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This is off to about as rough a start as I'd expect. Can't wait to see how eagerly it keeps digging.  Cythereal posted:the notorious-for-different-reasons Chloe mod was written by a man, That is incredibly unsurprising. quote:and the notorious-for-still-other-reasons Saerileth mod was written by a husband and wife team.  That caught me off guard, though.
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Jan 20, 2021 10:31
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I don't care for infinity engine rpgs (Planescape Torment excepted) but I do like train wrecks and this seems well primed to wipe out everything and everyone involved in the plot. Also I just can't get over how the drawing for the 'chainmail' has absolutely nothing to do with the description, couldn't even be bothered to run some Photoshop filters over some stolen art. E: let's never talk about teenage waifu paladin mod again. Please. By popular demand fucked around with this message at 10:38 on Jan 20, 2021 |
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Jan 20, 2021 10:36
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quote:This mod just keeps on giving.
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Jan 20, 2021 10:41
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Chapter III - Scarry. Like bloodhounds. Determined to make up for lost time we hurry towards the Friendly Arm Inn. Just as we enter the Coastway though...  What is it about this old man that's got Sandrah so worried!?  ...Nope, still not getting it. After the old man tells us to head for the Friendly Arm Inn (Gee, thanks) he leaves us. Immediately afterwards, however...  Imoen channeling her inner cavewoman there at the end. Riveting dialogue. Before we move on it might be a good idea to discuss player-initiated dialogue (PIDs for short). The BG1NPC project adds them for every NPC in the game, showcased here by talking to Imoen:  Those surrounded by asterisks are usually followed by random tidbits, Imoen has quite a few of them. I think the other two have answers based on your progress in the game. I'm going to hold off on trying these on Imoen for the moment... ...Because Sandrah Saga also includes PIDs, shown here:  Saying that her hammer's stuck has her casting spiritual hammer, by the way.  More cryptic clues, this is enraging! (The conversation after this is a repeat of 'Where are you from, Sandrah')  I'll be sure to ask Sandrah about certain companions whenever I get the chance. Before heading to the inn I made sure to beat up an ogre carrying girdles, one of which is connected to a quest. The other is cursed and turns you into the opposite sex. You didn't really need me to tell you this, though:  Oh, Sandrah. What would I do without you?  loving finally, I thought we'd never get here. Just as the inn's in sight however...  Don't be silly, Sandrah. You know perfectly well who Gorion i-  What the gently caress is Lancel Lannister doing here?  More clues as to her father's identity. If you guys see an old man with a red hat around be sure to let me know!  The courtyard is home to interesting new characters, let's talk to them after we've met with Khalid and Jaheira though.  Well said, Imoen! Tarnesh is not match for our combined might.  After looting Tarnesh Imoen spots something shiny.  I worry for the Realms... This is from the BG1NPC mod and the first in a series of banters peppered throughout the game. Sandrah mod expands on this by giving Imoen the 'scribe scrolls' ability.  Anyway, enough dilly-dallying. Let's go ins-  I really hope these banters are front-loaded. Once inside we run into Jopi, normally he approaches you to talk about the Iron Crisis, but now...  Interesting. Anyway, we *finally* get to talk to Khalid and Jaheira. After their initial conversation where they recognize us and lament the fate of Gorion the conversation takes a turn.  Keen eyes may spot another clue there.  And with that we are a family of five!  Jaheira's portrait is...a thing. We head for the upper floors to deliver the girdle, pick up an additional quest as well as acquire some really nice pantaloons. I did notice something interesting on the upper floor, though.  Who the gently caress is Jen'lig? I'll look around and see if I ca-  
Vichan fucked around with this message at 10:36 on Nov 7, 2021 |
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Jan 20, 2021 11:42
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So this definitely is going to be several novels worth of  that I can torture Emily Bronte with whenever we get time travel technology.I hope that someone somewhere actually enjoyed this writing, I'm greatly saddened by pointless verbiage.
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Jan 20, 2021 13:22
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So, er, what the hell happened at the end there? Also time to play the mod NPC drinking game of whether the mod tries to assassinate Khalid's character in an effort to make the PC potentially hooking up with Jaheira in BG2 less skeevy. Walrus Pete posted:
Specifically a Japanese couple, as I recall, who made Saerileth to be a 'normal RPG love interest' and said they thought of the PC as only being 16 or 17 himself.  Other fun Saerileth trivia: the lingerie portrait hidden in her files is actually the original, her artwork was stolen from some Korean wuxia MMO. They covered her up for her default portrait.
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Jan 20, 2021 13:40
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Cythereal posted:Also time to play the mod NPC drinking game of whether the mod tries to assassinate Khalid's character in an effort to make the PC potentially hooking up with Jaheira in BG2 less skeevy. Why did/do BG modders seem to almost universally hate Khalid? It's up there with their love of trauma and convoluted backstories. Also, I already can't stand this mod's interpretation of Imoen.
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Jan 20, 2021 13:52
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Cythereal posted:So, er, what the hell happened at the end there? This is an ability from the BG2 expansion and isn't intended to be available until you're at a level appropriate to enter the BG2 expansion content (aka "like level 15 rather than our current level 3"). At this point in vanilla BG1, the only one of these spells your Mage could potentially have learned is Magic Missile. In the normal course of game flow, the rest of these spells wouldn't be in your Mage's spellbook for several full Chapters of BG1. Monster Summoning III in particular is a spell that you'd ordinarily not learn until your Mage is almost at the vanilla BG1 level cap. What I'm saying is that this ability is waaaaaay out of depth to be giving you this early.
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Jan 20, 2021 14:06
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I just had a disturbing thought: does this mod turn Imoen to a manic pixie dreamgirl? I haven't ever played this game for long but I got the impression she's strictly a good dependable buddy.
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Jan 20, 2021 14:10
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For the original game 1 she is never talks after the intro because she was a last minute addition and game 1 npcs don't really talk much anyways. Game 2 where npcs actually talk she gets kidnapped after the opening dungeon and doesn't get rescued until several hours in. So yes kinda, but only after a fairly substantial chunk of not being present.
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Jan 20, 2021 14:18
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Imoen very much exists to allow the player to project their feelings about childhood friends.
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Jan 20, 2021 14:47
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Fighting Trousers posted:Why did/do BG modders seem to almost universally hate Khalid? It's up there with their love of trauma and convoluted backstories. Jaheira was probably a lot of people's first ever RPG romance. Given the overlap of people who write NPC mods and people who are very invested in video game NPCs, it doesn't seem all that weird to me that they'd want to write out her actual husband. It's probably still one of my favorites, given that the industry standard is at least 90% super stilted awkward flirting or talking about how damaged they are and you're the only person who can fix them. I hate Khalid for the far more valid reason that I have had multiple in-game incidents of him getting punched by an ogrillon, panicking, and killing my PC or a party member.
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Jan 20, 2021 14:47
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Cythereal posted:So, er, what the hell happened at the end there? I'm dying to find out for myself, I did read the guide a bit but that part is where I quit playing and thought to myself 'I have to LP this poo poo' quote:Also time to play the mod NPC drinking game of whether the mod tries to assassinate Khalid's character in an effort to make the PC potentially hooking up with Jaheira in BG2 less skeevy. I sorta recall BG1NPC Khalid being somewhat decent overall, I might be wrong though. Khalid and Jaheira will probably leave our party soon but I plan on picking them up from time to time so we can see at least a bit of their content. MagusofStars posted:This is an ability from the BG2 expansion and isn't intended to be available until you're at a level appropriate to enter the BG2 expansion content (aka "like level 15 rather than our current level 3"). At this point in vanilla BG1, the only one of these spells your Mage could potentially have learned is Magic Missile. In the normal course of game flow, the rest of these spells wouldn't be in your Mage's spellbook for several full Chapters of BG1. Monster Summoning III in particular is a spell that you'd ordinarily not learn until your Mage is almost at the vanilla BG1 level cap. Figures, I'm definitely abusing the gently caress out of it. EDIT: I'm currently reading through the Beamdog forum topics on Sandrah and Roxanne's alts are all over the place. The next post is probably going to be a bit shorter so we can focus on whatever the hell is going on in the Friendly Arm Inn so it might be time to dig in to the 'glowing reviews' a bit as well. Vichan fucked around with this message at 14:52 on Jan 20, 2021 |
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Jan 20, 2021 14:48
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Fighting Trousers posted:Why did/do BG modders seem to almost universally hate Khalid? It's up there with their love of trauma and convoluted backstories. My understanding is this: Among the BG1 fanbase, Khalid was massively less popular than Jaheira. His stats aren't great, and he has a hidden lower courage rating in the game's much-obfuscated morale system making him more likely to panic and run away. He's serviceable, but sub-optimal. And he comes paired with one of the game's more popular and powerful characters. Khalid's timid personality also rubbed a lot of male gamers the wrong way, particularly when combined with how confident ("bossy") Jaheira is. This is also why Khalid was killed off in BG2, according to the developers. Informal polls found that the most popular player party in BG1 was the PC, Imoen, Jaheira, Khalid, Minsc, and Dynaheir. Khalid and Dynaheir were much less popular than their paired characters, so when that group was made the PC's canon party, the less popular of the paired NPCs were killed off (this is also why Imoen defaults to being dual-classed to mage in BG2, the developers noticed that doing so was an incredibly popular choice in BG1). Then you have Jaheira's romance in BG2, and how quickly she moves on from Khalid's death rubbed (and still does) a lot of people the wrong way, unless you interpret it to be deliberately psychologically unhealthy from Jaheira, which is just as upsetting to different people in different ways. This is compounded by Jaheira's romance being the longest and most involved in BG2, giving many players the impression that she's meant to be the canon love interest. Thus, there's been something of a reaction to portray Khalid as an abusive shithead to justify how quickly Jaheira moves on and portray that relationship as not at all problematic. Plus the usual fan writing issue of taking a canon character's eccentricities and expanding on them until they dominate the whole character (see Minsc). The utterly lamentable official Baldur's Gate novelization got in on the action, too.
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Jan 20, 2021 14:52
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:Jaheira was probably a lot of people's first ever RPG romance. Given the overlap of people who write NPC mods and people who are very invested in video game NPCs, it doesn't seem all that weird to me that they'd want to write out her actual husband. See, I could never bring myself to play the Jaheira romance because I could not for the life of me see how the PC could see her as anything other than a mother figure. Also, if given the choice, I almost always play female PCs, so... Oh Anomen. Speaking of needing to be fixed. Cythereal posted:Khalid's timid personality also rubbed a lot of male gamers the wrong way, particularly when combined with how confident ("bossy") Jaheira is. Toxic masculinity's a hell of a drug.
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Jan 20, 2021 14:54
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Cythereal posted:Plus the usual fan writing issue of taking a canon character's eccentricities and expanding on them until they dominate the whole character (see Minsc). Heck, even the sequel is guilty of doing this to Minsc. I also remember Jaheira's romance being an absolute nightmare to complete in the original game before patches made the process a bit less painful.
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Jan 20, 2021 15:00
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Thunderclan posted:I think it got abandoned, don't recall seeing it get more then a tiny bit into BG2 anyway...may have to see if I can find it again though, be a good story to read again even if it is unfinished. IIRC it did as most Big World Project playthroughs will do, and bugged out to a degree where it couldn't be continued Vichan posted:Heck, even the sequel is guilty of doing this to Minsc. It had a bug you could easily hit where it wouldn't progress IIRC? Also romances in general were a pain in the rear end and you had to be careful any time you were fighting enemies that could use flesh to stone or similar abilities and reload if the LI character got hit by it, because it counts as removing them from the party which forcibly ends the romance
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Jan 20, 2021 15:04
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Jaheira's romance, even if you don't break it, requires you to rest in outdoors areas at multiple (I think 3?) points to start the next chat. You can basically only progress it in chapters 2 and 6 when you hit those points, and only when you happen to be doing the non-city stronghold related quests or exploring those three post-underdark areas with like two quests across them.
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Jan 20, 2021 15:30
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Vichan posted:Heck, even the sequel is guilty of doing this to Minsc. Even with patches I never got it to work right.
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Jan 20, 2021 15:47
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IIRC her romance was the only one that depended on a quest line separate from the main story, which was probably what made it so easy to break.
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Jan 20, 2021 15:59
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I was never a big fan of rpg romance plot arcs and all this chat only serves to entrench my position further.
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Jan 20, 2021 16:02
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Seyser Koze posted:IIRC her romance was the only one that depended on a quest line separate from the main story, which was probably what made it so easy to break. The quest is folded into her romance timeline, same as Anomen's if you've made the mistake of having a female PC. it's more likely you'll just never see the end of the quest, in which a complete stranger, unrelated to any other storyline in the canon or modded versions of the game, shows up and gives her some quest xp or maybe even a cool necklace for being good at Harpering.
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Jan 20, 2021 16:08
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Cythereal posted:Also time to play the mod NPC drinking game of whether the mod tries to assassinate Khalid's character in an effort to make the PC potentially hooking up with Jaheira in BG2 less skeevy. He's a a minor Sandrah love interest. Portrayed as sweet and timid though. Spoilers for the next episodes if he stays in the party for a bit, there's not that much content though, maybe a dozen banters or so.
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Jan 20, 2021 16:33
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People like to poo poo on Aerie and her character arc and romance arc, but between how good she gets after she gets over her wings and... and all of this fanfiction, I miss her.
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Jan 20, 2021 17:00
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Imoen’s bg1npc dialogue is tolerable, even if it’s maybe a little precious. I find its goofiness pretty charming, actually. Sandrah, though, does manage to make me cringe. Awkward sentences and rough grammar aside, I am disgusted by how she butts in to warn the player about the girdle, and how she’s confronts Tarnesh before the man has said more than two words. Both times she’s 100% correct, both times she takes over and plays the game for you. I hate her precociousness, I hate her (flirty?) asides, I hate her dad stuff, I hate her stupid equipment And I hope that isn’t our dog in Jaheira’s portrait, he’s supposed to be OUR dog 
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Jan 20, 2021 17:02
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Fivemarks posted:People like to poo poo on Aerie and her character arc and romance arc, but between how good she gets after she gets over her wings and... and all of this fanfiction, I miss her. Aerie's romance was the only one I could figure out as a kid so it'll always have a special place in my heart. I've barely moved an inch since last time and Sandrah has managed to strike up a conversation TWO times. It's insane how much shlock Roxanne has managed to cram into this thing.
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Jan 20, 2021 17:12
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What a hilarious trainwreck. I'm glad Mysterious Mage is cool with us traveling with and objectifying his daughter, or that we got the dialog about how Mysterious Mage was cool with this arrangement and then a rant from Sandra about hiding from him. I'm on board for this trainwreck. I completely get the Khalid hate though, stop running, rear end in a top hat, we need the melee line to hold!
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Jan 20, 2021 17:21
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Vichan posted:Aerie's romance was the only one I could figure out as a kid so it'll always have a special place in my heart. I couldn't play this. I'd honestly be taking every option that was close to "SHUT UP JUST SHUT THE gently caress UP" by now and you've gone like three screens.
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Jan 20, 2021 17:34
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Back when I played BG1 for the first time, Khalid was an absolute mvp in the party Give the guy a bow and he shreds things, without getting weird or evil in conversation
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Jan 20, 2021 18:13
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GrayDorian posted:Back when I played BG1 for the first time, Khalid was an absolute mvp in the party Give that guy the strength gauntlets and some "remove fear" later and he shreds in the frontline with the meme-y Berserker, too. (Ajantis, buddy, i like you but "THE EVIL" gets a bit too much sometimes)
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Jan 20, 2021 18:49
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Chapter IV - From your words the other day I have deducted that you have known my mother still alive. So, about that strange creature and the dead guy in the room...  I'm glad my companions managed to keep their head on their shoulders because I'm still reeling.  Yes, this is actually happening.  Why is she wearing modern clothes? What's with the mask? Why does she have a gun strapped to her back?  She's pretty forthcoming.    One unique item, two slightly less unique ones. Her silver sword has 2d6 +3 damage as well as a -3 to THAC0 rolls. It is at this point that we turn to the Unofficial Sandrah Guide by PaulaMigrate who is her own person and not one of Roxanne's alts who's been outed and banned on the Beamdog forums: quote:Jen’lig is a thief, which is unique for her race. Due to her race abilities she is also a very useful Deleted possible spoilers. Anyway, that means we're stuck with 4 companions at the very least if we want to keep her around. Under no circumstances will I ever let either Imoen or Sandrah to leave the party.  Nifty.  Vichan gives as good as he gets. Those were two convo's that Sandrah initiated back to back, by the way. Jen'lig doesn't seem to have any PIDs, but you know who does?  Never let it be said this mod doesn't have its moments. Right after this Jen'lig feels the need to chime in.  I'm still extremely confused why Roxanne felt the need to add this particular character. Will it make sense as time goes on? Only one way to find out. First we sleep, though. When we wake up.  How cute.  In the corner is a dwarf who offers to forge things for me, I don't have anything he can work with so we'll have to come back to this later. Talking to Dorn the blackguard didn't offer any unique dialogue, so I guess we're done here.  The new characters in the FAI courtyard turned out to be merchants, only one of which sells interesting (and OP) gear. It's all WAY above our paygrade for now.  God, that's so interesting. Tell me more!  God, that's even more interesting. How did you and Khalid meet, though?  What a sweet moment.  Before we take another step though...  ...God drat you, Roxanne. Khalid deserves better.  ...Let's just check out the temple and get Joia's flame ring before I get a migraine.  Ugh... She sells the claw of Kazgaroth, by the way.  ...And with that bit of character assassination I've had my fill for the day. We'll explore the FAI outskirts and beyond next time. Vichan fucked around with this message at 17:04 on Feb 1, 2022 |
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Jan 20, 2021 18:51
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Sweet Jesus what have I begun... Anyway, once again this was more content than I first imagined but I didn't want to leave you guys with a cliffhanger for too long. Fivemarks posted:I couldn't play this. I'd honestly be taking every option that was close to "SHUT UP JUST SHUT THE gently caress UP" by now and you've gone like three screens. I hope my suffering is appreciated.
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Jan 20, 2021 18:51
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"I have deducted that you knew my mother still alive" This is only the Friendly Arm Inn and I can't wait to see how deep the rabbit hole goes.
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Jan 20, 2021 18:58
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TheGreatEvilKing posted:"I have deducted that you knew my mother still alive" Way better chapter title, thanks.
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Jan 20, 2021 19:00
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An edgy Githyanki super badass was not a quirk of Sandrah I was expecting, yet it seems entirely in-character for this mod. Hmmm.
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Jan 20, 2021 19:01
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Definitely give a visit to the FAI temple, you'll come across a certain trader with a rather special background and name. I got Sandrah to comment on it but only after going to beregos first for whatever reason.
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Jan 20, 2021 19:07
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Lesson One for all aspiring writers: learn when to shut the gently caress up. You do not need to vomit out every single passing thought you have ever had about every single character. Especially not in the first couple of areas of a very long game. Christ on a unicycle. Also the sockpuppet exposition is hilarious in a sad way. I would very much like to see an alternate playthrough being rude to Sandrah as much as possible. I'm assuming it'll break the game if you don't fawn over the Mary Sue sufficiently but I'd like to see someone try.
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Jan 20, 2021 19:14
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Black Robe posted:Also the sockpuppet exposition is hilarious in a sad way. I was planning on expanding on the sockpuppet thing as an aside but I might make that its own post. I'm assuming it's okay to quote things from other forums, right? quote:I would very much like to see an alternate playthrough being rude to Sandrah as much as possible. I'm assuming it'll break the game if you don't fawn over the Mary Sue sufficiently but I'd like to see someone try. I can always reload and pick some rude options here and there, actually quite curious myself. I'm definitely picking this poo poo up again so I can explore other companion combo's somewhere along the line. EDIT: Is there an easy way to see banters in a text file or something? Not to spoil myself but I'd like to know if I've exhausted a particular character's banter.
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Jan 20, 2021 19:18
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quote:(although Jen'lig will sooner or later leave you for being an incompetent leader if you kick Sandrah out) Hell yeah, that’s the stuff
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Jan 20, 2021 19:23
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Vichan posted:EDIT: Is there an easy way to see banters in a text file or something? Not to spoil myself but I'd like to know if I've exhausted a particular character's banter. Assuming EE modding works like pre-EE... If you can find the folder for Sandrah's dialogue (I have no idea how her mod is organized) you want to look for files with the .d, .b., or .j suffix. I'm at work so I can't check my own mod files to see the exact naming scheme of the files. IIRC, Valerie for example had her files named things like t2val.b (her banters with NPCs), t2val.j (her dialogue with the PC), etc. I think that's how the game required such files to work, but it's been almost a decade since I've done any modding work. There was a variety of modding utilities that let you explore the game files, like IE Explorer, but I don't know which if any you might have. Edit: I made this post in the Infinity Engine thread in games, while we're talking about the details of modding, about how much work it takes to create a mod NPC. When I was in high school, I made a mod NPC named Darian. Darian is a poorly-written rear end in a top hat who's decidedly Sue-ish, and I generally look back on this mod with regret (though he's got nothing on Sandrah imo). quote:However, as an example I'll use Darian, the mod NPC I made with full BG2 - SoA and ToB - content and, as the modding community defines things, full features. As NPC mods go, Darian is pretty bare bones for what was considered a fully featured mod NPC. Sandrah's mod includes dozens if not hundreds (this is almost certainly not an exaggeration) of times more work than this. Cythereal fucked around with this message at 19:36 on Jan 20, 2021 |
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Jan 20, 2021 19:29
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