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By popular demand
Jul 17, 2007

IT *BZZT* WASP ME--
IT WASP ME ALL *BZZT* ALONG!




Come back Poochie! We never got to thank you for not descriptively getting it on with anyone and everyone for miles around.

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Leraika
Jun 14, 2015

slime time



mmm yes that's some actual sexual assault I'm seeing this chapter

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009



So, with this LP focusing on mods, I thought I'd show off some of the behind the scenes details about how mods work and what they look like in code (Vichan, feel free to tell me if this isn't welcome). Take Valerie, for example, what does that initial dialogue box of hers actually look like from a modder's end?

IF ~NumTimesTalkedTo(0) AND T2ValMinesClear(0)~ T2ValIntro
SAY ~Another group of adventurers coming to investigate the mines, I hope? I'm glad someone has worked up the nerve to do something.~
++ ~What do you know of the troubles in the mines?~ + T2ValTrouble
++ ~You have an Amnish accent. Are you part of the garrison force?~ + T2ValGarrison
++ ~Why isn't the garrison doing anything?~ + T2ValDoing
++ ~You wear a mage's robes. Do you have any magic items for sale?~ + T2ValSale
++ ~Sorry, but I have to go.~ + T2ValBye
END

We'll start with the two conditionals there. Most Infinity Engine dialogue involves if/then scripting to determine what dialogue fires. In this case, the NumTimesTalkedTo(0) conditional means that this dialogue only fires if you've never talked to her before. T2ValMinesClear(0) is a variable I added specifically for the Valerie mod to track whether or not you've cleared the Nashkel mines. So with the AND command in the IF script, this dialogue only fires if you've never talked to Valerie before and you haven't cleared the mines.

T2ValIntro is the name of this script block.

SAY is the script command to have the NPC talk, and the ~ marks are the bounds of the dialogue string.

The ++ lines are a scripting shortcut for what would fully be IF ~~ THEN REPLY. 'IF ~~' means there are no conditions for whatever comes next, and THEN REPLY means that this is one of the PC's dialogue options. After the dialogue string, the + [name] commands the dialogue to go to the next script block. Some mods just use numbers for script blocks like this, including Sandrah, but I prefer a more descriptive term - it helps me keep the dialogue organized.

END marks the end of this script block.


But, for example, what if you cleared the mines without ever talking to Valerie, and only talked to her afterwards?

IF ~NumTimesTalkedTo(0) AND T2ValMinesClear(1)~ T2ValCIntro
SAY ~So you're the one responsible for clearing out the mines? Well done. The Cowled Wizards extend their thanks.~
++ ~Cowled Wizards? What are they?~ + T2ValCCowled
++ ~You have an Amnish accent. Are you part of the garrison force?~ + T2ValCGarrison
++ ~Why hasn't the garrison been doing anything?~ + T2ValCDoing
++ ~You wear a mage's robes. Do you have any magic items for sale?~ + T2ValCSale
++ ~Sorry, but I have to go.~ + T2ValBye
END

Mostly the same, but a different line from Valerie reflecting that you've already cleared out the mines - and gives you a new dialogue option to ask her about the Cowled Wizards now that she's mentioned them, and the names of the other script blocks are different because they lead to new dialogue all reflecting this change.


The Enhanced Editions added a few new shortcuts to make coding a little bit easier, but this kind of stuff right here is the fundamental structure of how dialogue in this game is written and coded.

Vichan
Oct 1, 2014

I'LL PUNISH YOU ACCORDING TO YOUR CRIME

Cythereal posted:

(Vichan, feel free to tell me if this isn't welcome)

It's more than welcome! These kinds of insights into IE modding are things I could never even begin to cover. Feel free to chime in as often as you like! :)

Vichan
Oct 1, 2014

I'LL PUNISH YOU ACCORDING TO YOUR CRIME

Chapter X - I'm Imoen, the counsellor Of Love.



BG's dream sequences are great, aren't they?



Imoen's words are comforting, but it's not enough...



Yeah, that's the stuff.

I still feel depressed, let's go to the Nashkel carnival!



Don't think for a second I'll be nice to you just because Sandrah is, you creep.



Like a kid in a candy store.



Bah, Sandrah's right. This is no time for merriment, someone is in need of rescue!



He's definitely not going to regret that decision.





Garrick's little sidequest, courtesy of BG1NPC. We have to make room for Branwen, though...



Sorry, Kivan. This is for your own good. We'll get back to him in due time.



This was exactly what I expected would happen and yet I'm still enraged.

(Jaheira does almost the exact same thing with BG1NPC installed)



Before we're able to free Branwen we get approached by another NPC. I don't think she has content with Sandrah and one obnoxious bard is more than enough.



One cleric is never enough, however. Welcome to the group, Branwen!



Don't try and hog the glory, Sandrah. :argh:

We equip Branwen with the warhammer we got from Basillus as well as the Ankheg armor and make our way to Ulcaster school. The carnival can wait.



Don't sell yourself short, Sandrah. You are the poster child of subtlety.



Will. You. Shut. Up.



This banter literally fired the second the last one ended. gently caress my life.



Everyone likes Sandrah more than me. :negative:



Thanks, Branwen. I needed that.

Finally we arrive to the vicinity of the school.



Oh boy, these guys look tough.



The resulting fight was easier than I thought. The zombies died almost instantly but Myr'Cutio took some time because he had a LOT of HP, he didn't manage to get a hit in though so it's all good.



That's some nice armor.



And stylish too, I've got to admit.



Nice one, Branwen. I have the feeling we're going to get along swimmingly.



It's nice to see everyone getting along. :)



I've just about had it, maybe it's time to pay that red wizard a visit.

Vichan fucked around with this message at 01:34 on Nov 7, 2021

Midnight Voyager
Jul 2, 2008

Hence, nothing remains except our regrets.



Lipstick Apathy

If she fucks Edwina, I'm getting out the knives.

Rosemont
Nov 4, 2009


I do rather like Jen'lig so far. She's an addition that hasn't worn out her welcome for me AND doesn't annoy the crap out of me.

TheGreatEvilKing
Mar 28, 2016







Sandrah: I love the PC
Also Sandrah: I am in love with and will loudly bang this bard in front of him.

Imoen didn't deserve this.

Fighting Trousers
May 17, 2011

Does this excite you, girl?


Somehow, the thing that irritates me the most is how she's even got Kivan (Mr. "VENGANCE FOR MY DEAD WIFE") mooning over her. It's gross.

By popular demand
Jul 17, 2007

IT *BZZT* WASP ME--
IT WASP ME ALL *BZZT* ALONG!




As I stated I don't even like the BG games and I'm considering installing this just to keep coming back to Sandrah and telling her NO when she asks to join, repeatedly.

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009



Fighting Trousers posted:

Somehow, the thing that irritates me the most is how she's even got Kivan (Mr. "VENGANCE FOR MY DEAD WIFE") mooning over her. It's gross.

So for reference, and still using Valerie as an example, here's what a banter looks like in this game's code.

CHAIN
IF
~CombatCounter(0)
InParty("T2Val")
InParty("kivan")
See("T2Val")
!See ([ENEMY])
!StateCheck("kivan",CD_STATE_NOTVALID)
!StateCheck("T2Val",CD_STATE_NOTVALID)
Global("T2ValKiTalk1","GLOBAL",0)~
THEN BT2VAL T2ValKiTalk1
~Kivan, I'm sorry about your Deheriana. If there's anything I can do to help...~ DO ~SetGlobal("T2ValKiTalk1","GLOBAL",1)~
== %KIVAN_BANTER% ~You can help by doing your job in battle and remaining silent outside of it.~
== BT2Val ~Sorry. I only wanted to help.~
== %KIVAN_BANTER% ~I do not want or need your help, sorceress. Leave me be.~
END

The IF/THEN conditionals are quite a bit more involved! This is the standard set of conditionals used by most modders for banters.

"CombatCounter(0)" means that the party has to be out of combat.

InParty("T2Val") means that Valerie has to be in the party - every mod NPC has their own unique ID (or should...)

InParty("kivan") means Kivan has to be in the party, most of the Bioware cast's IDs are just their names.

See("T2Val") means that Valerie has to be in visual range of the PC - and I made a mistake with this banter's coding by not including "See("kivan")" because this could fire if Kivan is on another map!

And yes, the parenthesis and quotation marks are important in the coding.

!StateCheck("kivan",CD_STATE_NOTVALID) is another scripting shortcut for checking that Kivan isn't afflicted by a host of conditions (like death) that would make a banter... not make much sense. Valerie gets the same check.

Global("T2ValKiTalk1","GLOBAL",0) checks that this banter hasn't fired before. You can see at the end of Valerie's first dialogue string that there's scripting to set the T2ValKiTalk1 global variable to 1, thereby making this banter impossible to fire again because it will fail this condition of the IF/THEN script when the game determines that it's time for a banter.

After the conclusion of the IF/THEN conditionals, BT2Val means it calls on Valerie to speak the first line, and then references the rest from there. The == code just means 'no conditionals, play the dialogue line for the relevant character' and '%KIVAN_BANTER%' is more scripting shortcuts to save time coding this.


Sandrah is not coded like this. She has a different system for scripting and coding her banters, one which I suspect makes it much easier to write and script enormous amounts of dialogue versus the traditional system. That would make a lot of sense for the scope of Sandrah's dialogue. On the other hand, Sandrah's coding system makes it very difficult to tell exactly where any given dialogue begins or ends, whereas more normal mods like Valerie show each banter and interaction very discretely and separately - for me, at least, it makes them much easier to write, organize, and refer to.

I'm also wondering if this is part of why Sandrah spams her interactions so much and why Vichan's mentioned that normal banter commands don't seem to impact Sandrah. I'm no modding wiz-kid, but I suspect that Sandrah's dialogue genuinely isn't scripted as banters and whatnot like normal mods do. Normal modding procedure basically copies how the Bioware characters work in the base game, just with some tweaking here and there. Sandrah, I suspect, is doing her own thing when it comes to scripting.

If she is, I've said it before and I'll say it again: I'm genuinely impressed with the technical skill, ability, and hard work that went into Sandrah! Roxanne is really talented at this side of things! Just a shame that all that talent is going into... this.

Zulily Zoetrope
Jun 1, 2011






Muldoon

I really enjoy that the first Sandrah/Kivan banter started out as "you're a widower who is striving to put your ghosts to rest, and I respect that" only for the immediate segue into "anyways you and me are gonna bone and it's cool because i'm both hotter and cooler than your ex."

Gutrot
Dec 17, 2004

you're*

Rosemont posted:

On another note, anybody have NPC mods that they'd recommend? I've played the BG games a lot but never used a single mod for them.
I really enjoyed Cythereal's Valerie mod when putting together a crew of Amnian party members; enough to convert a suitable Neverwinter Nights soundset for use with it. I'd definitely be amongst the first in line to download a Baldur's Gate 2 continuation. Isra, who interacts with Valerie, and Drake (who we've already seen) along with Ajantis provided the rest of the Amnian contingent, with Aura on trap patrol.

This Let's Play continues to be a hilarious cautionary exemplar of what not to do when writing NPCs. Thank you for your service, Vichan, and to Cythereal for providing parallel insight into the inner workings of both the mods that made this possible, and the people who made them.

vilkacis
Feb 16, 2011



tithin posted:

It's incredible just how much work's gone into this mod

and it's astounding just how awful it is.

:agreed:

I'm trying to tell myself it's understandable that someone who's spent the time to master all the technical fiddling that goes into something like this (and it is a lot of fiddling!) hasn't had time to master writing stories and characters as well.

Unfortunately, that does not improve the quality of the story or character :j:

quote:

god wasn't there that one tob mod that made irenicus a *romanceable party member* ?

There is at least one that lets you recruit him, but i don't think it's a romance.

TheGreatEvilKing posted:

Imoen didn't deserve this.

That's basically bgii.exe

(but yes, also modding.txt)

Xerophyte
Mar 17, 2008

This space intentionally left blank


quote:



Man, that may be the single worst piece of dialogue I've ever had the misfortune of reading. Good ol' Eye of Argon at least had the virtue of some fantastic malapropisms, and the excuse of being written by a 15-year-old.

I can only agree that it's amazing that someone with the grit and technical know-how to make this giant-rear end mod would also read that banter and think to themselves "yes, this is the flowing prose and naturalistic dialogue that will bring my magnum opus to life".

Nissin Cup Nudist
Sep 3, 2011

Sleep with one eye open

We're off to Gritty Gritty land






Are there any Evil-aligned companion mods that are competent, and not just murderhobos?

jfenserty
Jul 16, 2008


Since we're mentioning them, I thought Adrian (for BG2) was a good evil companion mod. I think there's a romance but my character didn't pursue that and he still had reasonable dialogue. Also from the same modder as Isra I believe, which someone else mentioned already.

Brainamp
Sep 4, 2011

More Zen than Zenyatta




I've gotten so used to Sandrah ending 99% of conversations with a kiss or sex that I legitimately expected this to end in some horrible poo poo

Midnight Voyager
Jul 2, 2008

Hence, nothing remains except our regrets.



Lipstick Apathy

Brainamp posted:

I've gotten so used to Sandrah ending 99% of conversations with a kiss or sex that I legitimately expected this to end in some horrible poo poo

Oh hey, the thread talking about that weirdo new New Vegas mod gave me the perfect response to this:

Vichan
Oct 1, 2014

I'LL PUNISH YOU ACCORDING TO YOUR CRIME

Chapter XI - What a tease...what a fruit to be plucked...aah...

We begin this chapter with a conversation with Branwen.



Courtesy of BG1NPC, you can tell because Sandrah's not butting in and Branwen doesn't talk about her.



So romantic. :swoon:



We leave Garrick at the carnival, I'm sure he'll be able to amuse himself without us.



By popular demand we invite Edwin to the group, don't get used to him though. Back to Ulcaster!



Branwen is great, isn't she? :allears:



Sandrah immediately asserts her dominance as soon as we arrive in Ulcaster.



Jen'lig is determined not to wear out her welcome.

After a 'whatever' fight with some skeletons something interesting happens.



Should've been nice to Sandrah, I guess.



Sandrah might not like it but killing off Edwin so soon would be a waste.



Basically cursed, huh? We're going to have to find a way to cure that. For now we'll follow Sandrah's sage advice.



Little does Edwin know that he's lucky to escape the beast's hunger. (Although in his infinite wisdom this could also be 4D chess on his part)



Branwen sure likes to talk.



We run into this fine gentleman while exploring the outskirts of the school and dispatch him without much effort. This triggers a conversation with Jen'lig.



It seems her progress is triggered by fighting certain battles. Neat.



Looks like we're going to start our first dungeon crawl! (Spoilers: I managed to clear the entire thing in one go with the help of Jen'lig's werebane, most characters were level 5 by the end of it)

While resting in the dungeon we share another moment with Sandrah.



'Long and intense' is also how I'd describe this LP.



This is how banters should be written. :colbert:



We find this strange diary on a corpse. Sandrah couldn't identify it right away so we have to rest outside so Imoen can cast identify it. (Not sure why there are so many restrictions when the drat thing is unusable anyway)



Branwen is one of BG1NPC's romance options.



A Rashemen scout, huh? What could this mean?



An important piece of the puzzle not only to our story but Sandrah's as well.



Edwin's a bad influence, I shudder to think what would happen if Sandrah wasn't here.

Speaking of Sandrah, she's acquired a new ability.



Let's cast it and see what it d-



Whoops.



Bless your heart, Jen'lig.

That's pretty much all she wrote for Ulcaster. I don't think I've ever tackled it before the Nashkel mines before. Then again this isn't your ordinary playthrough.





Lore dumps are the keys that unlock my heart. :allears:



And with that our first dungeon crawl is officially over. Next we'll head to Beregost for some R&R.

Vichan fucked around with this message at 01:35 on Nov 7, 2021

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009



Drawing explicit comparisons between Sandrah and Midnight is setting off alarm bells in my brain. It's hard to notice because so many are already wailing, but this is a new one.

Be on the lookout for comparisons between the PC and Kelemvor.

Cythereal fucked around with this message at 13:28 on Jan 24, 2021

By popular demand
Jul 17, 2007

IT *BZZT* WASP ME--
IT WASP ME ALL *BZZT* ALONG!




"Boil in your wraith"?

Anyway this is somehow worse than all the fantasy novels I read as a kid.
which if the internet taught me anything means I was quite sheltered.

cheesetriangles
Jan 5, 2011







I like how Jen'lig has some actually enjoyable writing not amazing but serviceable and it stands out in such contrast.

Vichan
Oct 1, 2014

I'LL PUNISH YOU ACCORDING TO YOUR CRIME

Next part should be up soon, it's...quite something and it didn't feel right attaching it to the last one.

Strawberry Pyramid
Dec 12, 2020

by Pragmatica


cheesetriangles posted:

I like how Jen'lig has some actually enjoyable writing not amazing but serviceable and it stands out in such contrast.

Makes the whole "Want Jen'lig? Must have Sandrah! Also, no removing either ever or else you lose Jen'lig forever" conditions seem much more cynically manipulative on the part of the mod author.

Comrade Koba
Jul 2, 2007



Itís cool how Sandrah knows how to use that curse ability, Iím pretty sure we wonít ever have to worry about enemy spellcasters at all now! :allears:

Vichan
Oct 1, 2014

I'LL PUNISH YOU ACCORDING TO YOUR CRIME

Chapter XII - It is Sandrah I kiss, not Elminster's daughter.



While on the road to Beregost I couldn't resist telling Sandrah what I think of her. :swoon:



Sandrah's not your usual cleric, if you must know.

We arrive in Beregost and decide to rest at Feldepost's inn.



Oh my. Better put on some music and dim the lights, things are about to get R-rated.



I did warn you, didn't I?



Hey, I'm pretty sure I've seen this dialogue before!



Edwin, ew!



Christ, there are less thirsty people in Calimshan desert.

While we're cringing at Edwin's attempts to woo Sandrah I am suddenly struck by a revelation.



Wait for it...



Holy poo poo! :aaaaa:



I spoke too soon, I'm a way bigger creep than Edwin. Let's pay the innkeeper and get ou-



That's...a chapter.

The game decides we can't leave quite yet.



After this we fade to black. When we return...



Uhhm...



Wha-



What th-



Wait, that's supposed to be there?



Just after this we fade to black, when we return we are back in Beregost.



Just as our question was answered we are left with new ones. Who is Khalindra? What about Sandrah's half-sister? What the hell was up with that picture? Let's hope we find out soon...

Vichan fucked around with this message at 01:35 on Nov 7, 2021

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009



...I think I know where this is going.

Sandrah's mother is Mystra, isn't it.

Zulily Zoetrope
Jun 1, 2011






Muldoon

...Wait, were we supposed to think otherwise?

E: Also just guessing here, but Iím guessing the PC literally does not get the option to call bullshit on Sandrah cursing Edwin or threaten to boot her if she doesnít fix it.

Zulily Zoetrope fucked around with this message at 15:22 on Jan 24, 2021

cheesetriangles
Jan 5, 2011







Hell yeah poo poo just got real. That loving portrait just floating there oh my god.

Fighting Trousers
May 17, 2011

Does this excite you, girl?


It's pretty impressive how far up its own butt this mod has disappeared, and we're not even a third of the way through the first game yet.

Rosemont
Nov 4, 2009


I had a pretty good chuckle at the lazy inclusion of that Neverwinter Nights portrait. Not even a frame around it, it's just...floating there.

Vichan
Oct 1, 2014

I'LL PUNISH YOU ACCORDING TO YOUR CRIME

Chapter XIII - I can almost smell all the men you have experienced...



Branwen's words are comforting, but little does she know that I'm haunted by another dream...



Picking on Edwin will never cease to be hilarious.



This is Branwen's way of letting us know that we're in a relationship. This means we can now flirt with her through PIDs.



Isn't she the cutest?



Seriously, I think I'm in love. :allears:



She has her own demons it seems.

Speaking of demons, we soon fade to black...



Not this ag-



Elminster also has poor taste in women.



We soon return to the real world. Strangely Sandrah doesn't ask us what's wrong. She has a new PID though.





Well, excuse me...



Not sure why she's still secretive about who her father is.

Seconds after that moment...



Well, thank y-



Much like my headaches since I've started this LP these chats seem to come in clusters.




This painting appeared in my inventory, I'm note sure when this happened. When we identify it...




We're using an alternate portrait for Sandrah, normally she looks just like this.



Branwen's word economy is refreshing.

We finally arrive back in Nashkel.



Edwin can sure dish it out, can't he?



Sandrah's insults are pitiful in comparison.

For some reason Edwin has his BG2 portrait here, and after this conversation it has a new addition.



I'm as puzzled as you are.



I wish I could keep them in the party forever.



As engrossing as this stuff is I think it's time we put Edwin out to pasture.



So am I, Branwen. Let's wrap it up.



But before we leave let's enjoy Edwin's final humiliation, at least for a good while.



Thanks for all the laughs, Edwin! :wave:



We shall soon say goodbye to Branwen as well.

Next time we'll see what that crazy man with the hamster's all about.

Vichan fucked around with this message at 01:35 on Nov 7, 2021

By popular demand
Jul 17, 2007

IT *BZZT* WASP ME--
IT WASP ME ALL *BZZT* ALONG!




Fighting Trousers posted:

It's pretty impressive how far up its own butt this mod has disappeared, and we're not even a third of the way through the first game yet.

:same:

E:OhshittItdoesn'tstoooooop!

Vichan
Oct 1, 2014

I'LL PUNISH YOU ACCORDING TO YOUR CRIME

I have to say I'm pretty impressed by the BG1NPC project. Imoen's banters are a bit iffy and Kivan is a bit too 'I'm 14 and this is deep' but Edwin and Branwen have been an absolute delight.

I hope you guys are okay with me posting so much non-Sandrah content, I know they're not the main draw or anything but I really want to show the contrast between them and the absolute clusterfuck that is Sandrah Saga.

EggsAisle
Dec 17, 2013

I get it! You're, uh...

Oh wow, I thought *you* had put that portrait there as a joke or something.

And no, I don't mind the non-Sandrah interludes. If this LP was just nonstop Sandrah, it'd be kind of hard to take.

jng2058
Jul 17, 2010

We have the tools, we have the talent!







EggsAisle posted:

Oh wow, I thought *you* had put that portrait there as a joke or something.

And no, I don't mind the non-Sandrah interludes. If this LP was just nonstop Sandrah, it'd be kind of hard to take.

Yeah, without something positive in there, it'd be all Sandrah related misery all the time. This way is better.

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009



Vichan posted:

I have to say I'm pretty impressed by the BG1NPC project. Imoen's banters are a bit iffy and Kivan is a bit too 'I'm 14 and this is deep' but Edwin and Branwen have been an absolute delight.

I hope you guys are okay with me posting so much non-Sandrah content, I know they're not the main draw or anything but I really want to show the contrast between them and the absolute clusterfuck that is Sandrah Saga.

:justpost:

Branwen's one of the highlights of the BG1 NPC Project for me, too. Compared to the other romance options in the mod, she's refreshingly straightforward and uncomplicated.

Edwin, I think is helped by him working out much better as a fundamentally comedic character rather than trying to take his background and personality actually seriously. I think some mods go too far with it, and IIRC the Edwin Romance mod for BG2 lets you turn him outright good, but I think he works well enough.


The uneven quality of the BG1 NPC Project's writing, incidentally, stems in large part because it was written by about a dozen different people. Each NPC was the responsibility of one modder, and some modders had more than one NPC. I know the Xan and Ajantis romances were written by the same people who made the relevant NPC-and-romance mods for BG2, but I don't remember the others.

Private Speech
Mar 30, 2011

I HAVE EVEN MORE WORTHLESS BEANIE BABIES IN MY COLLECTION THAN I HAVE WORTHLESS POSTS IN THE BEANIE BABY THREAD YET I STILL HAVE THE TEMERITY TO CRITICIZE OTHERS' COLLECTIONS

IF YOU SEE ME TALKING ABOUT BEANIE BABIES, PLEASE TELL ME TO

EAT. SHIT.


I'm looking forward to Xan what with how predatory this thread thinks Sandrah is already :allears:

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Fighting Trousers
May 17, 2011

Does this excite you, girl?


other people posted:

Xan.

*shudder* I have never understood the appeal he has to a certain subset of BG fangirls.

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