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Just watched Wandavision on a drunken whim 'cause I got spoiled on a hell of a twist, I get the feeling I'm gonna be disappointed but it seems meta enough to be fun.Cage Kicker posted:They're doing Dragon Ball Z time travel, not BTtF I do love how Dragon Ball is relatively consistent about that, and then in Super a big deal is that it introduces a different form of time travel that works by different rules, with the interactions between them being part of the plot, and more or less everyone in-universe immediately loses track of exactly what's going on. (Goku certainly does, anyway) Also, first thought on the question way back of 'Why aren't the crew actively trying to contact Vision' is probably because as far as they know, Vision is dead, and what's walking around in the show is basically a puppet- and it seems implied he basically was, and is only now starting to think and act independently (the line about how they used to be basically one mind may be literal). Which raises the question as to exactly what he is now.
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Feb 9, 2021 10:02
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Reminded of what's going on with Geoff Johns with old fuckers ending up blowing up their own careers out of pettiness and racism.
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Feb 10, 2021 05:47
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Didn't Loeb lose his mind after his son died and started writing exclusively brutal violence to the point of literally killing the Ultimate Universe?
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Feb 10, 2021 06:20
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Still some weird funny irony that Geoff Johns was pushing Cyborg on the Justice League ridiculously hard (despite never thinking of anything useful to actually do with him) and then went out of his way specifically to alienate the actor who played him and let another racist completely erase his character.
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Feb 10, 2021 07:21
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Comic books are just a ludicrously reader-hostile format now.
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Feb 10, 2021 09:36
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It seems like the ascendant success of superhero movies just ended up wrecking the comics. And not even just directly like with Marvel's licensing bullshit.
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Feb 10, 2021 10:32
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Necrothatcher posted:Both companies had good runs in the 2000s hiring creators who wanted to mix things up for iconic characters. But comic-book fans don't like change and are loud and annoying, so they reestablished the status quo and the stories have only gotten more boring over time. Reminds me of what happened with D&D; they tried to mix it up with actual mechanical effort and focus, and the worst reactionary fans scared them into walking it all back and making trite pap. Comic book readership loving crashed in the 90s iirc and never really recovered. And the comics still require you to keep up with up to three series at a time to actually keep up with the plot, and issues often have basically a pamphlet's worth of actual story due to decompression being the only way they know how to do things now. (seriously, read an actual comic from the 60s compared to a modern one: things happen.)
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Feb 10, 2021 14:56
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BrianWilly posted:Oh there's definitely a ton of great WandaVision fanart if you can brave Tumblr and its poor excuse of a "search" "function." I quite like this one. I get Disco Elysium vibes from this. Am reminded that WandaVision almost at times seems like 'that Twilight Zone episode from the perspective of the kid with godlike psychic powers', complete with wishing someone to the cornfield when they get inconvenient. Also have to shamefully admit to identifying with the wacky comic relief who started out investigating something weird and later admitted they'd gotten invested.
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Feb 11, 2021 06:38
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Lid posted:when i was earlier writing about how comics in the 2000s were good i should've asterixed that to how overhyped Geoff and Jeph Loeb both were. I think it came up earlier itt, but Geoff Johns was apparently a huge rear end in a top hat on the set of Justice League and racist as hell towards Ray Fisher, while I dunno about Loeb but I'm guessing people eventually realised he was a crazy rear end in a top hat who turned everything he wrote into murder porn and wore out the sympathy points from his dead son.
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Feb 11, 2021 07:39
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Every impression I get from the comics division of Marvel AND DC is they both turned into nearly Games Workshop level nepotism and fart-huffing of old white fuckers hotboxing their nostalgia with minimal meaningful contact with the outside world.
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Feb 11, 2021 12:22
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Was the 90s X-Men cartoon really in a shared universe with the other Marvel stuff? I mean, wouldn't surprise me too much, but still. I do remember the Silver Surfer cartoon being interestingly weird. Reminds me of Captain America's cameo in X-Men Evolution, which had an interesting take on Project Rebirth; that it grants humans great physical power which is slowly killing them (and in this version Cap is presumably voluntarily cryogenically frozen til they find a cure) while Magneto seeks it out because it actually reverses ageing and lengthens life for mutants.
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Feb 12, 2021 03:33
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Actually tracks with the comics that Spidey actually can hold off the entire X-Men by himself.
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Feb 12, 2021 04:43
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Infinitum posted:Pietro switching to his dead body momentarily also has interesting ramifications of which version he is. I got the impression it's another case similar to seeing corpse Vision of Wanda's own memories and trauma being visualised, brought up especially because their memories are not lining up and it's really messing with Wanda's head especially since she's trying to remember him from memories she's actively repressing/altering. That and the possible subtext this episode's ad- the claymation style is so 90s by the way- gives the impression that he really might be the X-Men movieverse Pietro, plucked from an alternate universe, and he may be aware of it and actively rolling with it because especially if it's a timeline leading to DoFP or Logan he's probably seeing poo poo go very south for mutants and/or himself personally. The Hex may have tried to bring back her brother but given he's long dead and there's not even enough remaining of him to construct a decent simulacra, they instead went for the next best thing. Although someone else has suggested the ad may mean something else is feeding on Wanda's powers. There's a lot of symbolism going on in this episode, the frozen cul de sac almost seems too on the nose. Actually on some further thought, we see Agnes frozen on her way out of town, and her role as the wacky guest who shakes things up and doesn't question things- complete with literally letting Wanda start a scene over- from last episode seems to be supplanted by Pietro. Both seem to be more aware of things than they're letting on, but then still don't know everything. That may tie in with how I think Hayward, shown to be a paranoid, trigger-happy clown, knows more than he's letting on but isn't necessarily in control- I get the impression that aside from the theft of Vision's corpse, the Hex is the last known location of another asset he's hell-bent on recovering. At the very least, he's handling things with a lot more urgency than the others and trying to shut them out. Ghost Leviathan fucked around with this message at 12:30 on Feb 12, 2021 |
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Feb 12, 2021 12:16
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tsob posted:It is? On the nose of what, out of interest? I only got a superficial reading on it, that Wanda either can't or won't directly control the actions of anyone not in her direct vicinity, so everyone else is just frozen until she comes within a certain radius and then they can move as she directs them, to fit with her sitcom world. What's the deeper thematic relevance I'm missing? Which has fairly horrifying implications if the Hex is now expanding, and could start to cover a huge amount of ground, since it'd mean even more people are just vacant husks until she gets in relatively close proximity with them. Which she may never do, if the area covered is larger than a town. Do they continue to age as they just stand there, frozen. Imagine a baby, just sat in a crib for 20 years because Wanda never came to that remote area, growing larger but never actually maturing or even experiencing anything I mean more it might represent the presumed defunct X-Men film universe, a 'creative cul-de-sac' having been used as a derogatory term for the DC cinematic universe and the Snyder cut in particular, which was always pretty lol. But a film series that already had enough problems and semi-reboots before being lost in legal limbo and presumed to be heading for a reboot would definitely qualify. And remember before Herb was the one before who started cutting through the brick fence when things moved to colour and seemed to be obliquely trying to get Vision to question his reality but trying not to outright mention anything. He seems more self-aware than most Westview residents. And given that he's stating what Pietro is up to before he does it, it might not just be sitcom timing but he's actively trying to keep Wanda occupied while Vision is investigating.
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Feb 12, 2021 12:37
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Internet marketing is such a poo poo ouroboros of nonsense and bullshit I wouldn't read too much into it until the dust settles. Also, while I'm not exactly assuming or even expecting it to be a full on X-Men films crossover... there's a hell of a lot of teasing if it isn't; while I don't recall AoU Pietro's characterisation much, most everything we see of this one tracks with his characterisation in DoFP that I do remember; that he's a lazy (but of course, he can always do everything in seconds) manchild, a casual thief, has a general screwball speedster mentality. And while Wanda briefly sees him as a bullet-riddled walking corpse, he mentions being 'shot in the street for no reason' as if he knows how her Pietro died but none of the context... which would make sense if he's only seen the recap. And they've already done meta things with the recaps. Not to mention, MCU Pietro would probably recognise Vision given they fought together in the battle he died in... and wouldn't know that Vision's meant to be dead. Pietro's behaviour makes sense if he basically got given some character notes and a role- the one who causes chaos- and is trying to play along. Ghost Leviathan fucked around with this message at 13:13 on Feb 12, 2021 |
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Feb 12, 2021 13:01
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BurritoJustice posted:Haywood's secret file is called "Cataract" secret weapons program. Obviously a play on Vision. dude obviously got up to some weird poo poo during the 5 years of superpower induced trauma Am I the only one who read that as Cataphract? I blame Age of Empires.
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Feb 12, 2021 14:00
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Yeah, generally if an actual trailer comes out, you're going to hear about it.
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Feb 12, 2021 14:30
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Given literally the entire concept of the show, it'd be pretty silly if they expected the audience to 'brush aside and not question' ANYTHING. I suppose this is the MCU trying to be subtle and meta so they might screw it up, but still.
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Feb 12, 2021 15:01
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Mooseontheloose posted:A few things I noticed: 2: It'd be fitting and lol if it's the hazmat guy/beekeeper in a new costume. 3: Could be a few takes on that. Been said that the queen bitch in the first episode might be an externalisation of how Wanda is treating everyone else. On the other hand, it's heavily implied that Agnes is based on a comics character who is a witch but generally a good guy iirc, being the magic teacher for the Richards kids, but has been associated with Wanda's reality-breaking mental breakdowns enough to splash back on her reputation both in setting and with the readers and writers. So who knows exactly what they're going for there. One impression I DO get is that, in all likelihood someone/something else is working behind the scenes in the Hex, and Wanda isn't in full control of it as assumed- it's allowing Wanda control, as a means of making her get herself comfortable and want to stay in it, but it's trying to keep her under control in turn, and introducing various means of potentially doing so- discarding them when they don't work.
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Feb 12, 2021 15:26
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fractalairduct posted:"Didn't see that coming?" would have made a great sitcom catchphrase. Shame they didn't use that but I guess it wouldn't have worked with this Quicksilver clearly being a different person. This rather tracks with the comics too, since Strange is a pretty reclusive character to the mundane world and him getting involved in anything is a Big Deal, in no small part due to his power level and personality.
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Feb 12, 2021 15:38
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It can easily be both. Malcom in the Middle iirc was considered to be one of the earlier depictions of a family obviously shown as dysfunctional and unhealthy in sitcoms, but still with a light and comedic tone, with a focus on children and manchildren and a failing control freak mother. There's a lot of theories going around on the ads, including that they correspond to a period of Wanda's like as depicted and/or the Infinity Stones, the latter mostly through colour. -Stark-Tech toaster being the bomb with the red for the Reality Stone -Strucker watch being their time in HYDRA and obviously the Time Stone -Hydra-Soak being the brainwashing possibly both that they received and she inflicted on the Avengers, and with focus on a blue box that's clearly the Tesseract/Space Stone -Lagos towels clearly being the disaster in Lagos and the orange liquid the Soul stone For the latest one, A kid trapped on an island with a magic-branded cup he can't open is probably a reference to Wanda being imprisoned in The Raft in Civil War. And the purple cup (despite supposedly being strawberry) may be the Power Stone, which does gently caress up non-Thanos people who touch it. Also, this format may be spoiling how many episodes the show's going to have. At least in its current format.
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Feb 12, 2021 16:06
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It turns out there's a secret seventh infinity stone to summon a wish granting dragon, episode 8 is mostly screaming powerups, and 9 is a coda for time travelling... I dunno, Deadpool, let's go with Deadpool.
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Feb 12, 2021 16:15
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Would be really funny if Cable shows up and every Avenger and adjacent is really freaked out but can't articulate why.
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Feb 12, 2021 16:27
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Tyma posted:Regarding Pietro's questioning of Wanda I'm not sure if you're referencing Age of Ultron or one of the X-Men movies I didn't see, or neither there. And as for chronology: the sitcom's already had anachronistic technology and culture show up, and not to mention we're getting into the period that Wander was actually alive and remembers- she grew up presumably in a former Soviet Bloc country, born right before the wall fell. (almost the same age as me!) Can be presumed that she's imagining mishmashes of American sitcoms because that's what was on the TV when she was a child, since the rights would have been dirt cheap and the country hadn't developed its own entertainment industries yet. And it's quite possibly things get more mixed up as we move into what she actually remembers personally experiencing.
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Feb 12, 2021 16:48
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Veotax posted:My theory with Pietro: He's a plant, but actually a Pietro from another universe, maybe even actually the Fox X-Men universe. It seemed to me that he had only really surface-level knowledge of his and Wanda's life, like he had been briefed. He was grilling Wanda on how how the whole thing started. He's not under Wanda's control, maybe even immune, maybe protected? That's pretty much what I thought. I described it as him seeming like he's been coached, he's been given cliff's notes and a role to play, basically as an actor being sent out to improv. Interesting this is that he does seem to care about Wanda and the kids, which is probably why he's deliberately poking at her, when his role is probably meant to be just a wacky breakout character to provide acceptable levels of shenanigans and someone for the kids to play off... actually put that way, it makes a lot of sense that he's introduced after the Very Special Episode when the kids have aged up enough to do their own things and need someone else to play off, because they're going to be starting to push boundaries and question their reality themselves. The Hex is trying to maintain its sitcom status quo, introducing elements to keep it stable and provide distractions for Wanda to keep her placid and content, but it's still ultimately built around her psyche, which is anything but. The vibe I get overall is very much like a certain kind of semi-lucid dreaming, where you have some control over your environment and actions, but not complete, and it tends to reflect your psyche and memories in more ways than you'd like.
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Feb 12, 2021 17:30
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Gaz-L posted:
I do have to wonder if it'll end with Westview!Vision giving up his existence to free the town, and Wanda gets some closure out of it at least, since it means she gets to handle his passing being meaningful rather than a traumatic assisted suicide that was then immediately literally reversed and made completely pointless. ...you know, recalling how Vision actually died really does put in context how traumatised Wanda has to be by the whole thing. Though the movies never really gave time to dwell on it. Also, a big thing of why there's so little intervention so far is probably because A: the Hex is actually making an effort to be hidden and unnoticed by the outside world, it's not certain how long it's gone on for before the FBI guy stumbled on it, and 2: the response to it so far has been extremely secretive and trying to keep news from getting out, possibly for nefarious reasons.
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Feb 12, 2021 17:44
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Basically, Wanda did too good a job bringing him back. Because bringing back the Vision, means you bring back a guy whose first act upon being born, basically, was to risk his life for others. Which means it's gonna come down to saving the town, or him staying 'alive' and we know what one he's gonna choose.
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Phylodox posted:I still think the answer to this is obvious. The energies of the Infinity Stones have gravitated to Wanda since she’s already imbued with the power of the Mind Stone. Like attracts like. She now has the power of all the Infinity Stones within her. Her presence in the next Doctor Strange movie is going to be about Strange teaching her how to harness all that power. That the Stones have existed since the beginning of the universe, at at least one of them has a mind of its own, likely points to that simply destroying their physical representations isn't enough.
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Feb 13, 2021 04:22
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Djarum posted:I don’t know if it will be the introduction of the mutants. I think this at least will be the introduction of the multiverse, which seems to be the focus of the next several Marvel movies. I think you can have something akin to Secret Wars where the universes come together and you effectively have a soft reboot of things. You can recast characters like Iron Man, Captain America, etc with no issue, introduce mutants as if they were always there along with other characters. Yeah, and it'd make sense to put the X-Men universe as a seperate dimension- and point out that the Maximoff twins are one of the few characters to have equivalents in both universes and thus make a plausible convergence point. (Extra comedy value: both Wandas are played by the same actress) Maybe there's a universal convergence that makes a new combined continuity (and soft reboot with all new actors) or something, comics have done sillier.
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Feb 13, 2021 10:47
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Party Boat posted:I liked how unsettling it was when Vision started finding frozen or barely moving residents on the outskirts of Westview. Felt like when you manage to get out of bounds in a video game and start seeing background elements much closer than you were meant to. Oh yeah, that's absolutely the vibe and probably not a coincidence either. nerdbot posted:my crack Agnes theory is I think she was playing at being frozen in the car. Everyone else is completely motionless, all the lights are flickering in the cul-de-sac like everything's barely working. But her car still has the engine running, the car lights are staying steady, and when we see her up close, she's... like, I don't know to put this non-awkwardly, she's "still" but in the same way you'd be if someone told you not to move. Still breathing. We don't really get too close of a look at anyone else who is that far "out of bounds" but they all look completely and totally frozen in a way she didn't. That is honestly what makes sense to me. Agnes has been shown to act the most unlike other residents of Westview besides the superpowered family, actively ignoring bizarre things in front of her and acting suspiciously convenient for Wanda and Vision, complete with literally offering a do-over for scene. She happens to be the one idling at the very edge of the town when Vision is off investigating, which was telegraphed- and I get the impression everyone else in the town knows what Wanda and Vision are doing at all times.
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Feb 13, 2021 12:29
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Boxman posted:I don’t think a character was talking poo poo about the writing in another movie. I think it’s another “wait that’s not right” flag because Pietro didn’t die for no reason - he died a hero, saving an Avenger and an innocent Sokovian child. GlenMR posted:But if someone were to have no memory of Age of Ultron, and simply saw Pietro shot in the street during the 'Previously on WandaVision' section of the episode, they might assume he died for no reason? Yeah, that ties together with the idea that Pietro literally saw the recap and that's what the context for his character and 'death' is from. Which is also because I really love the idea that he's been given a prompt and character notes and sent in to improv. However things are going on, I do like the idea that they're a mess, and the implication probably is either the whole thing is going to turn out to be basically an accident or whatever the plan was, it went off the rails pretty quickly.
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Feb 13, 2021 16:07
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GigaPeon posted:The clowning is 1000x times more disturbing than the snappening. But does it have more meme potential?
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Feb 13, 2021 19:02
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Desperado Bones posted:Edit: Not only the kiss btw. The whole thing about Venom changing his mind from killing the human race because of Eddie, staying on earth because of Eddie, etc,etc (when Eddie never did anything that you would consider heroic). For me is was more a buddy cop relationship, with a bit of bromance. They def ain't cops, p sure they eat a bunch of em Their relationship is definitely shown as extremely intimate, starting with physical compatability, but a big part is that they learn to understand each other, Eddie going out of his way to learn to communicate with Venom and understand their needs and wants, while basically inviting Venom into his life and introducing them to the people he cares about, to the point where Venom realises they're similar but symbiote society as it is is implied to be really lovely and have nothing to really offer Venom besides a share of the next planet to devour before they move on. (There's something about predatory capitalism in there. Especially since the human antagonist is a Musk-ish CEO who makes a deal with the devil to feel even more special) Am reminded that I still think it'd be a hilarious dynamic for any version of Eddie to have a grudge against Peter Parker for some reason or another, but nothing against Miles Morales and even kinda liking him. (Was a joke around the time that he can be Miles' other hobo uncle)
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Feb 14, 2021 07:27
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Oh, yeah, it'd be pretty dumb if they were going to that effort for the casting situation and just making it a joke of no real consequence, especially since they've signalled about leaning into multiverse stuff and that the Maximoffs are the only major characters shared between both sets of movies.
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Feb 14, 2021 07:41
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twistedmentat posted:Yea, she's the controller, or maybe more accruately, The Director. I reckon this dovetails in with how she seems to be playing a part for Vision last episode rather than genuinely briefly freed from the Hex's control. She's trying to direct the scenes, and she's changing up her tactics as necessary. Exactly what she's trying to do is unclear, but does seem like she's trying both to mollify Wanda and encourage Vision to investigate... which makes sense, since it's clear Wanda can come and go from the Hex as she pleases, and does not respond well to anyone trying to pierce her bubble.
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Feb 16, 2021 06:56
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Phylodox posted:I don’t think we know either of those things. It’s entirely possible Evan Peters is just a bit of cheeky stunt casting and Mysterio was lying through his teeth. The latter should probably be a given, since Mysterio's whole thing and all. The former would be super disappointing though. Marvel's got no reason to hold back now and needs to get the hype train rolling again, this is the time to be swinging Disney's dick around.
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Feb 16, 2021 18:24
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Gavok posted:One minor thing that sort of skeeves me out about the latest episode is when Wanda and Vision are having their little argument and Billy looks to the camera to do one of his fourth-wall monologues, Pietro gives him the side-eye. I get the feeling that only Billy and Tommy are supposed to be able to be aware of those bits, so Pietro quietly acknowledging it feels really creepy. Especially since he acts on what Billy's saying a moment later. Might be that Pietro is coded as being like the older brothers in Malcom in the Middle, 'one of the kids', but still.
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Feb 17, 2021 05:45
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I always assumed Wanda's being manipulated, but not controlled; after all, the best way to get someone to do what you want is to make them think it's what they want. A little ironic too since her whole deal in AoU was using mind control to freak the Avengers out and turn them against each other/inflict emotional breakdowns. Given the Maximoffs have a totally different and not particularly deeply explored backstory in the MCU (since originally they're just mutants) they might go into that a little. Would be an interesting idea if the Mind Stone awoke what was already there in her, and actually limited her powers to a level that Hydra thought they could control.
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Feb 17, 2021 15:46
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Eh, that'd be a clunky way to introduce mutants to the MCU, not that I'd put it past them. Since one of the big themes with mutants is they've been around for a long time, but only recently emerging in numbers too widely and public to ignore or suppress... which to be fair, they COULD justify with recent events. Especially since they were originally 'Children of the Atom' supposedly triggered in growth by the first atomic bomb. Ah, 60s comic book science. They could get meta if they acknowledge the Fox universe or something similar as an alternate fork further back in the timeline where mutants became the dominant superhumans rather than the aliens and science one-offs of the MCU prime universe. Aidan_702 posted:well I mean there were three snaps on earth alone. So good as reason as any to have a poo poo load of weird cosmic radiation activating dormant mutant genes The wild thing is, as above, there's actual precedent for this, where this is the LESS silly variant. Not to mention the destruction of the Infinity Stones is probably loving around with universal constants a tad. It's also mentioned in GotG that the Celestials once used the Infinity Stones as tools, and a good ol' comics retcon was that mutants are (possibly?) a result of Celestials meddling with the genome of early humanity. Ghost Leviathan fucked around with this message at 17:19 on Feb 17, 2021 |
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Feb 17, 2021 17:16
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Right, I'd forgotten they'd pushed it back so far. And well, it's not like they haven't set up a pattern of 'make a satisfactory ending for a particular story while leaving open hooks to keep people interested in what comes next'. I imagine the climax is likely to be Wanda coming to terms with what she's been through while whatever's going on with the Hex is resolved, but likely hooks to what's going on next. And as suggested, it's like that's gonna be the multiverse, especially with not-Spiderverse coming out.
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Feb 17, 2021 17:32
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Lid posted:Its Dexter and his log cabin is in the woods there. Scott Buck merging universes. Just wait till Dee-Dee bursts through the door.
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Feb 18, 2021 17:04
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