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collocation
Jun 17, 2018



Vagabundo posted:

In all fairness, it probably turned out for the best for him that he got out of the business.

Also, the "I am evil foreign man now I will talk evil foreign language, for I am evil and foreign and therefore doubly evil" really is a trope that needs to gently caress off already.

I'm looking into him and watching some of this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBTT7yOwi7M

It's amazing that he _still_ isn't 40. He was 22 for his debut (and Daivari was 20). He was so young and had such poise. It's really cool that he was able to have an entire (more) decent career after the business as a principal.

According to this interview, people on the back of a plane were calling their families and telling them that they loved them because he was on the plane wearing his in character clothing while travelling for WWE and they were afraid. This interview is pretty fascinating.

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El Gallinero Gros
Mar 17, 2010



collocation posted:

I'm looking into him and watching some of this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBTT7yOwi7M

It's amazing that he _still_ isn't 40. He was 22 for his debut (and Daivari was 20). He was so young and had such poise. It's really cool that he was able to have an entire (more) decent career after the business as a principal.

According to this interview, people on the back of a plane were calling their families and telling them that they loved them because he was on the plane wearing his in character clothing while travelling for WWE and they were afraid. This interview is pretty fascinating.

There was a lot of backstage heat with him. The weirdest heat came indirectly with Eddie Guerrero. The version I heard was that someone approached him and asked if he knew who innovated the Camel Clutch, he'd thought it was the Iron Sheik, it was actually Eddie's dad Gory.

I guess the idea was he should have approached Eddie about making sure it was alright, but personally it kinda sounds like an excuse to give him poo poo, especially since Gory never worked for either of the Vinces to my knowledge.

There was another incident with a vet being directly angry with him in one case, but I don't remember the details. I know Daivari buried him after Copani was cut. Might have been told to by management.

I also thought it was curious that they had an Italian guy playing an Arab, but there's a long history of that in entertainment, unfortunately.

El Gallinero Gros fucked around with this message at 11:34 on Mar 24, 2021

sleep with the vicious
Apr 2, 2010


The Board is saying Peacock is editing wwe content, for example the blackface at WrestleMania 6 and McMahon saying the n word at Survivor series 2005. If they're going to upload the entire WWE Network archive they have a lot of work to start doing...

DJExile
Jun 27, 2007



That is going to be a goddamn Sisyphean task if ever there was one

El Gallinero Gros
Mar 17, 2010



DJExile posted:

That is going to be a goddamn Sisyphean task if ever there was one

The attitude Era is going give an editor a stroke or something

WatermelonGun
May 7, 2009



sleep with the vicious posted:

The Board is saying Peacock is editing wwe content, for example the blackface at WrestleMania 6 and McMahon saying the n word at Survivor series 2005. If they're going to upload the entire WWE Network archive they have a lot of work to start doing...

there’s only 3 ecw ppvs and no ecw tv so that tracks

Vandar
Sep 13, 2007

Isn't That Right, Chairman?







sleep with the vicious posted:

The Board is saying Peacock is editing wwe content, for example the blackface at WrestleMania 6 and McMahon saying the n word at Survivor series 2005. If they're going to upload the entire WWE Network archive they have a lot of work to start doing...

Bix is having a fun time with this.

https://twitter.com/davidbix/status/1374761235183509504?s=20
https://twitter.com/davidbix/status/1374765545824862211
https://twitter.com/davidbix/status/1374762693824016384

davidbix
Jun 14, 2016

Wow, Bix. First K.Rool, then Steve and now SEPHIROTH? Your dream game is real!


This is going to be an interesting adventure.

collocation
Jun 17, 2018



DJExile posted:

That is going to be a goddamn Sisyphean task if ever there was one

Unless they come up with specific guidelines, it's going to be almost impossible for some random employees to work it out for themselves, and even then, there will be hundreds or thousands of edge cases. I often second guess what to include here, and this is just a random thread on a lowkey forum, not an erasure of content in a situation where people on both sides will likely end up angry. And, I'm not doing the "golden" era where commentators pretty much said something racist and/or made pedophile jokes about actual pedophiles on nearly every show.

As I mentioned in the WWE thread, they have already been inconsistent with what they upload in the new retro content, unless they consider someone trying to pass as a caricature of a Chinese person

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZv61eoDH28

better than someone wearing (half) blackface for whatever the gently caress reason Piper is claiming here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjbpjAoJDbI

I'm pretty surprised that they didn't go for a disclaimer on anything before 2010 or something, and just wash their hands. I feel bad for whoever gets underpaid to do do this.

---

I just watched Pritchard on Hassan. Pritchard is pretty scummy, but this quote is rather honest:

"We were going out to exploit that, we were going out to exploit the fears of everyone in America, all over the world. And just exploit the racist views, the prejudices, and the real life feelings that were happening on every single corner of the earth."

davidbix
Jun 14, 2016

Wow, Bix. First K.Rool, then Steve and now SEPHIROTH? Your dream game is real!


El Gallinero Gros posted:

There was a lot of backstage heat with him. The weirdest heat came indirectly with Eddie Guerrero. The version I heard was that someone approached him and asked if he knew who innovated the Camel Clutch, he'd thought it was the Iron Sheik, it was actually Eddie's dad Gory.

I guess the idea was he should have approached Eddie about making sure it was alright, but personally it kinda sounds like an excuse to give him poo poo, especially since Gory never worked for either of the Vinces to my knowledge.
IIRC, Eddy used the Camel Clutch in a match and Copani, who wanted to protect his finish, talked to him about it. (I don't remember ever hearing that he was an rear end about it; also, you would think that the protection of finishers in WWE had been drilled into him at some point.) Eddy got angry and then the whole "Do you even KNOW who invented your finish?" thing happened.

collocation
Jun 17, 2018



davidbix posted:

This is going to be an interesting adventure.

There were still a variety of Terry Garvin school of defense jokes on the network back when I watched that era. It was actually one of the few things that surprised me, given that it gave an impression of potential complicity.

davidbix posted:

IIRC, Eddy used the Camel Clutch in a match and Copani, who wanted to protect his finish, talked to him about it. (I don't remember ever hearing that he was an rear end about it; also, you would think that the protection of finishers in WWE had been drilled into him at some point.) Eddy got angry and then the whole "Do you even KNOW who invented your finish?" thing happened.

Angle got in his ear about it:

https://www.wrestlinginc.com/news/2016/02/muhammad-hassan-first-full-interview-in-years-heat-in-wwe-607505/

collocation fucked around with this message at 18:30 on Mar 24, 2021

El Gallinero Gros
Mar 17, 2010



I'm glad Eddie let it go.

And gently caress Angle for doing that.

sticklefifer
Nov 11, 2003

TOO EASY

I'm surprised Peacock doesn't just go the Warner/Disney route with putting a disclaimer up front about how these were depicting different times and are not their current views. It seems like that goes a long way with most people; that way the product gets blamed, not the network for showing it.

El Gallinero Gros posted:

I also thought it was curious that they had an Italian guy playing an Arab, but there's a long history of that in entertainment, unfortunately.
Better or worse than an Italian guy playing "Crying Indian" in the anti-litter PSA?

Pope Corky the IX
Dec 18, 2006

What are you looking at?

sticklefifer posted:

I'm surprised Peacock doesn't just go the Warner/Disney route with putting a disclaimer up front about how these were depicting different times and are not their current views. It seems like that goes a long way with most people; that way the product gets blamed, not the network for showing it.

I think it’s because that would be disingenuous as the WWF/E was actually trying to be offensive with something like the DX/Nation skit. There’s a difference between 1935 and 1998 when it comes to “We didn’t know any better” regarding a ring full of white guys in blackface.

El Gallinero Gros
Mar 17, 2010



sticklefifer posted:

I'm surprised Peacock doesn't just go the Warner/Disney route with putting a disclaimer up front about how these were depicting different times and are not their current views. It seems like that goes a long way with most people; that way the product gets blamed, not the network for showing it.

Better or worse than an Italian guy playing "Crying Indian" in the anti-litter PSA?

Definitely worse. At least the Cody Iron Eyes ad had a noble goal.

Benne
Sep 2, 2011

STOP DOING HEROIN

sticklefifer posted:

I'm surprised Peacock doesn't just go the Warner/Disney route with putting a disclaimer up front about how these were depicting different times and are not their current views. It seems like that goes a long way with most people; that way the product gets blamed, not the network for showing it.

The problem with this is that you can't really play the "we didn't know racism was bad sorry guys " game with segments from loving 2004. WWE knew exactly what they were doing with poo poo like the Mexicools and Muhammad Hassan, and many of those same people are still in charge today.

When the heir apparent of the company is doing blackface skits in 1998, you don't have any room to make excuses.

collocation
Jun 17, 2018



Pope Corky the IX posted:

I think it’s because that would be disingenuous as the WWF/E was actually trying to be offensive with something like the DX/Nation skit. There’s a difference between 1935 and 1998 when it comes to “We didn’t know any better” regarding a ring full of white guys in blackface.

That's a good point.

It would also be hard to put up a disclaimer when they're still doing stuff like Crews.

And the 30 Rock and Office precedents would probably make it harder to justify not removing them:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/06/24/pulling-30-rocks-blackface-episodes-is-worse-than-meaningless/

https://comicbook.com/tv-shows/news/the-office-edited-censored-blackface-christmas-episode-netflix-peacock/

In a 2012 piece of content still available for some at https://watch.wwe.com/watch/The-Top-100-Moments-in-Raw-History-12369, they listed the Nation sketch as the #7 moment in the history of Raw (see https://www.wrestlinginc.com/news/2012/11/full-content-listing-for-wwe-top-100-raw-moments-in-history-558167/). I wonder if they will forget to remove this when uploading, if they will skip uploading it to the network at all, if they will come up with another #7, or if they will just skip #7.

WWE was still proud of that poo poo pretty recently. It wasn't just acceptable, but it was apparently among the greatest things ever.

sticklefifer
Nov 11, 2003

TOO EASY

Benne posted:

The problem with this is that you can't really play the "we didn't know racism was bad sorry guys " game with segments from loving 2004. WWE knew exactly what they were doing with poo poo like the Mexicools and Muhammad Hassan, and many of those same people are still in charge today.

When the heir apparent of the company is doing blackface skits in 1998, you don't have any room to make excuses.
That makes sense, but I'm referring more to Peacock distancing themselves from the content, since they didn't create it.

The 90s was the era of crash TV with Springer and Stern where people aired shocking content just for attention, and even the 00s had shows like Jackass. Peacock could feasibly air this stuff unedited by saying something like "We didn't make this, we're just the delivery vehicle" prior to the most offensive content. All any company really has to do nowadays is provide one degree of separation, and then if the consumer doesn't accept that, that's on them.

Animal-Mother
Feb 14, 2012

RABBIT RABBIT
RABBIT RABBIT

Triple H said Chyna is hard to put in the hall of fame because of certain lewd videos of her out there.

Even videos which co-star this guy, who has like three hall of fame rings:

Pope Corky the IX
Dec 18, 2006

What are you looking at?

The Chyna thing is absolute bullshit because they were begging women to accidentally go topless for years during the Attitude era and a bit afterwards. Jacqueline and Miss Kitty(?) did it, so did Mae Young, but plenty of others were asked. And they promoted several Playboy issues that featured the women to the point that there were several feuds.

collocation
Jun 17, 2018



Pope Corky the IX posted:

The Chyna thing is absolute bullshit because they were begging women to accidentally go topless for years during the Attitude era and a bit afterwards. Jacqueline and Miss Kitty(?) did it, so did Mae Young, but plenty of others were asked. And they promoted several Playboy issues that featured the women to the point that there were several feuds.

Also, HHH using his kids specifically as the reason, after the amount of far worse poo poo that HHH and WWE exposed everyone's loving kids to is kind of galling. As if only his kids matter. I don't usually get all "but the kids" about adult content geared towards adults that parents should keep their kids away from. However, WWE's intended (but failed) primary demo is supposed to be kids right now. Just merely looking at the last few days, what does coding Alexa as a child while having her act sexual say to those kids?

---

Roh Weekend of Thunder Night 1 11/05/04:

Cm Punk refers to Roderick Strong's "freaky <r****d> strength"

---

ROH Weekend of Thunder Night 2 11/06/04:

"That <w***e> just kissed Nigel McGuinness." - Cm Punk

"Well, she's making him feel better, no doubt about that" - Jimmy Bower

"I guess squashing all the rumors that Nigel McGuinness is gay as well." - Cm Punk

"I haven't heard those rumors, Punk." - Jimmy Bower

"You're the one who told me about 'em!" - Cm Punk

---

"Why does that girl got rope coming from her head? What is she from Africa? What is this?" - CM Punk on the future Angelina Luv's dreadlocks

---

I don't actually normally cover misogyny with these posts because transcribing JBL's border phase was time consuming enough, and I don't want to write a 50,000 page novel for every Raw that has Jerry Lawler on it, but it was part of the context in which CM Punk joked about Nigel's sexuality. That said, since I'm on the subject to some extent, Prince Nana made Angelina Luv get on her hands and knees so that Jimmy Rave could step on her back to enter the ring both nights, and that was rather awkward.

Germansimp
May 28, 2013




collocation posted:

That said, since I'm on the subject to some extent, Prince Nana made Angelina Luv get on her hands and knees so that Jimmy Rave could step on her back to enter the ring both nights, and that was rather awkward.

Just wait until you have to see that on every single show that the Embassy is on, just with different women in the role of Jimmy Rave's 'ring steps', that stuff is gonna last a while.

Nick Jr. Face
Apr 23, 2010







I've never seen this slur before (unless it's a typo)

yea ok
Jul 27, 2006



Nick Jr. Face posted:

I've never seen this slur before (unless it's a typo)

Whore

Nick Jr. Face
Apr 23, 2010







Well I feel dumb lol

Pope Corky the IX
Dec 18, 2006

What are you looking at?

collocation posted:

Also, HHH using his kids specifically as the reason, after the amount of far worse poo poo that HHH and WWE exposed everyone's loving kids to is kind of galling. As if only his kids matter. I don't usually get all "but the kids" about adult content geared towards adults that parents should keep their kids away from. However, WWE's intended (but failed) primary demo is supposed to be kids right now. Just merely looking at the last few days, what does coding Alexa as a child while having her act sexual say to those kids?

It's also bullshit because X-Pac has two or three rings and he was in one of those porn films with Chyna.

Hoss Corncave
Feb 13, 2012


collocation posted:

Also, HHH using his kids specifically as the reason, after the amount of far worse poo poo that HHH and WWE exposed everyone's loving kids to is kind of galling. As if only his kids matter. I don't usually get all "but the kids" about adult content geared towards adults that parents should keep their kids away from. However, WWE's intended (but failed) primary demo is supposed to be kids right now. Just merely looking at the last few days, what does coding Alexa as a child while having her act sexual say to those kids?
I wonder if Paul and Stephanie show their kids all of how they hooked up in storyline back in 99?

"I didn't actually rape your mother. It was all a trick so that she and I could get back at your grandfather who eventually sided with us a few months later."

sticklefifer
Nov 11, 2003

TOO EASY

"Now kids, watch as I dry hump a mannequin in a coffin just to troll a burn victim."

davidbix
Jun 14, 2016

Wow, Bix. First K.Rool, then Steve and now SEPHIROTH? Your dream game is real!


I defend Levesque SLIGHTLY on that because the Chyna videos including a WWE parody porn with a McMahons incest theme. Otherwise...yes, hypocritical bullshit.

Benne
Sep 2, 2011

STOP DOING HEROIN

davidbix posted:

I defend Levesque SLIGHTLY on that because the Chyna videos including a WWE parody porn with a McMahons incest theme. Otherwise...yes, hypocritical bullshit.

Maybe they're just mad that she got to do the incest storyline and they couldn't

Pope Corky the IX
Dec 18, 2006

What are you looking at?

Did Gorilla hate kids or something? I didn’t realize just how often he mentioned Mel Philips with feet and socks, or the Terry Garvin School of Self Defense. I thought it was a few lovely jokes, not every goddamn Saturday Night’s Main Event.

disaster pastor
May 1, 2007



Pope Corky the IX posted:

Did Gorilla hate kids or something? I didn’t realize just how often he mentioned Mel Philips with feet and socks, or the Terry Garvin School of Self Defense. I thought it was a few lovely jokes, not every goddamn Saturday Night’s Main Event.

No, he was just a terrible, terrible person.

Pope Corky the IX
Dec 18, 2006

What are you looking at?

It’s just so hosed up to shoehorn that many references to actual ongoing child molestation into wrestling commentary.

sticklefifer
Nov 11, 2003

TOO EASY

I kind of feel like JR's continued "woodshed" comments have a similar vibe on the abusing children front. I get that he's got his JR'isms and he's referencing an old cliche, but I cringe a bit every time he says it.

collocation
Jun 17, 2018



sticklefifer posted:

I kind of feel like JR's continued "woodshed" comments have a similar vibe on the abusing children front. I get that he's got his JR'isms and he's referencing an old cliche, but I cringe a bit every time he says it.

Part of it was just how some (in my opinion, bad) rural parents raised their kids back then, I guess, but JR's story about his dad making him [tw: animal abuse] drown his puppies because he let his dog get pregnant and they wouldn't be able to take care of them told in his book as if it may have been the right thing to make him do creeped the poo poo out of me. I'm glad that I was raised in an era where that was far less likely to happen.

Cavauro
Jan 9, 2008



when jim ross says that kind of stuff it always makes me feel like he's taking me out behind the woodshed

collocation
Jun 17, 2018



CZW Night of Infamy 3 11/14/04:

"Yo, while you was over in Iraq <bl**ing> your fellow soldier dudes, I was over here winning titles" - Sabian to Joker

---

RAW 11/15/04:

Hassan's vignettes have become quite a bit more heel. He blames "you" (the viewer) for his uncle Akbar's store closing, as if there weren't any viewers like him. He also says that he will beat the prejudice out of us, and that he will lead a revolt against his country if need be. At this point, if it wasn't already clear, it's obvious that the viewer is not supposed to identify or sympathize with him.

collocation
Jun 17, 2018



Smackdown 11/18/04:

"He's so soft, he lost a fist fight to the dude from Will and Grace" - Cena referring to Jesus. For younger people or those who avoided pop culture in 2004, the character Will was gay, which was much less common back then on mainstream TV shows.

---

RVD imitated Kenzo's accent while saying his name with "san" appended to the end of it and putting his hands in prayer formation in front of his face. (He was also upside down with his back arched as this was Michelle McCool's non Diva Search debut* as a personal trainer helping people out with stretching.)

*As I've said, I typically don't reference misogyny here due to the sheer volume, but as a random aside, since it's somewhat topical right now with the guy who had the messy fetish charity scam being brought up this week, it seems noteworthy that, as WWE has rushed to debut more than a half dozen people from the Diva Search over the course of a couple of weeks, they have already booked two of them to have food or drink spilled or put on them. This trope of putting things on women(and, seemingly less frequently, during holiday food fights and matches with weird stipulations, on men), up until very recently, was something that seemed to happen far more often in WWE than in any other non-mud wrestling grappling association. It has always given me the impression, whether true or false, that someone high up in the WWE is really into seeing scenes like this, and possibly using the power that they have to book to make sure that they happen frequently.

-----

Smackdown 11/25/04:

Dawn Marie dressed like this in a bout against Miss Jackie called a Pilgrim Vs <Ind**n> match during which Cole referenced Pocahontas vs John Smith:

Nick Jr. Face
Apr 23, 2010







There's an old interview with Alicia Fox where she says she has Native American ancestry and then proceeds to mock them

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Duke Pukem
Oct 23, 2010

Three cheers for dark beer!





why are you censoring the word Indian

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