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Yvonmukluk
Oct 10, 2012

Everything is Sinister


sticklefifer posted:

I have to assume the concept designers of the MCU made Wanda's powers look similar to the Aether on purpose, because they seem to be leaning into her as basically a lesser Reality Stone. I'm kind of surprised they never went all out and connected it to her in the movies.

Considering reality warping is her whole thing in the comics, that would make sense. Although it might also be a bit of serendipity.

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Yvonmukluk
Oct 10, 2012

Everything is Sinister


Yeah, wasn't Trials & Tribble-ations super expensive given the DS9 production crew's determination to 100% match the TOS sets as much as possible (obviously the greenscreening to insert the actors into existing footage wasn't cheap either). If they're going all out for the period sets (not to mention all the CGI) it's going to add up.

Yvonmukluk
Oct 10, 2012

Everything is Sinister


tsob posted:

It is nice when Marvel acknowledge that there is a whole world outside New York that they can tell stories about occasionally. They still mostly stick to the United States, fictional places like Latvaria, Wakanda, Genosha etc or alien planets entirely, so hoping for a story focused on someplace in Italy or Nigeria or whatever is probably futile, but even LA would be cool just for a bit of variety.

Cloak and Dagger is set in New Orleans, for one.

I will never not recommend that show to people.

Yvonmukluk
Oct 10, 2012

Everything is Sinister


Various Artists posted:

so that cape show huh
You mean Cloak & Dagger? That was a pretty good show.
Dammit, did they recast Cloak? And whitewash him, too?
:downsrim:

Yvonmukluk
Oct 10, 2012

Everything is Sinister


It'd be hilarious if, given Monica's Louisiana background, if the 'aerospace engineer' is a euphemism and she's actually going to ask Cloak & Dagger to teleport her in.

Not going to happen, but still.

Yvonmukluk
Oct 10, 2012

Everything is Sinister


Protagorean posted:

It was so underpushed I'd never heard about it until you asked and it apparently sucked so bad Marvel axed it after one ten-episode season (though being the one errant project remaining from the aborted line-up of similarly themed Hulu MCU shows probably had more to do with it)

Hey, Cloak & Dagger was great.

Runaways I'll grant you.

Yvonmukluk
Oct 10, 2012

Everything is Sinister


Doctor Nutt posted:

And yet you can watch Inhumans on Disney plus while The Incredible Hulk is nowhere to be seen. Kind of a bizarre choice given the RDJ cameo and the fact that General Ross pops back up in Winter Soldier like we're supposed to know who he is.

The more important thing is that Helstrom is on Star or whatever it's called, but Cloak & Dagger isn't.

I really hope if that show is dropped from MCU canon they pull an Evan Peters and get the leads back to reprise their roles, they're the best part of a great show.

Yvonmukluk
Oct 10, 2012

Everything is Sinister


The_Doctor posted:

I noticed those because I’m familiar with them. They’re called vèvès, and they’re from voodoo. They act as a sort of representation/attraction point for the loa, spirits that play an important part in voodoo. Each loa has its own specific vèvè.
Huh, voodoo was pretty integral to Cloak & Dagger, so that's interesting.

swickles posted:

In Agents of SHIELD the Darkhold corrupts those who read it, which is why they had an android read it, thinking it wouldn't corrupt her. So are we going to get a more villainous Scarlett Witch going forward?
Given the whole backstory of the Scarlet Witch as a destined destroyer, I think it's pretty likely. Possibly she'll be an antagonist for at least part of Dr. Strange 2.

Yvonmukluk
Oct 10, 2012

Everything is Sinister


Jagermonster posted:

So is every witch fight just a race to see who can slap their runes around the room first?

Presumably normally doing that move would be so obvious that it'd be very easy to stop, since it's a multi-step process and the other person can just throw magic missiles at them. But Agatha underestimated Wanda.

Also maybe it needs to be a hexagonal room/area to work.

Yvonmukluk
Oct 10, 2012

Everything is Sinister


BIG HEADLINE posted:

I think it was implied that he was trying to create a Vision that he could control. That ~kinda~ sounds like something that'd violate the Sokovia Accords. It also ~kinda~ seemed like he was (poorly) trying to turn S.W.O.R.D. into a new HYDRA-like organization, which probably would've been way easier to do with a Wind-Up version of Vision.

https://marvelcinematicuniverse.fandom.com/wiki/Sokovia_Accords

It also probably violated Vision's 'don't weaponise me, please' living will.

Yvonmukluk
Oct 10, 2012

Everything is Sinister


Its Rinaldo posted:

I don't think I ever had moment with Hulk as calculated and chilling as when Vision tells Wanda she can't control him like the others and she just stares at him and tilts her head and says "Can't I?"

I mean, if they ever adapt Immortal Hulk, you could see it.

Yvonmukluk
Oct 10, 2012

Everything is Sinister


Teek posted:

Its strange, because I saw a lot of people hyped about her appearance, but this was the first thing I am ever cognizant of seeing her in. I guess I just haven't watched her past shows. :shrug:

Have you watched into the Spider-Verse? She was Doc Ock.

Yvonmukluk
Oct 10, 2012

Everything is Sinister


Open Source Idiom posted:

- that really garbage bit with the Tunisian family. Don't pretend you've got anything to say about race, show. You don't.
Were you watching a different show from everyone else?

Yvonmukluk
Oct 10, 2012

Everything is Sinister


Koirhor posted:

No goddammit the fact that Sam doesn’t have the money on hand stretches credulity, loving Stark pays poo poo I guess

I think the consensus is that the Avengers weren't getting paid, they got to live in the compound with everything paid for. Then Sam was on Team Cap & living on the run, and didn't exist the last 5 years.

Yvonmukluk
Oct 10, 2012

Everything is Sinister


Dacap posted:

I just think if they wanted to do a systemic racism plot at the appropriate scale, wouldn’t it have been better to have the Government reject the idea of Sam as Cap before bringing out the white guy rather than have Sam turn it down?

I think the fact they didn't say, 'hey veteran, hero, and best friend of Steve Rogers who he entrusted with his shield and implictly the mantle of Captain America, we think there should be a new Cap, do you want to do it?' but instead got the shield from him under false pretences and probably less than 48 hours after he handed it off revealed the new guy kind of speaks to the fact they'd rejected the idea of him as Cap.

Yvonmukluk
Oct 10, 2012

Everything is Sinister


Electric Phantasm posted:

It'a gonna turn out Flag Smasher only robbed that bank because he too was turned down for a loan.
I mean, that has to have been deliberate.

Yvonmukluk
Oct 10, 2012

Everything is Sinister


Phylodox posted:

To be fair, his idol also lent his name to selling war bonds, a fact that's prominently displayed in the scene at the Smithsonian.

TBF, that was because it was the only way he could help fight the Nazis at that specific point in time.

Yvonmukluk
Oct 10, 2012

Everything is Sinister


Codependent Poster posted:

Brubaker's run is absolutely up there for best Cap story. There would only be competition from Gruenwald's stories.

I will not stand for this Kirby erasure. You better not be leaving out Madbomb.

Yvonmukluk
Oct 10, 2012

Everything is Sinister


I'd really love to see Immortal Hulk get adapted. I presume streaming doesn't count as part of the Universal deal, and they have Star now if they were willing to do it.

Yvonmukluk
Oct 10, 2012

Everything is Sinister


AngryBooch posted:

That montage made me think they were doing a spin on MVP and combining him with Walker a bit.

Will this series have the guts to make Flag Smasher a superhero like they're telegraphing? Or more fodder for the Thunderbolts?

Given the Nomad identity isn't being used by anyone that'd be a good fit for her, actually.

Yvonmukluk
Oct 10, 2012

Everything is Sinister


Bust Rodd posted:

Extremely lol at them making the flagsmashers 1 wheelchair short of the Burger King Kids Club, it's an orgy of evidence that the Flagsmashers are beloved, multiethnic, and "woke" enough to have a small ginger woman as the leader.
The actress is biracial, isn't she?

Yvonmukluk
Oct 10, 2012

Everything is Sinister


Now I think about it, Louisana's 2nd place for heroes (Falcon, Photon and Cloak & Dagger if we count that series*) after New York.



*which honestly you should, it's pretty good.

Yvonmukluk
Oct 10, 2012

Everything is Sinister


sticklefifer posted:

People with lived experience who are in a position to tell those stories. There are plenty who are not white billionaires.

No it really isn't whatsoever, but go ahead and project if it makes you feel better. Disney has a massively sketchy history with race, so lampshading every black superhero's race by forcing the writing into contemporary racial issues accomplishes the same thing as Marvel using "Black (Hero Name)" to lampshade every black superhero's race in classic comic days. They even made a joke about it in this episode, so they're aware of it. But nobody treats Rhodey like that because he's not the protagonist. Nobody even treats Battlestar that way because the show's not about him. People are racist towards Falcon because the script said so. This is a production issue I have with the meta story, not an issue with all stories like it.
Actually both Luke Cage and Cloak & Dagger confronted issues of race directly, so I don't know where you're getting the idea that regular racism doesn't exist in the MCU. Hell, in the First Avenger somebody makes a comment about Morita, if I recall.

Now how well those stories addressed racism are subjective, but they did show it.

Also isn't the writers' room for FATWS majority-POC? Are their lived experiences not real enough for you?

Yvonmukluk
Oct 10, 2012

Everything is Sinister


sticklefifer posted:

Sure, sorry I'm not patting a multibillion dollar media conglomerate on the back for informing me that cops have a race problem in its space wizard franchise.

Did you stop to consider the people who actually make this show (who again, are majority POC) are using this as a platform to comment upon problems in the real world?

Yvonmukluk
Oct 10, 2012

Everything is Sinister


sticklefifer posted:

Good job adding another bizarre racist strawman a full page after people were being cool about it, AJA. So proud of you.

I appreciate the non-hostile takes, and this is the kind of stuff I can agree with. My phrasing could've been better, but my problems are 100% corporate, not with racial content itself. They don't seem to be doing an "America won't accept a black Cap" or a "Falcon won't accept the shield because of America's issues" narrative, so it felt tonally unsubtle and tacked on to me, but knowing it was supposed to air last summer does make a ton more sense. Either way I'll drop it and get back to boat financing chat.

Let's see, we saw the US government take the shield via deception from Sam to give to their own pre-selected white candidate for Cap and we met Isaiah Bradley, the second US super-soldier and first African-American superhero who rather than being feted as the new Captain America, was thrown in jail for 30 years and experimented on.

They're totally not doing an 'America won't accept a black Cap' narrative.

Yvonmukluk
Oct 10, 2012

Everything is Sinister


Marsupial Ape posted:

I seriously hope that they drop the whole "Kid Black Captain America took street drugs to get his powers" bullshit and just say that Eli inherited his powers from his grandfather. Make it an actually legacy.

Didn't he get hurt in a fight after that came out, and then Isaiah gave him a blood transfusion which gave him powers for real? But yeah, just skip to that bit, Marvel, thanks.

Yvonmukluk
Oct 10, 2012

Everything is Sinister


NowonSA posted:

I wouldn't expect it to be too complicated. Even if losing half the population resulted in the utopia Thanos was hoping for (which it definitely didn't) and created a true unified earth without borders or wars, billions of lives is an unfathomably high price to pay for that.

Endgame was already stacked to the gills, but it would have been interesting if during one of the scenes (maybe during the grief counseling scene or while Natasha and Cap are hanging out) they pointed out some of the things that had improved, kind of as a way to try to cheer themselves or others up. While I don't think any debate about whether to bring everyone back or not holds water, I think the world starting to be on the right track after 5 years would have been more intriguing than the impression Endgame gave of everything barely holding together and garbage piling up in the streets.

Also I may have had the wrong idea on how that last scene went down, just with how it was edited it didn't seem they went to the extreme. But with the way the last shot is framed and how the Shield looks, it seems pretty likely that what I wanted to have happened happened, they just toned it down to basically the maximum you could. Which hey, that makes sense I suppose for the Mouse.

Steve did make that comment about Whales in the Hudson...

I could see Bruce while being glad everyone came back, not feeling super great about all the old systems of exploiting people returning at the same time. Maybe even a little angry that the world didn't learn anything from it...

Give me Devil Hulk you cowards.

Yvonmukluk
Oct 10, 2012

Everything is Sinister


Spacebump posted:

I have no idea what the Spider-Man licensing deal says and would love to read it. Even if they couldn’t use Holland Spider-Man, I’d love to see it. I don’t think a Spidey DC movie cross over will happen but it is fun to dream.

I think a version got leaked when Sony got hacked that's probably out on the internet somewhere. I recall there was a list of all the characters that they could use as well as specifying that Peter can't do stuff to damage the brand like torture, kill, deal drugs (this was clearly stated in the deal, IIRC)...obviously, except for when he's affected by the Symbiote. So I guess Venom Peter can be a drug dealer if they really want.


Looks like Karli might be going after the GRC directly, then.

Also editing around the bloody shield, I see.

Yvonmukluk
Oct 10, 2012

Everything is Sinister


Carlosologist posted:

it dawns on me that they jailed Isiah for doing the same thing that made Steve Captain America in earnest. that's just an incredible bit of storytelling

:aaaaa:

Yvonmukluk
Oct 10, 2012

Everything is Sinister


stev posted:

I love how transparently evil they made the GRC at the end there. "gently caress the refugees, push them in the sea or something I don't care".

It kills me that they don't seem to be veering away from their "both sides" course.


I mean, there was still pushback to the 'send them all back' plan even from other GRC members. Given that the US was the one pushing the plan, I suspect it's kinda like the UN where the major powers run roughshod over the rest of the world.

Yvonmukluk
Oct 10, 2012

Everything is Sinister


Sanguinia posted:

There is an alternate universe female Bucky named Rebecca "Rikki," Barnes who was created as a result of he fallout with Onslaught back in the 90s. She served as the sidekick to several Captain Americas including a Peggy Carter Captain Brittain version until she later adopted the super-identity of NOMAD, THE GIRL WITHOUT A WORLD.



Apparently a lot of people online are hoping this mantle will be Karli's ultimate fate after being de-escalated from terrorism and returning to her Robin Hood Revolutionary ways. Which I think is a great idea. It pays off the talk about how SHE should be Captain America but maintains her dismissal of the Shield and its symbolism, it lets her be reborn and leave behind the identity of Flag Smasher which she's tainted by her actions without giving up her ideals, it gives her a platform to work toward atoning for her misdeeds, and the whole GIRL WITHOUT A WORLD thing fits perfectly with her status as a stateless borderless outsider to all nations and their power structures.

She was also Valkyrie's girlfriend for a while, so that's nice. :)

Nomad was also first an identity Steve came up with in the 616 in one of the many times he gave up the shield, so there’s also that angle of her as a successor to him of sorts in a meta sense.

Yvonmukluk
Oct 10, 2012

Everything is Sinister


Seedge posted:

Hey, if you want more Marvel TV shows, Runaways Season 3 just hit Disney+.

You know. If you want that.

I didn’t know the first two were on there.

Is Cloak & Dagger there too?

Yvonmukluk
Oct 10, 2012

Everything is Sinister


Golden Bee posted:

It’s not clear if they vibranium can beat adamantium, I think it’s up to the comic. I don’t think there any panels of wolverine piercing the shield with his claws?

In the comics, Cap's shield is its own unique alloy that uses Vibranium that is stronger than either and Adamantium is a (relatively) unsuccessful attempt to recreate it.

I think it goes Vibranium<Adamantium<Captainium.

Yvonmukluk
Oct 10, 2012

Everything is Sinister


I'm one of the people disappointed that Karli isn't going to get to be Nomad going forward. I guess if they really want to, they could say she wakes up in the ambulance and then went underground (because who would believe her if she went around claiming Sharon was the Power Broker? All the evidence is in Madripoor, and it'd just let her know Karli's still around) if they change their mind later.

The Sharon heel turn is going to be interesting down the road - as others have said, it'll probably figure into Armour Wars. I kind of hope that it turns out she's not a Skrull, because that'd kind of be a copout (he said, hoping they retcon Karli's death). I'm guessing she killed the fence they met in Madripoor before she could reveal her identity, and I guess was playing along with Sam and Bucky to use them as a lead on Karli. I imagine only a tiny amount of people actually knew she's the power broker, they just think she's the art dealer. Obviously she wasn't expecting Zemo to cap her serum guy, but hey, Sam did manage to get her an in to the US government to work with.

Mackie killed it as Cap, and that speech at the end, while heavy handed, was nonetheless great. And frankly being subtle wouldn't have worked.

Honestly everyone turned in great performances throughout.


All in all, drat fine show. Think I might do a Cloak & Dagger rewatch now. (I'll say it again, it's the most underrated live-action Marvel series. I will be taking no further questions). Kind of feels like it shares a lot of the same DNA with FATWS.

Yvonmukluk
Oct 10, 2012

Everything is Sinister


Didn't they have a line in FFH talking about Kree infiltrators? Given Kree can pass for human in their own right, maybe the Kree are going to be the ones doing the invading and the Skrulls will be trying to stop them.

Yvonmukluk
Oct 10, 2012

Everything is Sinister


BrianWilly posted:

Again, the show can say whatever it wants to say. At the end of the day though, I can't remember the last time that leftists tried to enact change by kidnapping politicians, but I sure can remember the last time that politicians were targeted for kidnapping and it wasn't by leftists.

Given the problem Sam had with Karli was her methodology and not her ideology, maybe that's the point?

Yvonmukluk
Oct 10, 2012

Everything is Sinister


Ravel posted:

The show suggests that the appropriate way to achieve justice is by stirring public rebukes and not through violence.

Even though the Avengers solve 99% of their problems through violence.

I mean, it was more 'the ballot or the bullet', because the rebuke was basically 'if you don't want another, more extreme Karli you have to listen to these people'.

Yvonmukluk
Oct 10, 2012

Everything is Sinister


Alchenar posted:

The closest real world analogy to the snap is victims of the holocaust who were taken from all stratas of society returning to their pre-war homes to find other people now living in them and they weren't going to be allowed their old lives back.

I mean the snap literally turns its victims into ashes, it's the holocaust.

e: and that is why a big chunk of my angle is 'the show short-changes the GRC on the terms of its own narrative'. They're the ones on the side of the holocaust victims.

I kind of feel comparing them to holocaust victims is a tad extreme. Not to mention even if you accept the premise exactly morally equivalent, cramming all of the people who helped keep the world running for the last 5 years into crammed refugee camps to be deported in the name of 'returning to normal' is still immoral.

Yvonmukluk
Oct 10, 2012

Everything is Sinister


Collapsing Farts posted:

Most of the MCU heroes are unmasked tho

Spiderman is basically the exception at this point

And that's not even the case given FFH.

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Yvonmukluk
Oct 10, 2012

Everything is Sinister


ANOTHER SCORCHER posted:



His sexuality is clearly deformed, do you think this does not express itself in his creative work?

Given this is the third time Gunn’s decade-old shitposts have been brought up and the last two times didn’t really convince anyone outside of jumpy Disney execs who backtracked, I’m not sure this is the slam dunk you think it is.

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