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Fritz the Horse
Dec 26, 2019

... of course!

Hello and welcome to Religionthread 2021!

You are welcome and valued no matter your creed or where you're at in your life/faith journey. This is above all a tolerant space in that we encourage posters of any and all faiths (or none!) to

This is a thread for talking about religion. Historically this was a Liturgical Christianity thread but in the last couple iterations we decided to just brand it as "religion" broadly because we have a bunch of cool folks who aren't Christian.
This thread will still be mostly Christian but that's not because we exclude others, that simply happens to be a majority of regulars here.

We are people that care deeply about our faith traditions. We agree to disagree and enjoy learning from each other.

Posting of silly hats and thicc houses of worship is encouraged!



Some basic thread rules:
1) Don't be a jerk. Respect the fact that everyone here has different faith traditions and opinions than you do. This is not a place for evangelizing.

2) No abortion chat Historically this has been taboo for the thread but we opened it up a couple months ago and it went surprisingly well.
Just... be considered and empathetic in your posting on abortion and other hot-button issues. I think we are probably okay to discuss abortion/right-to-life/choice issues so long as it adheres to rule 1) Don't be a jerk.




Some examples of things we post about :
-Prayer requests
-Silly hats and other cool images of religious stuff
-Serious and well-intentioned theological/philosophical discussion
-Current events related to religion
-Prosperity gospel is very bad and probably evil

Some examples of things you ought to avoid:
-Calling other faith traditions wrong/heretical/schismatic
-Personal attacks
-Being overly political







mod edit: The old thread is here

CrypticFox posted:

. This is a permanent invite link to the discord: https://discord.gg/8GFHu4Tczz

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By popular demand
Jul 17, 2007

IT *BZZT* WASP ME--
IT WASP ME ALL *BZZT* ALONG!




Some thoughts on Judaism:
Post WW2 and the founding of Israel Judaism is considered by many, possibly most Jews to be a matter of heritage at least as much as a faith system.
This outlook is well supported by tradition as a 'converted Jew' historically was the common way to refer to a person rather than acknowledging their new spiritual outlook and a new convert to Judaism is referred to as an ex-gentile.
some traditions call for honoring ex-gentiles as they came over by choice but there are of course dickheads who refuse to acknowledge a new convert and their offspring as proper Jews.

A bit from wikipedia

quote:

Indeed, the great-niece of the renowned Zionist Nahum Sokolow was recently deemed "not Jewish enough" to marry in Israel, after she failed to prove the purity of Jewish blood for four generations.

I have a love-hate relationship with my heritage, I despise this sort of regressive xenophobia especially in a faith which otherwise encourages debate and open-mindedness.
In a very real way modern Jewish thought just went to sleep and left the worst conservative shitheads to guard the gate.

that's enough for this post, please add your thoughts as jews or gentiles or whatever.

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009



I don't post in these threads too often, but I do read them so checking in with the new thread to affirm that I am an American Evangelical who is extremely left-wing and left the Southern Baptist Convention due to the SBC's secular politics. If folks have questions about that arm of Christianity, I can probably answer them or at least make an educated guess.

https://i.imgur.com/gDjhEYQ.mp4

Tias
May 25, 2008

Deyr fe,
deyja fraendr,
deyr sjalfr it sama,
ek veit einn,
at aldrei deyr:
domr um daudan hvern.


Tag!

I'm Tias, a reconstructionist norse heathen / animist, which I guess is a bit less strange than your regular vikingaboo since I actually live in Scandinavia. My thread is linked in the prior sentence, but I'll be happy to answer neo-heathenry/paganism stuff itt as well.

By popular demand
Jul 17, 2007

IT *BZZT* WASP ME--
IT WASP ME ALL *BZZT* ALONG!




A quick thumbing through the wiki article makes the SBC sound like all the 'Bad Christians' characters I see on the media but this gave me pause:


Wikipedia posted:

The word Southern in Southern Baptist Convention stems from it having been organized in 1845 at Augusta, Georgia, by Baptists in the Southern United States who split with northern Baptists over the issue of slavery, with Southern Baptists strongly opposed to its abolition.

Why the gently caress would they keep this name for the church? Just one step removed from "The Slavery YAY Baptist Tabernacle" .

E: hey Tias, I'm def gonna read your thread reconstruction religious traditions are a thing I know nothing about.

By popular demand fucked around with this message at 13:52 on Jan 13, 2021

Tias
May 25, 2008

Deyr fe,
deyja fraendr,
deyr sjalfr it sama,
ek veit einn,
at aldrei deyr:
domr um daudan hvern.


By popular demand posted:

A quick thumbing through the wiki article makes the SBC sound like all the 'Bad Christians' characters I see on the media but this gave me pause:


Why the gently caress would they keep this name for the church? Just one step removed from "The Slavery YAY Baptist Tabernacle" .

E: hey Tias, I'm def gonna read your thread reconstruction religious traditions are a thing I know nothing about.

Cool beans! It's only 8 odd pages at present, and if you have any questions just let me know.

zonohedron
Aug 14, 2006




My first post in the last thread was from the last page of the thread before, and it feels like I'm carrying on some kind of tradition to post it again:


The Belgian had posted it, and it had made me sad because my own parish church (which I have not seen since June) was built in the 1980s and really, really looks it. Now I'm sad because I can't go to church - I mean, the archbishop has allowed churches to open, the governor has prohibited cities from putting any restrictions at all on churches, so I could go, but it'd be an unwise choice.

Nth Doctor
Sep 7, 2010

Darkrai used Dream Eater!
It's super effective!




Hey faithGoons!
Since we're doing reintroductions: I'm a protestant congregationalist pastor's kid who had a brush with conservative evangelicalism in middle school and now identifies as a primarily-but-not-exclusively-christocentric universalist.

My Dad was a second career preacher, so I experienced growing up in a church as a regular congregant and then high school and college I was The Pastor's Son which let me see the role both from the inside and the outside.

I mostly lurk but do follow the conversations and try to grok how we all approach and experience the divine in our lives. To lean on one of my favorite metaphors, I like to see the many lamps we have from which shines one light.

Tias
May 25, 2008

Deyr fe,
deyja fraendr,
deyr sjalfr it sama,
ek veit einn,
at aldrei deyr:
domr um daudan hvern.


That's a good church. Have my local protestant church, Hyltebjerg Kirke, which is quite a paunchy chorchh:



Nth Doctor posted:

Hey faithGoons!
Since we're doing reintroductions: I'm a protestant congregationalist pastor's kid who had a brush with conservative evangelicalism in middle school and now identifies as a primarily-but-not-exclusively-christocentric universalist.

My Dad was a second career preacher, so I experienced growing up in a church as a regular congregant and then high school and college I was The Pastor's Son which let me see the role both from the inside and the outside.

I mostly lurk but do follow the conversations and try to grok how we all approach and experience the divine in our lives. To lean on one of my favorite metaphors, I like to see the many lamps we have from which shines one light.

That's cool. What do you recognize of deities besides Christ/G_d?

Tias fucked around with this message at 14:16 on Jan 13, 2021

Tias
May 25, 2008

Deyr fe,
deyja fraendr,
deyr sjalfr it sama,
ek veit einn,
at aldrei deyr:
domr um daudan hvern.


E: double postin'

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009



By popular demand posted:

A quick thumbing through the wiki article makes the SBC sound like all the 'Bad Christians' characters I see on the media but this gave me pause:


Why the gently caress would they keep this name for the church? Just one step removed from "The Slavery YAY Baptist Tabernacle" .

Possibly bitterly cynical of me, but my gut impulse is "Because then as now they use religion to reinforce and support the secular beliefs they already had, rather than giving primacy to what the Bible actually says."

Worthleast
Nov 25, 2012

Possibly the only speedboat jumps I've planned



Ad multos annos!

I'm our resident SSPX traditional Catholic / Latin Mass fancier.

Crazy Joe Wilson
Jul 4, 2007

Justifiably Mad!


Names are a hard (in people's mind) thing to change. Lot of historical inertia there. At this point it's largely because of tradition and where the Southern Baptists are located (in the South). I would chalk it up to a similar thing with groups like the NAACP. When I actually explain to my students what the name stands for, a lot of them (who are African-American) make faces because 'colored people' is no longer considered the proper name for African-Americans/Black Americans, but changing the name would be changing a lot of history, so the group keeps the name it has.

That would be my guess though.

I am an occasional drive by Roman Catholic poster. I guess the best term would be 'orthodox', as I don't go to any Latin Masses and the like, although I do try to partake in many of the Church's traditions that have fallen by the wayside (Like fasting from meat on Friday). My Pastors are recently starting to do more Latin Masses at our Church though so maybe I'll try to attend some.

Crazy Joe Wilson fucked around with this message at 14:47 on Jan 13, 2021

Kangxi
Nov 12, 2016

The hat is mandatory.


Hello! I just lurk but I've always appreciated these threads as a venue for serious discussion and nice pictures. I've learned some things here.

Slimy Hog
Apr 22, 2008





Re-Introductions, fun!

I'm a convert to Eastern Orthodoxy via non-denominational Protestant something or other.
Be prepared for me to make a bad joke about dates in April/May because Easter and Pascha are almost a whole month apart this year.

Zazz Razzamatazz
Apr 19, 2016

No hunks allowed, ya dangus

Hi, I've mostly lurked on these past two threads.

I'm a pretty conservative / traditionalist type of person. And these dead comedy forums have felt less and less friendly these past few years.

I tend to avoid political threads and mostly stick to posting in threads about tv shows or terrible space games.

I grew up in a Pentecostal denomination, very "fire and brimstone and young Earth creationism and end-times conspiracy" type of thing.

Then I fell into unbelief for a decade or so.

Then I was a Mormon for a couple of years (long story).

Now I am converting to Catholism, I'm in the middle of RCIA at my parish. (I'd like to visit a latin mass at some point, but I'm happy in my tradionalist NO parish)


If this thread devolves into cute cat gifs, I'd be ok with that.

Crazy Joe Wilson
Jul 4, 2007

Justifiably Mad!


Zazz Razzamatazz posted:


Now I am converting to Catholicism, I'm in the middle of RCIA at my parish. (I'd like to visit a Latin mass at some point, but I'm happy in my tradionalist NO parish)


Glad to have you brother. I hope your parish has a good Knights of Columbus chapter to get involved in. They've helped me strengthen my faith quite a bit.

By popular demand
Jul 17, 2007

IT *BZZT* WASP ME--
IT WASP ME ALL *BZZT* ALONG!




Zazz Razzamatazz posted:

If this thread devolves into cute cat gifs, I'd be ok with that.

the animist worship of moving feline pictures is the fastest growing religion ever!
for fun I made up the name of an Arameic cult for that and I'm gonna leave it around wherever I go.
צַלְמָת שִׁינָרָא נָיְידָא (tzalmat shinra nay'da)

HopperUK
Apr 29, 2007

Clear off, fatso, this is a respectable establishment




Hello all,

I am a cradle Catholic who used to have a very simple certain faith. Then I was an atheist for ten years or so and now I once again consider myself Catholic. My politics are way to the left and I am definitely out of alignment with the church on a number of issues but, in terms of the actual religion, that's the one for me.

I recently found my rosary that I thought I'd lost so excellent result there.

BattyKiara
Mar 17, 2009


Resident Friend (Quaker) checking in. If you like peace, equality, and silence, we have a place for you. Everyone welcome!

Politically I am far to the left. Equality and non-violence strikes again!

I'm also the loneliest goonette around, so if anyone feel like a chat, let me know. I need more friends! (Pun intended)

Deteriorata
Feb 6, 2005

The general increasing love of athletics is benefiting our young men, and making their lives better and more worth the living.

I'm a Methodist and consequently too boring to have an edgy opinion on much of anything.

quote:

The distinguishing marks of a Methodist are not his opinions of any sort. His assenting to this or that scheme of Religion, his embracing any particular set of notions, his espousing the judgment of one man or of another, are all quite wide of the point. Whosoever therefore imagines, that a Methodist is a man of such or such an opinion, is grossly ignorant of the whole affair; he mistakes the truth totally. We believe indeed, that all Scripture is given by the inspiration of God, and herein we are distinguished from Jews, Turks, and Infidels. We believe the written word of God to be the only and sufficient rule, both of Christian faith and practice; and herein we are fundamentally distinguished from those of the Romish church. We believe Christ to be the eternal, supreme God; and herein we are distinguished from the Socinians and Arians. But as to all opinions which do not strike at the root of Christianity, we think and let think. So that whatsoever they are, whether right or wrong, they are no distinguishing marks of a; Methodist.
- John Wesley, The Character of a Methodist, 1739

Fritz the Horse
Dec 26, 2019

... of course!

Hello I'm Fritz, a horse.



Lutheran/Episcopalian, feel pretty at home in most mainstream Protestant churches.

By popular demand
Jul 17, 2007

IT *BZZT* WASP ME--
IT WASP ME ALL *BZZT* ALONG!




The splittings and persecutions between religious sects who believe basically the same things are endlessly confounding to me.
That horse though is cool and that is plain to see.

Nth Doctor
Sep 7, 2010

Darkrai used Dream Eater!
It's super effective!




Tias posted:

That's cool. What do you recognize of deities besides Christ/G_d?

What a great question. So in my Congregationalist background, I found it helpful to to describe it using a contrast with more regimented and hierarchical denominations. Rather than a specific creed or listing of beliefs, Congregationalists instead mutually affirm one another's beliefs. I may percieve and discern the nature of God one way, while the person in the pew in front of me may have a completely different realization of the divine. Rather than debate over who may be right, we can accept that no matter our viewpoint, God isn't wrong and can support one another as we continue to learn and practice our beliefs.

I like to take that now a step further: I have no place standing between somone and their concept of divinity, of holiness, of guidance from Gods. There is no compulsory Church of Nth Doctor and I've also come to the conclusion that I myself am not a diety so I can't self appoint myself inquisitor. :-)

So with that being the case, then as respectfully as possible: I recognize dieties worshipped by others as the way that they best experience holiness, and try not to project my own view of God into their experiences, into their worship, and into their faith. I once likened the myriad ways we all experience our faith and interact with our dieties as different wrapping paper on the same gift. Later on, Hey Guns I believe it was said independently that it is the ritual that they find most important and I realized that the wrapping paper metaphor can trivialize that and diminish their beliefs.

I'm still looking for a better metaphor but put plainly: while I conceptualize a trinitarian God in the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit of mainline protestant Christianity, I do not and can not bar anyone else from having a different concept or set of concepts. I feel like I'm writing this really clunkily, and sincerely hope I'm not being disrespectful.

By popular demand posted:

The splittings and persecutions between religious sects who believe basically the same things are endlessly confounding to me.
That horse though is cool and that is plain to see.

The Narcissism of Small Differences is a good starting point.
Or for the sound and light experience https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3fAcxcxoZ8

Valiantman
Jun 25, 2011

Ways to circumvent the Compact #6: Find a dreaming god and affect his dreams so that they become reality. Hey, it's not like it's you who's affecting the world. Blame the other guy for irresponsibly falling asleep.

Hi there from Finland. I'm a Lutheran like most of the Finns and used to work for the church as a parish youth work director until very recently. I've done that my entire adult life and then some but recently our parish couldn't afford me anymore so I had to find other work.

HopperUK
Apr 29, 2007

Clear off, fatso, this is a respectable establishment




Nth Doctor posted:

I like to take that now a step further: I have no place standing between somone and their concept of divinity, of holiness, of guidance from Gods...I recognize dieties worshipped by others as the way that they best experience holiness, and try not to project my own view of God into their experiences, into their worship, and into their faith.

This is my attitude to other people's faiths also.

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.


Nth Doctor posted:

I like to take that now a step further: I have no place standing between somone and their concept of divinity, of holiness, of guidance from Gods. There is no compulsory Church of Nth Doctor and I've also come to the conclusion that I myself am not a diety so I can't self appoint myself inquisitor. :-)

I agree with this, as well. I'm a non-denominational midwestern Christian who has been multiple different religions growing up (Jewish, Quaker, Catholic, Agnostic) before coming back to faith in college and staying there. I suppose I'm a Protestant in that I'd be Catholic if not for some doctrinal differences I feel I cannot take confirmation in good conscience with.

By popular demand
Jul 17, 2007

IT *BZZT* WASP ME--
IT WASP ME ALL *BZZT* ALONG!




Be true to yourself and your own spiritual truth friend.
That many religious conversions must have been a hell of a trip, did you ever write down a lengthy thread about that?

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.


By popular demand posted:

Be true to yourself and your own spiritual truth friend.
That many religious conversions must have been a hell of a trip, did you ever write down a lengthy thread about that?

They were when I was a kid, so I was just following my family at the time. I drifted into agnostic in high school because I was like 'eh, this seems like nonsense if you can change that often' and then later back out of it because one of my professors in college actually addressed some of my main objections to the factual truth of the Gospels. Specifically that they're not meant as historic accounts as it is and that ideas about literalism are new, that they're theological documents trying to express the religious truth of Christ and preach to others.

Slimy Hog
Apr 22, 2008





Night10194 posted:

I suppose I'm a Protestant in that I'd be Catholic if not for some doctrinal differences I feel I cannot take confirmation in good conscience with.

Depending on what the doctrinal differences are, Eastern Orthodoxy is something you may want to check out. (What I'm really saying is JOIIINNNNN UUSSSS)

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.


Slimy Hog posted:

Depending on what the doctrinal differences are, Eastern Orthodoxy is something you may want to check out. (What I'm really saying is JOIIINNNNN UUSSSS)

I believe that the church cannot satisfactorily justify not ordaining women as priests and that priests should not need to be celibate (I know Orthodox allow married priests), primarily.

Captain von Trapp
Jan 22, 2006

I don't like it, and I'm sorry I ever had anything to do with it.

I'm a Christian, but not quite sure what denominational label to slap on myself at the moment. Due to a recent cross-country move and subsequent pandemic, I'm not actually a member of a church at the moment. I would like to change this, but it'll have to wait a few months. Generally you would not go far wrong if you pigeonholed me somewhere in the traditional Baptist/nondenominational Protestant camp. Over the last few years I have grown alarmingly Orthodox-curious, but given my geography this is not something I've really been able to explore seriously.

I always read the thread, but I only post from time to time. Because I'm right-wing politically and a firebreathing lower-case-o orthodox Christian (or whatever the tweedy academic/INTP version of "firebreathing" is), it's hard for me to say anything of substance about religion or politics without being very much contrary to the SA zeitgeist. Still, this is a good thread. It's full of good people, and I hope it stays an island of affable calm on these forums.

But if you really want to know what the other side thinks, I'm around.

White Coke
May 29, 2015


I'm an Episcopalian who went through a non-believing phase in my early 20s but have come back around, although I also sometimes attend a Lutheran church because of some issues my dad had with the former dean of our Episcopal church.

Thirteen Orphans
Dec 2, 2012

The principles expressed in the martial arts make up the backbone of my philosophy.

Iím a Roman Catholic who converted to the Church in college. I was very involved in campus ministry and was a Theology and Religious Studies major. Because of this I was primarily taught how to pray by conservatives and primarily taught how to reason by liberals.

This conflict never went away.

Hiro Protagonist
Oct 25, 2010

Last of the freelance hackers and
Greatest swordfighter in the world


I've been struggling with something religious, and I think I finally understand where it's coming from. I actually have a Master's in Religious Studies, with a focus on early Christianity and Zen Buddhism. I feel like, in all my Christian studies classes, the professors' had hugely different views on Christianity, Christ, and even the existence of God than most mainstream Christians and I feel like I started to feel that, if Christianity can't handle the scrutiny of experts, most of whom came with a firm desire to legitimate they're existing Christian beliefs, then it was kind of silly to assume Christianity was an expression of anything true. What made it hard was I came from such a drastically different viewpoint and experience level with certain subjects that I also felt I couldn't confide in anyone about it, because they wouldn't understand or would lose their faith as well.

Has anyone else had an experience where a deeper exploration of Christianity or Christian History challenged their beliefs?

HopperUK
Apr 29, 2007

Clear off, fatso, this is a respectable establishment




Hiro Protagonist posted:

Has anyone else had an experience where a deeper exploration of Christianity or Christian History challenged their beliefs?

Honestly no, not really. Again though I was raised Catholic in the UK which is a very different thing to certain kinds of Christianity, especially American Christianity. I think for me it comes down to there being different kinds of truth. Frankly they could somehow prove tomorrow that Jesus never existed as a real person (I know there's proof he did, just an example) and it wouldn't dent my faith, or at least not much. I love learning more about history and about Christianity in general.

Deteriorata
Feb 6, 2005

The general increasing love of athletics is benefiting our young men, and making their lives better and more worth the living.

Hiro Protagonist posted:


Has anyone else had an experience where a deeper exploration of Christianity or Christian History challenged their beliefs?

Quite the opposite for me. Exploration of Christian history has only deepened my faith. My beliefs have changed some as a result, being better informed and less naive, but never really challenged in the sense of abandoning them.

Worthleast
Nov 25, 2012

Possibly the only speedboat jumps I've planned



Deteriorata posted:

Quite the opposite for me. Exploration of Christian history has only deepened my faith. My beliefs have changed some as a result, being better informed and less naive, but never really challenged in the sense of abandoning them.

Same for me. Even the more hideous scandals in history help me to see that there is more than just knucklehead man at work here. Plus history is awesome.

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

To witness titanic events is always dangerous, usually painful, and often fatal.





Hello to the new kalpa of hatposting. I am a Buddhist; I would say "Tendai" in particular after extensive reading and consideration, though between being in the US and this whole plague thing I have not been able to get out and join a community.

I will also share the Buddhism thread link: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3914597 - the OP by our own Paramemetic is a really excellent introduction to many core ideas.

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Hiro Protagonist
Oct 25, 2010

Last of the freelance hackers and
Greatest swordfighter in the world


How has that education manifested positively? For what it's worth, I was raised evangelical Protestant, went to a Lutheran College, and got my Master's at a Catholic seminary that was connected to a local Buddhist school, and now associated more with Buddhism than Christianity. I read so many books by people like Elaine Pagels and other atheist/agnostic Biblical scholars, and I saw the other students wrestle with or lose their faith so often, that it wore me down in a way. It wasn't some sudden moment of deconversion, but a gradual wearing down.

Part of that was probably that the school was from a very different tradition, so I had difficulty interacting with the community religiously, and if I had that support, I may have turned out differently. That's partially why I'm posting; I never felt I could talk with others about my crisis, and because of it, I feel I never gave Christianity a "proper chance."

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