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skooma512 posted:I keep running out of wood in Timberborn on Prairie. I hit a bottleneck where I use up all the trees near me, the forested ones seem to cost wood to make, and then I succumb to a drought. The original stands don't seem to grow back. Yeah, there's a soft failure state if you don't make a Forester before you run out of wood. Don't forget that you can get part of the construction cost back from demolition, so you can always cannibalize things if you absolutely must. Also, trees do not reproduce on their own, you must plant them to make more.
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Jun 1, 2023 23:54
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i'm pretty sure leaving stumps lets trees grow again eventually, but iirc not every chopped tree will leave one
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Jun 2, 2023 00:00
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Yeah I was expecting the original trees to come back at some point. It doesn't help the starting location also has to accomodate my buildings and farms and I can't even go up a Z level without planks and a tech upgrade. It's ok though, beaver game good so far.
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Jun 2, 2023 00:09
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RandomBlue posted:I wish the beaver game was less washed out brown and green, the aesthetics really bother me and I don't want to spend hours staring at that. turn up the saturation on your video card
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Jun 2, 2023 00:20
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Volmarias posted:Also, trees do not reproduce on their own, you must plant them to make more. Live, full grown trees reproduce on their own, but only if they aren't on a planted tile. It is also pretty slow. You can game this by making a checkerboard or similar pattern of chopping down only some of the trees but leaving full grown ones to repopulate.
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Jun 2, 2023 01:55
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Truga posted:i'm pretty sure leaving stumps lets trees grow again eventually, but iirc not every chopped tree will leave one Clumps of trees will be a mix of fully and partly grown. There are trees that will grow into adulthood over time, but they don't produce any new saplings. Unless this is a new behavior that I haven't at all seen.
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Jun 2, 2023 01:56
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Nope, trees regrowing by themself has been in the game for a long time, well over a year.
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Jun 2, 2023 02:04
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Huh, I have never actually seen that!
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Jun 2, 2023 04:23
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euphronius posted:the amount of logs you used for the levees there may have been better spent on an adjustable dam upstream. Logs are renewable tho so whatever. Oh, I absolutely could have, but I've just had a bad time with gradually adjusting my flood gates during a drought to keep the water flowing. There was always some mild-flooding that I couldn't explain, and it was annoying to deal with. Also, I'm iron teeth, so I get engines anyway, and I've kinda liked the "batten-down-the-hatches to ride it out"-approach with iron teeth. Also-also: dumb projects is kinda what I live for in this game once I'm past the survival stage, and engines give me the opportunity to build the most-dumberest contraption to pump water from my down-stream resevoir back uphill to create a perpetual river during a drought instead of doing something more intelligent. OwlFancier posted:You might find you get surprisingly persistent eddies in the water, but they usually do settle down after a while. Just went through the second full drought without them settling, there's just a perpetual phantom-current that yields an undying 114-120hp, so I'm guessing bug at this point
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Jun 2, 2023 05:14
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basically, as soon as you start doing poo poo with waterflow you'll get waves going from one end to the other, and sometimes never settling because ~gamephysics~ yeahUnreal_One posted:Live, full grown trees reproduce on their own, but only if they aren't on a planted tile. It is also pretty slow. You can game this by making a checkerboard or similar pattern of chopping down only some of the trees but leaving full grown ones to repopulate. wish there was a checkerboard pattern for the chopping tool lol
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Jun 2, 2023 09:53
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I have been continuing to try CoI because I can’t return it, and I am of the opinion that how it presents information and attempts to explain its mechanics and situations is proof of the old adage about certain levels of incompetence being indistinguishable from malice Like, good designers would point out when you acquire a second set of crops that you need to build an entirely new food market to accept them, rather than just assume that after you’ve gone through a few colony collapses you’ll do a web search to get an answer to why your trucks fill up with vegetables and just stop, grinding your entire economy to a halt as everyone starves
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Jun 2, 2023 18:06
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Volmarias posted:Also, trees do not reproduce on their own, you must plant them to make more. Incorrect, living adult trees will spread to nearby open terrain, as do all plants. Duzzy Funlop posted:Just went through the second full drought without them settling, there's just a perpetual phantom-current that yields an undying 114-120hp, so I'm guessing bug at this point It is possible you have engineered a setup that creates a persistent current although I would say that that is a very small amount of power so it's not super important. skeleton warrior posted:I have been continuing to try CoI because I can’t return it, and I am of the opinion that how it presents information and attempts to explain its mechanics and situations is proof of the old adage about certain levels of incompetence being indistinguishable from malice They shouldn't fill up on vegetables unless they have somewhere to deliver them? It appears to function on a work order type system where the game generates jobs to transport items from one place to another, so if there is no place ordering vegetables the trucks will just leave them in the farm. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 18:20 on Jun 2, 2023 |
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Jun 2, 2023 18:17
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skeleton warrior posted:I have been continuing to try CoI because I can’t return it, and I am of the opinion that how it presents information and attempts to explain its mechanics and situations is proof of the old adage about certain levels of incompetence being indistinguishable from malice Totally agree. Especially after playing Against the Storm, CoI feels like an itch.io game.
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Jun 2, 2023 19:35
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I would say I keep bouncing off of CoI for those reasons but it’s more like… violently bouncing back and forth. You’re all absolutely correct it has a lot of crap that’s not well explained or laid out but the game just keeps me coming back because I love so many dumb aspects of it. Then I play until I’m frustrated, alt f4… wait an hour and suddenly I want to play again. It’s a very weird relationship! On the bright side it seems like the devs are at least trying - this first big update is great, even if it definitely needs a lot more love.
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Jun 2, 2023 20:05
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Join the discord and talk to the devs! The Captains would actively love to hear such feedback. Obviously be polite, but they're very open to feedback.Anime Store Adventure posted:I would say I keep bouncing off of CoI for those reasons but it’s more like… violently bouncing back and forth. You’re all absolutely correct it has a lot of crap that’s not well explained or laid out but the game just keeps me coming back because I love so many dumb aspects of it. Then I play until I’m frustrated, alt f4… wait an hour and suddenly I want to play again. It’s a very weird relationship! New update shows they listen. Before the update getting into Maintenance 2/3 and microchip/server production for robotic automation was such a mess. You kind of had to rush things back and forth. Now there's a very clear progression that makes things smoother and removes a lot of the headache. Also the nuclear reprocessing is great.
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Jun 2, 2023 20:28
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CoI changed a LOT of numbers regarding machines. I did not realize this until I built them. For instance, a 3-stage distilling line now requires only 12 steam (It used to be 18, or maybe 15). So you can run four of them off one boiler, but you don’t have that extra slop to tack on a cracker or whatever. And the numbers for processing sour water are significantly different. So much for memorized ratios. Also I’m cranking through T3 research and still moving dirt. It remains the number one job, even above coal.
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Jun 2, 2023 23:27
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Well, I'm in a food spiral that I'm working on breaking out of via irrigation towers, but I'm alive somehow still. Built a great reservoir, all ready to go, closed the floodgate to let it fill... and it wasn't enough outflow so it can only be raised to 1.5 depth. Shame. But I can replace more levees with dams once that's not going to flood onto my tree farm at some point. The game is weirdly loose with direction in the middle phase. A little aimless still and not the best feedback for if I'm doing things right/wrong.
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Jun 2, 2023 23:30
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Was putting off Captain of Industry until I saw a sale. Goodbye weekend.
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Jun 3, 2023 06:12
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SkyeAuroline posted:Well, I'm in a food spiral that I'm working on breaking out of via irrigation towers, but I'm alive somehow still. In further personal dumb-project-news of mine, I'll see your reservoir and raise you a 2.5-block-deep resevoir I created by barraging-off the entire natural run-off edge of the map. I feel like one or two labor laws may have been violated in the process, because I didn't build this with a satellite district  Bonus dump-project-spotlight in the back of the picture, where I've chosen the dumbest possible location for my giant gravity-battery array. Could have just built it right across from the river where the power is literally generated a few tiles away, and I could have pulled elevated the batteries to the same height with a bunch of platforms, but why do that when you can build a completely unnecessary power-shaft highway ALL THE WAY ACROSS my settlement?   We don't do easy or smart 'round these parts.  Bonus-teaser for my next evolution of dumb-projects:  /edit: Man, I love these hydroponic garden towers you can build. Algae and mushrooms take pretty long, too, so you don't have a lot of foot traffic putting a strain on your haulers. The rooftop-terrace on top, however, is a bit of a climb to still count as "relaxation"  
Duzzy Funlop fucked around with this message at 06:43 on Jun 3, 2023 |
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Jun 3, 2023 06:20
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I don't remember when I last built an irrigation tower in Timberborn. I prefer just excavating a hole, or building an enclosure from levies, and then using a water dump to fill it. I'm not actually sure if there's any difference in water usage, but the footprint is different at least.
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Jun 3, 2023 08:56
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I swear my beavers are either trying to unionize against me or secretly planning my violent murder over me basically trying out creative mode building with them
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Jun 3, 2023 10:00
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I'm really enjoying CoI but man oh man does it melt my brain. I'm an experienced Factorio player but for some reason, I found the cost of entry for Factorio way easier than CoI. Factorio had smooth and logical progression but CoI seems to throw a tonne of stuff at you at once and then I spend a bunch of time fiddling around to get the proper ratios for inputs and then my brain starts playing elevator music and I save / quit. I think I might just do what always works: have distinct production zones for all the major inputs, and then if I see something downstream is slowing down, just increase the input production without blasting my brain with all the confusing ratio crap. It doesn't help that the research tree progression isn't paced at all. I researched a bunch of stuff as it was queued and I've now hit the Lab Level 2 wall for further research, and I've yet to even start dipping my toe into the myriad tools I unlocked thus far. Qubee fucked around with this message at 10:26 on Jun 3, 2023 |
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Jun 3, 2023 10:16
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I restarted CoI on standard difficulty and I think it's holding interest better. Just building out a location for my oil dock next to a big refinery setup so I can dismantle the old ones.
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Jun 3, 2023 10:33
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Hmm, what to research next? Nuclear power or sausages?
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Jun 3, 2023 11:44
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Moving onto the Fast Breeder Reactor: the ultimate nuclear reactor and holy poo poo this thing is awesome. So much of my basic setup is literally obsolete, or will be once I get this thing up and running. I can enrich yellowcake directly into Blanket Fuel to be enriched inside the reactor. None of the waste products are permanently toxic and everything can be recycled eventually. Oh and the thing vomits out superheated steam which basically has double the energy value. Oh and the fuel is a fluid (it's a molten salt reactor after all!) so pipes everywhere!
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Jun 3, 2023 11:44
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Man CoI is just a nightmare of drawing loving lines between buildings. Factorio isn't even this bad because its pipe directions are arbitrary, but CoI seems to delight in just making you do utterly needless amounts of loving plumbing. It feels like a game that's ten years out of date, as if it's the sheer novelty of simulating that is interesting in and of itself. And it's using worse tools than factorio has because you can't clearly see what's supposed to run in any given pipe.
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Jun 3, 2023 12:41
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Qubee posted:It doesn't help that the research tree progression isn't paced at all. I researched a bunch of stuff as it was queued and I've now hit the Lab Level 2 wall for further research, and I've yet to even start dipping my toe into the myriad tools I unlocked thus far. And yes, I agree the game needs a better visual way to “label” pipes. But they’ve just improved that with storage units and conveyors so maybe it’ll come soon. Or not.
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Jun 3, 2023 15:55
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Make sure your dam doesn’t have spaces escaping off the map
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Jun 3, 2023 16:17
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OwlFancier posted:Man CoI is just a nightmare of drawing loving lines between buildings. Honestly even factorio was a nightmare for this. Getting a refinery set up at scale is a nightmare of running pipes all over the place, both to get the refineries and tanks set up without completely blocking off access and also to bring liquids to factories. COI's problem is that you have such small amounts of space that you have to take every single inch to do piping rather than being able to stretch it out in gapped lines like in Factorio.
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Jun 3, 2023 17:07
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Pipes are just bad in general, I feel. They're what keep me from revisiting Factorio. The fact that you can't walk through them there just makes them feel incredibly bad to work with. They're vaguely interesting in Satisfactory, where pressure and elevation are vaguely interesting challenges, but still more frustrating than they need to be. Dyson Sphere Program is the clear winner here for letting you just put blocks of fluid on conveyor belts. Though I don't remember them being all that obnoxious in Factory Town, the actual best factory game.
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Jun 3, 2023 17:21
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SettingSun posted:how is a dump truck selectively dumping certain goods??? My assumption is that the truck isn't a single truck, but is representative of a fleet performing logistics for the site.
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Jun 3, 2023 18:26
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skeleton warrior posted:I have been continuing to try CoI because I can’t return it, and I am of the opinion that how it presents information and attempts to explain its mechanics and situations is proof of the old adage about certain levels of incompetence being indistinguishable from malice I bought it first day of general EA release, and immediately ran into this problem. Their Discord forum is full of the worst type of old game player - the immediate response to any suggestion that the tutorial/instructions may be inadequate or non-intuitive was the immediate smug assurance that I just wasn't used to playing Big Brain Games and should go back to Candyland, if I needed my hand held so much. Then the actual developers stepped in to defend them. SlyFrog fucked around with this message at 18:30 on Jun 3, 2023 |
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Jun 3, 2023 18:28
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I won't join a game community's discord if I can avoid it (I'll sooner ask a question here). Every game in existence could use more intuitive mechanics and tutorials and CoI is no exception. I don't share the frustration with CoI's unintuitiveness though, but perhaps I'm of the same type of mind as its developers. I also know I play these types of games at a different pace and priority than a lot of people, especially around here.
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Jun 3, 2023 18:34
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For me, it was just a sad illustration of that old grognard game developer attitude of "gently caress you, the player is wrong and clarity in design and interface is silly." As I believe someone else said earlier, Against the Storm is such a breath of fresh air in this regard, where the developers actually seem very keen on creating a really good interface and understandable mechanics. I think CoI is wonderful, but they did not shine their brightest in the early days in particular, as it was days of them defending the relative lack of tutorial, for example, rather than owning it and making it better (which they eventually did).
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Jun 3, 2023 18:51
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So far the only painful thing in CoI to figure out was mining. Those official YouTube guides are super helpful though
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Jun 3, 2023 18:55
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Honestly, I can't imagine any interface more opaque to me than Factorio, the control scheme is roguelike in the 'once you know it, it's not so big a problem'. But if I've taken a long break, it hits me like a roguelike vikeys control scheme. I think it's mostly just me, but the only things I can instantly recall is the true fundamentals like movement and I've got to look it up each time.
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Jun 3, 2023 20:44
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Disclaimer, I'd like to apologize to the person that previously told me that the amount of logs I used could have been spent to create an adjustable dam upstream. I'd also like to apologize to my past-self for making it look like an idiot for responding to that post with "well, yeah, but I'm Iron Teeth, I get engines. Behold the fruit of my most recent dumb project. Boy, were my beavers happy when it was finally done and they didn't have to toil away pointlessly at a dumb idea.  Boy were they unhappy when I decided it wasn't dumb enough just yet. 
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Jun 4, 2023 12:24
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Duzzy Funlop posted:Disclaimer, I'd like to apologize to the person that previously told me that the amount of logs I used could have been spent to create an adjustable dam upstream. I don't play the beaver game but that is some sweet infrastructure. 
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Jun 4, 2023 12:31
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Is... is that a water pump powering an array of waterwheels to power the pump? Regarding the COI-chat: Wasn't there a map generator or editor announced? The current maps all seem to be gimmick maps. Understandable from a dev point of view, but ... I'm having a hard time actually pushing myself to start a new game with update 1. Wipfmetz fucked around with this message at 13:23 on Jun 4, 2023 |
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Jun 4, 2023 13:17
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That may actually be possible because pumps have a set (but quite high) power cost so if you put enough wheels behind it you could make perpetual motion (until the water evaporates) Beaver science exceeds dwarf science in some ways.
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Jun 4, 2023 13:19
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