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Eat My Fuc
May 29, 2007

Qu'ils mangent de la baise!


Duke Pukem posted:

why are you censoring the word Indian

It’s a pejorative for native american people

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Vagabundo
Mar 20, 2007

Ya like Little Wayne?


Indian being offensive absolutely depends on the context. Like, no one's going to raise any eyebrows if it's used to describe Jinder or Sonjay Dutt or someone - "that Indian guy who held the WWE title for some reason," or "that Indian guy that was in TNA that didn't do that stupid loving dance."


Doesn't the term only apply to Native Americans because that shitfuck rapist Columbus couldn't read a map?

Vagabundo fucked around with this message at 23:54 on Apr 1, 2021

Gumball Gumption
Jan 7, 2012

GET BACK UP

Vagabundo posted:

Indian being offensive absolutely depends on the context. Like, no one's going to raise any eyebrows if it's used to describe Jinder or Sonjay Dutt or someone - "that Indian guy who held the WWE title for some reason," or "that Indian guy that was in TNA that didn't do that stupid loving dance."


Doesn't the term only apply to Native Americans because that shitfuck rapist Columbus couldn't read a map?

Pretty much.

Also Indian vs. Native American vs. other terms is a really complicated and thorny topic. Neither term is really correct and is a misrepresentation. India is on the other side of the globe. America was not America when indigenous peoples ancestors came here. That's just the name of the colonized territory. It's incredibly complicated.

But gently caress wwe, they're just dicks.

Cavauro
Jan 9, 2008



I know

Hedgehog Pie
May 19, 2012

Total fuckin' silence.

collocation posted:


since it's somewhat topical right now with the guy who had the messy fetish charity scam being brought up this week


Was this a wrestling thing or something else I completely missed? Either way, yeah, someone at WWE is definitely into it.

History Comes Inside!
Nov 20, 2004





Hedgehog Pie posted:

Was this a wrestling thing or something else I completely missed? Either way, yeah, someone at WWE is definitely into it.

It was a fan, a uk indie boosted the “gently caress this guy he’s a creep” story because he was known to be an attendee at their shows and had gotten wrestlers to do stuff for the charity he was collecting for (by way of tricking people into making fetish videos for him) and thats how it got linked to wrestling.

collocation
Jun 17, 2018



I was offline yesterday, and the questions asked were already answered by other people, to which there isn't much for my to say but to second the answers.

---

I'm just about done with 2004. People seem to be keeping track of what Peacock deletes. If they continue to, I think that it will be interesting to compare what they do delete vs what they don't when 2004 Smackdown and Raw are uploaded, and that doing so might give people a better picture of whether they have official guidelines or are just doing this in an ad hoc manner.

---

Smackdown 12/02/04:

The Tough Enough contestants are told that they are going to get in touch with their feminine side. Before being told how they will, Miz makes a hand gesture to show what that means to him:



Al Snow tells them that they will do so by dressing up as women. After they do so, they come back out and are told that Hardcore Holly will judge them. Michael Cole then makes it clear that Miz was right about what this segment was about :

"If anybody <unintelligible> was homophobic, it'd have to be Hardcore Holly" - Michael Cole

When he finds out that they are going to hit on him for the contest, Holly is not happy:

"I came out here to judge a contest. I am not the desire or affection of any man. At least I hope I'm not." - Holly

Miz wins. Snow puts a dress up against Holly to seemingly joke about how he would look good in it, so Holly punches him.

On the bright side, Holly didn't shoot on any of the contestants.

collocation fucked around with this message at 17:26 on Apr 2, 2021

a cyborg mug
Mar 8, 2010







Yikes

sticklefifer
Nov 11, 2003

TOO EASY

When was that APA gay bar segment? You had to have run across that at some point. WWE's depiction of a gay bar was men wearing wigs and dresses over jeans and t-shirts, because gay = extremely lazy drag/trans I guess.

collocation
Jun 17, 2018



sticklefifer posted:

When was that APA gay bar segment? You had to have run across that at some point. WWE's depiction of a gay bar was men wearing wigs and dresses over jeans and t-shirts, because gay = extremely lazy drag/trans I guess.

I rewatched it just now here: [video type="youtube"]jW6AqbNvTe8[/video

It had Billy and Chuck, so it was a couple years before I started writing this stuff down, but I definitely remembered it. The joke that they were so dumb they thought that it was a night for them because it was "men's night" at the Friendly Tap was probably the closest to funny that they got. This actually happened, sans the men's night part, to my conservative step-Grandfather in the 70's, when my extremely liberal Mother picked a random bar that looked cool for them to go to in Chicago after an Opera. There was a drag show, he sang a song at the piano, and was much nicer when hit on.

Aside from that half-joke, the skit was pretty weak, otherwise. Someone with a beard and a very ugly dress wants to dance with Bradshaw, but he can't because he's "from Texas." Then the person in the dress asks what is wrong with them, says that they like themselves, that their mom likes them, and that their mom says that they are a good dancer. They start stamping their feet and yelling, and this serves as a distraction that allows Billy and Chuck to sneak in and beat APA up which, I guess, was probably the best possible ending to what was transpiring, I think.

Speaking of Billy and Chuck, it still amazes me to this day that they got GLAAD to positively promote their wedding because they somehow thought that it would be a positive and real thing. People obviously really wanted representation, but it would have been good if they watched some of the show beforehand, or even read the spoilers since the wedding episode was taped:

https://www.outsports.com/2013/3/4/4064614/glaad-we-were-lied-to

We supported the representation of Billy & Chuck, NOT the called-off wedding. The WWE lied to us two months ago when they promised that Billy & Chuck would come out and wed on the air. In fact, I was told (lied to) the day after the show was taped in Minneapolis that the wedding took place and all was well.

The WWE also lied to The Today Show, the New York Times and other media outlets. Many have contacted me to express their disdain for a the WWE's unprofessional marketing machine.

Before the wedding, Billy and Chuck were a welcomed departure from the stereotypical, often-victimized gay wrestlers of the past. Instead of yelling anti-gay epithets at the handsome couple, audiences cheered their engagement. Their television appearances, while entertaining, also enlightened viewers: Closeted gay teenagers across the country could feel less alone when they watch 'Smackdown!' and potential gay bashers could learn that we are everywhere.

GLAAD even congratulated Billy & Chuck on their wedding and Matt Lauer presented them (on behalf of GLAAD) with a gravy boat from Pottery Barn for the occasion. (They were not registered there, as the Outsports story originally said. It was simply my idea to send them a wedding gift).

Following the news of what really happened, we released the following statement:

"If their behavior is any indication, Billy and Chuck are in denial about who they really are -- two gay men who love each other. The couple's actions of affection speak louder than their words of denial. At GLAAD, we know how hard it is for people in the spot light to come out -- but when Billy and Chuck are ready to let themselves be who they really are, we'll be there to support them."

sticklefifer
Nov 11, 2003

TOO EASY

Clearly AEW needs to sign Chucky P out of retirement so they can finally have a real go at it.

The thing is, I remember Billy Gunn having at least bi tendencies on TV, because there was the time he and Torrie had a foursome with Noble and Nidia and they were all in bed together.

Hedgehog Pie
May 19, 2012

Total fuckin' silence.

The thing that always gets me about that GLAAD press release is that, no, WWE crowds were really not cheering Billy and Chuck coming out. They were booing them, because they were icky gays, and you can hear this in the wedding segment even.

EDIT: Because they were heels for being gay.

Hedgehog Pie fucked around with this message at 04:41 on Apr 3, 2021

Vagabundo
Mar 20, 2007

Ya like Little Wayne?


sticklefifer posted:

When was that APA gay bar segment? You had to have run across that at some point. WWE's depiction of a gay bar was men wearing wigs and dresses over jeans and t-shirts, because gay = extremely lazy drag/trans I guess.

APA: Ew gays.

Also the APA:

collocation
Jun 17, 2018



Vagabundo posted:

Also the APA:

That's such a beautiful shirt. There are places that I would actually wear that. Though, not at a wrestling show.

---

ROH All Star Xtravaganza II 12/04/04:

Homicide yells at a fan that they are a <c***s****r>

---

Smackdown 12/09/04:

"Theodore R Long, you are a piece of human garbage. You, Theodore R Long, is why affirmative action has not nor will ever work." - JBL

---

I actually didn't include something that happened shortly after Long was made GM because, while I thought that it was at least adjacent to the topic, which was the lowest bar for inclusion, it was pretty convoluted. I copied what was said and wrote a bit about it, but I was afraid that it would be too contentious since the actual statement wasn't something that it would be bad for a person to genuinely say and believe if they were in Long's position. As the topic has sort of come up in a peripheral way, I'm going to include it now:

Smackdown 07/29/04:

"That first black stuff went out in 1985. Vince didn't select me because I'm black" - Theodore Long to Kurt Angle when he mentions that he is the first black GM. Obviously, there is nothing wrong with the latter statement, but the point of having Theodore say that black people doing things for the first time went out in 1985 is a part of Vince's view that racism is over and people who complain about it are whiners.

I found it somewhat ironic, among other things, because I was watching it around the same time that WWE was seeming to make somewhat of a big deal about first accomplishments for black wrestlers with the Royal Rumble and one of the possible Mania mains nearly 17 years later. They have obviously reversed themselves regarding groups of people celebrating first accomplishments, both with what is going on with the Smackdown women's title match, and far more so, making a big deal every time female wrestlers do anything new, despite the fact that the only thing holding back the women wrestlers (and black wrestlers, for that matter) was Vince and his employees. I imagine that it is somewhat of a sign of the times, but also a way for them to babyface themselves, as if they are the good guys for supposedly now treating the sexes equally.

Having the heel, a heel whose other political statements seem to be in line with who Vince supports politically, and what he seems to think, take a crap on affirmative action, seems like another way for Vince to say that people who belong to groups who have been the historical victims of bigotry don't deserve any special treatment to compensate them or equalize things. It's very much the "it's over now, so you need to get over it" mindset.

People who would know, like Dave Meltzer, have said that MLK is genuinely a hero of Vince's. I'm sure that Vince sees himself as being against racism, even as he books black wrestlers in stereotypical ways and in racist storylines. While everyone has their biases, there are very few people who actually want to see themselves as being bigots. Given his actions, I very much doubt that Vince studied the man or would have even been receptive to much of what King spoke about had he done so. Instead, it seems that Vince most likely took the message that many of us were taught in the 80's and 90's in bad history classes, that racism was a bad thing from the past, and that MLK took care of it. Of course, while King obviously helped bend the arc of moral justice to some extent, King would have been the last person to think that he had eliminated bigotry. (I strongly recommend Taylor Branch's trilogy on King for a broad telling of the story of King and the times he lived in.)

Instead, as he has shown time and time again with how he has booked angles pertaining to race, Vince obviously thinks that reverse racism is a genuine problem, and as I've noted before, that the people who complain about racism are the bad people. This makes me feel that, no matter how many strides WWE makes with eliminating some of their most blatant bigotry and pushing a diverse crew of wrestlers, WWE will always trip on their own dick with stuff like the current Crews angle, and that there is little hope for an even playing field as long as Vince holds power.

(Sorry for being so verbose. For the most part, I just note what people do and avoid editorializing, but I've been formalizing my thoughts on this topic while focusing on it as I've gone along, and I felt like it might be worth sharing a more big picture view.)

collocation fucked around with this message at 18:30 on Apr 3, 2021

collocation
Jun 17, 2018



This was interesting.

ROH Final Battle 12/26/04:

"You know what I was doing at Raw, aside from taking part in one of the most offensive, tasteless, racially charged angles in recent years?" - Foley commenting on his recent interaction with Hassan on Raw, and seemingly on the larger Hassan angle in general.

collocation
Jun 17, 2018



Raw 12/27/04:

Hassan talks about a Cornell poll that says that at least half of all Americans think that the civil rights of Arab-Americans should be limited. It was actually 44%, but it was a real poll available at the domain that he specified that I was still able to find to link below. He points out that these are the very same liberties guaranteed in the constitution. The crowd responds by chanting USA and booing him. The poll in question appears to be this one:

https://news.cornell.edu/stories/2004/12/44-americans-favor-curtailing-some-muslim-liberties

collocation
Jun 17, 2018



TNA Impact 12/31/04:

Hall and Nash close out 2004 as I take a short Mania overload inspired break:

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Animal-Mother
Feb 14, 2012

RABBIT RABBIT
RABBIT RABBIT

Hall looks like Jim Jones there.

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