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Water flows downhill, levees are a full tile, dams are either half a tile or three quarters, not sure, I think three quarters though. If you block off a river entirely, it will fill up and then overflow onto the next layer, if the blockage is one tile high then it will flow over it, but also flood the sides of the river a bit too. If the blockage is more than one tile high the river will flood sideways until it either finds a way around the blockage, or until it fills up the next layer. If you build a lot of blocks on top of each other to build a wall across a valley and there is a river on one side and it floods the valley so that you now have a big pile of water, you have invented the reservoir.
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Sep 17, 2021 21:14
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Things that I lost saves to include: Thinking that a 5-tile-wide levee where one tile is a flood gate set to 0 height would allow enough water to flow out to not flood me (Didn't realize the game is that granular about flow rate since I couldn't find any info about how much water was flowing through the river) Destroying a blockage to add a branch to the river except then there wasn't enough flow into my main area to keep water in it and then it all drained offscreen somewhere way down the line next drought Added a dam upriver/uphill which then for some reason made my downriver/downhill reservoir go dry next drought (This is where I assume I just don't know fluid dynamics, shouldn't water still be caught in the downhill reservoir? I don't know why the uphill dam made my downhill reservoir ignore its dam) deep dish peat moss fucked around with this message at 21:30 on Sep 17, 2021 |
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Sep 17, 2021 21:25
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deep dish peat moss posted:Things that I lost saves to include: The downstream reservoir probably got pumped dry? Sounds like you needed to release some water from upstream.
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Sep 17, 2021 21:35
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Yeah if you are drawing from the lower reservoir then if you dam off the top one you have cut off its supply for the duration it takes to fill, the downstream basically experienced double drought that year. Also the more surface area of the map you cover in water, the more you lose to evaporation, so if you make the river wider upstream you are also basically decreasing the flow rate to downstream because it boils off faster. This can get significant once you start flooding large areas of the map. Using one tile wide gaps and large reservoirs to moderate flow is actually a viable way to keep the riverbed wet for longer periods of time, you essentially take the pulsed input of max flow/no flow from the source and turn it into a constant, reduced flow. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 21:39 on Sep 17, 2021 |
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Sep 17, 2021 21:37
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It's not just from using all the water, I kept trying to do something like this: I'd build Dam 1 and everything would work flawlessly for several cycles (With water stored in the dam 1-level river during droughts, but not the dam 2-level river), but then as soon as I build Dam 2, the river behind Dam 1 would fully drain as soon as the drought started, as if its dam wasn't there at all. I can't really wrap my head around that because as far as I know Dam 1 should hold the water there in the same capacity regardless of whether Dam 2 exists or not because the water is already there when the drought starts, right? Dam 2 would not change the water level needed for Dam 1 to overflow deep dish peat moss fucked around with this message at 21:44 on Sep 17, 2021 |
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Sep 17, 2021 21:39
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Did you build dam 2 higher than the source blocks of the river? I do not think rivers can get higher than their source blocks so it is possible that if it is close to the same height as the source block you have seriously compromised the amount of water flowing downstream. Even flooding up to near their height I think slows down their rate of emission somewhat. Basically I think you want to keep the source blocks as free as possible to maximise their output.
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Sep 17, 2021 21:41
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The dams were all built at water level (in the river and only 1 tile high), I'm not sure if Dam 2 was higher than the source blocks but that upper level river where Dam 2 got built is where the river was reaching me from initially. I think in one of the maps (Terraces?) you do start right next to the source blocks but this happened to me on a few different maps. Basically it felt like when the drought starts, the game deletes/drops all existing water and then flows X amount from the source blocks, and that was getting stuck at Dam 2 and not making it down to Dam 1, instead of just holding the water that was already in Dam 1 when the drought started. I don't know if that's what was actually happening but that was my assumption when it was happening. From a game mechanical perspective that actually makes some sense because otherwise you could defeat the entire water system by just digging a big pit and filling it with water or building a series of terraced reservoirs (which is I think how real, human-built dams operate sometimes but maybe not beaver dams?), which is essentially what my end-game was. But I could not wrap my head around whether this was happening because it's supposed to, or because I built something wrong, or because of a bug, and when I tried to figure it out I gave up because I have no idea how water and dams are supposed to operate 
deep dish peat moss fucked around with this message at 21:54 on Sep 17, 2021 |
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Sep 17, 2021 21:42
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It doesn't delete water, but a surface can be covered in flowing water but the flow is actually paper thin, you can use the depth stick to check, or read off of cliffs/staircases into the river, but it absolutely does not delete water. A thin surface flow of water, however, will disappear very quickly when the source is cut off, and it is quite easy to pump out sections of river during a drought if you are not careful about this. The central spire on terraces for example cannot support more than one pump during a 7 day drought, it will pump dry before it finishes. Terraced dams is exactly how you want to play most maps, but you also need to spread your pumps out based on the size and depth of the reservoir you have at each level or they will pump dry easily.
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Sep 17, 2021 22:15
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I don't know then - I was already following all of the advice re: this that has been posted so I'm not sure what was going wrong, but that's why I'm done with the game  I'd boot it up to look at my builds again but I already uninstalled it and can't be bothered.
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Sep 17, 2021 22:22
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I just stumbled on this trick. See that waterwheel? It's running even though it's in the middle of a drought and no water is flowing over the top of the lower dam.
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Sep 17, 2021 23:21
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 Night view of my residential area. It works fairly well from what I can tell. The distribution center kinda looks like a market and while a more central location might be more efficient it doesn't use up valuable fertile land.
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Sep 17, 2021 23:46
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How do gateways work? For instance, if I build a district gate at the spot marked by the yellow arrow does that mean that my first settlement loses access to the tree nursery at the right? What happens when two settlements' boundaries overlap?
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Sep 17, 2021 23:57
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It means the road networks are separated and beavers from one district can’t use the roads of the other. You could build another road to the tree nursery from either side of the gate and they can still access it. Districts only explicitly divide road networks.
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Sep 17, 2021 23:58
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Huh. Okay, so if I don't build that gate, what happens when I build a new district right there? I'm trying to figure out the mechanics of dividing off part of your territory into a district.
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Sep 18, 2021 00:01
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Arsenic Lupin posted:Huh. Okay, so if I don't build that gate, what happens when I build a new district right there? I'm trying to figure out the mechanics of dividing off part of your territory into a district. You can't, a new district can only be built next to a road separated by one of those gates. Basically one of those buildings only per district and you section off the roads with the gate so you can build another one.
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Sep 18, 2021 00:02
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To build on that (and I mentioned it in my longer post about districts earlier) you can build a bunch of stuff on the edge of a district and then go back, divide it off by a gate, and slap a new district center behind it. Super good way to build up a new district to get it on its feet.
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Sep 18, 2021 00:07
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So what is the basic strategy for budding off a district? Go to a promising location, build housing, water, and trees, then put a gate on the road and declare it a district? e: Whoops, xpost.
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Sep 18, 2021 00:15
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The new UI is a wonderful change for Foundation. Much easier to work with now.
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Sep 18, 2021 00:18
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Arsenic Lupin posted:So what is the basic strategy for budding off a district? Go to a promising location, build housing, water, and trees, then put a gate on the road and declare it a district? I saved up enough Science points for the distribution stuff in the Labor tab so I was able to bring logs and planks to the new district. Then I just moved 2 or 3 beavs in and made sure they got building asap. I made one across the river in the default map where all of my potato farming/cooking is going on, then have the cooked potatoes carried back to my original district.
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Sep 18, 2021 00:20
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Arsenic Lupin posted:So what is the basic strategy for budding off a district? Go to a promising location, build housing, water, and trees, then put a gate on the road and declare it a district? That's what I like to do, but you don't even need a promising location if you intend to keep the pop small. (Like, for example, if you only want the new district to gather scrap metal, or as a transit station to a further, more important district where you're going to build a dam.) You can generally feed a small district with just a distribution center from your main hub. If they have a decent spot, though, you could essentially just start up a new independent town. e: also yeah, even if only for emergencies, having connected distribution centers/drop offs is pretty important.
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Sep 18, 2021 00:21
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I was very happy to realize I could reach scrap metal from my starting district on the plains map. Makes things so more convenient, I was worried how I was going to get food and more importantly water out to the place.
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Sep 18, 2021 00:23
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I think you can also just delete the first district center and replace it in any direction, but obviously if you've already built to your borders you'd then cut off whatever now can't be reached.
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Sep 18, 2021 00:24
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If you delete a district it assigns all the beavs to other districts though, so you have to put them back again. Otherwise yes you can move the district center around, and it doesn't even gently caress up things like distribution orders because those are stored in the distro buildings, not the district center.
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Sep 18, 2021 00:48
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Anime Store Adventure posted:It means the road networks are separated and beavers from one district can’t use the roads of the other. You could build another road to the tree nursery from either side of the gate and they can still access it. Specifically, woodcutting range is defined by the lumberjack flag, so what you would need to do is add a lumberjack flag to both sides of the gate which would be serviced by beavers from different districts, who could both go cut down the same trees, but the wood will go back to their respective flags and not be transferred between districts.
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Sep 18, 2021 00:49
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I'm having trouble with the geometry of this. Second (attempted) district. Impeccably drawn red arrow points to district gate. Why aren't the houses at the lower right, as well as the drop-off center at the lower right, connected to the district at top left?
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Sep 18, 2021 01:44
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Too far away, look at the pathing line from the district, it goes from green to red and stops before it hits them. Buildings need a direct path connection to the district center, the white area is the district center's build radius which expands outward from roads, but buildings need a direct connection. If you complete the dam at the top it will likely connect as that will reduce the path distance.
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Sep 18, 2021 01:46
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Ohhhh. I had been interpreting that line as traffic density. Length of path makes so much more sense. (hits head) Does your pick-up point go inside your own border, or does it go just inside the sender's border?
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Sep 18, 2021 01:55
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I've got my first save where I'm starting to actually really like the look of some of my buildings. This is on mountain range with iron teeth. Food storehouse (one for each food) with a cool roof.  Deep pumps! These can actually go another two units lower. They rule.  More roofs. They look so good, but they're a pain to make that way (because they're technically two pieces and the top needs a platform to reach.)  Logs/Planks/Gears storage. Wish I hadn't blocked the view with that water, but alas.  The whole map so far. This is going to be a very good map for the Ironteeth and their deep pumps, stackable log storage, and weird tall houses.
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Sep 18, 2021 01:56
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Arsenic Lupin posted:Ohhhh. I had been interpreting that line as traffic density. Length of path makes so much more sense. (hits head) Does your pick-up point go inside your own border, or does it go just inside the sender's border? The drop off point needs to go inside the district you want to send things to, it is just a building that stores goods and that beavers will take items to if assigned to by a distribution center from another district, beavers can eat, drink, or get materials from it, and as with all buildings it will not share resources outside its district, unless you have a distribution center in that district instructed to send goods elsewhere, in which case it is a valid target for them to pick up from like all other buildings. Anime Store Adventure posted:
Oh gently caress I never thought to do that, that's a really nice design for the storehouse.
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Sep 18, 2021 02:01
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Is there a way to make the game let you leave the camera actually down a ways? I get the camera low enough and it just snaps back to a certain elevation. It would be nice if it stopped fighting me.
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Sep 18, 2021 02:04
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OwlFancier posted:
If you don't need a big storehouse on the 'second' story, you could set a small warehouse on the back 2x3 and put the stairs between the front 1x3 gap and it would be flush with the road!
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Sep 18, 2021 02:05
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Alkydere posted:Is there a way to make the game let you leave the camera actually down a ways? I get the camera low enough and it just snaps back to a certain elevation. It would be nice if it stopped fighting me. Unlock camera in settings.
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Sep 18, 2021 02:05
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Anime Store Adventure posted:Unlock camera in settings. I swear I read through that menu line by line at least 10 times. Three more times even after you told me what to look for before I found it.
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Sep 18, 2021 02:11
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Glad you folks are enjoying Timberborn! Still have to watch a get started video myself.
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Sep 18, 2021 02:18
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how do i get my beavers to gently caress, goddamn my beavs dying faster of old age than they are making little ones
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Sep 18, 2021 02:54
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breadnsucc posted:how do i get my beavers to gently caress, goddamn my beavs dying faster of old age than they are making little ones There's definitely a spiral you can fall into if a few die and some are old at the wrong time - my friend had a terrible time right around 8 beavers where it took him like a whole cycle or two to get back up to 10, then it took off. Make sure they have excess housing and make sure they have their social need met.
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Sep 18, 2021 03:00
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I messed up my food supply and got my population down to 4. Watching them all die of thirst and hunger was a bummer. They're okay now, but things are about to go very bad at the next drought.
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Sep 18, 2021 03:51
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Do the Iron Teeth cloning vats shut down when you get to a district's housing limit or not? Because if not I think i rather prefer the Folktails just for their population self-regulating like that.
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Sep 18, 2021 03:54
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Alkydere posted:Do the Iron Teeth cloning vats shut down when you get to a district's housing limit or not? Because if not I think i rather prefer the Folktails just for their population self-regulating like that. They don't and I think its their biggest annoying 'micro' aspect. That said it is nice to have some flexibility to control your population but as usual, a distracted human is much worse at estimating the hysteresis especially without some graphs or charts. It gets compounded when you extend their lifespans. I built 7 vats with everyone having comfort and nutrition 1 (life expectancy++) I usually only run 4-5 to maintain a population of about 80-90. It is sort of nice to have the extra control, but it would be cool if there was some automation to it.
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Sep 18, 2021 04:08
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Other than them being dead, there are actually no downsides to killing large chunks of your population, they cannot work or make new beavers, but you can scale back to small numbers of beavers to ensure someone survives a drought, simply by sending anyone you don't want to a district that can't support them where they will starve, then a handful of beavers can eat the stockpiles of a much larger population which also do not rot, and so can likely sustain them for a very long time. There is no equivalent of the tantrum spiral where your entire colony collapses, unless you collapse because the food or water ran out with no way to make more.
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Sep 18, 2021 04:17
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