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McCloud
Oct 27, 2005





Vintersorg posted:

Someone on these boards said this and I was like, holy poo poo - you're right.

GoT went from being this insane pop culture behemoth that was EVERYWHERE to utterly despised in less than a year. It's unprecedented. No one really cares about it anymore aside from knowing it turned to utter poo poo.

Mass Effect. They're actually very similar in that they botched the landing so bad they accidentally burned the franchise to the ground and then salted the earth


Schwarzwald posted:

Who utterly despises Avatar?

Me!

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Everyone
Sep 6, 2019



Honestly, no. I remember occasionally tuning in to other shows like Suits where Rick Hoffman's Louis Litt would say "A Lannister pays his debts."

Hell, talking Battlestar Galactica I remember "Frak" showing up on Veronica Mars.

Even when it making assloads of money I don't remember Avatar making any real impact on the popular culture at the time. No quotes from the movie. "Unobtanium" wasn't a thing anywhere. Girls weren't wearing super-high heels and painting their skin blue. Yeah, a lot of people spent a lot of money to watch that movie, but it was only ever just a movie as I recall it.

Lost and BSG were genuine cultural phenomenons at the time. Their influence faded after they went off the air, sure. That said, I don't think I've seen as fast a turnaround on something as what happened with Game of Thrones where it seemed like it was everywhere and then it just completely disappeared.

Megaman's Jockstrap
Jul 16, 2000

What a horrible thread to have a post.


McCloud posted:

Mass Effect. They're actually very similar in that they botched the landing so bad they accidentally burned the franchise to the ground and then salted the earth

I would have thought this too but I guess Mass Effect Legendary Edition is selling pretty well? A little bit astonished at that but w/e

Zero One
Dec 30, 2004

Z is the new C


The theme park is good.

FilthyImp
Sep 30, 2002

Nope



Megaman's Jockstrap posted:

I would have thought this too but I guess Mass Effect Legendary Edition is selling pretty well? A little bit astonished at that but w/e
Well the first 2 are still great stories. And I think they added or rebranded things for the remaster, but people enjoyed the game play (especially the broke-rear end poo poo in 2 with biotics).
It's just any enjoyment of a story or plot that progresses past that is ... pretty bad.

FilthyImp fucked around with this message at 22:44 on Jun 3, 2021

Inzombiac
Mar 19, 2007

PARTY ALL NIGHT

EAT BRAINS ALL DAY


Neurolimal
Nov 3, 2012


I liked Invincible, liked The Boys, would have been on-board with Snyder's Bat Max film, was ambivalent on the Watchmen series, Jupiter's Legacy is honestly the first big miss on the Bad Superman concept for me, and from what i'm hearing I've no idea if they even get that deep into Bad Superman before they were canceled. I've still got interest in the Injustice cartoon, at the least.

I'd like to see more Batman Bad, but I guess that's too easy of a target. How's the White Knight series?

Away all Goats
Jul 5, 2005

Goose's rebellion


Vintersorg posted:

Someone on these boards said this and I was like, holy poo poo - you're right.

GoT went from being this insane pop culture behemoth that was EVERYWHERE to utterly despised in less than a year. It's unprecedented. No one really cares about it anymore aside from knowing it turned to utter poo poo.

You can't even enjoy old clips because it just reminds you that their character arc or actions are utterly meaningless. Now which character am I talking about? Exactly.

It's hilarious how badly they hosed the entire thing retroactively.

Away all Goats fucked around with this message at 00:23 on Jun 4, 2021

Klungar
Feb 12, 2008

Klungo make bessst ever video game, 'Hero Klungo Sssavesss Teh World.'


Lost and BSG may have had disappointing endings but by and large they didnt betray their characters in doing so, and their deus ex machina endings were both literally due to actual gods loving around. GoT betrayed its characters and had plot endings that made no sense without any bullshit mystical explanation, just plain lovely writing.

Xealot
Nov 25, 2002

Showdown in the Galaxy Era.



Everyone posted:

Even when it making assloads of money I don't remember Avatar making any real impact on the popular culture at the time. No quotes from the movie. "Unobtanium" wasn't a thing anywhere. Girls weren't wearing super-high heels and painting their skin blue. Yeah, a lot of people spent a lot of money to watch that movie, but it was only ever just a movie as I recall it.

Lost and BSG were genuine cultural phenomenons at the time. Their influence faded after they went off the air, sure. That said, I don't think I've seen as fast a turnaround on something as what happened with Game of Thrones where it seemed like it was everywhere and then it just completely disappeared.

For all the talk of Avatar having no pop cultural impact, people sure do talk about it a lot 12 years later. People constantly drag it for being unremarkable and unmemorable, then point out tons of specific stuff they remember about it, the Na'vi and Jakesully and the floating mountains and red dragon-bird and poo poo. I don't disagree that the plot is extremely derivative, but it's cinematically very impressive and clearly much more memorable than, like, Battleship or Independence Day 2 or however many Transformers movies there are.

People don't necessarily reference Avatar day-to-day, cosplay as characters from it or name their children Neytiri or whatever, but I see it more as precedent-setting in a film form sense. For one, I think Avatar shares credit with LotR for popularizing and normalizing all-mocap CG performances as center-stage in a big movie, which is today super common across genre media. It was also a real success story of cinematic exhibition gimmicks in the modern era, selling a specific "theater-as-thrill-ride" experience that tons of other movies have since (tried to) capitalize on. I'd argue that Chris Nolan's auteur pitches for IMAX and what-not have become official marketing for his movies today because James Cameron so successfully used his clout to accomplish something similar. Maybe the narrative of Avatar wasn't that impactful, but the production was: blockbuster movies started to look very different after 2009.

Lost is another one of those. People don't necessarily care about Jack or Sawyer or the smoke monster or whatever anymore, but I do think that show changed consumer tastes in television writing: it was a mass-popular show with complex non-linear storytelling. It jumped character POV frequently, and used editing in self-conscious ways to mislead or manipulate viewers in a manner you'd previously only have seen in 90's indie films and things. In that sense, I'd compare Lost to Twin Peaks as a popular turning point for television becoming more "cinematic." The form of Lost, jumping around large casts and time periods and such, and (for better or worse) the "mystery box" and "subvert expectation" aspects, absolutely persist today.

Xealot fucked around with this message at 01:16 on Jun 4, 2021

porfiria
Dec 10, 2008


Xealot posted:

For all the talk of Avatar having no pop cultural impact, people sure do talk about it a lot 12 years later. People constantly drag it for being unremarkable and unmemorable, then point out tons of specific stuff they remember about it, the Na'vi and Jakesully and the floating mountains and red dragon-bird and poo poo. I don't disagree that the plot is extremely derivative, but it's cinematically very impressive and clearly much more memorable than, like, Battleship or Independence Day 2 or however many Transformers movies there are.

People don't necessarily reference Avatar day-to-day, cosplay as characters from it or name their children Neytiri or whatever, but I see it more as precedent-setting in a film form sense. For one, I think Avatar shares credit with LotR for popularizing and normalizing all-mocap CG performances as center-stage in a big movie, which is today super common across genre media. It was also a real success story of cinematic exhibition gimmicks in the modern era, selling a specific "theater-as-thrill-ride" experience that tons of other movies have since (tried to) capitalize on. I'd argue that Chris Nolan's auteur pitches for IMAX and what-not have become official marketing for his movies today because James Cameron so successfully used his clout to accomplish something similar. Maybe the narrative of Avatar wasn't that impactful, but the production was: blockbuster movies started to look very different after 2009.

Lost is another one of those. People don't necessarily care about Jack or Sawyer or the smoke monster or whatever anymore, but I do think that show changed consumer tastes in television writing: it was a mass-popular show with complex non-linear storytelling. It jumped character POV frequently, and used editing in self-conscious ways to mislead or manipulate viewers in a manner you'd previously only have seen in 90's indie films and things. In that sense, I'd compare Lost to Twin Peaks as a popular turning point for television becoming more "cinematic." The form of Lost, jumping around large casts and time periods and such, and (for better or worse) the "mystery box" and "subvert expectation" aspects, absolutely persist today.

Yeah!

Also, I get that people have hard feelings about GOT (which honestly kind of sucked from the jump), but even if it had had a good or even passable ending, what would there be to talk about at this point? The themes?

When people say no one's talking about X anymore, don't they mean no one's marketing X anymore?

FilthyImp
Sep 30, 2002

Nope



There were literally people being diagnosed with Avatar Detachment from visiting the Disney park and being bummed they too couldn't be 8 ft tall catpeople

CelticPredator
Oct 11, 2013



FilthyImp posted:

There were literally people being diagnosed with Avatar Detachment from visiting the Disney park and being bummed they too couldn't be 8 ft tall catpeople

This happened when the movie came out. Did it happen again?

Martman
Nov 20, 2006

SEXY... defines my posts and my ride


porfiria posted:

Yeah!

Also, I get that people have hard feelings about GOT (which honestly kind of sucked from the jump), but even if it had had a good or even passable ending, what would there be to talk about at this point? The themes?

When people say no one's talking about X anymore, don't they mean no one's marketing X anymore?
You could talk about stuff like what is meant or represented by the mysterious godlike forces in the GoT universe instead of them existing for literally no other reason than plot contrivance. It's not just the ending, it's that they abandoned any point or statement at all in favor of winding down every lingering thread with as little thought or effort as possible.

And honestly, it's possible GRRM had something kind of like that in mind in the first place. Like, maybe the gods are just a bunch of assholes. But in the show at least, it turned from "reality doesn't conform to cliche fantasy" into "actually this story will abuse absolutely any bullshit or cliche contrivance if it can lead to a scene that feels badass for 30 seconds" and that's a pretty big departure

Martman fucked around with this message at 05:04 on Jun 4, 2021

RBA Starblade
Apr 27, 2008

Going Home.
Games Idiot Court Jester


My favorite part of the GOT ending was how the answer to the question "Who has a better story than Bran the Broken" was "Anyone"

josh04
Oct 19, 2008

I'll see you in the dome





porfiria posted:

When people say no one's talking about X anymore, don't they mean no one's marketing X anymore?

Think this is the bulk of it; everything is either a franchise or a nostalgia revival now so when something isn't getting seventeen screenrant articles written about it every day, even the biggest shows and films on earth feel like they fell off the radar.

McCloud
Oct 27, 2005





https://twitter.com/BudrykZack/status/1400630096592003074?s=19

The MSJ
May 17, 2010



https://twitter.com/ign/status/1400603461058797569?s=21

Darko
Dec 23, 2004



Avatar didn't have sequels or spinoff stuff. It's just 3 hours that sits alone.

If Marvel didn't make a movie after Iron Man 1, nobody would be talking about that, either.

Game of Thrones was a multi-year 70 or whatever hour investment of attention that had people talking about it for nearly a decade. Because it ends so bad, people don't really like bringing it up much any more like they do Breaking Bad (which also has a current prequel series) or The Wire or something. It's kind of like Dexter (also getting a sequel) where the ending just makes people stop talking about it almost immediately. Might be some investment embarrassment due to the time involved.

Note that GoT didn't just have a bad ending; it tacked the book ending onto 3 nonsensical made up seasons that made it even worse because none of it fit.

Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009


Darko posted:

Avatar didn't have sequels or spinoff stuff. It's just 3 hours that sits alone.

They announced 4 sequels (one of which is a spinoff) last year.

The first one - "Avatar: The Way of Water" - comes out next year.

Darko
Dec 23, 2004



Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

They announced 4 sequels (one of which is a spinoff) last year.

The first one - "Avatar: The Way of Water" - comes out next year.

Right, but without actual sequels or TV tie ins to keep things in the public eye, blockbusters go away. It's been forever where Avatar was just standing alone as it's own thing.

Wasn't the same in the past where there were constant new re-releases of the same movie to make sure everyone saw it and that it became an event all over again, too. Once video was widespread, franchises took over for keeping people talking about things.

MiddleOne
Feb 17, 2011



Darko posted:

Wasn't the same in the past where there were constant new re-releases of the same movie to make sure everyone saw it and that it became an event all over again, too.

Justice League.

live with fruit
Aug 15, 2010


Darko posted:

Right, but without actual sequels or TV tie ins to keep things in the public eye, blockbusters go away. It's been forever where Avatar was just standing alone as it's own thing.

Wasn't the same in the past where there were constant new re-releases of the same movie to make sure everyone saw it and that it became an event all over again, too. Once video was widespread, franchises took over for keeping people talking about things.

People still go on and on about whether or not Jack could've gotten on the door in Titanic. That movie came out 24 years ago and has managed to stay in the public consciousness without a sequel.

Neurolimal
Nov 3, 2012


For what it's worth, "lol blue cat people, penis hair" jokes were everywhere when Avatar first hit. It definitely invaded the zeitgeist, for however fleeting a time.

Mainly, I'm just happy that James Cameron got a carte blanche check to go diving under the guise of making a sequel.

Timeless Appeal
May 28, 2006


Darko posted:

Right, but without actual sequels or TV tie ins to keep things in the public eye, blockbusters go away. It's been forever where Avatar was just standing alone as it's own thing.

Wasn't the same in the past where there were constant new re-releases of the same movie to make sure everyone saw it and that it became an event all over again, too. Once video was widespread, franchises took over for keeping people talking about things.
I think the move to streaming has somewhat exasperated it. Pople trash the Disney remakes--mostly rightfully. But it really just an evolution of what they've been doing for years:

Re-release->Disney Vault->Remake

Streaming sunk the notion of the Disney Vault and big home releases, so now you just make a "new" movie.

The MSJ
May 17, 2010



Collapsing Farts
Jun 29, 2018

💀

Bran got tossed out a window, then dragged by others to the north who died for him for no good reason. Then he got possessed by a creepy wizard no one knows or understands. Then he did nothing at all during the siege of winterfell while everyone was dying for him and... was later crowned king, for no reason at all.

Truly the greatest story

Klungar
Feb 12, 2008

Klungo make bessst ever video game, 'Hero Klungo Sssavesss Teh World.'



So is Rorschach showing up in this one?

thrawn527
Mar 27, 2004

Thrawn/Pellaeon
Studying the art of terrorists
To keep you safe


Batman shouldn't be eating so many jelly donuts. At this rate, he's definitely going to weight a little more than a hundred and eight.

Darko
Dec 23, 2004



live with fruit posted:

People still go on and on about whether or not Jack could've gotten on the door in Titanic. That movie came out 24 years ago and has managed to stay in the public consciousness without a sequel.

Titanic super memed, so they repeat memes. Nobody talked about anything in ID4 as far as the movie itself, but because the racist "Welcome to Earf!" meme hit, it stayed in culture. Only thing people talk about in Seven is "what's in the bix," and so on. Avatar has few meme worthy lines and stuff so it doesn't get shared in that way, but being memed is different from real discourse about the movie.

RBA Starblade
Apr 27, 2008

Going Home.
Games Idiot Court Jester


Darko posted:

Titanic super memed, so they repeat memes. Nobody talked about anything in ID4 as far as the movie itself, but because the racist "Welcome to Earf!" meme hit, it stayed in culture.

"In the words of my generation, UP YOURS" and "Hello boys, I'm baaack!" come up a lot too

Pillowpants
Aug 5, 2006


Everyone posted:

Honestly, no. I remember occasionally tuning in to other shows like Suits where Rick Hoffman's Louis Litt would say "A Lannister pays his debts."

Hell, talking Battlestar Galactica I remember "Frak" showing up on Veronica Mars.

Even when it making assloads of money I don't remember Avatar making any real impact on the popular culture at the time. No quotes from the movie. "Unobtanium" wasn't a thing anywhere. Girls weren't wearing super-high heels and painting their skin blue. Yeah, a lot of people spent a lot of money to watch that movie, but it was only ever just a movie as I recall it.

Lost and BSG were genuine cultural phenomenons at the time. Their influence faded after they went off the air, sure. That said, I don't think I've seen as fast a turnaround on something as what happened with Game of Thrones where it seemed like it was everywhere and then it just completely disappeared.

Dexter after Season 4.

I just watched Avatar with my son a few weeks ago - why do people hate it now?

Pillowpants fucked around with this message at 16:47 on Jun 4, 2021

Blood Boils
Dec 27, 2006

Its not an S, on my planet it means QUIPS


Hair Elf

It's a pretty straightforward white saviour story underneath the veneer of anti-colonialism

Everyone
Sep 6, 2019


live with fruit posted:

People still go on and on about whether or not Jack could've gotten on the door in Titanic. That movie came out 24 years ago and has managed to stay in the public consciousness without a sequel.

As witness this hilarious bit from Season Four of The Flash featuring drunk Barry.

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

Don't Blink


Klungar posted:

So is Rorschach showing up in this one?

Its astonishing how much weight Watchmen still holds over comic book culture's consciousness.

Pillowpants posted:

I just watched Avatar with my son a few weeks ago - why do people hate it now?

It's a solid film, but the basic James Cameron schtick hits a little different when the focus is on a white guy colonist.

Schwarzwald fucked around with this message at 17:33 on Jun 4, 2021

Collapsing Farts
Jun 29, 2018

💀

They're aliens though

Shageletic
Jul 25, 2007






Guy A. Person posted:

This is legitimately hilarious and stupid because the entire hook of the Jupiter's Legacy comic is that they rush past all that boring setup and the series basically starts with the heroes old and their kids as adults hosed up by their life in the spotlight, and by the end of issue 3 there has already been a coup leaving the Utopian and his wife dead. It sounds like they intentionally hosed up the only remotely interesting aspect of the comic so they could draw poo poo out and milk it because they thought people would just eat up any super hero poo poo at all.

And yeah ditto'ing the fact that even my friends who are super hero obsessed and see every cape thing in theaters and are caught up on almost any media featuring super heroes haven't said the remotest peep about this show. Good riddance and hopefully this fucks up Millar's stock and he fucks off somewhere where he can't bother people.

Read up on that comic (gave up after reading the 1st comic). The reasons for that spoiler text seem dumb as hell just from reading the summary.

Jedit
Dec 10, 2011

Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014




Here's something the backlash brigade evidently aren't aware of: Death has already appeared as a black woman in a canon comic.

wyoming
Jun 7, 2010

Like a television
tuned to a dead channel.



Oh no, wax!

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Blood Boils
Dec 27, 2006

Its not an S, on my planet it means QUIPS


Hair Elf

Collapsing Farts posted:

They're aliens though

Fictional aliens, deliberately designed using new agey stereotypes of real indigenous peoples

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