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tsob posted:Putting aside that Marvel are doing a Secret Invasion storyline where Skrulls are going to be the villains, so they didn't change their alignment, only that of some Skrulls, the fact they did it once would not mean it's common. I don't think anyone has said "it's impossible", only that it's unlikely, since there are plenty of pre-existing villains they could use if they wanted a villain and Marvel generally does keep characters roughly similar to their comic portrayal. It could be a schism between the Skrulls and the Chitauri. They went to great lengths to claim that the former weren't the villains in Avengers Assemble and it turned out to be the latter, even though the Chitauri are explicitly the same race. Also it would be hilarious if the MCU actually introduced the Skrull Beatles.
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Feb 25, 2021 10:18
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Maybe Agatha really is a small time witch-villain who had big plans with her book, and then along comes Miss Major Mojo, drawn to it, basically steam rolls over everything. So Agatha is A baddie, but not THE baddie in this.
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Feb 25, 2021 12:13
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Everyone posted:I stated it up-thread, but I don't have a problem with Agatha being "the villain." The real question for me is "Who is singing the Agatha All Along" song?
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Feb 25, 2021 13:19
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BurritoJustice posted:If you rewatch the trailers there is a scene of Wanda looking at a floating exploding/imploding soul stone so I think it's very likely the stones reforming will be a plot point. If anyone is curious: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBhlqe2OTt4&t=70s The first frame has a blue orb that shatters apart to reveal the mind stone (Loki's Scepter had a blue orb with mind stone in it), then there's a different shot of Wanda staring in wonder at a yellow cloud that then seems to explode. Could be a thing yeah.
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Feb 25, 2021 14:37
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Boxman posted:Also, Alexander Pierce, who I don't think ever turned heel in the comics. Comics Alexander Pierce was introduced in 1988 to be the sexy young long haired bad boy on Nick Fury's SHIELD team, who at that point were meant to all be either literal WWII vets or slightly younger folks who Fury recruited in the early days of the Cold War. He appears a few dozen times over the next five years and then sank into obscurity, appearing in zero comics between 1994 and 2009, and only popping back up in the 21st century for a minor role in Jonathan Hickman's sprawling Secret Warriors run. He hasn't been seen or mentioned since that series wrapped a decade ago. MCU Alexander Pierce is a guy who actually lived through WWII and is a career bureaucrat who was also deep cover for Hydra, as best as I can tell. He's older than Fury, and besides the common ground of "being a white man" doesn't really have any other physical/biographical commonalities with the minor comics character. Agatha isn't a major comics character, but she was introduced twenty years earlier by Lee and Kirby and is woven into the past fifty years of Fantastic Four, Avengers, etc. lore. Then again, given what we've explicitly been shown in Wandavision, the only commonalities the two Agathas definitely have are "being a white woman" and being involved in magic, so it's entirely possible it's going to be another Pierce situation.
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Feb 25, 2021 15:33
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Sanguinia posted:Too bad this version of Bucky didn't kill Hitler, we could ask him. Who says he didn't kill Hitler - but in, say, 1974 in Brazil after HYDRA got enough DNA to start growing Super-Duper Hitler?
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Feb 25, 2021 15:41
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Everyone posted:Who says he didn't kill Hitler - but in, say, 1974 in Brazil after HYDRA got enough DNA to start growing Super-Duper Hitler? Surprise cameo is Hugh Jackman as Wol
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Feb 25, 2021 15:52
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Speaking of HYDRA is there any chance they infiltrated SWORD too?
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Feb 25, 2021 16:04
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Electric Phantasm posted:Speaking of HYDRA is there any chance they infiltrated SWORD too? My housemate keeps saying ‘it’s Hydra!’ to great annoyance.
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Feb 25, 2021 16:08
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Electric Phantasm posted:Speaking of HYDRA is there any chance they infiltrated SWORD too? In the comics, SWORD is compromised by a different group. Civil War seemed to indicate that Hydra is basically dead.
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Feb 25, 2021 16:09
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StrugglingHoneybun posted:Surprise cameo is Hugh Jackman as Wol And he's basically  with big wrist-claws. Electric Phantasm posted:Speaking of HYDRA is there any chance they infiltrated SWORD too? Sure, but probably not to the extent that the did SHIELD because SWORD, pre-Thanos was mostly focused on non-Earth stuff which wouldn't be of much use in terms of ruling Earth. But the idea that Haywood was a HYDRA plant who kept rising through the ranks even after HYDRA was destroyed would not be a surprise to me given how he's acted.
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Feb 25, 2021 16:13
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If they wanted to go with enemies hidden in plain sight, Skrulls are the more obvious choice especially with Secret Invasion coming up. Having Hydra be a plot line now too would just be very messy. I think the Hydra storyline is dead for now.
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Feb 25, 2021 16:16
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Alchenar posted:I'm fairly strongly in the 'Agatha isn't really a villain, that isn't really a swerve' camp now. Agatha's intro is literally her telling the audience she's been manipulating the events of the show from the start, that Wanda is not the only one that can effect things. She lands in front of Wanda's house in modern witch gear and in color, then morphs herself to fit the show. It is Agatha singing her own song. What her exact motivations and goals are remain to be seen, but having it be Wanda casting her as the villain would be infinitely dumber than her reveal being legit. - There's very little time left and a lot more plot points to get resolved, so having to loop back to Agatha actually being a victim wastes a bunch of time - Agatha is a fairly large character to use just to be a patsy for Wanda to pass blame off on - Most of the events in her reveal Wanda isn't present for. From what we've seen Wanda isn't aware of everything that happens within the hex
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Feb 25, 2021 16:29
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Cat Army
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Ouhei posted:- Most of the events in her reveal Wanda isn't present for. From what we've seen Wanda isn't aware of everything that happens within the hex I disagree, Agatha knew exactly when and where Vision was when he was about to attempt escape of the Hex and knew exactly what to tell him to manipulate his actions.
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Feb 25, 2021 16:39
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Another Bill posted:I disagree, Agatha knew exactly when and where Vision was when he was about to attempt escape of the Hex and knew exactly what to tell him to manipulate his actions. Agatha did, and yet Wanda seemed to have no idea until Billy told her.
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Feb 25, 2021 17:03
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Ouhei posted:
This is the most important for me. The show has been excellent so far, I can't see the writers jamming too much plot into the last 2 episodes, unless they leave everything hanging for Dr. Strange 2 for Wanda or Captain Marvel 2 for Monica.
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Feb 25, 2021 17:55
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There's always room for her to be a parasite or an opportunist taking advantage of whatever's more fundamentally causing the problem, not the "villain" in the sense of the person actually responsible for the underlying bad thing but not innocent either
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Feb 25, 2021 18:05
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:In the comics, SWORD is compromised by a different group. It was alive in Ant-Man, unless that guy Pym beat up in the 80s was the last of it.
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Feb 25, 2021 18:07
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My SO has been watching agents of shield and she just got to an episode right before Civil War and the rest of Hydra is wiped out off-screen thanks to intel from Powers Boothe.
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Feb 25, 2021 18:09
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Ouhei posted:- There's very little time left and a lot more plot points to get resolved, so having to loop back to Agatha actually being a victim wastes a bunch of time There isn't actually much left to resolve inside the town, beyond who created the hex and why (which almost certainly isn't on Agatha anyway) and what becomes of various people once the hex is gone beyond a reconciliation between different people. Which isn't going to take long. The only other thing to settle is what Heyward is doing. Which again, probably not going to take long given that he's probably going to attack Wanda or her surroundings in some fashion soon given Monica's urgency. It all seems like something that could be settled in one episode, while leaving the exact fate of one or two parties ambiguous for future projects. Additionally, Wanda must have some awareness of most things in the hex if she's able to control people at will throughout the town; including controlling the people on the outskirts enough to stop them moving beyond her directions. Unless the show is going to say Agatha was the one controlling pretty much everyone. Vision and her kids are some of the few people Agatha or presumably Wanda doesn't seem to have direct control over, for pretty obvious reasons. Another Bill posted:I disagree, Agatha knew exactly when and where Vision was when he was about to attempt escape of the Hex and knew exactly what to tell him to manipulate his actions. Agatha doesn't tell him much though, and he is the one that tells her he intends to leave the town to find help, before she even mentions anything about escape. Which he does after seeing a bunch of people frozen or stuck in tiny loops on the outskirts of the town. Unless seeing Agnes in trouble by itself was enough to make him go from "well maybe it's okay" to "I gotta get these people help" despite him building up to leaving for multiple episodes then nothing she said or did actually contributed to his decision to leave. Never mind that nothing Agatha did seems to have pointed to her influencing his decision to fly up at that time, to look in her direction or to fly to her car. It seems like a total fluke, which is a terrible thing to hang a villain's actions on, even putting aside that she didn't actually show or tell him anything likely to have galvanized his decision.
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Feb 25, 2021 18:13
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sticklefifer posted:Bear with me here, but I feel like the new Wolverine would be a good place to slate a wrestler with decent acting skills trying to break into Hollywood. You know he'll maintain the physique, can probably do his own stunts, and doesn't have to show a lot of emotional range because his job is to look like a badass all the time. I had doubts about Dave Bautista when he joined the MCU, but he's made Drax one of the most fun characters. Digging up an old post but this made me think of Daniel Bryan trying to play Wolverine and I'm laughing my rear end off. Anyway, Agatha manipulated Wanda into creating the twins because something something Mephisto, who will remain off-screen until being revealed at the end of Loki's season and then he's the main antagonist of Phase 4. I am unreasonably confident about this and will not acknowledge that I ever said it if it turns out I'm wrong. e: forgot to include, Wanda will give Agatha what she wants in exchange for the knowledge of how to properly resurrect Vision (which will turn out to be a lie or get sabotaged). There will be dire consequences, probably for the people of Westview, which contributes to SWORD going full-on Sentinel program on metahumans. Mr. Baps fucked around with this message at 18:48 on Feb 25, 2021 |
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Feb 25, 2021 18:13
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live with fruit posted:It was alive in Ant-Man, unless that guy Pym beat up in the 80s was the last of it. Ant-Man was right before Civil War, so he could have been the last remnant.
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Feb 25, 2021 18:42
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Edge & Christian posted:I guess we don't really know Agatha's whole deal, but comics Alexander Pierce and movie Alexander Pierce are barely the same character. learned from one of Riesman's recaps that Agatha Harkness was one of the very last, if not the last, Marvel characters of any significance to be co-created by Stan Lee and Jack Kirby. not relevant to the plot, of course, but interesting bit of trivia
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Feb 25, 2021 19:02
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live with fruit posted:It was alive in Ant-Man, unless that guy Pym beat up in the 80s was the last of it. Hydra isn't completely dead, but in Civil War Zemo says that he has been going through the remnants of Hydra's leadership to find the guy in charge of the Winter Soldier project. And when he finds him, he's just holed up alone in a house by himself and doesn't expect anyone to be contacting him. Seems to indicate that it is a shell of what it was and probably not taking over the government again.
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Feb 25, 2021 19:42
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Codependent Poster posted:Falcon and Winter Soldier is probably gonna help set up mutants in the MCU. Is this based on something? I haven't really been following the Falcon and Winter Soldier news, but the trailer doesn't seem to imply mutants. Would definitely be interesting. I'm hoping there is some type of hook or twist for the show, because a buddy action comedy could be entertaining, but doesn't seem to move the story forward. All these COVID delays and rescheduling are making the already fairly long gap between story beats painfully long. We are at close to two years from when Phase 3 ended and Phase 4 was supposed to kick off almost a year ago.
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Feb 25, 2021 19:47
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Barry Convex posted:learned from one of Riesman's recaps that Agatha Harkness was one of the very last, if not the last, Marvel characters of any significance to be co-created by Stan Lee and Jack Kirby. not relevant to the plot, of course, but interesting bit of trivia Both Lee and Kirby created a bunch of bigger characters after their partnership ended, but this was when Kirby left for DC for several years, and by the time he came back to Marvel in the mid 1970s he wanted to write his own stuff, and Lee was off in Los Angeles anyway. As for Falcon & Winter Soldier setting up mutants, the only sort of deep lore that is shown/mentioned in casting/PR that might suggest that is: John Walker, aka Superpatriot, aka The New Captain America, aka USAgent is a series lead if more or less absent in the trailers. John Walker's backstory in the comics is that he was sort of a right wing activist who thought Steve Rogers was too soft and not Reagan Era Patriotic enough, and was somehow even stronger/faster than Steve Rogers. He got picked to replace Rogers as Captain America by a literally shadowy government panel, and it was eventually revealed that he got his superpowers from THE POWER BROKER, aka Curtiss Jackson (really) in what was meant to be some sort of steroid allegory, but also was revealed to be one of a dozen sub rosa plots by the Red Skull to destabilize and demoralize the United States. I guess you could combine this storyline with later stories where the Power Broker's organization moves into selling Mutant Growth Hormones into some sort of mishmash where there are new people with powers cropping up everywhere and it's either pulling a 'mutants created by humans' story or a Harbinger-style 'they're just activating latent mutant talents and taking credit for it' twist but all of that is a bit of a stretch unless there's other casting/plot points I've missed out on. Edge & Christian fucked around with this message at 19:56 on Feb 25, 2021 |
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Feb 25, 2021 19:47
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Is this based on something? I haven't really been following the Falcon and Winter Soldier news, but the trailer doesn't seem to imply mutants. Would definitely be interesting. mostly based on it being confirmed that some of it is set in Madripoor, i think eke out fucked around with this message at 20:17 on Feb 25, 2021 |
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Feb 25, 2021 19:50
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I still think the WV timeline is: - Wanda goes into a grief-rage state and catastrophically creates the Hex, endangering everyone in Westview - Agatha enters the Hex and uses magical suggestion to turn her world into a neat, sanitized sitcom reality - Agatha slowly introduces more realistic elements, makes suggestions (like her incredulous "You can do that?" when one of the kids asks if she can bring Sparky back to life, gently forcing Wanda to confront how that's not part of her abilities), guides her through her grief, and generally re-acclimates Wanda to the real world - Right when Wanda starts falling into despair again, Agatha comes screaming in with a classic "I'm the Bad Guy" song and dance to focus Wanda's attention away from her darker impulses I agree with everyone who says Agatha's whole schtick is an intervention for Wanda/rescue mission for Westview. Agatha may not be a full-on good guy, but she's not twirling her mustache and cackling either.
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Feb 25, 2021 20:14
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I mean she is twirling her moustache and literally cackling, but yeah those seem likely to be very performative.
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Feb 25, 2021 20:22
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SirSamVimes posted:I mean she is twirling her moustache and literally cackling, but yeah those seem likely to be very performative. 
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Feb 25, 2021 20:24
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it'll be revealed next episode that Sparky was actually a rabid possum that became a cute dog when Wanda hexed it, so actually Agatha is a hero who euthanized a sick animal humanely
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Feb 25, 2021 20:27
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It seems they haven't dropped (yet) the ad for tomorrow's episode. Makes me wonder how spoilery would it be  Falcon and the Winter Soldier has (more glimpses of Zemo!): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqcgzj344ow
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Feb 25, 2021 21:01
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gey muckle mowser posted:it'll be revealed next episode that Sparky was actually a rabid possum that became a cute dog when Wanda hexed it, so actually Agatha is a hero who euthanized a sick animal humanely "And I euthanized the raccoon!"
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Feb 25, 2021 21:13
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I’m glad they’re throwing money at their tv shows cause they could all look really bad without it.
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Feb 25, 2021 21:18
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pop fly to McGillicutty posted:"And I euthanized the raccoon!" Poor Rocket:(
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Feb 25, 2021 21:20
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eke out posted:mostly based on it being confirmed that some of it is set in Madripoor, i think That and the rumors are they're going to weave in the Weapon Plus storyline.
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Feb 25, 2021 21:25
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swickles posted:Poor Rocket:( ? Rocket is a trash panda, he's fine.
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Feb 25, 2021 21:40
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Edge & Christian posted:it was eventually revealed that he got his superpowers from THE POWER BROKER, aka Curtiss Jackson (really) in what was meant to be some sort of steroid allegory, but also was revealed to be one of a dozen sub rosa plots by the Red Skull to destabilize and demoralize the United States. Yessss, bring this version to the MCU. 
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Feb 25, 2021 21:58
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That is a wide dude. He makes a space marine seem tiny.
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Feb 25, 2021 22:09
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Zil posted:That is a wide dude. He makes a space marine seem tiny. Very Liefeldian proportions.
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Feb 25, 2021 22:15
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