|
I'm a Methodist and consequently too boring to have an edgy opinion on much of anything.quote:The distinguishing marks of a Methodist are not his opinions of any sort. His assenting to this or that scheme of Religion, his embracing any particular set of notions, his espousing the judgment of one man or of another, are all quite wide of the point. Whosoever therefore imagines, that a Methodist is a man of such or such an opinion, is grossly ignorant of the whole affair; he mistakes the truth totally. We believe indeed, that all Scripture is given by the inspiration of God, and herein we are distinguished from Jews, Turks, and Infidels. We believe the written word of God to be the only and sufficient rule, both of Christian faith and practice; and herein we are fundamentally distinguished from those of the Romish church. We believe Christ to be the eternal, supreme God; and herein we are distinguished from the Socinians and Arians. But as to all opinions which do not strike at the root of Christianity, we think and let think. So that whatsoever they are, whether right or wrong, they are no distinguishing marks of a; Methodist.
|
#
¿
Jan 13, 2021 18:04
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ Apr 24, 2024 21:11 |
|
|
Hiro Protagonist posted:
Quite the opposite for me. Exploration of Christian history has only deepened my faith. My beliefs have changed some as a result, being better informed and less naive, but never really challenged in the sense of abandoning them.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 14, 2021 03:21
|
|
|
Hiro Protagonist posted:How do people in this thread deal with the constructed nature of Christianity? So much of what Christians take for granted theologically is the result of centuries of discussion and argument from people who based their thoughts on their assumptions. While it was originally focused entirely on Jewish issues and identity, it quickly focused on Roman theological concerns and developed alongside that culture's assumptions, both logical and cosmic. If the Trinity and Jesus' relationship to God are both developed from a worldview we no longer agree with, can they still be valid? The universe did not change when the heliocentric model was developed, only our way of describing it. Reality is what it is regardless of us; we're all blind men trying to describe an elephant to each other. Similarly, God did not change, only Man's attempt to describe him and our interactions with him. We've always been wrong in our attempts to use finite words and concepts to describe the infinite. I think we're less wrong than we used to be, but still struggling.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 14, 2021 16:12
|
|
|
Nessus posted:I think some of that stuff requires ready access to the Scriptures themselves. While I am not sure how literate or illiterate populations like European peasantry in the middle ages actually were, I am confident they probably did not have home access to the Bible. There were huge throngs packing cathedrals at midnight of 999 A.D., expecting Christ to return. Lots of people sold all they had and otherwise committed themselves to it. It was absolutely a thing. Of course, then they figured out it wasn't 1000 years after Christ was born, it was supposed to be 1000 years after he died. So there were even bigger throngs awaiting Christ's return in 1033. It doesn't take everyone having access to the Bible. It only requires a few literate nuts to whip up crowds into believing it.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 21, 2021 23:51
|
|
|
Josef bugman posted:Hey, take that back! I have an unhealthy way of thinking about myself. My other opinions are fine. No, it colors everything about you. You tend to have very absolutist, unhealthy opinions about almost everything.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 22, 2021 02:18
|
|
|
Fritz the Horse posted:Yeah I'm familiar with the Munster rebellion in general terms, just wondered if docbeard had a favorite telling of that history. It relates to my own family history. Two Swiss Anabaptist/Mennonite brothers fled persecution in Switzerland down the Rhine on a raft in the latter half of the 17th century. They spent some time in the Netherlands, then crossed over to England and caught a ship to America in 1719. They joined the Pennsylvania Dutch community around Lancaster, PA (their original homestead still stands, apparently). After the American revolution, they moved to Canada to remain British subjects. The Great Depression sent my grandfather to the US to work for Ford, who then moved him to Michigan during WWII.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 25, 2021 18:25
|
|
|
Bar Ran Dun posted:I got the avatar with a red text for pissing somebody off. I used to post in the D&D religion threads regularly and someone gave it to me. I don’t know who it is. It grew on me over time so I just kept it when I changed the text. GIS says it's the martyrdom of St. Stephen.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 26, 2021 03:12
|
|
|
Dapper_Swindler posted:so i have a weirdly personal question. can something be a miracle if someone had to suffer/die for it to happen. so like 12 or so years ago, i was on dialysis for like 3 years because my one kidney had decided to eat poo poo and stop working. basicaly the whole experience was awful and hellish and one of my moms catholic friends gave us some Lourdes water because gently caress it. my mom does it to me and a couple weeks later, i get a kidney, a perfect matched one genetically or some poo poo. its been working for 13 or so years now and shows no signs of stopping and all my religious friends and relatives say its a miracle i feel like i should be happy and i am but someone died so i could have that kidney ai know they chose to give up their organs after death and it was there time and such. but it feels hosed up to call it a miracle and such. i will never know who that person was and i always feel bad thinking about how it could have been some mother or some father and that my "miracle" was the worst day in someone's life. i guess i still feel weirdly guilty about it. Well, people die every day regardless. It's not like someone died specifically on God's orders to give you a kidney. I don't know that I would call it a miracle, as nothing supernatural happened. It was a fortunate chain of events that started with someone choosing to donate their organs when they died. That could involve the Holy Spirit inspiring them. That person's kidney was going to go somewhere, and it happened to be you. God does not cause bad things to happen. He finds a way to make good things happen as a result of them. You were blessed. Be grateful for the gift. You need feel no guilt over it.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 30, 2021 17:28
|
|
|
ulmont posted:This is of course the natural implication of an omniscient God. Not necessarily. God knowing how things will turn out is not the same as God willfully making things happen that way.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 4, 2021 23:10
|
|
|
ulmont posted:I have seen this response before, and I find it unconvincing in the context of a sufficiently powerful God. I can know how a movie ends without being the one who made the movie. You find it unconvincing because you choose to be unconvinced. You have the power, but not the will.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 5, 2021 00:37
|
|
|
Liquid Communism posted:Given that an omnipotent god could have, without effort, designed a world without a random chance that some children are born to die a slow and cruel death for no reason, I'd say it can absolutely be evil. The answer is that that is allowed to exist for an important reason. God could build a world without that, but he didn't. Why would that be? The easy reason would be to call God evil. A more sophisticated reason would be that God knows it's really important that we as humans learn to love each other and care for each other. If no bad things can ever happen to other people, then we don't have to care about them and we remain moral infants. Why our moral development is so important to God is a much more interesting question to me.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 6, 2021 05:03
|
|
|
Morning Bell posted:I don't think the concept of forgiveness has "an implicit expectation the person returns and promises to improve [in the way the forgiver expects them to improve]". This might be quibbling over word definitions, but I don't see at all how that must be an implicit part of forgiveness - not in the Christian sense but also not in the general surely. Forgiveness is given freely and intentionally. One can forgive (probably?) conditionally but I can't at all see how being conditional is necessary or implied for it. I think there is a difference between transactional forgiveness, for lack of a better term, and unconditional. If I've been a dick to you and want to patch up the relationship, I should confess my sin, repent of what I've done, and then ask for your forgiveness so that we can continue to be friends. I should at least offer to atone in some way, as well. If I'm just generally a dick to you and never intend to change, you can forgive me as a way of letting go of the resentment and not letting me control your life through my dickishness. In that case our relationship is never really fixed, but it gives you the chance to move on and leave the baggage of me behind.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 9, 2021 03:52
|
|
|
Civilized Fishbot posted:We just did "Ash Thursday" at the Catholic school where I teach. We weren't in-person on Wednesday because of the snow (but we've been in-person the rest of the year because we need tuition money). So we got permission from our resident priest to move the ceremony to Thursday. The principal went around to each of our classrooms and wrote the cross on each student's forehead with a q-tip (a new q-tip for each student, safety first!). I'm not Catholic, but I think the correct procedure is to offer the ashes to everyone, even those whom you think won't want them. It's on the potential receiver to decline them, rather than the applier to presume or limit its availability.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 18, 2021 16:42
|
|
|
TOOT BOOT posted:How does the ashes thing work anyway, do churches actually burn palm fronds locally and use the ashes, or is there some company that sells the ashes, or what? Both. Churches often buy extra palm leaves for Palm Sunday, and the ones they don't distribute they save. Before Ash Wednesday they will have a fire and burn up the old fronds, then use the ashes for the Ash Wednesday service. There are also places that sell the palm ash (like here) if a church doesn't want to bother with doing it themselves.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 18, 2021 20:21
|
|
|
BattyKiara posted:Judas' betrayal was necessary. He repented. I have no problem with him going straight to Heaven. I'm more interested in the Bad Robber crucified next to Jesus. When Jesus clearly say to the Good Robber that they will go to Heaven together, what happened to the Bad Robber? I like C. S. Lewis' construct, that the gates of Hell are locked from the inside. It's not a permanent place, but rather a holding cell for people who haven't acknowledged the sovereignty of God. They can leave whenever they like. Not exactly a Purgatory, because residents only have to admit their own sinfulness and unworthiness to leave. There would be no penance to be paid, for example. So Heaven is attainable for all, even those who die unrepentant. I don't have to concern myself with who gets in or not, as all can get in if they want to and are willing to meet the conditions. Beyond that, it's up to God, not me. God can extend his grace of salvation to whomever He wants to, it's no business of mine.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 27, 2021 17:08
|
|
|
Bourricot posted:I self-identify as a Reformed Protestant, but more due to heritage/cultural inertia than theological grounds (to be honest, I often struggle with some parts of Reformed theology). Faith is not an academic exercise that takes place inside your head. Faith should inspire you to love other people and help them get through life. Without that, your faith is pointless.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 4, 2021 21:46
|
|
|
BattyKiara posted:Jesus was male. I don't think there is any question about that. But could God, if it wanted to, have chosen to send a daughter instead of a son? IMO, sure. Given how women were treated in society at the time, however, her life story would have been much different. Being an itinerant female preacher probably wouldn't have raised as much of a following. I think Jesus being male was pretty much necessary to accomplish his purpose on earth at that time and place. It's an interesting alt-history thing to ponder.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 15, 2021 17:30
|
|
|
NikkolasKing posted:But we are getting pretty lost in the weeds. Ultimately you would say a Christian does not ever have to actually read The Bible to be a good, faithful Christian. It's just enough to attend Mass and know what the clergy says? Of course. There are still illiterate people around who are also good, faithful Christians. Christianity is not based on what you do, it's fundamentally about grace. Your faith is what matters, not your actions. A good Christian should want to read the Bible and learn as much about their faith as possible, but it's not mandatory.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 27, 2021 17:28
|
|
|
NikkolasKing posted:Like, I hope nobody is getting the impression I try to gatekeep for religions I don't even belong to. It's not my right and I'm not quite that much of an rear end in a top hat. I would never go up to a Christian and tell them they aren't a Christian or they're a bad Christian. Faith is not a purely intellectual enterprise. You cannot learn or reason your way into faith. You can learn a lot about religion, but faith itself is something you have to feel. John Wesley had a similar problem. He'd tried to be a good Christian all his life, had followed all the rules, been ordained as a priest, and studied it intensely for years. However, he always felt off - like he didn't really get it. Then he had his Aldersgate experience and everything changed. I hope and pray that you'll experience something similar one day.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 28, 2021 15:45
|
|
|
Nessus posted:Most of these sound like motivated reasoning to help put a shine on not being able to partake of swine. A lot of the dietary laws don't have any basis other than "you're not them. They eat X, so you don't." Pork probably falls in that category - not eating it simply differentiated the Hebrews from the other groups around them. Many other laws fall are the same way. They're not particularly onerous, just picky. If you're serious about being part of the group, then this is what you do. If eating pork or wearing cloth with mixed fibers is more important to you than being a Hebrew, then  .
|
|
#
¿
May 22, 2021 04:45
|
|
|
military cervix posted:The problem of hell was on of the primary reasons I moved on from christianity. To me, it seems irreconcilable to say: The gates of Hell are locked from the inside. People there would be there because they want to be, not because they have to be. Their suffering would be their separation from God, and if they're fine with that, it's not really suffering.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 12, 2021 18:56
|
|
|
LionArcher posted:So a longish post. Bare with me. You won't find many people here that agree with them on very much. Conservative Evangelical Protestantism is kind of its own thing the rest of us do our best to ignore, or at least not engage with.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 13, 2021 01:53
|
|
|
Thirteen Orphans posted:The Old Guard of the thread might remember my long and ultimately unsuccessful attempt to enter religious life. It’s been almost 6 years since my last attempt which was with a Trappist monastery. Out of nowhere today I got a call from the Vocations Director of that monastery. He was wondering where I was in my “discernment journey” and told me he would remember me in his prayers. It was nice to hear from him, he’s a kind older monk. But the call kinda made me wonder, well, why? Not why did he call but why did this happen? Is this some kind of, for want of a better term, sign that maybe I should start thinking about trying again? My health is getting better and I’m still young enough that most places would consider me. It’s like I told my sister, I won’t get excommunicated no matter how many people say no. I’m not going to try anything anytime soon, but I might start changing how I live in a way that anticipates it. Increased prayer, etc. That would be a good thing no matter what happens. I'll put in a good word with the Boss for you. I hope things work out.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 17, 2021 15:57
|
|
|
Slimy Hog posted:I did not expect this conversation No one does.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 19, 2021 23:00
|
|
|
Viscardus posted:Hello, I have never posted here before, but I have a sincere (if slightly silly) theological question for any Catholics (or other Christian denominations that recognize sainthood): can a dog (or other animal) be a saint, and if not, why not? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Guinefort
|
|
#
¿
Jul 21, 2021 19:52
|
|
|
NikkolasKing posted:I say this with all the love and good faith in the world, I feel like every time I pick a random Bible section, I pick something that deeply irks me. The most important thing to remember is that the Bible was not handed down from On High, penned directly by the Hand of God. It is an amalgamation of hundreds of works by dozens of writers over the course of a couple thousand years. When you study a piece of scripture, the first things to ask are, "Who wrote this? Who were they writing to? When did they write it? Why did they write it?" Everything in the Bible needs to examined in terms of the culture it came from and the accepted norms of the time. There's a lot of passages that seem quite regressive today, but when you compare it to what was expected at the time turn out to be rather radical. You have to peel back the words to understand the message, then translate it through time and space to what is relevant for today.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 23, 2021 18:39
|
|
|
NikkolasKing posted:I wonder why chastity became a virtue. It's unknown to many civilizations and while I'm no great lover of sex, I cannot fathom why an all-powerful God cares where you stick your penis. So there must be something in the culture around the Abrahamic faiths that led to this odd belief. Chastity is part of self control. Controlling your basic instincts so that you are the master of them rather than letting them be the master of you. Nothing wrong with lust, but letting it run wild and damage your relationships with others is wrong.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 1, 2021 02:49
|
|
|
Gaius Marius posted:She's in a conservatorship so she's legally not in control of her own affairs. To be fair I don't know if the IUD precedes her conservatorship, but she's publicly stated she wants it removed. We're also only getting her side of the story, and she doesn't seem to be quite all there. I don't really know what to believe. It's just sad on a lot of levels. I hope and pray there is a positive resolution of it eventually.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 7, 2021 15:42
|
|
|
Another axis to consider is "how formal do I like my worship experience?" One end of the spectrum has robes, silly hats, liturgy and incense. The other end has polo shirts and blue jeans. There's lots of stuff intermediate between the two. Doctrine matters a lot, but if you can't stand the way they run their worship service, it's probably not a good fit for you.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 4, 2021 17:41
|
|
|
Killingyouguy! posted:What's interesting to me about this process, from my lovely atheist point of view, is how much individual preference and opinion seems to play into it? Worship is for us, not for God. He doesn't really care how we do it. Worship is the formal acknowledgement that there is a God in the universe, and it is not me. Caring for each other, showing justice and mercy are what actually matter and what God cares about. ETA an actual Biblcal quote Micah, chapter 6 posted:6 With what shall I come before the Lord Deteriorata fucked around with this message at 19:28 on Sep 4, 2021 |
|
#
¿
Sep 4, 2021 19:24
|
|
|
Slimy Hog posted:This 1000000% The business of setting yourself up as the judge as to the correctness of other people's behavior is a rather bad one. I find I'm happier when I focus on my own soul and getting right with God. What other people do is not my problem*. *obviously excepting violent or aggressive behavior that directly threatens others.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 14, 2021 05:10
|
|
|
|
|
#
¿
Sep 27, 2021 18:05
|
|
|
That's awesome!  Best of luck in making this leap. May God's grace be with you.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 3, 2021 19:19
|
|
|
Cyrano4747 posted:Nah, the cafe of the south is the diner. Same lingering over endless cups of coffee while bullshitting, just with more scrambled eggs and biscuits. And air conditioning.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 7, 2021 21:35
|
|
|
D34THROW posted:So I realized something interesting. A lot of religious art depicts Jesus with long, flowing hair. It seems to me like the Bible was ignored when creating these. Paul's epistles were usually written to specific churches to deal with specific problems they were dealing with. They generally weren't intended to be universal theological encyclopedias. So be cautious in taking stuff at face value. Find out what the specific issue was and what Paul's larger point was in making the comments he did. In this case, Paul was citing what was the common custom in Greek Corinth (i.e. men having short hair) and what it symbolized in that community. Jesus was a Jew from Judea, where they had different customs and meanings to actions. Beyond that, artists have their own reasons for doing things.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 13, 2021 17:11
|
|
|
White Coke posted:I agree, as good as the idea of questioning received wisdom is, it does seem to very quickly devolve into "You should question your traditions, laws, and cultural values because they aren't my (objectively correct) values". Sometimes people undergo deep study and introspection and find that they do legitimately believe all they things they did. I think in terms of us all being blind men describing an elephant. What we experience ourselves is absolutely valid and true for us, but maybe completely different from what is valid and true for someone else. Wisdom comes from trying to integrate our disparate experiences into a larger idea, which is greater and more complicated than what either of us could experience individually.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 18, 2021 22:12
|
|
|
Nth Doctor posted:I'm still more convinced I did the right thing than that I did the wrong thing, but I also think that isn't a universal opinion. You brought comfort and compassion to a needy person. You done good. I'm sure God can transcode your actions to the appropriate Catholic ones.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 19, 2021 04:20
|
|
|
Notahippie posted:My thinking is that it's easy to see the (apocryphal) story of Oran as a rejection of the doctrine of heaven and hell, which then puts it directly in opposition of the scriptures. But the example you gave is one where Jesus specifically pointed out that the petitioner was applying a limited view of the afterlife, based on his experiences of life on earth, and that such things were an inappropriate model for the infinite. The doctrine of resurrection of the body strongly implies a continuity of personal experience in a way that makes it easy to carry forward our lived experience as the basis of what the afterlife must be like, but Jesus is warning against taking that too far. With that view, Oran's reported words could be read less as a rejection of the concepts of heaven and hell and more a rejection of people's expectations for what either is like. My take on it is that our personalities are constrained by being stuck in a body. The chemical imbalances in our brains limit how much our true selves can be expressed in this life. Dying liberates our personalities from those constraints and allows us to be and experience our true selves. Thus I think we will be recognizable to each other - fundamentally like how we are now, but wonderfully changed. Sort of like how if you see someone's baby picture, there is a sudden flash where you recognize them as the adult you know now. Similarly, in Heaven we will know each other based on the baby pictures of each other that we encountered in life.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 19, 2021 19:23
|
|
|
Gaius Marius posted:I was listening to Dave Chang's podcast, and he was talking about synthetic meat and brought up an interesting conundrum that's we're going to have to deal with. I guess it gets to the fundamental reasons as to why your religion forbids pork (or meat). If it's based on the meat itself, then a substitute would seem to be forbidden, too. If it's based on the animal it came from and the process that ended with it sitting on a plate, then the substitute would be fine. Theological rules-lawyering is as old as religion itself.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 22, 2021 04:47
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ Apr 24, 2024 21:11 |
|
|
Stolen from the PYF: Funny Pictures thread:biracial bear for uncut posted:This kid knows what's up.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 3, 2021 15:05
|
|