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Guy A. Person
May 23, 2003



Oasx posted:

Ahh yes, if you like Zack Snyder it's because he's a minor god, if you like Marvel it's bootlicking. I care as much about Disney as you do WB, but I do care for the Marvel universe. Whether it's Disney that holds the money I don't really care about.

For the record, I don't think you're being called a bootlicker for liking Marvel, but because regarding the New Gods press release and the Whedon accusations, you seem to have a pattern of parroting corporate press releases/talking points excusing their behavior. Like surprise surprise, WB is trying to sell the idea that their hands are tied after firing two POC directors, in the wake of a scandal where they removed and abused a bunch of other POC actors from their latest superhero movie.

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teagone
Jun 10, 2003

That was pretty intense, huh?

Oasx posted:

Ahh yes, if you like Zack Snyder it's because he's a minor god, if you like Marvel it's bootlicking. I care as much about Disney as you do WB, but I do care for the Marvel universe. Whether it's Disney that holds the money I don't really care about.

This is such a boring take. No one cares if you like Marvel movies, so please, don't try to spin this as some petty Marvel vs Snyder/DC thing. And come on, you basically sided with WB over the New Gods thing and dumped blame on Snyder, which is 100% the corporate talking point that was making rounds on social media yesterday lol. That's clearly not any sort of criticism, but instead it comes across as you propping up corpo executive bullshit.

[edit]

Guy A. Person posted:

But still, I understand that this narrative is seductive, it's easier to assume someone you like just had some bad press but there's no smoking gun, you know?

Yeah, that's fair.

teagone fucked around with this message at 17:28 on Apr 2, 2021

The MSJ
May 17, 2010



https://twitter.com/DavidAyerMovies/status/1378071674549989378?s=19

Grendels Dad
Mar 5, 2011

Popular culture has passed you by.

Oasx posted:

They are pretty dark and gritty compared to most comicbook stories.


Buffy is genuinely a great tv show, especially for its time and the importance it had on genre tv. But of course it has aged as all things do. I wouldn't call the rest of his work amazing, but I did like it.
I have no problem with people who don't like his style, I just find it bizarre how angry some people get at others enjoying it.
And I am of course speaking about his professional work, his abuse of young women on set is horrible.


Buffy features attempted rape as a plot point and the Reavers in Serenity have been described as literally raping people to death. Just to put your dumbass comments about dark and gritty content into perspective.

McCloud
Oct 27, 2005





Grendels Dad posted:

Buffy features attempted rape as a plot point and the Reavers in Serenity have been described as literally raping people to death. Just to put your dumbass comments about dark and gritty content into perspective.

Is it time for that quote again?

https://io9.gizmodo.com/the-firefly-episode-were-really-glad-joss-whedon-didnt-5959794

You bet!

quote:

"She had this magic syringe. She would take this drug. And if she were, for instance, raped, the rapist would die a horrible death. The story was that she gets kidnapped by Reavers and when Mal finally got to the ship to save her from the Reavers, he gets on the Reaver ship and all the Reavers are dead. Which would suggest a kind of really bad assault. At the end of the episode, he comes in after she's been horribly brutalized, and he comes in and he gets down on his knee, and he takes her hand. And he treats her like a lady. And that's the kind of stuff that we wanted to do. It was very dark. And this was actually the first story that Joss pitched to me when he asked me to come work on the show. He said, 'These are the kind of stories we're going to do."

Everyone
Sep 6, 2019



My Macbook Pro already has a "Down Arrow" key that no longer works. Please don't damage it further by posting stuff likely to make me puke on it. Figure at this point any Joss Whedon "really cool ideas" are pretty much nausea fuel.

Miching Mallecho
May 24, 2010







Didn't Mal treat Inara really bad at times during the show, I guess you would call it "negging" now a days?

I honestly don't remember Firefly that much even though i bought the dumb Blu-ray years ago, all I ever remember clearly is the "lost episode" plot and they spoke Chinese for some reason at weird times.

Piell
Sep 3, 2006

Grey Worm's Ken doll-like groin throbbed with the anticipatory pleasure that only a slightly warm and moist piece of lemoncake could offer



Young Orc

Miching Mallecho posted:

Didn't Mal treat Inara really bad at times during the show, I guess you would call it "negging" now a days?

I honestly don't remember Firefly that much even though i bought the dumb Blu-ray years ago, all I ever remember clearly is the "lost episode" plot and they spoke Chinese for some reason at weird times.

Mal was constantly a piece of poo poo to Inara and had a whole bit about how he's the only one who gets to call her a whore

Also IIRC there's literally one asian actor with literally any lines at all in the entire series (a minor character in one episode), in a setting where everything started as a joint US/Chinese settlement and everyone throws in random bad Chinese lines all the time

Piell fucked around with this message at 14:05 on Apr 3, 2021

MiddleOne
Feb 17, 2011




What the gently caress.

Gorn Myson
Aug 8, 2007








Piell posted:

Also IIRC there's literally one asian actor with literally any lines at all in the entire series (a minor character in one episode), in a setting where everything started as a joint US/Chinese settlement and everyone throws in random bad Chinese lines all the time
If Whedon made it now there would be no Asian actors.

Inzombiac
Mar 19, 2007

PARTY ALL NIGHT

EAT BRAINS ALL DAY


Yeah they throw in bits of Chinese in a way that a Mexican-American might speak Spanglish, except that it's incredibly forced.

hiddenriverninja
May 10, 2013

life is locomotion
keep moving
trust that you'll find your way


Huh, this whole time I thought Summer Glau was at least part Asian.

Detective No. 27
Jun 7, 2006



I wish it got made because it would have saved us a ton of pain later down the line.

Lord_Magmar
Feb 24, 2015

"Welcome to pound town, Slifer slacker!"




Genuinely from what has been said by people involved in the show since it finished, Buffy is good in spite of Whedon, not because of him.

Chairman Capone
Dec 17, 2008



Lord_Magmar posted:

Genuinely from what has been said by people involved in the show since it finished, Buffy is good in spite of Whedon, not because of him.

It had a strong writers' room for sure, with it being the first show for a lot of writers who went on to do bigger things (Jane Espenson, Drew Goddard, Steven DeKnight).

Perhaps a hamster
Jun 15, 2010




Obligatory "Joss Whedon wrote a Wonder Woman script and made Steve Trevor the protagonist" post:

Joss Whedon posted:

CLOSE ON: THE GIRL

To say she is beautiful is almost to miss the point. She is elemental, as natural and wild as the luminous flora surrounding. Her dark hair waterfalls to her shoulders in soft arcs and curls. Her body is curvaceous, but taut as a drawn bow. She wears burnished metal bracelets on both wrists, another era; wide and intricately detailed. Her shift is of another era; we'd call it ancient Greek. She is barefoot.

Steve Trevor posted:

"I think you're dangerous. I think you mean well but you're looking for trouble and you're wildly adept at finding it. I think you've got delusions of grandeur and some actual grandeur, which is confusing. I don't like confusing. I hate the fact that I'm so attracted to you, just touching you is overwhelming and I keep hoping you'll turn around so I can see more of you naked."

He stops, even more confused than she is. His jaw sets and he reaches down, pulls the lasso out from under his butt. She tries not show her smile.

Things I love seeing in my female empowerment movies posted:

DIANA
(choking on it)
I... submit

STRIFE
Do it.

Slowly, she gets on her knees. Holds out her two hands. The chain rises, twitching like a snake, pointed at her, straining at her.

DIANA
I submit.

The chain shoots out of Strife's grasp and attaches to her bands. We pan up from her hands to her face -- and there is color drained from it. Not just ashen shame; she looks less vital, less alive.

STRIFE
If your mother could see you now...

Diana looks at herself, at her chains, at her torn and tawdry outfit.

What a pity it'll never get made now, but hey, at least that 'sitting on a lasso' gag came to good use!

Piell posted:

Mal was constantly a piece of poo poo to Inara and had a whole bit about how he's the only one who gets to call her a whore

Whedon's self-insert character in Buffy was a quintessential nice guy 'best friend' who kept slut-shaming her for sleeping with people that were not him and attempted to rape* her the minute he got the excuse of being possessed by hyenas.

*Not to be confused with the controversial attempted rape on Buffy at a later season - that one was written in for the sole purpose of reminding the audience that bad guy still bad. Feminism.

Guy A. Person
May 23, 2003



Perhaps a hamster posted:

What a pity it'll never get made now, but hey, at least that 'sitting on a lasso' gag came to good use!

Lmfao Christ what a hack

Gatts
Jan 2, 2001

Goodnight Moon


Nap Ghost

Chairman Capone posted:

It had a strong writers' room for sure, with it being the first show for a lot of writers who went on to do bigger things (Jane Espenson, Drew Goddard, Steven DeKnight).

Yeah, like on Angel, Tim Minear and co (Ben Edlund of Tick fame) outshone Buffy. That whole group was stronger than Whedon.

2house2fly
Nov 14, 2012

You did a super job wrapping things up! And I'm not just saying that because I have to!

I remember the one where Xander got possessed by a hyena demon and turned into a rape monster. I liked the ending where he pretends to have amnesia, it was very much one of those "I'd probably pretend that also" things

Everyone
Sep 6, 2019


hiddenriverninja posted:

Huh, this whole time I thought Summer Glau was at least part Asian.

I just assumed that Summer Glau was part of that "alien-hybrid genetic group" that produced Zooey Deschanel, Tilda Swinton and other people that are really really good at playing people who aren't actually regular human beings.

Lord_Magmar posted:

Genuinely from what has been said by people involved in the show since it finished, Buffy is good in spite of Whedon, not because of him.

I don't think that's completely fair, but it's not completely unfair, either. The first five seasons of BtVS are decent to really good TV, with a couple of bits of greatness here and there (along with the occasional clunkers). The show kind of went off the rails in Seasons Six and Seven - especially Six. So if Whedon exerted more control during those seasons, I wouldn't be shocked.

McCloud
Oct 27, 2005





Perhaps a hamster posted:

Obligatory "Joss Whedon wrote a Wonder Woman script and made Steve Trevor the protagonist" post:




What a pity it'll never get made now, but hey, at least that 'sitting on a lasso' gag came to good use!


Whedon's self-insert character in Buffy was a quintessential nice guy 'best friend' who kept slut-shaming her for sleeping with people that were not him and attempted to rape* her the minute he got the excuse of being possessed by hyenas.

*Not to be confused with the controversial attempted rape on Buffy at a later season - that one was written in for the sole purpose of reminding the audience that bad guy still bad. Feminism.


MiddleOne posted:

What the gently caress.

Perhaps a hamster
Jun 15, 2010




quote:

What the gently caress

Joss Whedon in 2018 posted:

I dont know which parts people didnt like, but I went and reread the script after I heard there was a backlash, Whedon told Variety. I think its great."

Timeless Appeal
May 28, 2006


Lord_Magmar posted:

Genuinely from what has been said by people involved in the show since it finished, Buffy is good in spite of Whedon, not because of him.
I think that it's also a matter of relative restraint on Whedon's part earlier in his career.

Firefly is the start of him not being able to keep his obvious kinks and hangups out of his work. He has so much sexual violence towards women seeping into it as well as his thing for infantilized women. But then Dollhouse is just straight up a lot about mind controlled women sex slaves who are essentially children in their default state. poo poo's weird.

Blastedhellscape
Jan 1, 2008


I disliked a lot of Whedon's writing because all of the characters seem to have the same voice. Age of Ultron was the worst for that; I mean, I don't mind one or two characters filling the role of 'the quipy guy,' but when Thor, Captain America, Black Widow, *and* the evil robot are all talking like that too...ugh.

Of course now that we know that he was a sadistic boss and a casting-couch sex-creep it's pretty easy to dismiss him out of hand.

Detective No. 27
Jun 7, 2006



They all have the same voice because he didn't give a poo poo about the actual characters. It was recently revealed that on the set of Josstice League he kept calling Wonder Woman "Natasha." These characters are interchanging to him.

Total Meatlove
Jan 28, 2007


Rangers died, shoujo Hitler cried ;_;


that hed think of them as characters

The MSJ
May 17, 2010



The second part of the animated adaptation of The Long Halloween is getting an R rating.

Detective No. 27
Jun 7, 2006



There was a first part? For real I didn't know.

wyoming
Jun 7, 2010

Like a television
tuned to a dead channel.


The MSJ posted:

The second part of the animated adaptation of The Long Halloween is getting an R rating.

To spice things up they put in a sex scene with Batman and the Calendar Man.

fatherboxx
Mar 25, 2013



Miching Mallecho posted:

Didn't Mal treat Inara really bad at times during the show, I guess you would call it "negging" now a days?

Joss Whedon's idea of making almost every character in cast a Han Solo is very narrow and amounts to "a massive dickhead"

Grendels Dad
Mar 5, 2011

Popular culture has passed you by.

fatherboxx posted:

Joss Whedon's idea of making almost every character in cast a Han Solo is very narrow and amounts to "a massive dickhead"

To be fair, Mal's shittiness is adressed in the show. Him and Jayne are often depicted as good guys merely through circumstance.

What I find problematic is the public perception of Mal as a rogue with a heart of gold, when the whole point seems to be that you would have to dig really loving deep to find the gold. And then of course the rest of the show and the movie ran with that Knight in a Brown Coat bullshit.

Mat Cauthon
Jan 2, 2006

The more tragic things get, the more I feel like laughing.



Grain of salt here but I don't get how Johns is still in charge of anything when stories like these seem to drop every other week.

https://twitter.com/PopCrave/status/1379443867972427776?s=19

Jimbot
Jul 22, 2008



The excuses their spokesperson gave in that Hollywood Report piece were the most "white person defense" poo poo I've ever seen.

"He loves the LGBTQ community. He did [x thing] one time!" "He identifies as Lebanese American!" "He loves the black and asian ladies so much he married them, how can he be racist!" He would have looked better if he didn't have anyone say anything in response.

VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE
Aug 1, 2004

whoa, what just happened here?





College Slice

"continuity notes"

Continuity to Joss Whedon's unused Wonder Woman spec script?

bushisms.txt
May 26, 2004

Scroll, then. There are other posts than these.



Mat Cauthon posted:

Grain of salt here but I don't get how Johns is still in charge of anything when stories like these seem to drop every other week.

https://twitter.com/PopCrave/status/1379443867972427776?s=19

Maybe he should've dated a gay black dude.

Blood Boils
Dec 27, 2006

Its not an S, on my planet it means QUIPS


Hair Elf

It's sad how many adults seem to think bigotry is some kind of 'bad guy hat' that you wear, and if you're not wearing the hat then nothing you say or do can possibly be problematic

McCloud
Oct 27, 2005





https://twitter.com/kimmasters/status/1379427741179785216?s=20

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/a...-for-leadership


https://twitter.com/DCsMANJI/status/1379427754949537792?s=19

Jenny Agutter
Mar 18, 2009



after Fisher relented on saying the "booyah" line

quote:

As he arrived on set, he says, Whedon stretched out his arms and said a line from Hamlet in a mocking tone: "Speak the speech, I pray you, as I pronounced it to you."

whedon needs to be insanely brutally bullied for the rest of his life

Mat Cauthon
Jan 2, 2006

The more tragic things get, the more I feel like laughing.



Immensely lovely that Ray Fisher's career is going to be the only one to really take a hit here.

Also pretty interesting that Affleck of all people tried to get the rest of the main cast to walk out in protest of Whedon's bullshit. Wouldn't have expected that.

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ImpAtom
May 24, 2007



Mat Cauthon posted:

Immensely lovely that Ray Fisher's career is going to be the only one to really take a hit here.

Also pretty interesting that Affleck of all people tried to get the rest of the main cast to walk out in protest of Whedon's bullshit. Wouldn't have expected that.

It is absurdly lovely that Geoff Johns and Whedon both get to just hole up and wait for it to 'blow over'

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