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HopperUK
Apr 29, 2007

Clear off, fatso, this is a respectable establishment




Hello all,

I am a cradle Catholic who used to have a very simple certain faith. Then I was an atheist for ten years or so and now I once again consider myself Catholic. My politics are way to the left and I am definitely out of alignment with the church on a number of issues but, in terms of the actual religion, that's the one for me.

I recently found my rosary that I thought I'd lost so excellent result there.

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HopperUK
Apr 29, 2007

Clear off, fatso, this is a respectable establishment




Nth Doctor posted:

I like to take that now a step further: I have no place standing between somone and their concept of divinity, of holiness, of guidance from Gods...I recognize dieties worshipped by others as the way that they best experience holiness, and try not to project my own view of God into their experiences, into their worship, and into their faith.

This is my attitude to other people's faiths also.

HopperUK
Apr 29, 2007

Clear off, fatso, this is a respectable establishment




Hiro Protagonist posted:

Has anyone else had an experience where a deeper exploration of Christianity or Christian History challenged their beliefs?

Honestly no, not really. Again though I was raised Catholic in the UK which is a very different thing to certain kinds of Christianity, especially American Christianity. I think for me it comes down to there being different kinds of truth. Frankly they could somehow prove tomorrow that Jesus never existed as a real person (I know there's proof he did, just an example) and it wouldn't dent my faith, or at least not much. I love learning more about history and about Christianity in general.

HopperUK
Apr 29, 2007

Clear off, fatso, this is a respectable establishment




I think you can and must have a relationship with his writings and his works without having the same relationship with the man himself. I adore Dickens and he was a right poo poo to his wife too.

HopperUK
Apr 29, 2007

Clear off, fatso, this is a respectable establishment




My old boss was a big fan of Kali as I recall, but my boss now is more into Shiva. I used to work with a young guy who had a little statue of Ganesha on his desk. Love the statue game in Hinduism!

HopperUK
Apr 29, 2007

Clear off, fatso, this is a respectable establishment




It's hard to explain internal events to folk isn't it? I was just thinking about one of the very few what I'd term 'religious experiences' I've had and it boils down to 'I saw a very beautiful cloud' but it feels like there aren't words in English to explain what actually happened.

HopperUK
Apr 29, 2007

Clear off, fatso, this is a respectable establishment




PantlessBadger posted:



Bit blurry, but that's what you get when trying to take pictures of silly hats, I guess.

Excellent hat, vicar

HopperUK
Apr 29, 2007

Clear off, fatso, this is a respectable establishment




Praise Dog!

HopperUK
Apr 29, 2007

Clear off, fatso, this is a respectable establishment




zonohedron posted:

Honestly that's something I never expected to find on Something Awful, but found anyway: this thread prays for each other, encourages each other, and is just bizarrely wholesome. I love y'all

Love you too innit <3 This thread is a lovely place.

HopperUK
Apr 29, 2007

Clear off, fatso, this is a respectable establishment




White Coke posted:

I'm not Catholic, but as I understand it being a Catholic who is opposed to many of the actions of the Church is something with a long historical precedent.

It's basically traditional at this point.

My cat is 19 years old and if she doesn't stop sneaking downstairs, eating dog food and then hurling it all over my bed, she isn't going to be 20. Little poo poo is 100% healthy and made out of screams.

She soft though.

HopperUK
Apr 29, 2007

Clear off, fatso, this is a respectable establishment




Fritz the Horse posted:

Does anyone have recommendations for places to purchase Catholic religious items? Like Etsy stores or something? I'd rather patronize artists than big stores.

Specifically I'm looking for a St. Francis of Assisi medallion for my brother and his girlfriend who recently got a big golden retriever (gf is very Catholic).

Looks like the place I've used before is UK-only since we seceded from the planet. :/

HopperUK
Apr 29, 2007

Clear off, fatso, this is a respectable establishment




Josef bugman posted:

Things shouldn't be able to make up for other things...The purpose of justice is restitution and the creation of something better. If there is no justice or no punishment then there is no consequence for wrong action. If you allow for people to do wrong action and then be happy, thrive and grow stronger then there is no such thing as wrong action...Sure, I understand that, but the operative thing I am looking for is an argument as to why we should forgive ourselves. How is something to work on in the future.

It's possible to grow and learn and undergo consequences, and also to forgive yourself. You're very caught up in ideas of what people 'deserve' and a specific form of justice. You've heard the saying 'an eye for an eye makes all the world blind'? Retribution and justice aren't the same thing.

We should forgive ourselves because otherwise we will spend our whole lives unhappy, tearing ourselves apart over perceived 'sins' which may or may not actually be as bad as we imagine, obsessing over whether we are 'good people' or 'bad people' as if those are real concrete ideas and not fluctuating states of being we all inhabit sometimes. You can learn from your mistakes, even your terrible mistakes, and move forward with your life to make it worth something. But I think you've mentioned that you believe people *should* remain unhappy forever under some circumstances and I guess that's just a difference in worldview.

HopperUK
Apr 29, 2007

Clear off, fatso, this is a respectable establishment




Josef bugman posted:

Again in response of the second bolded bit,. Yes. That is what I am going for and that is fine. It isn't really fine and that is why I am continually discussing it on the internet, but still.

It isn't fine. Suffering is not fine. You being unhappy and hating yourself is not fine. Your ideas are hurting you. I'm about to head out to work so please don't take this as my being flippant or brusque or anything but I think we're friends, and I think you deserve to be happy, and not tearing yourself in half all the time, and we should talk about this properly sometime. You know how to get hold of me. ...though not right now clearly cause I do have to go to work.

HopperUK
Apr 29, 2007

Clear off, fatso, this is a respectable establishment




Forgetting and forgiving are not at ALL the same thing though. I think you're right in that if we hurt someone, it's not a bad thing that we feel bad about it. But we shouldn't torment ourselves forever. That sucks and does no good.

HopperUK
Apr 29, 2007

Clear off, fatso, this is a respectable establishment




Josef bugman posted:

Who is the best boy, Christopher or Guinefort?

1) You have to have compassion for yourself to an extent, you are not a less worthy person than everyone around you, trust me

2) Guinefort is best boy for cuddles, Christopher is best boy for crossing rivers, Dog be praised.

HopperUK
Apr 29, 2007

Clear off, fatso, this is a respectable establishment




Josef bugman posted:

I would disagree, but only a bit. For starters I think that Inceldom comes out of a similar impulse but instead of aiming the loathing inward alone it instead gets broadcast to anyone who is vaguely feminine. Indeed, I would say that the problem with Inceldom and "black pill" poo poo in general is that the disdain for the self is not amplified and focussed. It is instead aimed outwardly. If incels truly believed in what they state then they would keep quiet and allow themselves to suffer. But since that is not all they feel they instead aim it outwardly at other people. "These other people are the fault for my problems because of [X]", that sort of idea. It can be anything as silly as "hot girls won't date me" to "my skull is the wrong shape", but instead of focussing on actions done it is instead focussed on things other people are.

If you've made a thread or having anything to say more about it would love to hear about it, though more than understandable if the subject is a bit invasive!


Who is a better judge on ones internal world and actions than ourselves? We just have to counter-balance our intrinsic drives/ automatic excuse making. Though I do appreciate you saying so!

I would also have accepted Gelert as best boy, but yes they both are the best boy.

To be honest Gelert and Guinefort feel like very similar dogs.

My guy we are the worst people to judge ourselves because we see ourselves so unclearly. IMO anyway.

HopperUK
Apr 29, 2007

Clear off, fatso, this is a respectable establishment




You're a loose cannon, God, but you get results!

HopperUK
Apr 29, 2007

Clear off, fatso, this is a respectable establishment




Josef bugman posted:


This is like the office meme. It's just me going "they are the same picture".

They are super not the same thing. JB I really like you but sometimes I want to find whoever taught you about guilt and recrimination and morality and smack them around with a loaf of bread. Even if that person is you. Especially if it's you.

HopperUK
Apr 29, 2007

Clear off, fatso, this is a respectable establishment




I'm not sure about the existence of Hell to be honest, but I am someone who hopes fervently that if there is a Hell, it's empty. I hope with all my heart for universal salvation. For the ultimate reconciliation of everyone in love, once freed of the pains and distortions and wreckage of the world. I hope.

HopperUK
Apr 29, 2007

Clear off, fatso, this is a respectable establishment




Cythereal posted:

I think my favorite example of covid and sacraments lately was a Jewish friend of mine who got married in October. Her fiance, now wife, is blind on top of that. Given the circumstances, the entire wedding was conducted as a skype video conference with everyone except the rabbi, even the brides, in jeans-and-t-shirt standard.

https://i.imgur.com/0PXx3X4.mp4
That sounds absolutely wonderful. Perfect wedding.

Just felt like boasting again that my cat allows the bellyscratch. But only if she is being cradled upside-down in my arms like a baby. Then it is okay. At all other times it's cause for murders. My cat is very old and has many rules. Which pets are allowed is entirely based on which sleeping spot she's in. We can cuddle at night if I'm lying on my right side, but if I'm on my left side, that is *incorrect*.

I'm saying I think my cat has set herself up as the head of a religion and I am her one cultist trying to extrapolate meaning from a million apparently-random rules and I am sure she has a greater purpose in mind, but I cannot comprehend it.



(in this position belly scratch is okay but don't withdraw your hand too fast, lest you be seized)

HopperUK
Apr 29, 2007

Clear off, fatso, this is a respectable establishment




BattyKiara posted:

I'm recovering from having had a total nervous breakdown. Happy to see you are all still posting. I love to read here, but scared of posting in virtually all threads.

Hello mate.

Today I finished purging my Animal Crossing island of all traces of Christmas and there are ice pillars everywhere in varying colours. This passes for an achievement, especially for a Sunday.

HopperUK
Apr 29, 2007

Clear off, fatso, this is a respectable establishment




I did an effortpost back in the thread* about what I believe about why the world is the way that it is and why that isn't incompatible with a benevolent God. The short version I guess is that - God didn't *create* say, earthquakes. They're a natural physical consequence of how the planet is built. It might be that a tectonically active planet is necessary for life to exist at all and you get earthquakes as a result of that. That sort of thing.

I mean I doubt we're going to solve The Problem Of Evil in this thread when people have fretted on it for millennia. But for me at least, that's part of faith. Not accepting that bad things happen and that's All God's Plan and so we shouldn't fix it. But accepting that bad things happen because of the nature of humanity's free will, or the nature of the planet, or how our biology sometimes goes wonky, and God's plan is that we *should* try to fix it. I don't know why that's God's plan, but I believe in a God of love and compassion, so I trust him. That's where faith is. You can't reason your way to an omnipotent, omnibenevolent, omniscient God in the world we have.

*e: it was in the old thread sorry, it wasn't super insightful anyway, I ain't no expert

HopperUK
Apr 29, 2007

Clear off, fatso, this is a respectable establishment




Yeah it says in Genesis that the reason God expels Adam and Eve from the garden is that they've eaten from the Tree of Knowledge, and if they stay they might eat from the Tree of Life and become 'like us'.

The Genesis story seems to really be two stories tacked together and I enjoy it a lot.

Ah here we go, Genesis 3 22 onward:

22 Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”— 23 therefore the Lord God sent him out of the garden of Eden to till the ground from which he was taken. 24 So He drove out the man; and He placed cherubim at the east of the garden of Eden, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to guard the way to the tree of life.

HopperUK
Apr 29, 2007

Clear off, fatso, this is a respectable establishment




docbeard posted:

Burying ninjas rather than making use of them does seem ill-advised.

We buried one ninja out back a few years ago and now every drat year there's ninjas popping up all over the place.

HopperUK
Apr 29, 2007

Clear off, fatso, this is a respectable establishment




Nth Doctor posted:

My ADHD is raging something fierce

Solidarity mate. I got diagnosed a few weeks ago and it's contextualised a lot about my life in general.

HopperUK
Apr 29, 2007

Clear off, fatso, this is a respectable establishment




I'd like to ask for prayer for the soul of Mary and strength for her daughter Emily, my dear friend, newly bereaved.

HopperUK
Apr 29, 2007

Clear off, fatso, this is a respectable establishment




Bilirubin posted:

Hi again religonthread!

[TELL] me about this icon



I assume it is Saint's Michael and...Raphael? I found it last fall in the neighbourhood while walking the dog, and try as I might (posting on my town's lost and found boards on both Facebook and Reddit) I could not find its owner. It's made by a Greek company based on the label on the reverse but a handwritten note on the reverse, in Romanian, suggests it was given to a dear possibly younger person but a aunt or grandmother or whatever, on the event of whatever feasts day or event took place on the Sunday of June 21, 2019. I could find no names, so I will drop it off at the Romanian Orthodox church in town and hope it can either find its way back to the owner (its nice gold leaf after all) or be given to another.

So anyway, the question: what purpose does this icon serve, what is it used for, what do those fine angelic types represent, etc. I'd like to know more about this little thing on my desk.

A quick google suggests that the angel on the left is definitely Michael, who's depicted in some Orthodox traditions with a sword and scroll. It's fascinating to me because I'd associate the scroll with Gabriel. Can't see what the right-hand angel has in his left hand! Raphael has a staff sometimes though. I hope an Orthogoon can shed light, I love angel pictures, even when they're not insane four-faced eyewheels.

HopperUK
Apr 29, 2007

Clear off, fatso, this is a respectable establishment




Yeah I think 'my idea of a Real Jewish Person is someone who is essentially a different species from the rest of humanity' is anti-semitic whether you think those people are better than you or worse. Especially since that's untold millions of Jewish people whom that cult would consider fake.

HopperUK
Apr 29, 2007

Clear off, fatso, this is a respectable establishment




That kid sounds like a blast to watch at least. Chaotic tea ceremonies! Hot water everywhere! gently caress your cups!

HopperUK
Apr 29, 2007

Clear off, fatso, this is a respectable establishment




I dunno I kind of assumed the Bengali kid in question was having a ball being a grumpy careless shithead. Living his best life.

HopperUK
Apr 29, 2007

Clear off, fatso, this is a respectable establishment




Spacegrass posted:

I read the Koran, even though I'm Christian. In a lot of that book they use the word "We", often. Like: "We created man, from sperm". Sometimes I think it may be Aliens that wrote some of this book. Thoughts all?

God sometimes refers to himself in the plural in the Bible, too. 'Let us make Man in our image' and such. Probably a leftover from a more polytheistic tradition in that case, from my very basic understanding. I do not think it was aliens. I think suggesting the Koran, or the Bible or any other ancient text was written by aliens is insulting to ancient people.

HopperUK
Apr 29, 2007

Clear off, fatso, this is a respectable establishment




Gaius Marius posted:

I know very little about Islam, but I do know they constantly bullied Christians about it back in the day, likening it to Polytheism.

I mean I've had Christian fundamentalists (and weirdly one Jehovah's Witness who was a real dick) tell me that Catholicism is polytheistic.

Man that one JW was a total rear end in a top hat. The ones who usually come around here are very nice but he was very much a Reddit Atheist in tone, just without the atheism part. Scoffed at my ideas and 'well actually'ed me about stuff.

HopperUK
Apr 29, 2007

Clear off, fatso, this is a respectable establishment




Spacegrass posted:

Could also mean there is more than one God. Sub-Gods or whatever. Anyway, the confusion is overwhelming to me.

What confusion? Are you okay? Seriously, I'm not being Internet Sarcastic, are you all right?

HopperUK
Apr 29, 2007

Clear off, fatso, this is a respectable establishment




Nth Doctor posted:

So I feel very fortunate. While my Grandfather's care team don't see him as getting better, neither has he begun "transitioning" as my parents put it. I was able to speak to him and his wife tonight. He's still lucid, and cheerful though he couldn't recall Mrs. Doctor's name. I was able to have my kids say hello and tell him that they loved him.



I'm so glad of that. I was with my father on the day he passed away and it meant the world that I was able to be there, though he wasn't conscious. I feel very lucky that I was able to say goodbye.

HopperUK
Apr 29, 2007

Clear off, fatso, this is a respectable establishment




Happy Easter! He is risen wheeee

Saw 'Mary Magdalene' trending on twitter and had a sensible chuckle.

HopperUK
Apr 29, 2007

Clear off, fatso, this is a respectable establishment




Mine is by Madeleine L'Engle.

quote:

Mary Speaks:

O you who bear the pain of the whole earth,
I bore you.
O you whose tears give human tears their worth,
I laughed with you.
You, who, when your hem is touched, give power,
I nourished you.
Who turn the day to night in this dark hour,
light comes from you.
O you who hold the world in your embrace,
I carried you.
Whose arms encircled the world with your grace,
I once held you.
O you who laughed and ate and walked the shore,
I played with you.
And I, who with all others, you died for,
now I hold you.

May I be faithful to this final test:
in this last time I hold my child, my son,
his body close enfolded to my breast,
the holder held: the bearer borne.
Mourning to joy: darkness to morn.
Open, my arms: your work is done.

HopperUK
Apr 29, 2007

Clear off, fatso, this is a respectable establishment




Nth Doctor posted:

My Grandfather left this life behind this morning. Ever the gentleman, he waited until my mother had left the room to go get coffee.

His last words were his musical cadence of "and I love you" in response to my mom. His pain is over and while I'll miss him, I'm glad he is at rest.

Light eternal. I'm glad he was able to say goodbye. Make sure to take a bit of time for yourself if you need to.

HopperUK
Apr 29, 2007

Clear off, fatso, this is a respectable establishment




This is totally beside the point but we have had wild hares for a very long time. Rabbits were much more recent though. Lagomorph history is very important to me!

HopperUK
Apr 29, 2007

Clear off, fatso, this is a respectable establishment




Bar Ran Dun posted:

If one is into feminist theology, She Who Is, is pretty good.

https://www.amazon.com/She-Who-Feminist-Theological-Discourse/dp/0824519256

Oooooo! Thanks, this looks up my alley.

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HopperUK
Apr 29, 2007

Clear off, fatso, this is a respectable establishment




If you check your catechism it says that:

“By calling God ‘Father’, the language of Faith indicates two main things: that God is the first origin of everything and transcendent authority; and that he is at the same time goodness and loving care for all his children. God’s parental tenderness can also be expressed by the image of motherhood, which emphasises God’s immanence, the intimacy between Creator and creature. The language of faith thus draws on the human experience of parents, who are in a way the first representatives of God for man.”

And that God "transcends the human distinction between the sexes. He is neither man nor woman: he is God."

So there's room even within strict Catholicism to consider these things, I think.

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