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Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




The Klowner posted:

This is imo better then the alternative. Give any exec the ability to work sex into a script and more likely than not it will turn into something utterly sexist. You wouldn't want to risk alienating 50% of the audience by experimenting with injecting artistic license into your vacuum-sealed, lab-tested, mass-produced corporate product.

Yeah, it feels like a reaction to blockbusters having just yikes sexual politics for decades til execs realised women have money too.

Also internet porn.

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feedmyleg
Dec 25, 2004

EVERY FAIRY TALE NEEDS ITS HERO.



CelticPredator posted:

Horny is dead. Bonk it.

At this point the thread is just bonking a dead horny.

TrixRabbi
Aug 20, 2010

Time for a little robot chauvinism!



Would be curious if The Rattle has any insight into this, but I've chalked the death of horny up to 1. Family friendly PG-13 movies that are too expensive to risk the kid audience 2. The growing dependence on the international market and the need to make poo poo that's palatable for overseas censors.

Hence, why TV, which can be more reliant on U.S. (or Western) centric adult audiences gets all the horny these days.

KVeezy3
Aug 18, 2005

Airport Music for Black Folk


EDIT: Sorry, wrong thread.

KVeezy3 fucked around with this message at 15:32 on May 3, 2021

caligulamprey
Jan 23, 2007

It never stops.



Horny is still a thing in movies. Didn't you guys see Cats?

Carly Gay Dead Son
Aug 27, 2007

Bonus.


TrixRabbi posted:

Would be curious if The Rattle has any insight into this, but I've chalked the death of horny up to 1. Family friendly PG-13 movies that are too expensive to risk the kid audience 2. The growing dependence on the international market and the need to make poo poo that's palatable for overseas censors.

Hence, why TV, which can be more reliant on U.S. (or Western) centric adult audiences gets all the horny these days.

Those two are both right, but it's not just kids and China. Within the United States, there's no real consensus on "what's healthy/normal sexual behavior." There's literally no way to depict sex in a movie that wouldn't piss off some very vocal demographic of American adults. And that's always been the case, but when you combine it with enormous production costs, it's become too much of a risk. The only future I see is one of increasing Puritanism and the continued erasure of sex from mainstream culture, at least until movie theaters are completely dead, entertainment becomes entirely a private commodity, and all home media will be fed through personalized censors, that use algorithms to analyze your cultural leanings and tailor the film's sociopolitical content accordingly.


I'm kidding, of course. I hope.

FreudianSlippers
Apr 12, 2010

Shooting and Fucking
are the same thing!



Isn't one of the reasons movies started getting horny again in the 60s is because foreign films from countries that weren't bound by the Hayes Code, and could therefore cram as much horniness and nudity as they wanted into every frame, started to become much more prevalent in American cinemas and the Americans needed to drop the code and up the horniness as not to lose the horny race against Johnny Foreigner?

PeterCat
Apr 8, 2020

Believe women.


FreudianSlippers posted:

Isn't one of the reasons movies started getting horny again in the 60s is because foreign films from countries that weren't bound by the Hayes Code, and could therefore cram as much horniness and nudity as they wanted into every frame, started to become much more prevalent in American cinemas and the Americans needed to drop the code and up the horniness as not to lose the horny race against Johnny Foreigner?

https://youtu.be/Rg7I-fVLm7I

FreudianSlippers
Apr 12, 2010

Shooting and Fucking
are the same thing!



Just got the text message. I'm getting the vax day after tomorrow.

Going to lick so many door knobs as soon as I get out.

therattle
Jul 24, 2007

I'm a family man - I run a family business. This is my son and my partner, H.W.


Soiled Meat

TrixRabbi posted:

Would be curious if The Rattle has any insight into this, but I've chalked the death of horny up to 1. Family friendly PG-13 movies that are too expensive to risk the kid audience 2. The growing dependence on the international market and the need to make poo poo that's palatable for overseas censors.

Hence, why TV, which can be more reliant on U.S. (or Western) centric adult audiences gets all the horny these days.

I don't know that much about the studio world but this sounds right, plus this:



Carly Gay Dead Son posted:

Those two are both right, but it's not just kids and China. Within the United States, there's no real consensus on "what's healthy/normal sexual behavior." There's literally no way to depict sex in a movie that wouldn't piss off some very vocal demographic of American adults. And that's always been the case, but when you combine it with enormous production costs, it's become too much of a risk. The only future I see is one of increasing Puritanism and the continued erasure of sex from mainstream culture, at least until movie theaters are completely dead, entertainment becomes entirely a private commodity, and all home media will be fed through personalized censors, that use algorithms to analyze your cultural leanings and tailor the film's sociopolitical content accordingly.


I'm kidding, of course. I hope.


FreudianSlippers posted:

Just got the text message. I'm getting the vax day after tomorrow.

Going to lick so many door knobs as soon as I get out.


FreudianSlippers posted:

Just got the text message. I'm getting the vax day after tomorrow.

Going to lick so many door knobs as soon as I get out.

That's my wife's line! Except she says pub toilet doorknobs.

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

Don't Blink


FreudianSlippers posted:

Just got the text message. I'm getting the vax day after tomorrow.

Going to lick so many door knobs as soon as I get out.

I get the urge, but you need to stay strong: no knobs until three weeks after.

Hand Knit
Oct 24, 2005

Beer Loses more than a game Sunday ...
We lost our Captain, our Teammate, our Friend Kelly Calabro...
Rest in Peace my friend you will be greatly missed..

TrixRabbi posted:

Would be curious if The Rattle has any insight into this, but I've chalked the death of horny up to 1. Family friendly PG-13 movies that are too expensive to risk the kid audience 2. The growing dependence on the international market and the need to make poo poo that's palatable for overseas censors.

Hence, why TV, which can be more reliant on U.S. (or Western) centric adult audiences gets all the horny these days.

Last time the topic came up here someone posted this piece which I found quite good. It situates the lack of horniness in movies in a kind of cult of the body where the body is to be maximized for some kind of physical or economic combat. The body is entirely a tool for generating exchange value and ascending hierarchy. Within that ideology, pleasure is a kind of distraction, almost a weakness of the will.

X-Ray Pecs
May 11, 2008

New York
Ice Cream
TV
Travel
~Good Times~


The Klowner posted:

Godzilla 2014 and Kong skull island were not good!!!

Godzilla 2014 sucks and is boring as hell, Skull Island is a fun romp of a blockbuster that was made by a creep.

X-Ray Pecs
May 11, 2008

New York
Ice Cream
TV
Travel
~Good Times~


I watched La Pointe Courte and Stalker this weekend. Poetic non-English movies own.

Eggnogium
Jun 1, 2010

Never give an inch! Hnnnghhhhhh!

Hand Knit posted:

Last time the topic came up here someone posted this piece which I found quite good. It situates the lack of horniness in movies in a kind of cult of the body where the body is to be maximized for some kind of physical or economic combat. The body is entirely a tool for generating exchange value and ascending hierarchy. Within that ideology, pleasure is a kind of distraction, almost a weakness of the will.

Reminds me of Nolan batmans where Wayne publicly acts horny by gallivanting with models only to disguise his truer, chast-er self.

Carly Gay Dead Son
Aug 27, 2007

Bonus.


Hand Knit posted:

Last time the topic came up here someone posted this piece which I found quite good. It situates the lack of horniness in movies in a kind of cult of the body where the body is to be maximized for some kind of physical or economic combat. The body is entirely a tool for generating exchange value and ascending hierarchy. Within that ideology, pleasure is a kind of distraction, almost a weakness of the will.

I liked this article but it's a little silly to frame our culture's fear of sex as part of some fascist, fatphobic conspiracy. A fat body and a shredded body are equally weaponizeable. And that's why we're becoming more sexless, because everyone, every size and shape, represents a potential threat, and no one knows how to deal with it. It is a good question: why aren't there more fat superheroes who gently caress? Where have all the Dennis Franzes gone? I long for their return. But more and more everyday, for a lot of people, life is just a choice between filling the void in one's soul with mindless consumption, or seeking oblivion through pointless exercise. Will more body-inclusivity in superhero movies fix that? Will it allow us all to love each other enough, to cherish each others' presence, to start loving en masse like in the days of yore? It would be wonderful, but I don't think any shift in movie content could accomplish anything close to that.

CPL593H
Oct 28, 2009

I know what you did last summer, and frankly I am displeased.

FreudianSlippers posted:

Just got the text message. I'm getting the vax day after tomorrow.

Going to lick so many door knobs as soon as I get out.

Yeah, I wouldn't mind licking some knobs right about now.

TrixRabbi
Aug 20, 2010

Time for a little robot chauvinism!



On a similar note, Matt Zoller Seitz had a brief twitter rant yesterday that I broadly agree with in which he was lamenting the lack of visual storytelling in modern films. I.E. It feels like sparingly few directors these days really understand how to use a shot or sequence to convey an idea. Not that every movie from the past was a masterpiece, but it seems even among the most appraised films of any given year there's no longer an image as captivating as the cliff in Black Narcissus, the tennis match in Strangers on a Train, any number of iconic moments you can call back to. Yeah, yeah I'm sure this will invoke a ton of counter examples, but admittedly the striking nature of filmed images feels fleeting in studio films these days, does it not? Even the blocking and close-ups of actors too often comes across as flat, you never see actors moving around in the background living their lives, providing the notion of a lived-in world. Again, this is a studio issue, I'm not talking about independent productions.

The closest I can think of to demonstrate is the new Spielberg West Side Story trailer, and even if it's corny the bird's eye shot of the shadows of the two gangs walking up to each other is evocative in ways that few major movies are anymore.

Skwirl
May 13, 2007

The 'blood babe with the silicone chest, 200-dollar haircut, and a closet full of the latest fashions.




TrixRabbi posted:

On a similar note, Matt Zoller Seitz had a brief twitter rant yesterday that I broadly agree with in which he was lamenting the lack of visual storytelling in modern films. I.E. It feels like sparingly few directors these days really understand how to use a shot or sequence to convey an idea. Not that every movie from the past was a masterpiece, but it seems even among the most appraised films of any given year there's no longer an image as captivating as the cliff in Black Narcissus, the tennis match in Strangers on a Train, any number of iconic moments you can call back to. Yeah, yeah I'm sure this will invoke a ton of counter examples, but admittedly the striking nature of filmed images feels fleeting in studio films these days, does it not? Even the blocking and close-ups of actors too often comes across as flat, you never see actors moving around in the background living their lives, providing the notion of a lived-in world. Again, this is a studio issue, I'm not talking about independent productions.

The closest I can think of to demonstrate is the new Spielberg West Side Story trailer, and even if it's corny the bird's eye shot of the shadows of the two gangs walking up to each other is evocative in ways that few major movies are anymore.



There's a great quote of Kevin Feige being completely astounded at shooting on location

https://twitter.com/DiscussingFilm/status/1387423868160196619?s=20

quote:

In a movie that would be full of visual effects and greenscreen — as all Marvel movies are — Feige says Zhao “was really fighting for practical locations” in accordance with her vision for it. At one point, they cut a sample reel of “Eternals” for Disney higher-ups to watch.

“And I had to keep saying, ‘This is right out of a camera; there’s no VFX work to this at all!’” Feige says. “Because it was a beautiful sunset, with perfect waves and mist coming up from the shore on this giant cliffside — really impressive stuff.” Later, watching “Nomadland,” he saw similar shots. “Oh! That is not just what she wanted to bring to Marvel,” he remembers thinking. “This is a signature style.”

X-Ray Pecs
May 11, 2008

New York
Ice Cream
TV
Travel
~Good Times~


TrixRabbi posted:

On a similar note, Matt Zoller Seitz had a brief twitter rant yesterday that I broadly agree with in which he was lamenting the lack of visual storytelling in modern films. I.E. It feels like sparingly few directors these days really understand how to use a shot or sequence to convey an idea. Not that every movie from the past was a masterpiece, but it seems even among the most appraised films of any given year there's no longer an image as captivating as the cliff in Black Narcissus, the tennis match in Strangers on a Train, any number of iconic moments you can call back to. Yeah, yeah I'm sure this will invoke a ton of counter examples, but admittedly the striking nature of filmed images feels fleeting in studio films these days, does it not? Even the blocking and close-ups of actors too often comes across as flat, you never see actors moving around in the background living their lives, providing the notion of a lived-in world. Again, this is a studio issue, I'm not talking about independent productions.

The closest I can think of to demonstrate is the new Spielberg West Side Story trailer, and even if it's corny the bird's eye shot of the shadows of the two gangs walking up to each other is evocative in ways that few major movies are anymore.

A lot of studio movies lack texture. I can't think of any blockbuster in recent memory that's had the texture of, say, Jurassic Park's famous glass of water, the spoonful of Jello, or the venom on Dennis Nedry's face.

CPL593H
Oct 28, 2009

I know what you did last summer, and frankly I am displeased.

TrixRabbi posted:

On a similar note, Matt Zoller Seitz had a brief twitter rant yesterday that I broadly agree with in which he was lamenting the lack of visual storytelling in modern films. I.E. It feels like sparingly few directors these days really understand how to use a shot or sequence to convey an idea. Not that every movie from the past was a masterpiece, but it seems even among the most appraised films of any given year there's no longer an image as captivating as the cliff in Black Narcissus, the tennis match in Strangers on a Train, any number of iconic moments you can call back to. Yeah, yeah I'm sure this will invoke a ton of counter examples, but admittedly the striking nature of filmed images feels fleeting in studio films these days, does it not? Even the blocking and close-ups of actors too often comes across as flat, you never see actors moving around in the background living their lives, providing the notion of a lived-in world. Again, this is a studio issue, I'm not talking about independent productions.

The closest I can think of to demonstrate is the new Spielberg West Side Story trailer, and even if it's corny the bird's eye shot of the shadows of the two gangs walking up to each other is evocative in ways that few major movies are anymore.

The more distinct examples one can pick from classic films are being seen by us through the filter of time. There are plenty of now beloved films that weren't very well regarded in their day or otherwise did poorly at the box office. These things are a handful of movies plucked from a long list of ones that are completely forgotten. That said, I don't entirely disagree with you because the last decade of blockbusters has largely been Marvel movies and those are practically created on an assembly line. And being as those have been a wild success everyone's going to want to ape as much of the experience of those films as possible. So we're seeing a lot of homogenized poo poo right now that it's kind of drowning out the sound of everything else.

I think the other thing as work here is that iconic images became that way because they were seen over and over again by people to the point there they recognize the imagery without even knowing the source. Think about something like Harold Lloyd hanging off the clock in Safety Last!.

CPL593H fucked around with this message at 19:06 on May 3, 2021

RBA Starblade
Apr 27, 2008

Going Home.



Games Idiot Court Jester


I'm pretty okay with less media being pathetically horny tbh

TrixRabbi
Aug 20, 2010

Time for a little robot chauvinism!



I do think it's more prevalent however because it feels as though directors are not even attempting to construct these types of sequences. Even in the failures of the 60s and 70s, you saw a wave of directors who were all trying to create evocative images and provocative stories.

Maybe it's personal too. Very few films by up and coming directors have really stuck with me, the best movies of the past several years have been courtesy of the old guard. There's very few who I can get excited for: the Safdies, Josephine Decker, I guess. Khalik Allah, the Ross brothers, Jessica Dunn Rovinelli, Zia Anger, Jon Bois, Eliza Hittman and Jeremy Saulnier are all doing interesting things. Internationally, Yann Gonzalez, Coralie Fargeat.

We still have the Gen Xers at least: PTA, Coppola, Linklater (very hit or miss though), Harmony Korine. Bong Joon-ho having his moment is nice and Celine Sciamma catching on in the U.S. is great.

But within the studios it's just dire. Jordan Peele and Greta Gerwig are maybe the best mainstream options. Comedy is dead, fuckin' Seth Rogen and Evan Goldberg are like the only other ones who can make a movie worth looking forward to anymore. At least Danny McBride is killing it on TV. Birds of Prey was a nice surprise and once in a blue moon you get a Cats or a Book of Henry out of some spectacular miscalculation.

I just want superheroes to go away. But they're not going to and cinema's just becoming another niche hobby.

Actually, one thing to amend. Bad Trip made me laugh my rear end off. Long live Eric Andre, may he save the studio comedy.

TrixRabbi fucked around with this message at 19:32 on May 3, 2021

feedmyleg
Dec 25, 2004

EVERY FAIRY TALE NEEDS ITS HERO.



RBA Starblade posted:

I'm pretty okay with less media being pathetically horny tbh

I agree that Hollywood has proven that it's far too misogynistic to handle it. That being said. I really wish we could get a return of big budget porn like we got hints of in the 70s, but this time with an eye to reducing exploitation. It's likely not possible, but a modern Flesh Gordon or Sex World could be fascinating if handled well, now that porn is so common and accepted. 99.9% chance it'd be gross and exploitative, though.

Lastdancer
Apr 21, 2008


* I'm gonna need some
dog treats for this!!!



Am I allowed to share my video shitposts in here if they're essentially movie scene edits? I will completely understand if the answer is 'no'

gently caress it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xgqfui_doQ
(warning: ending part with curtains is super loud)

Lastdancer fucked around with this message at 20:52 on May 3, 2021

porfiria
Dec 10, 2008


Dying Mediums (from least dead to deadest):
Movies
Books
Poetry
Opera

Rising Mediums:
Videogames
TikTok
Social Media

Vincent
Nov 25, 2005





The question is which mediums should just die already?

I say pantomime.

Electronico6
Feb 25, 2011



You mentioned Spielberg and this scene was retweeted when that discussion was happening

https://twitter.com/vashikoo/status/1163981567980478465?s=20

Basic poo poo like this is mostly gone.


But it's not just studio productions that are in a bad place, in the indie realms you have Maximum Malick which is just as obnoxious.

MacheteZombie
Feb 4, 2007





Lastdancer posted:

Am I allowed to share my video shitposts in here if they're essentially movie scene edits? I will completely understand if the answer is 'no'

gently caress it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xgqfui_doQ
(warning: ending part with curtains is super loud)

Finally the return of ytotd

The Klowner
Apr 20, 2019

I see past the sham that is society, and I'm into some incredibly fucked up shit.

porfiria posted:

Dying Mediums (from least dead to deadest):
Movies
Books
Poetry
Opera

Rising Mediums:
Videogames
TikTok
Social Media

The latter group is made to be consumable. You can't turn book-reading into a platform for monetization like playing a video game on twitch. Movies don't have endless feeds to scroll through. You can't swipe left on an opera.

People of the modern era are trained to believe at a basic level that true fulfillment is impossible so you might as well stuff your face with the ephemeral, short-term pleasures that capitalism provides in spades. Why have a balanced diet of fruits, vegetables, and protein when we're all going to die anyway? Besides, there are thousands of flavors of corn puffs to try.

banned from Starbucks
Jul 18, 2004






feedmyleg posted:

I agree that Hollywood has proven that it's far too misogynistic to handle it. That being said. I really wish we could get a return of big budget porn like we got hints of in the 70s, but this time with an eye to reducing exploitation. It's likely not possible, but a modern Flesh Gordon or Sex World could be fascinating if handled well, now that porn is so common and accepted. 99.9% chance it'd be gross and exploitative, though.

Didnt they already try that with that Pirates of the Caribbean porn? Just because its common and accepted doesnt mean anyone cares about watching more than 2min worth of it. (or paying for them to recoup w/e the budget is)

TrixRabbi
Aug 20, 2010

Time for a little robot chauvinism!



Electronico6 posted:

You mentioned Spielberg and this scene was retweeted when that discussion was happening

https://twitter.com/vashikoo/status/1163981567980478465?s=20

Basic poo poo like this is mostly gone.


But it's not just studio productions that are in a bad place, in the indie realms you have Maximum Malick which is just as obnoxious.

YES! Exactly! It feels like no one loving thinks about blocking anymore and there's an over reliance on closeups. I miss just a simple scene like that. It helps ground the films, give it a theatrical (in the live sense) feel and then later the action really pops because it's not always trying to thrust you forward. Even dramas don't use this simple technique nearly enough.

Maximum Malick, or all they learned from Ford was to get the scenery and maybe ape that door shot from The Searchers. But absolutely no attention to the loving finesse of the actors and how they're framed and moved across the screen!

DeimosRising
Oct 17, 2005

ˇHola SEA!




Have you seen Long Day’s Journey Into Night

Babysitter Super Sleuth
Apr 26, 2012

THERE'S FASCISM IN MY GIANT ROBOT ANIMES


There’s a great rant Lexi Alexander had on Twitter once about how a lot of directors would have massive budgets for set dressing and mise en scene, but you only ever got to see it during a 3 seconds establishing shot because every other take was a medium tight with heavy DoF blur.

Agent Rush
Aug 30, 2008

You looked, Junker!

Flying Zamboni posted:

The part in Skull Island where Shea Whigham tries to heroically sacrifice himself complete with dramatic slow motion only to be immediately swatted aside by the monster is a pretty good joke.

Oh, it pulls the same gag as Reign of Fire? Nice, I should really check Skull Island out sometime.

Gripweed
Nov 8, 2018



https://twitter.com/brendanowicz/status/1387974739151499266?s=20

TrixRabbi
Aug 20, 2010

Time for a little robot chauvinism!



DeimosRising posted:

Have you seen Long Day’s Journey Into Night

The Bi Gan film? Yeah it’s really good.

Escobarbarian
Jun 18, 2004




Grimey Drawer

I know a modern blockbuster with fantastic visual storytelling but people get very angry about it when you bring it up

it’s called Star Wars: The Last Jedi

McCloud
Oct 27, 2005





TrixRabbi posted:

But within the studios it's just dire. Jordan Peele and Greta Gerwig are maybe the best mainstream options. Comedy is dead, fuckin' Seth Rogen and Evan Goldberg are like the only other ones who can make a movie worth looking forward to anymore. At least Danny McBride is killing it on TV. Birds of Prey was a nice surprise and once in a blue moon you get a Cats or a Book of Henry out of some spectacular miscalculation.

I just want superheroes to go away. But they're not going to and cinema's just becoming another niche hobby.

Actually, one thing to amend. Bad Trip made me laugh my rear end off. Long live Eric Andre, may he save the studio comedy.

Zack Snyders Army of the Dead is coming in like 3 weeks, so that's your visual storyteller AND no superheroes!

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TrixRabbi
Aug 20, 2010

Time for a little robot chauvinism!



The Justice League debacle basically proved to me that I respect Zack Snyder as an artist with a vision and that I also absolutely hate his films.

Like, that's the thing that I'm talking about though! He makes choices, he has a personal aesthetic, he focuses on specific themes and makes personal movies. And it creates personal reactions within the audience. I wish we had way more Snyders out there given the free reign to do what they want to do because inevitably some of them would connect with me. George Miller is a good example of someone doing big action movies with distinguished voice I love but he's also in his late years and isn't exactly churning them out one after the other.

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