prosthetics, Renner because heís so drat boring and generic, and Mads because he was largely wasted. Cheadle and Ruffalo have been definite upgrades over Howard and Norton, respectively, but itís not as if the latter were bad per se or miscast in their debut films.

Phoenix as strange would have probably saved us from that god awful joker movie.

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