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Introduction Edit: I'm Presbyterian by chance. I don't really know what "my" beliefs are. A Presbyterian church happened to care well for me we I needed it. It had also intentionally brought on Black leadership to address racism. Hugely healing experience for me. Same pastor is responsible for keeping me in the church. I was ready to leave the faith when Trump was elected on the white Evangelical voted. But then that pastor came on and showed me a HUGE portion of Christians of Color in America have good answers to my questions about Evangelicalism. I'm currently in church limbo. Having moved, my new church was silent last summer. I haven't tuned in, but I imagine they remain silent. I'll check in with congregants and evaluate whether or not staying to interrupt a largely white space is worthwhile. Captain von Trapp posted:Some of the theological issues like the age of the universe were thought about and discussed a thousand years before modern cosmology. I would like to read about this! What's your source(s) you're referring to? ThePopeOfFun fucked around with this message at 05:34 on Jan 14, 2021 |
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Jan 14, 2021 05:15
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Hiro Protagonist posted:How do people in this thread deal with the constructed nature of Christianity? So much of what Christians take for granted theologically is the result of centuries of discussion and argument from people who based their thoughts on their assumptions. While it was originally focused entirely on Jewish issues and identity, it quickly focused on Roman theological concerns and developed alongside that culture's assumptions, both logical and cosmic. If the Trinity and Jesus' relationship to God are both developed from a worldview we no longer agree with, can they still be valid? I think this comes down to Jesus' claims about himself, whether you believe them or not. While constructed, there is also consensus. I'm not sure we can expect a religion or system of belief to develop any other way than through the people who first received it. Paul agrees with you in part (to the Jew first, then to the Greek), of course. It HAS been a problem for me that the white US church has constructed a centuries old faith to justify and dance around confronting white supremacy/Christian nationalism. That's my primary concern at the moment. EDIT: I think it's also practice. Christianity very much should be an active religion and understanding comes through practice. ThePopeOfFun fucked around with this message at 17:17 on Jan 14, 2021 |
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Jan 14, 2021 16:48
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I agree with Fritz. Talking about how our beliefs affect how we live is super important. Arguing that beliefs, especially regarding one's behavior, should be enshrined in law is way beyond the purview of our thread.
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Jan 25, 2021 06:36
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%BCnster_rebellion
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Jan 25, 2021 17:17
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We DESPERATELY want to fit a narrative on events that happen. Miracles, God's will, blessing or curse, etc. This can order the world from a perspective, but completely falls apart in these circumstances. And we want to inflict our narratives on others. Did God kill someone to provide you a kidney? This is the silliness that crops up. The fact is we do not know WHY you received a kidney, only THAT it happened. I wouldn't personally call this a miracle. That word has a specific definition, which varies depending who you ask. Typically something that can't naturally happen or be explained by nature. In your case, we have systems for distribution. Someone planned ahead to benefit a stranger if the occasion transpired. It did, and although unlikely, it isn't naturally impossible to find a match. In my mind, it's more worthwhile to remember your donor, thank them, and honor their death how you feel you should. Also survivor's guilt is very real, like said previously.
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Jan 30, 2021 07:58
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Dapper_Swindler posted:i only call it a miracle because so many around me have, i know my mother thinks that but you know, shes my mom. My apologies, I was meaning to talk about those around you.
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Jan 31, 2021 04:51
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ulmont posted:This is of course the natural implication of an omniscient God. This depends on your tradition. I read this wonderful critique of Calvinism from an Orthodox perspective. Foreknowledge doesn't necessarily require forewilling. If I'm remembering what I read right. Also Calvin neglected to read other church fathers. Edit: Heh, beaten.
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Feb 4, 2021 23:38
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ulmont posted:merely a logical consequence thereof, and I find the critique unconvincing. You know more about this topic than I do. I haven't read Barth. I reject Calvinism because of its obsession with logical consequence. It's all if A, then B. And yet I am a finite being, trying to reason from the finite, how specifically the infinite Mover perceives and interacts with reality. An impossible task! Better in my opinion to hold the paradox in faith.
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Feb 5, 2021 01:02
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I don't love this answer, but it came to me while I was thinking about the omnipotence and evil discussion. If we're going to grant that a being is omnipotent and take issue with evil's presence, we also have to allow that an omnipowerful being could have a good reason for suffering existing that we simply can't understand. Perhaps Deity could have created everything otherwise, but maybe there's good reasons we just dont know, given our distance from Divinity. This is very Job, of course. From my readings of scripture, especially Jeremiah and Lamentations, the solution then is not to abandon God, but to channel your anger about this at God, and doing that is Wisdom somehow. I've seen many posters say something like, "If God ___, then I've got some serious words for God when we meet." I think that is in fact the proper response, but from my perspective you don't have to wait to dish your beef. You should dish your beef to God now and unceasingly, and that's Wise.
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Feb 8, 2021 08:35
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I don't know Bruenig, and don't know editors. Forgiveness from the proper perspective is invaluable. See Miroslav Volf's Exclusion and Embrace. I'll cop to an allergy to her two statements up there, though. So much "forgiveness" narrative in US air, come from white Evangelicals or Christian Nationalists handwaving personal and ancestral accountability. Ted Cruz after the recent attempted coup at the Capital, for example. There's a firm resistance to the true grief and repentance that could ease forgiveness along so many lines, namely racial. She seems aware of this, and I doubt I'm talking about the same issue. But that's my first blush take on forgiveness "as a topic."
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Feb 9, 2021 01:42
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HopperUK posted:Solidarity mate. I got diagnosed a few weeks ago and it's contextualised a lot about my life in general. SAME. Like last week. Holy buckets life makes sense now.
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Feb 10, 2021 05:03
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Morning Bell posted:glamorising of the Us and dehumanising of the Person It is better for an abuser to not have the means to abuse, just as it is good for the abused to attain relief from abuse. Your posts read like they have an aversion to accountability. Can you clarify what you're getting at?
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Feb 11, 2021 06:21
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Thanks. I appreciate you laying that out and agree on principal. The following is not an account of you, just where I'm at and how I react to the general idea and warning. In practice, that line and caution gets trotted out when power feels threatened. At least it has in my experience. Whether confronting racism and whiteness in a church, bad leaders in a church, or even that Gamestop stock fiasco -- outlets were running stories on how bad Wall Street felt -- the gut reaction that springs up and voices a primary need for an abuser to be comforted or forgiven, in a moment of accountability, is a huge red flag for me. It makes me wonder, where is the carnal, gut reaction for the injured party? Why does accountability for certain power bring up such gut reactions? I agree vengeance is the Lord's, and that thirst for revenge is as deadly as sin.
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Feb 11, 2021 07:39
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So to bring it full circle, my interaction with those tweets is something more like, yes forgiveness is a core Christian practice, but I see grief, confession and repentance as MORE necessary Christian practices.
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Feb 11, 2021 09:58
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Extremely relevant talk happening today from https://twitter.com/KyleJamesHoward. He's a baptist who left his church and many leadership positions there because of really really bad racism. He's now a trauma-informed counselor and posts a lot about toxic theology. He's recording a video on "Repentance vs. DARVO (Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim & Offender)." He also recorded a video about someone John Piper's ministry is giving platform to, who says empathy is a sin. Extremely worth watching, especially if you're used to hearing people source their arguments from Biblical texts. https://twitter.com/KyleJamesHoward/status/1359552447908298758?s=20 You know he's doing well when people Venmo him money to leave racist comments. I've found a few voices on twitter, Bradly Mason included, who have been extremely helpful in figuring out why my church past and present gives me the heebie jeebies.
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Feb 11, 2021 18:13
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Nessus posted:How the hecc could EMPATHY be a sin. I could see how like, it could become pathological, or how you could have behavior that vaguely resembles empathy but is actually harmful to yourself and others, but the core idea? There's some WILDNESS coming out into the open that's always been there quietly. You can dig into those tweets and find the specific claims. I don't really care to give it air here. Needless to say, lots of denominations are in rupture. Cythereal has spoken to the Southern Baptist Convention, but they're particularly coming to a head. I'd say the PCA is also on the way there, but they have more hierarchy, tradition and roots so it'll be slower.
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Feb 11, 2021 20:37
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TOOT BOOT posted:How does the ashes thing work anyway, do churches actually burn palm fronds locally and use the ashes, or is there some company that sells the ashes, or what? Typically you burn the palm branches from Palm Sunday. I'm sure not everyone does, but many do. Branches come from church supply stores or locally, if you can grow palms.
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Feb 18, 2021 20:11
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Gunshow Poophole posted:Found this in an aged relative's house it's a painting of st George (he's holding a spear and stabbing + trampling a dragon). Ask over in a history thread, probably.
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Feb 22, 2021 05:40
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Are you surprised that the trappings of a system specifically designed to subvert and blaspheme someone's entire worldview comes across as frightening? Especially when said individual believes in a spiritual realm, replete with demons. Like yeah they're going to be scared, that's the whole point.
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Feb 24, 2021 18:36
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I feel you. I asked that as a huge metal head. Like, I can handle pentagrams and decay and goats, but I know better than to wear it to grandma's. That being said, I have a theory that metal dons the scary trappings to frighten away the kind of people who harmed others during the satanic panic. I also think your brand of Satanism brings up an interesting point, much like the Satanic Temple suing for not being allowed to have Satan after-school programs. In one's workplace, would crosses be allowed? Depends where you are. And depending on your experience or perspective, crosses might indeed be terrifying. But with Christian Nationalism going ham all over the US, why are we more worried about a goat? As a protest vehicle, it's wildly effective because it does indeed touch at the core worldviews inherent to much oppression. At least as far as whiteness is concerned.
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Feb 24, 2021 19:05
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Two things surprised me about this article. One, the Archbishop is not anti-vax. That's how I read OP's comment, anyway.NO Archbishop posted:“In doing so, we advise that if the Moderna or Pfizer vaccine is available, Catholics should choose to receive either of those vaccines rather than receive the new Johnson & Johnson vaccine because of its extensive use of abortion-derived cell lines.” Seems reasonable for an Archbishop, considering Catholic teaching. Second, regarding vaccine production. Article posted:They were made from eye cells from an 18-week-old fetus aborted in 1985, according to Science. Which strikes me as upsetting, but also contradicts common "parts factory" narratives. I don't know how to reconcile Catholic teaching and the above fact, but it's not something "experts" are going to be able to help an Archbishop on.
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Mar 2, 2021 21:32
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Hey Guns winning souls without even posting. It's a miracle.
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Mar 5, 2021 01:40
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Unironically, yes. Often also YouTubers who don't know what they're talking about. Not a new problem by any means.
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Mar 6, 2021 07:19
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The most ecumenical meal is probably a fast.
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Mar 9, 2021 03:06
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Some churches where an individual speaks in tongues require and elder or other leader to interpret for the congregation. Difficult when the entire church is part of the ritual. I don't want to say more, because I was not and have never been charismatic!
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Mar 15, 2021 16:54
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My friend memorized her youth pastor's "spirit language." I think many reformed traditions neglect the Holy Spirit (and in turn treat God as functionally deist in their practice) so I try to be more understanding with people I meet in person. Congregation-wide tongues sounds a lot like vain repetition to enter into a changed emotional state or force an "impactful" worship service, which Jesus addresses in Matthew 6:7. I can personally permit this sort of tongues on an individual level, provided there is an interpreter. A sudden adoption of congregational tongues would be extremely frustrating to me, as well.
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Mar 15, 2021 22:03
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Paul talks about it in 1 Corinthians 14. Or something to do with tongues. I don't know the specifics, but it's not a separate language so much as an event which requires church oversight. Unless we're talking about what happens in the Acts of the Apostles. In which case, those are other human languages. Hah. I realize I said I wouldn't talk about it because it's not my tradition, so I'm going to shut up about it now.
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Mar 15, 2021 23:27
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The only thing I could see is conflating Chastity's specific mechanics with Chastity the virture, which yes, includes a degree of seminal retention. Otherwise, it completely misses the whole notion of desire and community participants' responsibility towards the community.
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Mar 19, 2021 23:11
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Dude specifically targeted Asian people in a space that is coded Asian. His "addiction" can be wrapped up in that, too. Fetishizing goes hand in hand with racism. It's all wrapped up in the same bucket of disease. FWIW consuming lust that leads to unwanted sexual behavior (buying sex, pornography, seeing multiple partners without "wanting" to) has been statistically linked to deep seated anger. See Jay Stringer's book, "Unwanted" for his study on that. Re: Purity Culture, I could see purity culture playing a roll, but it's a little more ethereal and subconscious. Sex is icky and stay ignorant until you're married, including ignorance of your own body. So women who grew up in it are more statistically prone to vaginismus and fewer orgasms/less pleasure. And most of the real bad outcomes happen to women in it, but it also teaches both sexes that the female body is bad. All that to say it's damaging, but not in the same way as other ideologies. This crime is better explained with whiteness, self-loathing, hate, and whatever drives all these white teen/twenty something men to mass shootings. EDIT: Racism as an explanation also demands community culpability and reform, which is also the reason everyone wants to avoid it. Religion can be written off as not true, addicts are crazy, but racism means we've all got a problem on our hands in the US. ThePopeOfFun fucked around with this message at 17:06 on Mar 22, 2021 |
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Mar 22, 2021 04:33
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Tias posted:Uuuh guys he specifically thought it was okay to murder asian american women and discard their bodies like garbage on the ground. The fact that US politicians and media talk about his tragic addiction or bad day or whatever is because they hate asians as well, not because he doesn't. Yeah this.
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Mar 22, 2021 17:06
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That and philosophy isn't really considered until college, and even then only if you're in liberal arts, and even then only if they require a PHIL 101 course. I didn't know about substance and accident until I was a junior in college. My church was not very formal on theology, either. Pretty sad, honestly.
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Mar 24, 2021 05:36
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The real questions of faith. Thank you for bringing this up, I have wondered the same. I imagine fringe genital products/services and their peddlers have not changed at all, ever. See: gas station supplements, popups and the like.
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Mar 29, 2021 01:19
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docbeard posted:Hi, Thomas the Fact Checker here, and we give this claim of a Risen Christ five Doubting Me's until such time as we are able to personally examine the wounds in this so-called risen...hang on, someone wants to show me something. This is personally moving, thank you. I like to imagine Peter as pretty freaked out, ashamed and desperate post-betrayal, so John letting him get the first peep is kind of touching.
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Apr 4, 2021 16:08
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docbeard posted:Peter's portrayal in the Gospels as sort of an overenthusiastic puppy-man who completely fell apart at the crucifixion and had a (completely understandable but personally horrifying) moment of weakness while in fear for his life, and the risen Christ's subsequent lifting him back up in the kindest and gentlest way possible is just so, so wonderful. Truly. Jesus laying out a coal fire gets me every time.
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Apr 4, 2021 16:20
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Lutha Mahtin posted:bud, the bible uses feminine language to describe god and aspects of god in several places. that's what im talking about. im not talking about sola scriptura or the pope or anything Does it use feminine pronouns though? Edit: I really don't know enough to have a dog in this fight. But it seems significant if there aren't feminine pronouns in the text. ThePopeOfFun fucked around with this message at 17:49 on Apr 14, 2021 |
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Apr 14, 2021 17:47
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A vision by no means puts you outside of the religionthread crowd.
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Jun 11, 2021 13:11
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Crazy Joe Wilson posted:No mention whatsoever of the dozens of stakeburnings he ordered while in Geneva, or other Protestant leaders and their antics. Calvin burned people at the stake??????
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Sep 23, 2021 23:06
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