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So is the Hulk dead? Or is he trapped inside of Banner somewhere, presumably stewing in amger?
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Aug 18, 2022 18:00
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live with fruit posted:So is the Hulk dead? Or is he trapped inside of Banner somewhere, presumably stewing in amger? I thought the whole thing was that he reconciled the two sides of himself. I know there's a lot of 'me and the other guy' type dialogue but I don't think the hulk is supposed to literally be a separate dude.
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Aug 18, 2022 18:14
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The Grumbles posted:I thought the whole thing was that he reconciled the two sides of himself. I know there's a lot of 'me and the other guy' type dialogue but I don't think the hulk is supposed to literally be a separate dude. Both Hulk and Banner referred to the other as a separate person, and there's no real trace of original Hulk in Smart Hulk's personality.
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Aug 18, 2022 18:19
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live with fruit posted:So is the Hulk dead? Or is he trapped inside of Banner somewhere, presumably stewing in amger? The so called "Hulk" never existed. It was just a mental construct Bruce used to let out his anger and shirk any responsibilities for his actions. But now his cousin can just controll herself without causing billions in property damages and people start to realize that he was acting all along. That's why he wants to insulate her from the world!
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Aug 18, 2022 18:21
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The Grumbles posted:I thought the whole thing was that he reconciled the two sides of himself. I know there's a lot of 'me and the other guy' type dialogue but I don't think the hulk is supposed to literally be a separate dude. I know the MCU and the Comics are often quite different from each other, but in the comics Banner basically has DID and Hulk is an alter, as are the weird outliers like Grey Hulk or Professor Hulk.
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Aug 18, 2022 18:23
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TheBigBudgetSequel posted:I know the MCU and the Comics are often quite different from each other, but in the comics Banner basically has DID and Hulk is an alter, as are the weird outliers like Grey Hulk or Professor Hulk. If the Hulk is Bruce's Steven, that creates the same issue.
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Aug 18, 2022 18:29
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TheBigBudgetSequel posted:I know the MCU and the Comics are often quite different from each other, but in the comics Banner basically has DID and Hulk is an alter, as are the weird outliers like Grey Hulk or Professor Hulk. wanna see a hulk movie in the style of Moonknight episode 1
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Aug 18, 2022 18:33
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Fun first episode, and beyond the things everyone else has noted I'll just say that I loved the credits. Not the "Captain America Fuuuu..." mid-credit, but the actual credits. The song and the visual were great, and I loved the various images of Jen acclimating to her life as She-Hulk. The last one of Jen standing on the steps of a court house with She-Hulk's shadow imposed on the walls is especially evocative of the show as a whole. Or what it wants to be, I guess.A.o.D. posted:I was struck by how ANGRY Bruce/Hulk was. Yeah, he has a semblance of control, but I'm pretty sure they're setting something up later with this. Yeah, I'm assuming that the show is going to have Jen realize that she can't just not be She-Hulk ever, and go about her life as normal the way she wanted and will instead take up Bruce's offer that "his door is always open" and do a bit more training with him to control her emotions and/or power a bit better at some point. Possibly in a second season, if the premier was originally the 8th episode of the first season. It definitely looks like the premiere is setting Bruce up as needing to work on himself more too, now that he's healed physically, and realizes he's been sequestering himself out of fear. I could be in a second season too, but I suppose it might just be setting up a new Hulk thread for a further project to pick up on though instead. I know Disney/Marvel can't do a solo Hulk film, but maybe it'll be the b-plot in another movie, the way Hulk's plot was in Thor: Ragnarok. The Grumbles posted:Even if they do stuff to pull in adults, MCU is in its heart of hearts 100% for kids, even your edgier moon knights or she hulks aren't really dealing with subject matter for grown-ups because grown-up subject matter is about accepting your limitations, processing grief, letting go, questioning things, whatever, you get the idea, but decidedly not about using your superpowers to save the world. Even classic pixar films are more 'for all ages' because every one of them navigated grown-up themes in a way that was accessible to all, but the MCU really, really doesn't do that, even when it's posturing like it does to draw in an older demographic. I think Moon Knight came closest, but it's still a bit too Disney squeaky clean. MCU fans always wanna justify how the thing they like, which is about two or more action figures crunching into one another, is actually for adults for xyz reasons, when it's honestly fine to admit it's fundamentally a childish thing but it's okay to enjoy it if you wanna. You are assuming that just because something is written for adults that it has to deal with mature themes or deal with it's themes in a more mature manner. Action movies that are quite childish in tone and/or depth have been a thing for decades now. At least as far back as the 80s. Just because Arnold Schwarzenegger's film catalog contains a lot of films where he's a giant man going around blowing poo poo up in pretty puerile manner doesn't mean films like Commando, True Lies or what have you were primarily designed for kids. Hence noting that power fantasies are not solely the purview of kids. Which is why a lot of comic books now are written with more of an adult audience in mind. Including the normal superhero ones by DC and Marvel that were originally written purely for kids, since adults are often the ones buying those comics in the first place after growing up reading them. Some films are just designed to be cheesy fun. For adults. Which is fine. Not every story has to make you think on the meaning of life or anything. I don't need to fool myself into thinking one particular brand or set of stories is really not designed for children, because I enjoy plenty of kids books, movies, TV shows etc. already. Honestly, if you think Pixar's films are made more "for all ages" than kids then I think you might be the one who needs to accept it, because Pixar have made it clear, repeatedly, that their audience is and always will be kids. Which includes putting in concepts that they know will challenge kids. The fact adults can enjoy them just speaks to their respect for the intelligence and maturity of kids, or what they can handle; rather than that Pixar are really trying to speak to everyone. The Marvel movies were designed primarily as films at the start, but as a way to push audiences into the comics too (which, again, are often written with adults in mind given who's buying them) as well as into various merchandize. A lot of which is quite expensive, and really only viable for adults with disposable income. That has definitely changed a bit over the years since Disney bought Marvel Studios, but even then, the tone hasn't changed a lot and while there's a lot more action figures and other merch aimed squared at kids now, the films themselves haven't really changed in tone or characterization since.
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Aug 18, 2022 18:35
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Hulk has been shunted to a parallel reality in the gammaverse where everything's the same but made for Hulks and everyone is a Hulk version of themselves Hulk am so glad he built watch that let him stay Hulk and not turn back into puny Banner
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Aug 18, 2022 18:36
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On-Set She Hulk Reference ...... Maliah Arrayah (6' 5¼") I guess they have stopped using the good o'le tennis ball on a stick for people to act towards. PROGRESS! Loved basically everything about this. Tatiana Maslany never disappoints. mcbexx fucked around with this message at 18:47 on Aug 18, 2022 |
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Aug 18, 2022 18:44
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live with fruit posted:So is the Hulk dead? Or is he trapped inside of Banner somewhere, presumably stewing in amger? I've yet to see all the episode I'm at right after the car accident, but I'd assume that we can take Bruce's statement in Endgame as the truth. Meanwhile, the device he built is because there are times when it's much easier to be a 5'8" normal looking white dude than a 9 foot? heavy green dude. For one thing, he can ride with Jen in her normal car.
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Aug 18, 2022 18:58
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The only thing I didn't like was the origin of her powers. The original story of Bruce having to give her a blood transfusion seems more plausible than what we got on the show. But it's a minor issue really.
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Aug 18, 2022 19:02
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Everyone posted:I've yet to see all the episode I'm at right after the car accident, but I'd assume that we can take Bruce's statement in Endgame as the truth. Meanwhile, the device he built is because there are times when it's much easier to be a 5'8" normal looking white dude than a 9 foot? heavy green dude. For one thing, he can ride with Jen in her normal car. I hadn't thought about it but with Tony dead, Stark Industries raided and Fury in space, Smart Hulk's travel options are basically just jumping where he has to go. Oasx posted:The only thing I didn't like was the origin of her powers. The original story of Bruce having to give her a blood transfusion seems more plausible than what we got on the show. But it's a minor issue really. Everything in this episode felt perfunctory, like they weren't really interested in doing an origin story but felt that they had to.
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Aug 18, 2022 19:06
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Oasx posted:The only thing I didn't like was the origin of her powers. The original story of Bruce having to give her a blood transfusion seems more plausible than what we got on the show. But it's a minor issue really. Definitely agree, maybe it was a tone thing since the comics’ origin was written when she was meant to be a “serious” character and wasn’t as humorous and light-hearted as later writers made her. It also changes the dynamic between Bruce and Jen because in the comics Bruce basically willingly inflicts his condition on her (granted she would have died without his actions), whereas in the show it’s played off as an accident that Bruce actively tries to prevent in the moment.
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Aug 18, 2022 19:16
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Xenomrph posted:Definitely agree, maybe it was a tone thing since the comics’ origin was written when she was meant to be a “serious” character and wasn’t as humorous and light-hearted as later writers made her. MCU Bruce would probably let her die before subjecting her to becoming a Hulk.
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Aug 18, 2022 19:17
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This was fun! I like that they've opened their hearts to slightly grottier humour than they usually do. Stuff like "Captain America fucks!" would never have made it into phases 1-3 even with the comedially timed edit.
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Aug 18, 2022 19:22
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The Grumbles posted:Even if they do stuff to pull in adults, MCU is in its heart of hearts 100% for kids, even your edgier moon knights or she hulks aren't really dealing with subject matter for grown-ups because grown-up subject matter is about accepting your limitations, processing grief, letting go, questioning things, whatever, you get the idea, but decidedly not about using your superpowers to save the world. Even classic pixar films are more 'for all ages' because every one of them navigated grown-up themes in a way that was accessible to all, but the MCU really, really doesn't do that, even when it's posturing like it does to draw in an older demographic. I think Moon Knight came closest, but it's still a bit too Disney squeaky clean. MCU fans always wanna justify how the thing they like, which is about two or more action figures crunching into one another, is actually for adults for xyz reasons, when it's honestly fine to admit it's fundamentally a childish thing but it's okay to enjoy it if you wanna. Seems like a limited arena for "grown ups" but you do you
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Aug 18, 2022 19:25
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This was great amazing performances and just excellent stuff. The show was so pissed about having to do an origin story that they went straight-to-camera "ugh you guys aren't going to be able to enjoy this fun lawyer show unless we do this so here you go" Now I just want awesome She-Hulk attorney hi-jinks. I want to dig deep into the legal ramifications of super heroes. I want a whole episode about whether you can try someone from a different multiverse in our criminal courts. I want to get into a 3-episode arc about how the legal system handled half of humanity coming back from the blip with regards to life insurance payouts. I want She-Hulk and Daredevil to never fight but get into an elaborate legal sidebar about whether witness testimony is "hearsay" if the witness could read the defendant's mind telepathically.
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Aug 18, 2022 19:42
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I thought that was Poundcakes rather than Titania, the whole wrestler getup. That was a lot of fun but I love them adding in how womens lives are basically a combination of a gauntlet of threatening behavior and needing to keep your self in check at all times just to be safe.
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Aug 18, 2022 20:00
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Oasx posted:The only thing I didn't like was the origin of her powers. The original story of Bruce having to give her a blood transfusion seems more plausible than what we got on the show. But it's a minor issue really. It’s MCU canon that Bruce knows his blood is lethal to people because of GAMMA RAYS, it’s surprising to him in this episode even that she survived the experience. Like, unless you accidentally just do his origin again for her, I’m not sure how she gets hulkified any other way that’s less convoluted than smart dude’s convenience tech does it on accident. e: the real twist will be that the thing that keeps them alive through it is the X gene and they’re mutants like Kamala.
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Aug 18, 2022 20:12
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"What is the responsibility of those with power? Do they merely have an obligation to refrain from the misuse of that power? Or do they have a duty to protect those without it?" The opening lines of the show -- along with Jen's claiming that this is a "Lawyer Show", and she won't be hulking-out in the courtroom ("Basically, I was right and Bruce was wrong, and I never have to be the Hulk") literally 70 seconds before she does exactly that -- makes clear that Walters is to some extent an unreliable narrator and that the show intends to focus on her coming to grips with her new situation. Which... no surprise there, I'm sure everyone was expecting that to be the case from the moment the show was announced. I bring this up because I've been reading and watching a bunch of reviews/recaps and without fail everyone seems to be accepting Jen's explanation of why she's able to control herself at face value. I'm paraphrasing this next part but essentially women are societally trained to control their emotions, and therefore better equipped than men (who are in contrast encouraged to be as emotional as they please) to handle their 'inner-hulks'. Does her explanation track for you? It doesn't for me -- her condemnation of mansplaining comes during her insistence that she understands being a Hulk (30-ish hours after her first transformation) better than Bruce, who's been at this for 15 years simply by virtue of being a woman. At best that rant is to my eyes deeply ironic, and I think I trust Gao enough to believe the irony is intentional... but maybe not? Thoughts?
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Aug 18, 2022 20:15
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I took it more that Bruce had a host of emotional issues that came out violently, where Jen was more centered.
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Aug 18, 2022 20:21
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Darth Brooks posted:I took it more that Bruce had a host of emotional issues that came out violently, where Jen was more centered. But that just means Bruce is a more interesting character and it's not his show.
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Aug 18, 2022 20:25
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It's like Bruce said in the first Avengers when he revealed how he managed to deal with the Hulk: "I'm always angry." He's a simmering pot, always on the edge but never spilling over. Jennifer had to learn the same thing before even becoming She-Hulk, so it's not really surprising she's better-adjusted.
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Aug 18, 2022 20:33
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I mean, in the comics the distinction was pretty clearly that Bruce was fighting against the Hulk, while Jen was embracing it from the get-go. Endgame's explanation of how Smart Hulk emerged aligns with that. But as of Episode 1 of the show Jen is clearly not cool with her situation, but she's still in control.Darth Brooks posted:I took it more that Bruce had a host of emotional issues that came out violently, where Jen was more centered. Makes perfect sense, but I read the exchange as being more gendered than that. That may be my own biases showing, but like I said, the reviewers and recappers seem to be reading it the same way. I tend to ramble, so let me rephrase my original question: A - Do you believe Jen thinks she's in control because she's a woman (I say yes) B - Do you believe the show thinks she's in control because she's a woman (I don't know)
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Aug 18, 2022 20:37
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Yakmouth posted:A - Do you believe Jen thinks she's in control because she's a woman (I say yes) She hulks out on those guys at the bar so I'm guessing the show doesn't actually think she's in control.
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Aug 18, 2022 20:41
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live with fruit posted:She hulks out on those guys at the bar so I'm guessing the show doesn't actually think she's in control. That's interesting -- I read that moment as intentional.
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Aug 18, 2022 20:43
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That was before she learned to control it though. She literally inflates herself like a balloon later on and then goes back immediately which makes Bruce go into shock.
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Aug 18, 2022 20:44
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One of the central gimmicks of She-Hulk as a character is that she can control her transformation (and chooses to stay as a Hulk relatively often). I get that it's is a little bit heavy-handed with the lean-in, #girlboss feminism, but I prefer that to the pretty lovely stereotype of the woman who can't control her emotions. They also go out of their way to say something about Jennifer's reaction to the gamma radiation was inherently different in a way that seems to go beyond "is woman" so eh, I'm fine with it.
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Aug 18, 2022 20:49
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Arist posted:I prefer that to the pretty lovely stereotype of the woman who can't control her emotions. *cough*WandaMaximoff*cough* Show's good.
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Aug 18, 2022 20:57
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Yakmouth posted:That's interesting -- I read that moment as intentional. I really doubt it was, because Jen seemed surprised to recall she had transformed when she's talking to Bruce in the lab, and also acts like her transformation there is different because she's still conscious. I think Jen has a better handle on her emotions, but that just because she can handle them doesn't mean she is actually at peace with them, or this new aspect of her life. The whole season seems to be about her accepting that she's a Hulk now, and integrating the two halves of herself (lawyer and Hulk) when she's firmly rejecting it throughout the pilot, only transforming as absolutely needed.
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Aug 18, 2022 20:59
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live with fruit posted:She hulks out on those guys at the bar so I'm guessing the show doesn't actually think she's in control. That occurs during a high-stress situation which she's still in the middle of processing. I don't think it's necessarily a reflective example of Jen's general emotional capacity
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Aug 18, 2022 21:22
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It's not really text but I see the split between how Jen and Bruce deal with being Hulk to be a lot like the generational gap in queer spaces, Bruce being the gen-x/geriatric millenial and Jen being the zoomer. Bruce isolated and closeted the Hulk for so much of his life, pretty much until the Snap when he was more or less 'out' as Hulk and made it easier for the next generation of 'Hulks' lol. Even her reaction to getting gamma contamination was like 'Ok, I'm a Hulk now, sooo...can I go live my life?' -- like, it's not really a big deal anymore! She's already 'out' to her paralegal friend in the first episode, and you can see in the trailers that people are a lot more accepting of She-Hulk than they were 14 years ago when Bruce became Hulk. So that's probably a lot of the reason why she never developed the 'Hulk alter' like Bruce did. I have a feeling if we ever get to Skaar or Amadeus Cho in the MCU then maybe this will become more text, but it's how I'm interpreting a lot of it.
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Aug 18, 2022 21:45
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Rarity posted:That occurs during a high-stress situation which she's still in the middle of processing. I don't think it's necessarily a reflective example of Jen's general emotional capacity It's not all she is but it directly contradicts what she says about herself for the rest of the episode. It also plays into how dismissive she is of all of Bruce's warnings.
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Aug 18, 2022 21:53
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It's a little too jokey and I know it's cliché to complain about the CGI but OOOOF.
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Aug 18, 2022 22:22
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StrugglingHoneybun posted:I will die on the hill of "some of those cgi shots were just TatMas in green face paint" cause they looked fine/really good and they weren't super important trailer worthy scenes. I didn't spot any scenes where it appeared to just be face paint, but I did note how little was changed in the transformation. Really feels like they just added a green layer of CGI gloop over her face without changing much. I think they really should be doing more of it with her in makeup if the only thing they're changing is skin color and size. Just do some forced perspective Lord of the Rings style for most close-up/medium shots and it would look way better. But Disney hates makeup because unions.
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Aug 18, 2022 22:27
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Lunatic Sledge posted:Hulk has been shunted to a parallel reality in the gammaverse where everything's the same but made for Hulks and everyone is a Hulk version of themselves Something interesting I liked was that everything in Bruce's beach house is built to Hulk scale. The entire lab is upscaled, the jeep is so big that Jen can barely drive it when she first gets in, his cocktail shaker and glasses seem to be appropriately scaled. Also the show leaning into Science Bros. We barely saw them actually get to be friends in the movies, when they were building a beach house with a tiki bar and getting drunk and poo poo-talking the Avengers together.
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Aug 18, 2022 22:58
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I think it's lame that Jen's hair changes to be more comic accurate, but that's because I think Tatiana Maslany's cute and I like her curly hair.
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Aug 18, 2022 23:28
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mcmagic posted:It's a little too jokey and I know it's cliché to complain about the CGI but OOOOF. I was honestly fully prepared to at best tolerate it, but I thought the CGI was absolutely fine. Honestly this one episode is probably the most impressive CGI in ANY show to date.
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Aug 18, 2022 23:31
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Jim the Nickel posted:I think it's lame that Jen's hair changes to be more comic accurate, but that's because I think Tatiana Maslany's cute and I like her curly hair. This is the worst part of the show imo.
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Aug 18, 2022 23:42
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