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OldMemes
Sep 5, 2011

I have to go now. My planet needs me.


CommonShore posted:

They should just recast Captain Jack and not even acknowledge with so much as a remark on the new face. Just like "Oh hey Captain Jack" and the new
who are your nominations for the Second Captian Jack?

Lisa Bowerman in a wig and no-one acknowledges the gender swap in any way, shape or form.

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CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man




OldMemes posted:

Lisa Bowerman in a wig and no-one acknowledges the gender swap in any way, shape or form.

I love it it is decided. NEXT PROBLEM

CobiWann
Oct 21, 2009

Have fun!


CommonShore posted:

They should just recast Captain Jack and not even acknowledge with so much as a remark on the new face. Just like "Oh hey Captain Jack" and the new actor enters and just starts chewing the scenery.

who are your nominations for the Second Captian Jack?

JD Drake. He can pull it off.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


CobiWann posted:

gently caress it. Maybe we should just give the Earth over to the Silurians/Zygons/Sontarans/Blue Kangs.

gently caress it, just put Eccleston in charge. JD Drake can hang out on his couch though.

The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."


CommonShore posted:

who are your nominations for the Second Captian Jack?

Do you think the BBC could get Cheyenne Jackson?

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008


CommonShore posted:

They should just recast Captain Jack and not even acknowledge with so much as a remark on the new face. Just like "Oh hey Captain Jack" and the new actor enters and just starts chewing the scenery.

who are your nominations for the Second Captian Jack?

Patton Oswalt is already playing one giant head, right?

Davros1
Jul 19, 2007

You've got to admit, you are kind of implausible





https://twitter.com/bigfinish/status/1388163484635045893?s=20

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


gently caress yes, it should be no surprise but it really does feel like he's slipped straight back into character.

Khanstant
Apr 5, 2007



Flight Bisque posted:

Meanwhile, "Johnny B getting his cock out" was at least known well enough to be joked about in the video they made for RTD's departure.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giaMRyn47Xg

edit: at the 2 minute mark, I'm phone posting and can't figure out the drat timestamp.

If they're turning it into a running joke, they're basically excusing it? Accepting it? Seems like the sort of thing you nip in the balls, immediately, or else it becomes part of the workplace culture. I've worked at places that had "sexual harassment Saturdays" as a "joke," the longer that poo poo goes on the harder it is to try and fix it later when someone obviously takes issue.

It takes more than one horny creep showing the ol' chewed uphotdog to make a workplace where a horny creep can do it enough to make a running joke of it.


CobiWann posted:

JD Drake. He can pull it off.

Slap the face of Bo on an actor in a greenman suit or just get Tom Cruise.

Zaroff
Nov 10, 2009

Nothing in the world can stop me now!

Given the recent unearthing of John Barrowman's history, I wonder how Fraser Hines feels about the pranks he, along with Troughton, pulled on Wendy Padbury and Deborah Watling? Two men (who are clearly the established stars of the show) messing around with their female coworker's clothing while they sleep so that they can embarrass themselves is probably not a good look in 2021, especially since it's a story that he's told with great amusement for decades.

Khanstant
Apr 5, 2007



If you're a dude in media from The Past, I assume you're a sex criminal just waiting for victims to come forward finally. It kind of seems like for a lot of maybe just every dude in the world was some degree of sex pest by default? What year did they invent consent or discover women were sentient beings and I hope that year is soon because it's gotten real hard to find anything to watch not chock full o trashmen.

Rhyno
Mar 22, 2003

how few people do you
need before you can
change the world?


I'll just sit over here and prepare myself for Matt Smith and Peter Capaldi to be outed as murderous cannibals.

OldMemes
Sep 5, 2011

I have to go now. My planet needs me.


Judging from what I've read recently, it seems that Tom Baker was in a very dark place mentally for a lot of his early career until Doctor Who, and he only really learned to really like himself after his marriage to Lalla Ward ended, towards the end of the 80s. Seemed like the role really helped him a lot mentally.

OldMemes fucked around with this message at 19:44 on May 1, 2021

TinTower
Apr 21, 2010

You don't have to 8e a good person to 8e a hero.


There's also the "BARROWMAN! " jokes from the Doctor Who special of Buzzcocks which also didn't age well at all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivOeugFS3K8

Homora Gaykemi
Apr 30, 2020
Probation
Can't post for 29 minutes!


The_Doctor posted:

I think Barrowman is going to go down as well.

https://twitter.com/The66Ramblers/status/1140999393274814464

Flight Bisque
Feb 23, 2008

There is, surprisingly, always hope.

Doctor Who vs the Sex Pests is apparently the actual arc of season one.

OldMemes
Sep 5, 2011

I have to go now. My planet needs me.


Thank goodness the producers turned down Patrick Troughton's suggestion that he wanted to play the Second Doctor in blackface and a turban (!). It would have taken the fun out of the character entirely.

Edward Mass
Sep 14, 2011

fuck the molice


OldMemes posted:

Thank goodness the producers turned down Patrick Troughton's suggestion that he wanted to play the Second Doctor in blackface and a turban (!). It would have taken the fun out of the character entirely.

The Enemy of the World, but it's the Doctor matching wits with Justin Trudeau.

Payndz
Sep 22, 2006

I'm Peter Graves, and I was wondering if you could direct me to the natatorium, as I'm attending a Scuderia Ferrari team-building exercise. Thank you. I'm Peter Graves.


OldMemes posted:

Thank goodness the producers turned down Patrick Troughton's suggestion that he wanted to play the Second Doctor in blackface and a turban (!). It would have taken the fun out of the character entirely.
Sometimes, the lead actor totally ignoring what's on the page and creating their own character works perfectly: eg, Jason King. (Original plan: tweedy old Oxford don called Roger Cullingford.)

In this case, though, the producers were 110% right to go "Nope, are you out of your mind?"

Rochallor
Apr 22, 2010



Christ. It's no wonder that Eccleston didn't want to stick around if this is the sort of environment the show is promoting. The actor who played Jackie looks so god drat uncomfortable.

Going back to an earlier discussion, this REALLY reflects badly on RTD.

Astroman
Apr 8, 2001




OldMemes posted:

Thank goodness the producers turned down Patrick Troughton's suggestion that he wanted to play the Second Doctor in blackface and a turban (!). It would have taken the fun out of the character entirely.

It would have resulted in that entire era being unavailable to watch outside of some 1990s VHS copies and the erasure of his Doctor from official lists and promotional materials. Probably would have done the same for the entire Hartnell era by association; the show would effectively be considered to start with the color era and Pertwee. No Big Finish and no convention appearances for any of those actors either. The multi Doctor specials would no longer be aired or available to view.

Sydney Bottocks
Oct 15, 2004

Eh.



Rochallor posted:

Christ. It's no wonder that Eccleston didn't want to stick around if this is the sort of environment the show is promoting. The actor who played Jackie looks so god drat uncomfortable.

Going back to an earlier discussion, this REALLY reflects badly on RTD.

I know RTD's currently riding a wave of critical acclaim and good press because of "It's a Sin" and all, but people really need to be asking him "what did you know about this, and when did you know about it" in regards to this kind of poo poo happening while he was running the show.

DoggesAndCattes
Aug 2, 2007



On my 2nd watch of Doctor Who 2005 and onward. First time I watched the series, I binge watched from the 9th Doctor to the start of the 12th Doctor. I think that was 2014 when Peter Capaldi took over.

Anyways, I hate binge watching TV shows now because I tend to get distracted. I try to keep it at 1 episode at a time. I pick up a lot more and enjoy TV shows much more. I just finished the last episode of the 10th Doctor, and I'm so sad. What an incredibly sad moment to see David Tennant disappear only to have my emotions flipped upside down with Matt Smith making his appearance onscreen.

OldMemes
Sep 5, 2011

I have to go now. My planet needs me.


I've been listening to some audios featuring characters I'm not that familiar with recently: The Dark Flame was fun (though everyone saying 'The Dark Flame' and 'the skull' over and over again soon lapses into almost self parody). I can see why Summerfield is so popular, Lisa Bowerman was great in it.

Just listened to The Marian Conspiracy too - there must have been a lot riding on this back in the day, with Evelyn being the first original Big Finish companion, but Baker and Maggie Stables were just wonderful working together, and Evelyn clicks into place almost effortlessly. I'm not big on purely historical stories, but I enjoyed it a fair bit.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


DoggesAndCattes posted:

On my 2nd watch of Doctor Who 2005 and onward. First time I watched the series, I binge watched from the 9th Doctor to the start of the 12th Doctor. I think that was 2014 when Peter Capaldi took over.

Anyways, I hate binge watching TV shows now because I tend to get distracted. I try to keep it at 1 episode at a time. I pick up a lot more and enjoy TV shows much more. I just finished the last episode of the 10th Doctor, and I'm so sad. What an incredibly sad moment to see David Tennant disappear only to have my emotions flipped upside down with Matt Smith making his appearance onscreen.

It really is amazing how I went from sad to see Tennant go to utterly enamored with Smith IMMEDIATELY. He's just having such an amazing time and so happy to be alive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVEY5AL5zzk

Welp, time to rewatch all of season 5 again!

Dongicus
Jun 11, 2015



is chris chibnal in prison yet

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

A bracing glass of carrot juice!


Dongicus posted:

is chris chibnal John Barrowman in prison yet

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


I wonder if Chibnal is regretting his last episode being Barrowman escaping a prison he deliberately committed many crimes to get into.

DoctorWhat
Nov 18, 2011

A little privacy, please?


Sydney Bottocks posted:

I know RTD's currently riding a wave of critical acclaim and good press because of "It's a Sin" and all, but people really need to be asking him "what did you know about this, and when did you know about it" in regards to this kind of poo poo happening while he was running the show.

Well in The Writer's Tale he talks openly about casting Russel Tovey in Voyage of the Damned for thirst reasons so

uh

hmm

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

A bracing glass of carrot juice!


"I'm casting a hot person because I like to look at them" is beyond mild when listing the crimes of TV casting.

Open Source Idiom
Jan 4, 2013


Moffat hosed his way around the BBC studios "like a mechanical digger", his words. He cast Karen Gillen over another, apparently more qualified, actor, because she wasn't "wee" and "dumpy".

I mean, you've got to ask yourself, at what point is it a line worth drawing?

DoctorWhat
Nov 18, 2011

A little privacy, please?


MrL_JaKiri posted:

"I'm casting a hot person because I like to look at them" is beyond mild when listing the crimes of TV casting.

It's not a searing indictment but it came to mind, is all. It could reflect RTD's attitudes about a professional environment.

CobiWann
Oct 21, 2009

Have fun!


In an effort to brighten things up a bit, may the Fourth be with you!

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008


Open Source Idiom posted:

Moffat hosed his way around the BBC studios "like a mechanical digger", his words. He cast Karen Gillen over another, apparently more qualified, actor, because she wasn't "wee" and "dumpy".

I mean, you've got to ask yourself, at what point is it a line worth drawing?

You’re wrong about the second quote:
“I thought, ‘Well, she’s really good. It’s just a shame she’s so wee and dumpy.’ … When she was about to come through to the auditions I nipped out for a minute and I saw Karen walking on the corridor towards me and I realised she was 5’11, slim and gorgeous, and I thought, ‘Oh, oh, that’ll probably work.’”

He thought Gillen was wee and dumpy, he didn’t choose her over a better actor because the other actor was wee and dumpy.

Moffat’s said enough stupid and sexist things to condemn him without distorting or twisting his words.

How do we parse the show itself, or its management? I don’t think Hinchcliffe is on record as having said horribly misogynist things, but what about Dicks or Holmes? Do we forgive Troughton and Hines but not Barrowman because of the expectations of the era? Can we ignore the frequent and obvious racism of the program that runs from the early years straight into the present?

And to what extent should the scrutiny be directed back at the fandom? It’s possible to condemn a creator while appreciating that their work supports what they themselves do not. And we have a bad tendency to credit the male exec producers and forget the women: everyone discusses the Davies years and not the Gardiner years, and nobody gives any credit that I’ve ever seen for Series Five to exec producer Beth Willis, although I’ll be delighted to be proven wrong on that.

howe_sam
Mar 7, 2013

Creepy little garbage eaters



e: ^^^ lol, I guess I was tilting at windmills a little, but my central point about how casting Gillen changed up the visual dynamic of the show stands.

Open Source Idiom posted:

Moffat hosed his way around the BBC studios "like a mechanical digger", his words. He cast Karen Gillen over another, apparently more qualified, actor, because she wasn't "wee" and "dumpy".

I mean, you've got to ask yourself, at what point is it a line worth drawing?

I will say, I think casting someone roughly Matt Smith's height was an interesting change in dynamic -- Ecclestone and Tennant were both quite a bit taller than their companions. So much of TV is in the visuals that you have to take stuff like that into account, but it also is a fine line. Basically for me, not casting someone because you think they're too "wee" for the character is fine, but too "dumpy" isn't.

Also, Gilles was great as Amy so a lovely process worked out, which is more a fortunate coincidence for us the viewers than any endorsement of said lovely process.

howe_sam fucked around with this message at 14:05 on May 4, 2021

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

A bracing glass of carrot juice!


Nobody talks about Matt Strevens either, I'm not really surprised the showrunner gets the most attention in the current model.

Open Source Idiom
Jan 4, 2013


Narsham posted:

Moffat’s said enough stupid and sexist things to condemn him without distorting or twisting his words.

Wasn't intentional. I distinctly remember the original quote referring to two separate women, but whatever, I'm tired and I can't find any evidence one way or the other. If you, or anyone else, can find the original interview I'd be grateful.

thrawn527
Mar 27, 2004

Thrawn/Pellaeon
Studying the art of terrorists
To keep you safe

Narsham posted:

You’re wrong about the second quote:
“I thought, ‘Well, she’s really good. It’s just a shame she’s so wee and dumpy.’ … When she was about to come through to the auditions I nipped out for a minute and I saw Karen walking on the corridor towards me and I realised she was 5’11, slim and gorgeous, and I thought, ‘Oh, oh, that’ll probably work.’”

He thought Gillen was wee and dumpy, he didn’t choose her over a better actor because the other actor was wee and dumpy.

Moffat’s said enough stupid and sexist things to condemn him without distorting or twisting his words.

How do we parse the show itself, or its management? I don’t think Hinchcliffe is on record as having said horribly misogynist things, but what about Dicks or Holmes? Do we forgive Troughton and Hines but not Barrowman because of the expectations of the era? Can we ignore the frequent and obvious racism of the program that runs from the early years straight into the present?

And to what extent should the scrutiny be directed back at the fandom? It’s possible to condemn a creator while appreciating that their work supports what they themselves do not. And we have a bad tendency to credit the male exec producers and forget the women: everyone discusses the Davies years and not the Gardiner years, and nobody gives any credit that I’ve ever seen for Series Five to exec producer Beth Willis, although I’ll be delighted to be proven wrong on that.

Ehhhh, this is a weird line in the sand to draw, I think. Barrowman started on the show in 2005, which is the year I graduated college and got my first "real job". If, on that job, I whipped my dick out and started waiving it around at people, I fully expect I would have been fired. And rightfully so. This isn't some crazy bygone era where that sort of thing was totally fine, like the racist/sexist 60's. It wasn't that long ago, and that is a crazy thing to do and for upper management to apparently be fine with.

edit: I just got that you were saying Troughton and Hines had expectations of the era, but Barrowman did not. My mistake. Still though, I think it's apples and oranges.

Sydney Bottocks
Oct 15, 2004

Eh.



Narsham posted:

And we have a bad tendency to credit the male exec producers and forget the women: everyone discusses the Davies years and not the Gardiner years, and nobody gives any credit that I’ve ever seen for Series Five to exec producer Beth Willis, although I’ll be delighted to be proven wrong on that.

That's because (as Jakiri pointed out), that's not how the running of the show works anymore. The showrunner model is basically the same principle as the auteur theory of filmmaking: that there is one singular creative vision behind the show/film and they have the final say. Julie Gardner may have had some input on certain things, but at the end of the day she was working for RTD and he was the one that made the final decisions regarding the show, both on and off screen. Gardner wrangled a bunch of things behind the scenes, for which she most certainly deserves a ton of credit, but she wasn't writing and rewriting scripts or coming up with overarching storylines or deciding the format the series should take. It's akin to saying the foreman of the construction crew should get equal credit for the design of the building that the architect came up with.

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MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

A bracing glass of carrot juice!


Obviously anyone who underestimates Delia Derbyshire or Verity Lambert needs a seeing to, though

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