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Good lord, Sweet Transit becomes a never-ending loop of needing more X or Y. Especially building materials because most buildings besides the initial ones have an upkeep cost. So you keep having to build more lumber mills and quarries because the bakeries you just built had a stone and wood upkeep. Oh and now you have to get more workers to them. Which might mean more or bigger trains, or more workers. The former means more coal upkeep, the latter means more construction material upkeep as you build buildings to satisfy them. Which means another lumber mill, its workers...
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Aug 14, 2022 04:55
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Hahaha money counter go dingdingdingdingdingding
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Aug 14, 2022 04:57
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Alkydere posted:Good lord, Sweet Transit becomes a never-ending loop of needing more X or Y. Especially building materials because most buildings besides the initial ones have an upkeep cost. So you keep having to build more lumber mills and quarries because the bakeries you just built had a stone and wood upkeep. Oh and now you have to get more workers to them. Which might mean more or bigger trains, or more workers. The former means more coal upkeep, the latter means more construction material upkeep as you build buildings to satisfy them. Which means another lumber mill, its workers... Yeah this was the problem I saw in the demo. It's not a decision making game, it's a "well now you have to do this again" game. That's not great. I hope they do something to address it.
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Aug 14, 2022 05:20
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I like it, but I feel the current loop is a bit too tight/not enough slack so it gets stressful quick.
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Aug 14, 2022 05:23
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NoNotTheMindProbe posted:Banished is actually the weakest of the Banished-likes. Some of the more notable one's I've played: I've put too many hours in all of those games.
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Aug 14, 2022 06:14
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NoNotTheMindProbe posted:Banished is actually the weakest of the Banished-likes. Some of the more notable one's I've played: Dawn of Man is really great, even if it has some balancing issues with technological progess (it becomes grindy every now and then). It has a strong feeling of progression, short-but-effective combat and it seems to avoid the bane of banished-likes, which could be summarized as 'dumb villagers' Kingdoms Reborn doesn't avoid that bane. Still good otherwise, even if the card game twist becomes irrelevant an hour or so into the game. Wipfmetz fucked around with this message at 13:18 on Aug 14, 2022 |
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Aug 14, 2022 12:02
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Where the hell do you forage anything in Farthest Frontier? I'm a few years in and the entire landscape is nothing but sand and gold and coal, there is no groundwater and soil fertility is 5% at max anywhere. There is literally nothing to forage and I'm trying to figure out how to make soap. Do you get herbs from somewhere else?
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Aug 14, 2022 14:40
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Hyper Crab Tank posted:Where the hell do you forage anything in Farthest Frontier? I'm a few years in and the entire landscape is nothing but sand and gold and coal, there is no groundwater and soil fertility is 5% at max anywhere. There is literally nothing to forage and I'm trying to figure out how to make soap. Do you get herbs from somewhere else? Press F4 to highlight pickups on the hud. But if you're already doing that, the game feels highly biome/seed dependent. Some resources just won't exist, forcing you to buy the stuff you're missing from traders. I've only played two biomes so I'm not sure if one of them gives you access to all resources, but the two I tried certainly did not have everything. I haven't taken the time to test a bunch of seeds to see how much that changes things.
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Aug 14, 2022 15:06
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Hyper Crab Tank posted:Where the hell do you forage anything in Farthest Frontier? I'm a few years in and the entire landscape is nothing but sand and gold and coal, there is no groundwater and soil fertility is 5% at max anywhere. There is literally nothing to forage and I'm trying to figure out how to make soap. Do you get herbs from somewhere else? There should be big bunches of eggs, leafy herbs, and berries around to get. FF's biggest issue right now seems to be that while randomizing starts is good, you typically would have a baseline area around the start with basic resources but arranged differently, and then from there you can change the expanded map more drastically. But FF doesn't have that so a lot of people are starting on entirely unplayable maps.
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Aug 14, 2022 15:12
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CuddleCryptid posted:But FF doesn't have that so a lot of people are starting on entirely unplayable maps. I think this is what happened, because I've explored a fair distance around my starting location and the the entire map is just this as far as the eye can see:  There is a single forest full of wolves and deer but nothing else, a lake with some fish, and that's about it. The rest is just dead trees and sand and gold.
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Aug 14, 2022 15:15
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CuddleCryptid posted:There should be big bunches of eggs, leafy herbs, and berries around to get. How much of this, do you think, is people not looking/scrolling around enough to place their starting settlement? I've noticed the area from which you can choose your starting settlement is really large, and I scrolled around a lot to find something good.
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Aug 14, 2022 15:17
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SlyFrog posted:How much of this, do you think, is people not looking/scrolling around enough to place their starting settlement? I've noticed the area from which you can choose your starting settlement is really large, and I scrolled around a lot to find something good.
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Aug 14, 2022 15:28
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WithoutTheFezOn posted:The other day I rerolled about 8 maps all using the lowland seas or whatever biome (the one it says is easiest), and scrolled around the whole illuminated area. Only a couple of them showed any sand at all (I don’t remember ever finding two sandpits) and maybe half showed some coal. Some of them were packed with gatherables, and some were nearly barren. As an aside, is there a way to highlight/filter just a specific resource? I love the aesthetics of the game, but admit that looking for a specific resource in a giant sea of circles can be a little hard. Some are different colors, which makes it easier, but some aren't, and it makes it hard for them to stand out.
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Aug 14, 2022 15:34
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Not that I know of, but for that initial scan I find it’s helpful to press F to show fertility. Not only does it give you that info but it hides the trees and stuff.
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Aug 14, 2022 16:06
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CuddleCryptid posted:FF's biggest issue right now seems to be that while randomizing starts is good, you typically would have a baseline area around the start with basic resources but arranged differently, and then from there you can change the expanded map more drastically. But FF doesn't have that so a lot of people are starting on entirely unplayable maps. I do like the idea of scarcity, it makes the traders an important progression feature instead of just a resource sink. So I think they got a good system, they just need to fine tune it. My current map has nothing but clay for mineral resources as far as the eye can see, it's weird, but it works.
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Aug 14, 2022 16:19
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Allow me to plug my (by now irritating, I'm sure) notion that I hope they eventually do work some type of goals or win conditions into Farthest Frontier. I think the best ones are the ones that people who just want a sandbox game can ignore, but people who want to play toward some game generated goal can use.
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Aug 14, 2022 16:32
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WithoutTheFezOn posted:FF hot fix last night seems to have fixed the farm problem. Also tweaked some of the maintenance costs. I’ve already seen the rat catcher now costs 8 gold/mo instead of 12, and the barracks cost per soldier went from 10 to 8. Compost yard is still 4, and healer house still 30 (ouch). I found it fairly trivial to push up to level 3 given that the parks increase desirability for just a flat initial gold cost and a bit of land. With t2 houses the good income goes considerably up and I've had no issues affording a healer and some defenses.
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Aug 14, 2022 16:48
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Hmm, will have to get back to Dawn of Man, I bounced off of it. And yeah when I was playing Cult of the Lamb I was thinking that there was little way I could determine if the game was any good or not within the two hour window because it's like walking down a road to a place you've never been to. Will you like it? Who knows.
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Aug 14, 2022 17:00
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SlyFrog posted:Allow me to plug my (by now irritating, I'm sure) notion that I hope they eventually do work some type of goals or win conditions into Farthest Frontier. I think the best ones are the ones that people who just want a sandbox game can ignore, but people who want to play toward some game generated goal can use. This is just my weird tastes in games where there's always gotta be an antagonist to beat up, but I think some kind of final stand against the king that you were fleeing might be a cute way to end it. Your town gets so big and successful that they see you as a threat and try to conquer you so you get to play defense mode until someone wins. Another option is newgame+ where a handful of villagers in your town get sick of your poo poo and split off to start a completely different town in some other virgin territory.
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Aug 14, 2022 17:09
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xzzy posted:I do like the idea of scarcity, it makes the traders an important progression feature instead of just a resource sink. So I think they got a good system, they just need to fine tune it. Yeah, I'm not against random scarcity as a game mechanic, I just compare it against something like Oxygen Not Included where every single game starts in the same biome with generally the same material so that new players aren't getting randomly thrown into death march difficulty games before they can get their feet wet, and once you build out from there you start getting "oh, so I'm living next to a volcano, okay" variation. By all means they can make it so you lack coal or whatever on FF but you should at least be able to get some food and wood in every map.
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Aug 14, 2022 17:32
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They also need to make walls bendy like roads. Being limited to straight walls makes for some ugly towns.
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Aug 14, 2022 19:17
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I really appreciate the "scaling" of settlements so far, afforded by reasonable AI. With Tier 2 you should build work camps to provide a permanent supply of wood and stone. Those work camps will end up a short distance away from your settlement (slightly beyond the edge of your initial view range, in my case). Usually, i similar games, this would become a clusterfuck with the transport of goods and labourers walking slowly everywhere, ignoring nearby houses and stuff. Here, it works as you'd think: - The workers use the nearby temporary building for a resupply of warmth and food, or just to take shelter from a blizzard - The workers leave their wood and stone in the camp, an ox cart will take care of transportation to the settlement's storage (you cannot build a work camp before you've build a wagon shop) No idea how to explain it better, sorry.
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Aug 14, 2022 19:29
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SlyFrog posted:Allow me to plug my (by now irritating, I'm sure) notion that I hope they eventually do work some type of goals or win conditions into Farthest Frontier. I think the best ones are the ones that people who just want a sandbox game can ignore, but people who want to play toward some game generated goal can use. It's what I really like about Against The Storm. It identified the decision making levers in strategy games and boiled down it down into that good poo poo feeling of building an ant farm. I play slow and I average a map in 90-120 minutes. It is getting repetitive after 30 hours, and I've never played a map beyond completion yet. As a serial restarter of many of these games, AiT was made for me.
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Aug 14, 2022 20:37
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up until the very newest experimental patch Against the Storm has/had a kinda degenerate strategy where apart from basic survival and maybe completing full supply chains if they fell right into your lap, the game was really just about building up enough fuel to burn it all for happiness, earn favor for high happiness, and then win the game off it they're patching it so that instead of +happiness burning fuel either reduces hostility or (in the case of rarer fuels) offers some other comparable perk, that serves the intended function of offsetting the storm season and/or dangerous glade events but doesn't directly advance the win condition e: the game's not interesting to play beyond completion of a map whatsoever, and it is very repetitive, but at higher difficulty levels it's also genuinely challenging based on a combination of CCG / Slay the Spire-esque drafting, choosing which resources to conserve or expend and when, etc. and should be even more so once that patch goes live Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 20:44 on Aug 14, 2022 |
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Aug 14, 2022 20:42
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This probably gets asked at least a thousand times every 10 pages but: are there any transportation sims out there that are as chill as OpenTTD? Focusing on transportation, not super complex supply chains and all that jazz. Mainly looking for a zen game, something I can just boot up and have a fun time building road or rail to transport people or goods to places. Nothing that'll get super complicated that causes you to stress out about things.
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Aug 14, 2022 21:14
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i think transport fever 2 is like, pretty chill on the supply chain stuff. most things are like, 3 steps. i like it.
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Aug 14, 2022 21:15
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Patch went live, I did the fuel burn is now interesting, instead of just win. But all the win conditions in AtS are "set up the engine and 3X speed it baby" whether it is through food/service for resolve, tool building for caches, or dumping woodcutter's into glades for the rewards. I just really like picking the correct glade to break in, basing my economy on what I see and what I hope for, and spinning plates in similar but not exactly same ways. The metaprogression is dogshit and I'm tired of arguing with dinguses in their discord. Industries of Titan is most similar in feel and loop... But I have never finished a Industry of Titan game since I bout it on EA release a year or so ago
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Aug 14, 2022 21:16
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Jimbot posted:This probably gets asked at least a thousand times every 10 pages but: are there any transportation sims out there that are as chill as OpenTTD? Focusing on transportation, not super complex supply chains and all that jazz. Mainly looking for a zen game, something I can just boot up and have a fun time building road or rail to transport people or goods to places. Nothing that'll get super complicated that causes you to stress out about things. I think Transport Fever 2 is probably the closest to that experience. You can keep the transport chains vanilla or mod them to make them as complex as you want them to be. I usually play the game on easy settings and get my fun out of laying out transport networks and infrastructure. It's pretty and you can have fun just laying out tracks and roads and watch the trains go choo choo.
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Aug 14, 2022 21:19
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queeb posted:i think transport fever 2 is like, pretty chill on the supply chain stuff. most things are like, 3 steps. i like it. Yeah I've often searched for a chill OpenTTD alternative and this is the only other one that kinda scratches the itch.
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Aug 14, 2022 21:19
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Re: farthest frontier I'm going to just echo what I said earlier about trade being really important. I started a new colony that's set in the mountains. No ponds (Reeds for baskets) or clay to be found anywhere, and even wood seems like it'll end up being a pain at some point, but I am loving swimming in gold and other ores. I sold a bunch of ores to buy clay to build the school and bakery, bought heavy tools for a windmill to make the flour for the bakery, and I expect I will be selling more ores for baskets, more clay, pottery, herbs (0 herbs around, too) and other things. I realized that putting your barracks next to your storage and trading post is really important. It will really help fend off raiders and keep them from taking stuff. There's also a garrison civilians button that appears over the town center building that also let's them shoot at raiders. Also definitely put your trade building right next to your storehouse and stockpile so goods can be transferred quickly. Trading for some weapons and armour also really helped. I think it's also going to be important to micromanage storage to keep foodstuffs out of the marketplace so they can go into root cellars instead. The advantage of the markets is that they are close to all the houses theoretically which should decrease travel time but you just lose way too much food to spoilage I think. I'm going to end up running a gold deficit and just making it up through trade, I think. I honestly can't wait for more updates to the game.
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Aug 14, 2022 21:22
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One thing I noticed while playing with the decorations, if your city area is low on trees you can plant brand new trees for 1 gold for a new source of trees. So in theory you can have a work camp working one section while you plant a brand new forest somewhere else. On my second city they really helped me out with the trading by putting a bunch of gold deposits near my starting zone. Its all sand and gold through half the map. There is no clay though but with all the ore it made trading for clay pretty easy. 
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Aug 15, 2022 03:52
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You can harvest fruit trees planted by your arborist, costs nothing but 20 work units to plant them. Yields are terrible though.
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Aug 15, 2022 04:28
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You can sell wood for 4 gold per unit so it uhh, that seems kind of exploitive.
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Aug 15, 2022 06:57
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totalnewbie posted:You can sell wood for 4 gold per unit so it uhh, that seems kind of exploitive. I’d agree if it didn’t seem that the game in its current state starts to get unsustainable not that deep into it. I’m playing on the easiest difficulty and it’s honestly not that easy.
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Aug 15, 2022 07:27
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It's definitely challenging. So far on my no-clay no-herbs no-reeds map, I've been sustaining myself via trade, albeit kind of barely. Definitely always on the edge though.
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Aug 15, 2022 07:45
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A long while back, on a whim I decided to play a sandbox game of Stronghold Crusader on a test map, not an actual map for play, that was a barren desert with completely gently caress-all except for a patch of quarry stone in the middle. From this, I managed to somehow create a semi-stable outpost of a town, mining out stone for export, and importing food and wood for construction. Eventually it would reach a level of development where I could not expand anymore, but I found it a cool mental exercise to see just how far you can stretch extremely limited resources using trade. I really dig Farthest Frontier's philosophy about that, the importance and power of trade. I'm really, really surprised at how visceral the reaction of some people were about raw resources being extractable but not processable until a later tier, necessitating importing tools and whatever while exporting said resources out in the meantime. That's...extremely similar to IRL village/town/city development. Sure, the fact that traders are RNG right now is an issue but that's deffo a consequence of the EA release, but these people are adamant that the fundamental design of "build village, export goods, import goods, develop using trade" is stupid or whatever and that's really shocking to me. What, are city builders supposed to be autarky-capable from the get-go?
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Aug 15, 2022 08:06
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toasterwarrior posted:I'm really, really surprised at how visceral the reaction of some people were about raw resources being extractable but not processable until a later tier, necessitating importing tools and whatever while exporting said resources out in the meantime. That's...extremely similar to IRL village/town/city development. Sure, the fact that traders are RNG right now is an issue but that's deffo a consequence of the EA release, but these people are adamant that the fundamental design of "build village, export goods, import goods, develop using trade" is stupid or whatever and that's really shocking to me. What, are city builders supposed to be autarky-capable from the get-go? I went into the game knowing those complains (and the justifications ITT) and I enjoy FF and it's trade-reliance. But I can see how the tiers could feel detrimental to an unprepared player.
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Aug 15, 2022 09:22
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queeb posted:i think transport fever 2 is like, pretty chill on the supply chain stuff. most things are like, 3 steps. i like it. It can be more complex at hard difficulty because you have to weave the chains together so that you never have empty trains/boats moving
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Aug 15, 2022 12:09
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Oh my god, there's a halo looking icon top left of buildings like work camp that lets you retarget the work area. Game changer. Alright, one thing the game needs to add is a minimum global stock for the trade building slider. As it stands right now, you can keep a minimum stock in the trading post which is cool. But say you set your trading post to have 50 coats. A trader shows up and you sell your coats. Great, perfect. But now your trading post immediately depletes your global storage to get that back up to the minimum inventory so you're no longer able to use the item until you've produced another up-to-50 coats. In a similar vein, the trading post will continually try to stock the same single good (e.g. coal) when your global storage is less than the minimum quantity in the trading post, which means it now won't stock anything else until after you've finished stocking coal 2-3 at a time, which kind of sucks. Just QOL changes that don't affect the core game design but as trade seems like it should be incredibly important, the trading post mechanics have to be touched up. totalnewbie fucked around with this message at 19:03 on Aug 15, 2022 |
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Aug 15, 2022 18:44
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totalnewbie posted:Oh my god, there's a halo looking icon top left of buildings like work camp that lets you retarget the work area. Game changer. Just in case people don't realize it as well, the "move building" icon next to the "close window" icon requires you to use labor to move a building but no material, so it's "free" to shift stuff around.
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