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aphid_licker posted:Holy poo poo at going for Calcutta Air planes are produced for us in air plane factories, costing HI points which are produced in HI factories for resources and fuel which are produced in resource sites and refineries which require oil which is produced at wells. After that they are delivered to an abstract, off map pool (where they are invincible). For a unit to actually use them as replacements requires them to be within the maximum transfer range of an airbase they share the HQ of and that has at least 20k supplies, or to be themselves at an airbase with 20k supplies. To use them as upgrades requires 20k supplies and a level 6 airfield. The rules are the same for the allies only their air frames are just dropped straight into the pools. Oh and for every frame drawn out of thee pools a quantity of supply is used up, probably proportionate to the engines but I don't know exactly what it is.
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Mar 4, 2021 00:09
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But as you explain it it makes sense.
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do you get any INA troops for taking Calcutta?
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Mar 4, 2021 03:55
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Thanks for the look forward at the plans, Pharnakes
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Mar 4, 2021 06:42
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Pharnakes posted:For a unit to actually use them as replacements requires them to be within the maximum transfer range of an airbase they share the HQ You keep teaching me new and horrifying things about why my goddamn planes just wouldn't receive reinforcements. gently caress. Thank you for making this lp Pharnakes. Win or loose, you have made it both informative and entertaining.
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Mar 4, 2021 07:52
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Pharnakes posted:Air planes are produced for us in air plane factories, costing HI points which are produced in HI factories for resources and fuel which are produced in resource sites and refineries which require oil which is produced at wells. Yikes
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Mar 4, 2021 12:51
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  Oops, it seems the destroyers have not managed to intercept the PT boats tonight.  Superb gunnery from one of our PBs sees them off though.  And then the destroyers catch them.  There’s still a bunch more at Batavia I think but the Semarang transports now have a clear run home.  We get the odd hit at Rangoon.  And we are landing at Midway!  Heavy defensive fire is largely suppressed successfully.  Lots of guns but not too much talk of lots of enemy troops.  As expected there is a brisk CAP at Akyab. Let’s hope they are all down low though.  We do OK at best.  Maybe there isn’t anything here. At least there’s no CAP.  Apparently there is at least one Hudson.  Some stragglers claim another Hurricane over Akyab.  And the first wave at Darwin trades evenly.  There is still significant CAP at Rangoon.  Uhh, very significant apparently.  A second wave gets one kill at least.  Our bombing at Singkawang is unfortunately infectual.  The Oscars claim another Airacobra.  And five Lillies do what thirty Sallies couldn’t, to claim at least some damage at Singkawang.  Oops, I’m pretty sure I set the CAP at Tjepoe to range 2, and the Semarang empties are range three from there   This is going to be painful if even the Martins are hitting.  And the LRCAP isn’t present at Kalidjati either. What’s gone wrong this time.  At least some of them waste their time bombing the port instead.  The only really annoying thing about this is his pilots will be getting good at bombing.  Here come the Banshees   At least they are still at the wrong height.  But they don’t let that slow them down much.  They have some Dauntless stationed at Midway it seems. Midway is too far from Pearl for them to have flown here in reaction, so unless they flew off a carrier they must have been here all along but didn’t have enough spotting yesterday.  The CAP only manages to take out a third of them though, which is rather disappointing.  But they are also at the wrong height!  They are still rude enough to hit a training ship full of cadets.  But apparently the damage isn’t that bad?  Two are going instead for the extras coming from Wake.  Denied.  Ambon again goes poorly for us. Maybe I should take the infantry off bombardment and leave just the explicit artillery unit. Here comes Midway any second now!!  But first we get Singkawang. Well at least we didn't lose any squads but recovering these drop outs will take a while. Those T.IVas are going to be aggravating for a bit longer it seems.  Motherfucker he does have a regiment here. This is not going to go well.  Ayup. We can cut our losses and head for home I think. Oh well.  Uhh.   20% of our ground casualties are a result of Midway. However that’s more an endorsement of our success thus far in limiting our losses than saying anything about the scale of this disaster.  Narrowly ahead in the air but our fighters took a pounding over Burma   Some nasty loses to assorted CAP fuckups there.   We have no choice at Midway but to turn back.  Sorry guys, kick back and enjoy your remaining time on a tropical paradise!  There’s a good chance this “auxiliary, general” is infact an auxiliary, submarine, so we will try to sink that for something at least.  We will try a day of LRCAP again at Lae.  We are going to paradrop onto Sibolga, in the hope of convincing the Medan defenders to surrender rather than run away.
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Mar 4, 2021 19:15
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RIP to those brave crazy SNLF detachments at midway.
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Mar 4, 2021 20:27
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Well at least this midway disaster was nothing like the real life Japanese midway disaster.
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Mar 4, 2021 20:51
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Tiger Crazy posted:Well at least this midway disaster was nothing like the real life Japanese midway disaster. yet
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Mar 5, 2021 00:37
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That's rough. Japanese units just can't fight real, filled out American units, there's too much firepower difference.
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Mar 5, 2021 02:07
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If Parshall and Tully's analysis was right in Shattered Sword, though, this is pretty close to what might've happened to the SNLF force had they tried to land (even assuming that they hadn't gotten schwacked by the carriers). *145* Allied vehicles though, jesus. How many of those were Stuart tanks?
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Mar 5, 2021 02:11
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I gotta ask...what was supposed to happen here? Was this a plan to rid yourself of your greatest enemy, the IJA? Except aren't those naval regiments? So did the IJA lead you into this trap!?
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Mar 5, 2021 02:25
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bibliosabreur posted:If Parshall and Tully's analysis was right in Shattered Sword, though, this is pretty close to what might've happened to the SNLF force had they tried to land (even assuming that they hadn't gotten schwacked by the carriers). It's the Marine battalion that would have had those tanks, though I think it wouldn't have been that many - I assume a lot of those vehicles are construction equipment from the base force
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Mar 5, 2021 03:00
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gradenko_2000 posted:It's the Marine battalion that would have had those tanks, though I think it wouldn't have been that many - I assume a lot of those vehicles are construction equipment from the base force Or jeeps and trucks that are part of the infantry regiment. If there were Stuarts actually fighting, I think we'd at least see some vehicles disabled as a part of it.
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Mar 5, 2021 03:37
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Yeah it's one of the ways in which WitP is infuriatingly detailed and yet vague at the same time - a 'gun' can be anything from a mortar up to a siege howitzer, a vehicle can be a jeep or a T34.
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Mar 5, 2021 10:42
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gohuskies posted:Or jeeps and trucks that are part of the infantry regiment. If there were Stuarts actually fighting, I think we'd at least see some vehicles disabled as a part of it. Lol no we wouldn't. Like I said at the start, this was a pure gamble on the basis he might have been funnelling everything he had into his forward defence of the DEI and, with us being so quiet in the pacific, have omitted to reinforce Midway. If that infantry regiment wasn't there we would have taken it easily. Alchenar posted:Yeah it's one of the ways in which WitP is infuriatingly detailed and yet vague at the same time - a 'gun' can be anything from a mortar up to a siege howitzer, a vehicle can be a jeep or a T34. Don't forget HMGs, and even some LMGs are guns too!
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Mar 5, 2021 10:59
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  It is with considerable trepidation that I am loading this turn up. If he catches the CVLs with their planes on port strike At least he can’t do anything too bad to the KB in Singapore? Right???  We start off innocently enough.  Not much CAP at Akyab.  Well gently caress me sideways. Let this be an omen for the rest of the day and not us having used all our luck already   The sweep is late at Madioen and the Liz pay a heavy price.  Get out of bed before 10:00 next time you lazy fucks.  We miss whatever is at Midway, if indeed there is anything to miss.  Rangoon goes better for us today though.  Much better.  Darwin however doesn’t.  At least the LRCAP is functioning at Kalidjati today.  Well, kinda. The bombers still get through.  Some Martins go for a more distant convoy.  One last heroic Zero manages to chase off six Hudsons, downing one in the process.  CAP in general is having a hard time intercepting today. I am becoming increasingly convinced we are about to lose three CVLs.  All these small raids is just drawing out the agony. Get it over with already   The Banshees go for a target close to Tjepoe with a decent CAP up.  And they inflict heavy attrition on the bombers.  They still manage to plant a 1000lber in a precious large cargo though  Four Betties are out on the hunt south of Rabaul.  Please please please let this just be the first wave.  Another wave from the CVLs hits not much.  The L-212 are back at Kalidjati, but so is the CAP.  They are chased off without incident.  They come into the CAP trap. How this is going to workI have no idea, I have no clue what altitude the Skyockets are at. They might be up at 35k feet for all we can tell.  Hahaha, they aren’t though!  Not a bad trade.  More Betties are coming in.   Let’s hope those were 155s and Shermans.  Another four line up on a destroyer. Could that mean we sank all the transports?  Ambon. The CVLs are safe. I don't’ think he can spring anything too horrible on us in the ground phase. The worst he could do would be to counter attack our over extended armour at soerabaja.  Just the non event my heart needs right now.  We find ourselves unopposed at Sibolga, which is good because that's not nearly as many men dropped as I thought there was going to be.   That's nearly as many Army points for him at Port Moresby today as we lost at Midway yesterday.  And we did what I would call pretty loving good in the air.  Not so great here, but all three of those were already hit yesterday and essentially doomed.  We’ve got away with it today, but who knows when carriers might pop up. I decide we can’t risk everyone to cover Kinugasa and split her off with the equally crippled Kashima.  We have 1300 assault at Soerabaja and are ready to attack. We have also caught up with our armour at Djokjakarta, and will be attacking there. The armour however will be heading east at top speed through Soerakarta to Madioen, leaving the infantry to attack.  At the other end of Java we have had a change of strategy. There were already too many men at Bandoeng for us to take when we arrived, and now there are far more with even more on the way. If he wants to dig in there we will let him, surround them and then bottle them up with a relatively small force while we take the rest of the troops somewhere else for what is left of March.  We have reached Medan from the south, but not yet from the north, so we will content ourselves with a barrage for tomorrow.  The Ceylon invasion steams into the setting sun.  The moonlight is fading and I feel the CAP at Rangoon is now sufficiently depleted we can start day bombing again.  I put the Betties at Rabaul on training so they don’t suicide into the CAP at Port Morseby tomorrow chasing whatever is left of that convoy.
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Mar 5, 2021 20:46
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Are you sending the KB to escort the Ceylon invasion or having them hang out at Singapore awhile longer?
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Mar 5, 2021 21:29
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They are returning to readiness after temporary repairs and will catch up in a day or two.
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Mar 5, 2021 21:41
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I like to imagine that this game has both of you going "I'm losing this war so badly" at the same time, between your Ceylon excursion and his pilot's CVL blindness.
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Mar 5, 2021 22:12
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SIGSEGV posted:I like to imagine that this game has both of you going "I'm losing this war so badly" at the same time, between your Ceylon excursion and his pilot's CVL blindness. The old trope of a good deal is one where both parties are dissatisfied.
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Mar 5, 2021 22:50
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WitP is nothing if not good at giving you a persecution complex.
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Mar 6, 2021 10:16
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  He is apparently rather annoyed we can see everything in the New Hebrides.  They missed the flying boats, whatever.  The destroyers bump into another PT boat off Batavia. Let's see if they will spot it though.  Not only do they spot it, they hit it.  A ton of missions across South East Asia are scrubbed because of the weather, but a sweep makes it over to Madioen.  That’ll do, pig.  Generally speaking, when the sweep calls it off it’s a good idea for the bombers to call it off too  At least the weather is so bad the Hurricanes only manage to make contact with one Nell.  Wave two however is completely annihilated.  Some sweep decided to fly after all then.  This is scarce consolation.  The main raid at least has clear skies.  Well, clear of aircraft. The thunderstorms are still very much here.  The weather over Java is better, but they fail to score any hits on our xAP tied up at Kalidjati.  Next they are trying at Tjepoe.  There should be more CAP here than that, but thankfully as we all know Hudsons are a minimal threat.  Hah, made you sweep! Our Zero pilots are having a well earned rest today.  I’m not quite sure why we didn’t see anything of these fighters at Midway before.  The lucky ones here are those who are already dead. The rest will be joining them soon enough.  Argh. At least they miss today.  And they bomb Salamua instead of Lae.  Medan shouldn’t take too long. I’m quite smug about preventing him from linking up all his troops on Sumatra though.  Ambon, Ambon never changes.  The defences at Soerabaja are pretty light.  Very light. And dead Catalinas, my favourite Catalinas.  I should have just attacked with the armour here at Djokjakarta days ago. loving recon pilots insisting there were 6k men here.  It seems he is intent on prolonging the suffering of our men here.   Huh maybe it wasn’t as bad in the air as I thought.  Infact if the Army hadn’t deliberately let all those navy bombers get shot down this would have been a very good day.  Something’s better than nothing.  We might have taken Soerabaja without much fighting but we rolled unbelievably badly on capturing the facilities, not just badly but quite literally the worst possible outcome, everything is trashed, 100% of the oil and 99.9% of everything else. The shipyard is 1/48 functional, the heavy industry 1/32, the light 1/80, you get the idea. gently caress. The only buits worth repairing are the oil and maybe the heavy industry, but that’s 350k of supplies alone. For reference our entire war industry is worth 28k supplies a day, and that’s raw production. By the time you deduct upkeep we’re lucky if we have 20k supplies a day to use. Getting kind of tired of the game loving us this hard at every turn. Seriously, I’ve seen multiple divisions fight over a hex for weeks and the damage comes out way less than this. I’ve never seen a hex be obliterated like this before.   It looks like we have our next wolfpack opportunity.  Here is the road network on Java, dark is major road pink is minor road. Thanks to the minor road on the coast between Djokjakarta and Tjilatjpa it is actually quicker to march back to Semarang and round than straight down the coast. I send one infantry brigade to chase the survivors from Djokjakarta on though.  We are going to put a giant LRCAP over the convoy tomorrow to try and catch those loving Fokkers.  And we load up at Balikpapan for a beachhead at Oosthaven. Actually taking Palembang will have to wait until we are finished with Java.
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Mar 6, 2021 19:20
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80-Sally-attack was awesome 
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Mar 6, 2021 20:06
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Pharnakes posted:We might have taken Soerabaja without much fighting but we rolled unbelievably badly on capturing the facilities, not just badly but quite literally the worst possible outcome, everything is trashed, 100% of the oil and 99.9% of everything else. Oof. Is this something that Alikchi could have done - preemptive burning or whatever? Or is it genuinely just a single roll on capture that hit the 1% low end? What's the effort->return balance here? Is there an argument that it's all just a write-off because the cost to fix the oil/industry won't be recouped during the expected timeframe you'll be uncontested on Java?
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Mar 6, 2021 20:47
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Rather than having a fierce rivalry with the IJN or IJA you seem to instead have a ferocious rivalry with the forces of probability.
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Mar 6, 2021 20:52
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Ow, keep getting nailed over on all those RNG's. Sorry on that. It worth it ot fix up the oil or not? But I guess as Japan you need the oil pretty badly.
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Mar 6, 2021 23:38
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In yet another example of WitP's bizarre design philosophy every facility costs a flat 1000 supplies to repair, so everything from a resource site representing mines and farms to an aircraft factory or an oil well. In terms of return, HI produces 2 supplies a day, so a 500 day payoff, LI 1 supply and refineries 1 supply, so 1000 day payoffs. Given the absolute most a game can last is 1,634 turns it is immediately obvious that repairing damage to light industry is never going to be worth it. The others are a but more complicated. HI has a decent chance, this early in the game anyway, so paying itself off and more, but unlike LI which produces only supply, it is also required to produce HI points for all our other production. SO the decision to repair it or not is more than just can it be reasonably expected to stay intact and fuelled for more than 500 turns. Likewise since we need fuel to run our ships and our HI, we have to pay the costs for the oil even though the game might well not last 1000 turns. Refineries are different again - there is no point having a refinery surplus, and since the Home Islands have significant refineries but no significant oil production, the traditional answer is to repair the oil but not bother with the refineries, keeping the fuel produced by the surviving refineries in the DEI for tactical use and shipping the surplus oil home. However this assumes an average of around 30% damage to facilities, whereas we are running something like 80% all told. So we might well be forced to repair quite a large chunk of refineries, since there is no point in accumulating unrefined oil points either.
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Mar 7, 2021 00:55
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I am simultaneously very sorry for our situation and extremely amused at this extreme-high-fidelity simulation
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Mar 7, 2021 01:27
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Pharnakes posted:In yet another example of WitP's bizarre design philosophy every facility costs a flat 1000 supplies to repair, so everything from a resource site representing mines and farms to an aircraft factory or an oil well. Ugh, that's awful - have you talked to Alikchi about this at all? I'm not sure if Japan can handle these massive early RNG setbacks, and it's going to be loving awful to know you're in a losing position by mid-'42 and still have to grind out four more years of playing. It's not like this was anything that you or he did in particular, this is just real poo poo luck that's compounding on your other poo poo luck in not finishing off major ships.
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Mar 7, 2021 05:40
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I thought damage wasn't entirely random, it was determined by the number of engineers that were there when the facility was taken.
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Mar 7, 2021 06:41
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Advancing Japanese army deploys an experimental nuclear device to intimidate the Allies into an early surrender, this mod is wild.
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Mar 7, 2021 08:54
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orangelex44 posted:Ugh, that's awful - have you talked to Alikchi about this at all? I'm not sure if Japan can handle these massive early RNG setbacks, and it's going to be loving awful to know you're in a losing position by mid-'42 and still have to grind out four more years of playing. It's not like this was anything that you or he did in particular, this is just real poo poo luck that's compounding on your other poo poo luck in not finishing off major ships. As TheDemon said, it is a roll modified by the number of engineers present. However, we can see from the combat report there were no extra units present at Soerabaja from normal, so yes we still got screwed by the RNG, as usual. I can't deny there's been a few occasions when I was on the verge of rage quitting, particularly around Indomitable, and if it wasn't for the LP I might have. Probably not though, my attitude is WitP is a story generator like DF, and as such losing can be fun because that's just another story. Also of course as Japan I have no real expectation of wining in the first place. Now I can't remember exactly when it started (we are no into the second week of April in game) but around this time I started noticing that the Japanese economy doesn't work. In our rush to play the game we omitted to check if there were sufficient resource sites around to fuel the industry, and, spoiler, it turns out there aren't. We had a long saga over several weeks of trying to fix this in an ongoing game, but the tldr of it is we eventual fixed it, and at the end, Alikchi casually mentioned he added an automatic "offmap" 10k supply a turn to Fusan. So that will compensate just nicely for the repair bill here, although the most funny thing about it is the disgusting allied privileged it displays in that he thinks 10k supplies a turn is a minor nothing he can casually give us and not actually a ~40% increase in our war industry  I might point this out to him and suggest it is removed in a while once we have fixed up the SRA, we will see how it goes.
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Mar 7, 2021 11:31
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Oh yeah, The Allies get effectively infinite supply from the US East Coast and through the UK, the only limiting factor on them is convoy capacity and moving the supplies into theatre.
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Mar 7, 2021 12:18
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orangelex44 posted:Ugh, that's awful - have you talked to Alikchi about this at all? I'm not sure if Japan can handle these massive early RNG setbacks, and it's going to be loving awful to know you're in a losing position by mid-'42 and still have to grind out four more years of playing. It's not like this was anything that you or he did in particular, this is just real poo poo luck that's compounding on your other poo poo luck in not finishing off major ships. Well, that's the Japanese position in WW2 for you. Starting a conflict you couldn't possibly win, getting stopped in a decisive action straight out of your Kantai Kassen-doctrine and fighting a brutal retreat fighting for every island on the way until your ultimate defeat with the home-islands being pounded from the air and sea and an allied invasion looming ahead.
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Mar 7, 2021 13:57
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Pharnakes posted:at the end, Alikchi casually mentioned he added an automatic "offmap" 10k supply a turn to Fusan. So that will compensate just nicely for the repair bill here are you (or Alikchi, rather) capable of editing the scenario in the middle of an on-going save game? that's... interesting
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Mar 7, 2021 14:01
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Well, I can tell you from what we did that adding Res sites is sometimes possible, sometimes not, who knows why v0v. If they do add successfully though, it needs to be in a location with no resources to start with, otherwise they come in as damaged. Adding of map stuff seems to work just fine though, so in addition to the mentioned 10k supply at Fusan we also have 50k resources coming from various mainland bases.
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Mar 7, 2021 18:10
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There's also at least a chance that all the changes you've been making may have been a cause of some of these unusual RNG results. It doesn't seem like it should matter, but software is a weird beast, and single-threaded ancient grognard software even more so.
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Mar 7, 2021 18:24
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Who knows but I kind of doubt it. It's nothing I haven't seen before, just getting repeatedly hit with it is a bit annoying. I've puled games back from worse luck before, but I was the allies in that one so 
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Mar 7, 2021 18:47
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| # ? Apr 23, 2024 17:48 |
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Out of curiosity, what's your estimated timeline to swap from offense to defense? Or are you planning based on bases conquered instead of the calendar date? Your wiggle room until an alt-history Midway can occur has shrunk a lot since the British carriers are still alive.
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Mar 7, 2021 19:06
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