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Edward Mass
Sep 14, 2011

fuck the molice


Franchescanado posted:

Don't act like an actress's breasts are a separate person. Don't obsess over whether a woman's body is "right" to play a superhero. Don't say that women could stand to lose a few pounds. Make ironic sexist remarks at your own risk. It's all basic simple stuff. (Don't tell us what you masturbate to.) If you want to say how good-looking an actress or actor is, go ahead, but don't be a creep about it, and at least try to have something else more substantial to contribute to the discussion

When I decided not to make a new thread for 2020, I was just being lazy. It turned out that my laziness was warranted, as the world shut down in March and theaters closed! Not ideal for comic book movies. With WarnerMedia's announcement of simul-releases on HBO Max of their upcoming slate of movies, though, the cinema adventures of superheroes look to continue in some fashion, even if the line is blurring between 'movie' and 'TV show'. I'm not even sure if ZSJL is warranted being on the list of upcoming movies, given that it will first be released as a 4-part miniseries. Either way, here's what to look forward to arguing about :

Marvel Cinematic Universe

Black Widow - July 9, 2021
Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings - September 3, 2021
Eternals - November 5, 2021
Spider-Man: No Way Home - December 17, 2021
Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness - March 25, 2022
Thor: Love and Thunder - May 6, 2022
Black Panther II - July 8, 2022
Captain Marvel 2 - November 11, 2022

DC Extended Universe

Zack Snyder's Justice League - March 18, 2021
The Suicide Squad - August 6, 2021
Black Adam - July 29, 2022
The Flash - November 4, 2022
Aquaman 2 - December 16, 2022
Shazam! Fury of the Gods - June 2, 2023

Sony Pictures Universe of Marvel Characters

Venom: Let There Be Carnage - June 25, 2021
Morbius - January 21, 2022
Nightwatch - TBD
Kraven the Hunter - TBD
Sinister Six - TBD

Valiant Cinematic Universe

Harbinger - TBD
Harbinger sequel - TBD
Bloodshot sequel - TBD
Harbinger Wars - TBD
Archer & Armstrong - TBD
Shadowman - TBD

Others

The King's Man - August 20, 2021
The Batman - March 4, 2022
DC Super Pets - May 20, 2022
Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse sequel - October 7, 2022
Rising Stars - TBD
Spawn reboot - TBD
Birthright - TBD

If I missed anything, please tell me and I'll add it to the OP.

Edward Mass fucked around with this message at 19:53 on Mar 29, 2021

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DC Murderverse
Nov 10, 2016

"Tell that to Zod's snapped neck!"



put me in a coma until 10/7/22

Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


Movies are dead

Long live Movies

Pixeltendo
Mar 2, 2012




Of all villains why is Kraven getting his own movie?

CelticPredator
Oct 11, 2013



Sony is kraven that cash

Lord_Magmar
Feb 24, 2015

"Welcome to pound town, Slifer slacker!"




So I saw Wonder Woman in theatres and I think some of the complaints are a little overblown. Itís not a good movie by any means but it is a functional one with good moments.

But three very specific comments stood out to me as people just not watching the movie. Everyone who made a wish became somewhat blind to itís moral consequences, especially Barbara and Maxwell, why wouldnít Diana suffer the same fate in terms of her wish to have Steve back. Cheetah becoming Cheetah is because she literally says to Maxwell Lord I wish to be an apex predator, something unique that nobody has seen before and whilst he doesnít do it immediately he does do it. The resolution of the movie happens because Maxwell and several people who made wishes with him denounce them, which undoes the effects of the wish, especially Maxwell renouncing his wish likely made most of the wishes he granted unstable if not null.

MiddleOne
Feb 17, 2011



Ah, the weird writing was due to the plot mcguffin. Now everything feels better.


No wai-

Lord_Magmar
Feb 24, 2015

"Welcome to pound town, Slifer slacker!"




MiddleOne posted:

Ah, the weird writing was due to the plot mcguffin. Now everything feels better.


No wai-

The point I'm making is everyone has a consistent reaction to the plot macguffin.

MiddleOne
Feb 17, 2011



Maxwell doesn't need a motivation for the horrible things he does, because it was the magic stone making him amoral. This is good and interesting writing and I feel very rewarded having watched this story unfold.

Lord_Magmar
Feb 24, 2015

"Welcome to pound town, Slifer slacker!"




MiddleOne posted:

Maxwell doesn't need a motivation for the horrible things he does, because it was the magic stone making him amoral. This is good and interesting writing and I feel very rewarded having watched this story unfold.

No, he was already motivated to do terrible things, but it went from a simple desire to be someone important to trying to take over the world. His morality decayed as his power and wish grew.

Everyone
Sep 6, 2019


Lord_Magmar posted:

No, he was already motivated to do terrible things, but it went from a simple desire to be someone important to trying to take over the world. His morality decayed as his power and wish grew.

I haven't even seen the movie yet and I got this. Absolute power corrupts/reveals absolutely.

I'm not sure how this was expressed by Diana accidentally? raping some dude, but whatever. Is that part a thing during the movie? Like, does Diana know that she's loving some stranger's body with Steve's spirit in it or something? Does she ever meet the actual guy who was housing Steve's spirit like the whole thing was some extended "meet cute" for WW3? "Oh, yeah, Bob. Right. I was loving you while my dead boyfriend was possessing you. Good to see you again."

MiddleOne
Feb 17, 2011



She hits on him.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




A wizard did it.

thrawn527
Mar 27, 2004

Thrawn/Pellaeon
Studying the art of terrorists
To keep you safe

Lord_Magmar posted:

So I saw Wonder Woman in theatres and I think some of the complaints are a little overblown. Itís not a good movie by any means but it is a functional one with good moments.

But three very specific comments stood out to me as people just not watching the movie. Everyone who made a wish became somewhat blind to itís moral consequences, especially Barbara and Maxwell, why wouldnít Diana suffer the same fate in terms of her wish to have Steve back. Cheetah becoming Cheetah is because she literally says to Maxwell Lord I wish to be an apex predator, something unique that nobody has seen before and whilst he doesnít do it immediately he does do it. The resolution of the movie happens because Maxwell and several people who made wishes with him denounce them, which undoes the effects of the wish, especially Maxwell renouncing his wish likely made most of the wishes he granted unstable if not null.

Most of those things still happened, though. US and Russia still launched nukes at each other. I get that the extra nukes the President wished for disappeared, but why did all the other nukes disappear? And even if we grant that all the nukes disappeared for some reason (a leap, but whatever), they still decided to go to nuclear war with each other, and they remember that they did it. That much is clear because they're watching the nukes disappear and DC still looks like it's in chaos. Then in the next scene everyone is just happy and throwing snow balls. And it's not just the nuclear war thing, the whole world was brought to chaos and should be insanely unstable, and the only wrap up we get is the snow ball scene where everyone is already happy. That's bad writing, because it feels like we missed something big. Either the stone THEN came in and wiped away everything AFTER we saw the nukes disappear, which would be weird and an odd way to present things, or the whole world just decided that what they saw was some sort of mass psychosis. "Whoa, that was loving weird how nukes just launched and the Irish (it was the Irish, right?) were suddenly being rounded up, and that wall that suddenly appeared out of nowhere disappeared just as quickly, and that oil dude appeared on our TVs talking about wishes, and started laughing maniacally, and some woman told us wishes were lies or something. Anyway, I better go shopping. Merry Christmas!"

But at least we got to see Diana hit on the guy she raped. It's okay, though, because he doesn't remember it. What a hero.

thrawn527 fucked around with this message at 13:11 on Jan 3, 2021

Lord_Magmar
Feb 24, 2015

"Welcome to pound town, Slifer slacker!"




thrawn527 posted:

Most of those things still happened, though. US and Russia still launched nukes at each other. I get that the extra nukes the President wished for disappeared, but why did all the other nukes disappear? And even if we grant that all the nukes disappeared for some reason (a leap, but whatever), they still decided to go to nuclear war with each other, and they remember that they did it. That much is clear because they're watching the nukes disappear and DC still looks like it's in chaos. Then in the next scene everyone is just happy and throwing snow balls. And it's not just the nuclear war thing, the whole world was brought to chaos and should be insanely unstable, and the only wrap up we get is the snow ball scene where everyone is already happy. That's bad writing, because it feels like we missed something big. Either the stone THEN came in and wiped away everything AFTER we saw the nukes disappear, which would be weird and an odd way to present things, or the whole world just decided that what they saw was some sort of mass psychosis. "Whoa, that was loving weird how nukes just launched and the Irish (it was the Irish, right?) were suddenly being rounded up, and that wall that suddenly appeared out of nowhere disappeared just as quickly, and that oil dude appeared on our TVs talking about wishes, and started laughing maniacally, and some woman told us wishes were lies or something. Anyway, I better go shopping. Merry Christmas!"

But at least we got to see Diana hit on the guy she raped. It's okay, though, because he doesn't remember it. What a hero.


Oh yeah I make no excuses for the movie itself, I'm simply saying the movie has consistent logic. The stuff you talk about is still largely terrible yes. Although I kind of took the reading that the reason Diana hits on the guy at the end is the counterpoint to her whole I will never love anyone again thing with Steve, where it turns out that her issue might have been overly focusing on Steve as her one true love. For example Barbara was definitely into Diana in their early stuff together, and they totally hit it off. I figure the bit at the end was meant to be hey Diana if you had actually stopped moping about Steve maybe you would've met this guy, and now you've ruined it. I dunno it's definitely the outright weirdest part. As for everything stopping, I figure that's just people having been on the brink of destruction and deciding this is a terrible terrible idea. Or yeah the magic stone doing magic things I dunno, I just wanted to point out that all of those little comments are given reasons in movie, even if those reasons aren't great. I think the one that's definitely true is the Cheetah thing, which I felt a lot of people seemed confused when she literally says make me an apex predator to the man who grants wishes.

MiddleOne
Feb 17, 2011



I think the part where the movie breaks for me is when they go to Egypt. Maxwell has one (singular) clearly defined goal up until that point, salvaging his business. Only here is where the goalposts start shifting so rapidly that he basically stops having a character. Now he wants all of the worlds oil? And when he meets Diana on the road he's immediately like, "kill them"? He barely knows why they're there and hasn't killed anyone up until this point. When did this dark tonal turn happen. Same with the children Diana saves, were they in danger? Is he this completely amoral character now that would just wantonly kill kids for kicks? It's not really established, it just happens.

Also none of this matters because now he wants all the worlds power through a mcguffin satellite, although it's not really clear for what? He's just dying randomly from magic? Like, ok movie. That sure is convenient because otherwise he would have zero motivation for everything he's doing.


If it's the stone, then maybe show that it's the stone? At least tell us? Barbara gets real stakes, she does not want to lose what she has gotten. It's not 'oh no trust us the stone made her crazy', she has understandable reasons for why she does the things she does. Maxwell and Diana just do whatever the plot needs them do and "the stone did it" is a really dumb, uninteresting and contrived way to explain it.

Also I don't know why I'm spoiler-tagging any of this because this movie blows.

MiddleOne fucked around with this message at 13:58 on Jan 3, 2021

Shageletic
Jul 25, 2007






Trying to understand Magmar's point. Wonder Woman's macguffin makes sense because it makes people amoral, something not stated in the movie. So hence everyone being bad I guess.

So what made them give up their wishes? It made them bad, until they were good again? And it not even being mentioned at all in the text of the movie?

Lord_Magmar
Feb 24, 2015

"Welcome to pound town, Slifer slacker!"




Shageletic posted:

Trying to understand Magmar's point. Wonder Woman's macguffin makes sense because it makes people amoral, something not stated in the movie. So hence everyone being bad I guess.

So what made them give up their wishes? It made them bad, until they were good again? And it not even being mentioned at all in the text of the movie?

Whip of truth was glowing all over the world, dispelling the self-lies and showing people the truth of their wishes, literally the opposite power of lies which is what the god who made the macguffin is a god of. As for Wonder Woman herself, sheís basically pushed into undoing her wish by the person it brought back, not her own currently weakened morality.

I never said it was good, I simply said itís consistent with what the movie shows.

Lord_Magmar fucked around with this message at 14:46 on Jan 3, 2021

Shageletic
Jul 25, 2007






Wait whip of truth glowing through the world, did we see the same movie? I dont remember that happening.

Lord_Magmar
Feb 24, 2015

"Welcome to pound town, Slifer slacker!"




Shageletic posted:

Wait whip of truth glowing through the world, did we see the same movie? I dont remember that happening.

Apparently not. After disrupting Lordís broadcast and he climbs up onto the actual satellite whatever in the middle of the room, when Diana canít approach Lord she starts giving him a speech, and then itís revealed sheís managed to get the whip around his leg and into the broadcast. They then show the golden glow of the whip coming from every screen that Lordís broadcast had taken control of, her speech and itís magic spread the same way he was spreading by his wishes and lies.

I actually did see the movie in theatres, maybe there are different cuts between theatre and the streamed version? If itís a must be experienced in cinemas movie this might be why.

Lord_Magmar fucked around with this message at 15:12 on Jan 3, 2021

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




I'm sure Patty Jenkins will casually tweet out some exposition that puts the events of the movie into context.

Mr. Apollo
Nov 8, 2000



Lord_Magmar posted:

I actually did see the movie in theatres, maybe there are different cuts between theatre and the streamed version? If itís a must be experienced in cinemas movie this might be why.
I saw the streaming version and remember this.

Lord_Magmar
Feb 24, 2015

"Welcome to pound town, Slifer slacker!"




Mr. Apollo posted:

I saw the streaming version and remember this.

Ah good, so some people just arenít paying attention. Understandable really, the movie might be internally logically consistent but that doesnít make it interesting or good.

thrawn527
Mar 27, 2004

Thrawn/Pellaeon
Studying the art of terrorists
To keep you safe

Lord_Magmar posted:

Ah good, so some people just arenít paying attention. Understandable really, the movie might be internally logically consistent but that doesnít make it interesting or good.

It is weird how they show her not able to reach him with the lasso a couple of times, then reveal that she somehow managed to reach him off camera at some point.

But yeah, itís clear that the lasso is revealing the truth to the world through the TV thingie.

Lord_Magmar
Feb 24, 2015

"Welcome to pound town, Slifer slacker!"




thrawn527 posted:

It is weird how they show her not able to reach him with the lasso a couple of times, then reveal that she somehow managed to reach him off camera at some point.

But yeah, itís clear that the lasso is revealing the truth to the world through the TV thingie.

She speaks the truth and the whip gets stronger maybe? Possibly reaching deeper into her godly heritage like she did with the invisible jet plane earlier.

MacheteZombie
Feb 4, 2007





CelticPredator posted:

Sony is kraven that cash

Shageletic
Jul 25, 2007






thrawn527 posted:

It is weird how they show her not able to reach him with the lasso a couple of times, then reveal that she somehow managed to reach him off camera at some point.

But yeah, itís clear that the lasso is revealing the truth to the world through the TV thingie.

Ugh I guess I missed that, you would think they would have done a better job of highlighting that was what was happening in a movie that wasn't subtle at all untilthat point

SolidSnakesBandana
Jul 1, 2007

Infinite ammo


At least one person must have refused to denounce his or her wish, or at the very least their wish puts them somewhere they were unable to hear the last part of the message.

Sir Kodiak
May 14, 2007




SolidSnakesBandana posted:

At least one person must have refused to denounce his or her wish, or at the very least their wish puts them somewhere they were unable to hear the last part of the message.

Apparently not. Everyone needed to renounce for things to be fixed and things were fixed, so everyone must have renounced.

Shageletic
Jul 25, 2007






Lord_Magmar posted:

Whip of truth was glowing all over the world, dispelling the self-lies and showing people the truth of their wishes, literally the opposite power of lies which is what the god who made the macguffin is a god of. As for Wonder Woman herself, sheís basically pushed into undoing her wish by the person it brought back, not her own currently weakened morality.

I never said it was good, I simply said itís consistent with what the movie shows.

Alright I'm rewinding to this scene. Btw, fast forwarding through this dreck reminds me of how awfully long it is, this loving movie went on forever.

To paraphrase this scene.

Diana tries to throw the whip at Max, who inexplicably goes to the center of the room, away from the cameras. It doesn't work.

Diana gives a speech about how the world is good just as it is.

Max is gyrating in the center of the movie. Hints of enchantress's dancing from Suicide Squad.

Max yells at Diana thinking she was talking to him. Diana is actually talking to a camera, and her whip somehow works this time, twining around Max's leg.

Huge screen in a plaza gets golden, same color as Diana's whip. But I thought it was around Max's leg? Who the gently caress is filming Max right now, and why is the only thing being filmed is a blinding golden light that isn't near as bright in the room.

You see people looking at the screen, looking concerned. Cut to Irish dude, while the lady he cursed is being given CPR behind him. He doesn't look happy.

Cheetah sees a light engulf the communication room, while she holds her head. I guess the whip is getting more powerful, but Diana is still talking in the same monotone voice. Feels like an awkward cut to me.

Max is engulfed in the light, that is coming from the center of the room then. It comes from a row of computers, which sets Max's kid running as a crowd of people rush the room he's in, and anarchy is shown throughout the world. I thought it was dispelling people's illusions?

Russians and Americans launch nukes lol. Max , then sees his kid somehow, and renounces his wish. President renounces his wish, and the missiles vanish and reverse in a Benny Hill-esqe reverse shot.

This is a really confusing scene. If the whip, whose powers and parameters are blown to god like levels without any sort of commentary by characters in the movie, shows people the truth, then why do things get worse after people see it? How is it traveling across the world (I realize I'm trying to figure out why Superman can fix the Great Wall by breathing on it) when there aren't cameras on it. Wasn't it making things worse, until Max rescinded his wish? I dunno, I think this stupid movie is making me think too much about it.

2house2fly
Nov 14, 2012

You did a super job wrapping things up! And I'm not just saying that because I have to!

I think by wish-movie logic, Lord renouncing his wish automatically renounces everyone else's because he was the one who granted their wishes in the first place. Like in Jumanji, when they win the game it undoes all the consequences of them playing the game

Piell
Sep 3, 2006

Grey Worm's Ken doll-like groin throbbed with the anticipatory pleasure that only a slightly warm and moist piece of lemoncake could offer



Young Orc

Max is somehow touching everyone at once so I guess the lasso is also somehow touching everyone at once, and since it's thr lasso of truth it beats the stone of lies and everyone sees that the wishes are bad and so they also renounce???? Thats the best read of this i can come up with

Also Wonder Woman is just barreling the camera and talking to everyone but it makes no sense because she's not actually talking to a camera is insane because it would actually kind of work if she was literally talking into a camera and the world could hear her

Piell fucked around with this message at 18:16 on Jan 3, 2021

CelticPredator
Oct 11, 2013



ďWould you say you wish for a dog? Yes?Ē
ďYes I would say that!Ē
ďGreat in return I take your house and your family!! Haha!Ē

Blood Boils
Dec 27, 2006

Its not an S, on my planet it means QUIPS


Hair Elf

Ghost Leviathan posted:

I'm sure Patty Jenkins will casually tweet out some exposition that puts the events of the movie into context.

"It's set in the 1980's"

Grendels Dad
Mar 5, 2011

Popular culture has passed you by.

Ghost Leviathan posted:

I'm sure Patty Jenkins will casually tweet out some exposition that puts the events of the movie into context.

Preparing for her job at Disney's, I see.

FilthyImp
Sep 30, 2002

Nope



Max's megalomania is likely a result of his son Wishing for him to be great creating a feedback loop of Wishes and lovely health.

Shageletic posted:

Ugh I guess I missed that, you would think they would have done a better job of highlighting that was what was happening in a movie that wasn't subtle at all untilthat point
I think the comfort of home-watching is leading to a bunch of dumb poo poo like "totally missed the shot of the magic lasso snaked across the floor and wrapped around Lord's ankle, causing the slow replacement of the cool blue light with the warm golden glow of truth" or "Why does he want Oil?! / Because his business was based on Oil drilling".

I swear it's one of those situations where the movie could have explicitly said "the stone will drive people to wish for more and more and extract greater tolls, the only way to undo it all is for Max to die / no there must be a way to renounce his wish / yes that would rob the stone of its power and undo everything" and people would be complaining that it spelled everything out.

Look guys, I know it's not perfect but at least Jenkins got to do her Hope vs Lies person-to-person ending, and didn't go "Well we have to show the Wishstone corrupting Max so MAYBE HE JUST TURNS MORE AND MORE INTO A ROCKMONSTER AND THE END IS HIM FIGHTING DIANA WITH ROCK-SKIN POWERS AND GLOWING WISH-JUICE"

Shageletic posted:

Max , then sees his kid somehow, and renounces his wish.

How is it traveling across the world (I realize I'm trying to figure out why Superman can fix the Great Wall by breathing on it) when there aren't cameras on it.
There's a whole loving scene where Diana explains the lasso doesn't just compel/reveal the truth, it can show things to people (flashback to explain the somewhat-useless golden eagle armour).

It travels across the world the same way that Max's wishtouch does, by science-particles as shown by the glowing oculus at the center of the room.

Is there a word for movie plot illiteracy? It has to be a thing.

FilthyImp fucked around with this message at 20:10 on Jan 3, 2021

Guy A. Person
May 23, 2003



Lord_Magmar posted:

But three very specific comments stood out to me as people just not watching the movie.

Lord_Magmar posted:

Ah good, so some people just aren’t paying attention.

This kind of thing seems weirdly aggressive?

I think mostly people understood what was happening and just didn't like it, or they saw the same thing but interpreted it a different way. Shageletic seems to have missed one aspect on their watch but that doesn't prove your assertion that people are just dumb and didn't notice stuff.

Shageletic
Jul 25, 2007






FilthyImp posted:

Max's megalomania is likely a result of his son Wishing for him to be great creating a feedback loop of Wishes and lovely health.

I think the comfort of home-watching is leading to a bunch of dumb poo poo like "totally missed the shot of the magic lasso snaked across the floor and wrapped around Lord's ankle, causing the slow replacement of the cool blue light with the warm golden glow of truth" or "Why does he want Oil?! / Because his business was based on Oil drilling".

I swear it's one of those situations where the movie could have explicitly said "the stone will drive people to wish for more and more and extract greater tolls, the only way to undo it all is for Max to die / no there must be a way to renounce his wish / yes that would rob the stone of its power and undo everything" and people would be complaining that it spelled everything out.

Look guys, I know it's not perfect but at least Jenkins got to do her Hope vs Lies person-to-person ending, and didn't go "Well we have to show the Wishstone corrupting Max so MAYBE HE JUST TURNS MORE AND MORE INTO A ROCKMONSTER AND THE END IS HIM FIGHTING DIANA WITH ROCK-SKIN POWERS AND GLOWING WISH-JUICE"

There's a whole loving scene where Diana explains the lasso doesn't just compel/reveal the truth, it can show things to people (flashback to explain the somewhat-useless golden eagle armour).

It travels across the world the same way that Max's wishtouch does, by science-particles as shown by the glowing oculus at the center of the room.

Is there a word for movie plot illiteracy? It has to be a thing.

You seem pretty mad about this stupid movie.

FilthyImp
Sep 30, 2002

Nope



Guy A. Person posted:

This kind of thing seems weirdly aggressive?
Tbh it's mostly just frustrating to watch a discussion unfold where people just... didn't pay attention to poo poo?

"So some rando shoots Gatsby? Boy what a lovely plot hole!"

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socialsecurity
Aug 30, 2003


Guy A. Person posted:

This kind of thing seems weirdly aggressive?

I think mostly people understood what was happening and just didn't like it, or they saw the same thing but interpreted it a different way. Shageletic seems to have missed one aspect on their watch but that doesn't prove your assertion that people are just dumb and didn't notice stuff.

No he proved one guy didn't notice one thing therefore all criticisms are invalid.

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