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What do you think about the situation?
The Dems lied
People weren't paying attention
2k is bullshit unless its reoccuring
I am a monster who believes in total austerity and oppose the survival checks
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Covok
May 27, 2013
Probation
Can't post for 29 days!


After Trump demanded 2k stimulus checks in an odd effort to sabotage his own party, the democrats ran on that as a key platform in Georgia.

There original pledge was an amendment to the $600 to be 2k, thus an additional 1.4k. They kept this pledge even though it has been a month since the original $600 went out.

Numerous voters feel mislead. They were promised 2k checks in numerous advertisements, not an extra 1.4k. Many feel this was false advertising and feel betrayed.

Either way, a single 2k check is not enough to fix things.

A lot of people want to argue about so here you go! Try not to be a jackass about it.

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sexpig by night
Sep 8, 2011

There have been 82631 posts made by sexpig by night, an average of 24.08 posts per day

The Democrats!


I couldn't vote twice so I went with 'dems lied' but I do also wanna be clear that 2k is indeed pointless if it's not reoccurring, making this a constantly occurring fight is so loving stupid

Covok
May 27, 2013
Probation
Can't post for 29 days!


sexpig by night posted:

I couldn't vote twice so I went with 'dems lied' but I do also wanna be clear that 2k is indeed pointless if it's not reoccurring, making this a constantly occurring fight is so loving stupid

Yeah I should have added some extra options. I don't think you can edit a poll. Didn't think of people wanting both of those. I guess just go with what you feel most strongly about.

BRAKE FOR MOOSE
Jun 6, 2001

It Could Save Your Life
HUNDREDS OF COLLISIONS



My opinion is that while the entire thing clearly launched out of increasing the $600 checks to $2000, and the campaign and messaging started as increasing the checks to $2000, they then kept hammering on $2000 checks without context up until the special election so tons and tons of people saw it as just $2000 checks. It is clear that even some of the people calling voters thought that it was meant to be $2000 checks. I think it was deliberately misleading campaign messaging because the alternative is a level of incompetence that I'm not even willing to grant Democrats.

At this point, it's simply a terrible own-goal to make it $1400 instead of $2000. There's the cost of Georgia for you.

The Oldest Man
Jul 28, 2003



Covok posted:

After Trump demanded 2k stimulus checks in an odd effort to sabotage his own party, the democrats ran on that as a key platform in Georgia.

There original pledge was an amendment to the $600 to be 2k, thus an additional 1.4k. They kept this pledge even though it has been a month since the original $600 went out.

Numerous voters feel mislead. They were promised 2k checks in numerous advertisements, not an extra 1.4k. Many feel this was false advertising and feel betrayed.

Either way, a single 2k check is not enough to fix things.

A lot of people want to argue about so here you go! Try not to be a jackass about it.



Yeah they lied. The legislation never said they'd do this but their ads sure as gently caress did.

sexpig by night
Sep 8, 2011

There have been 82631 posts made by sexpig by night, an average of 24.08 posts per day

The Democrats!


The Oldest Man posted:



Yeah they lied. The legislation never said they'd do this but their ads sure as gently caress did.

remember when Biden said '$2,000 checks will go out the door' as soon as the new GA senators won and were sworn in?

It's such insane gaslighting bullshit from the exact people who claim any attempt to correct them is the REAL 'gaslighting', it's infuriating.

Fister Roboto
Feb 21, 2008




Buglord

Regardless of whether the Dems deliberately mislead people, or people just weren't paying attention, $2000 checks need to happen, at the very least.

Anyone who defends the decision to only send out $1400 (especially if that's the last check we ever see) should be ashamed of themself.

Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005

0.000% of Communism has been built. Evil child-murdering billionaires still rule the world with a shit-eating grin.

BRAKE FOR MOOSE posted:

My opinion is that while the entire thing clearly launched out of increasing the $600 checks to $2000, and the campaign and messaging started as increasing the checks to $2000, they then kept hammering on $2000 checks without context up until the special election so tons and tons of people saw it as just $2000 checks. It is clear that even some of the people calling voters thought that it was meant to be $2000 checks. I think it was deliberately misleading campaign messaging because the alternative is a level of incompetence that I'm not even willing to grant Democrats.

At this point, it's simply a terrible own-goal to make it $1400 instead of $2000. There's the cost of Georgia for you.

Yeah, it was undeniably deliberately misleading and only "not a lie" in the most technical sense.

But if you consider that most of the "1400 + 600 = 2000 don't you know math?!" people are primarily politically motivated by a distaste towards dumb people (or at least people they perceive as dumb), you can understand why they'd really get off on being able to act like everyone who is saying negative things about their political heroes is actually an idiot who can't even do basic arithmetic.

The Oldest Man
Jul 28, 2003



sexpig by night posted:

remember when Biden said '$2,000 checks will go out the door' as soon as the new GA senators won and were sworn in?

It's such insane gaslighting bullshit from the exact people who claim any attempt to correct them is the REAL 'gaslighting', it's infuriating.

Don't plaster a picture of a check made out for $2000 all over TV and the internet and then tell me I'm a dum dum because I just didn't understand that the number "$2000" is really the sum of a payment for $600 that went you before you bought the ads and then a new payment for $1400. That's what's known in the industry as "bullshit."

Aruan
Nov 4, 2020



I'd like to suggest a new option: I'd like $4000.

Srice
Sep 11, 2011



Because in 2020 we got a $1200 check and then a $600 check, if the dems want their argument to make logical sense they should be proposing $200 checks instead.

sexpig by night
Sep 8, 2011

There have been 82631 posts made by sexpig by night, an average of 24.08 posts per day

The Democrats!


Aruan posted:

I'd like to suggest a new option: I'd like $4000.

every time someone says 'it's actually 1400 + 600' the check gets 1k higher

Aruan
Nov 4, 2020



Give me my $6000.

Covok
May 27, 2013
Probation
Can't post for 29 days!


Who are the 2 fucks who voted for austerity?

Riptor
Apr 13, 2003

here's to feelin' good all the time


It was poor messaging which led to an ambiguous concept, so the democrats may have misled people but they did not lie. And $2000 is a pittance which should be significantly bumped up to regular payments for the duration of this poo poo

sexpig by night
Sep 8, 2011

There have been 82631 posts made by sexpig by night, an average of 24.08 posts per day

The Democrats!


Riptor posted:

It was poor messaging which led to an ambiguous concept, so the democrats may have misled people but they did not lie. And $2000 is a pittance which should be significantly bumped up to regular payments for the duration of this poo poo

they said, multiple times, '$2000 check'. How is it not a lie and how is it ambiguous?

Aruan
Nov 4, 2020



Covok posted:

Who are the 2 fucks who voted for austerity?

you made a bad poll, OP

Slow News Day
Jul 4, 2007


Aruan posted:

you made a bad poll, OP

Riptor
Apr 13, 2003

here's to feelin' good all the time


sexpig by night posted:

they said, multiple times, '$2000 check'. How is it not a lie and how is it ambiguous?

The ambiguity is entirely due to timing and terminology. They should have said stimulus or payment or something, since check made it sound like it'd come all at one time, which to be fair was a distinct possibility before the $600 went out.

Once the $600 did go out though, they clearly made an error by not changing their terminology. Had they said something like "people got a $600 stimulus but they deserve a $2000 one" I don't think we'd be having this discussion since it takes away the mental image of a "check" as a discrete payment

Fritz the Horse
Dec 26, 2019



That sure seems to be a push poll.

My take: the messaging was ambiguous and some individual campaigns might have deliberately misled but the Democrats at a national level were always pushing for $1400 additional.

The conversation goes back to December when Dems in Congress wanted $2000 total and indeed passed bills to add an additional $1400 to the $600. Trump backed that +$1400 bill! Mitch killed it.

So I'd vote for about two and a half of the options in your poll. People weren't paying much attention if they missed the 600+1400 debate in December, Dem messaging was ambiguous into the GA runoffs, and we need more stimulus which is coming in some form from the Biden administration.

"Dems lied" is pretty uncharitable. If you're predisposed to assume that Dems are going to lie, trick, mislead you and are acting in bad faith then well, that's how you'll see this.



I think this is not so much a matter of math and austerity as it is one of your perception of the Democratic Party. Do you see them as generally acting in good faith or in bad faith?

Riptor posted:

The ambiguity is entirely due to timing and terminology. They should have said stimulus or payment or something, since check made it sound like it'd come all at one time, which to be fair was a distinct possibility before the $600 went out.

Once the $600 did go out though, they clearly made an error by not changing their terminology. Had they said something like "people got a $600 stimulus but they deserve a $2000 one" I don't think we'd be having this discussion since it takes away the mental image of a "check" as a discrete payment

This is also a very good point. $2000 stimulus communicates a total amount moreso than "$2000 check" because a check is a discrete, concrete thing. Check however communicates that it's going to be a direct, immediate payment rather than something in your taxes for example.

Messaging blunder.

Fritz the Horse fucked around with this message at 17:43 on Jan 20, 2021

Fritz the Horse
Dec 26, 2019



There probably won't be polling on this. I'd be interested to see results if there ever is. I feel like the check math outrage is probably only a thing with people who are very online and paying close attention to this stuff.

The Oldest Man
Jul 28, 2003



Fritz the Horse posted:

So I'd vote for about two and a half of the options in your poll. People weren't paying much attention if they missed the 600+1400 debate in December, Dem messaging was ambiguous into the GA runoffs, and we need more stimulus which is coming in some form from the Biden administration.
Messaging blunder.

There's nothing ambiguous about a huge loving picture of a check made out for $2000 and the slogan "want a $2000 check? vote for me."

ted hitler hunter
Apr 6, 2009

THE POSSESSION OF WEALTH IS IN AND OF ITSELF A SIGN OF POOR VIRTUE. AS SUCH:
1 NEVER TRUST ANY RICH PERSON.
2 NEVER HIRE ANY RICH PERSON.
BY RULE 1, IT IS APPROPRIATE TO PRESUME THAT ALL DEGREES AND CREDENTIALS HELD BY A WEALTHY PERSON ARE FRAUDULENT. THIS JUSTIFIES RULE 2--RULE 1 NEEDS NO JUSTIFIC




Subtraction

Remember to show your work as well as your answer.

1 )

If Joseph promises to give his friend 2000 dollars and then gives them 1400 dollars how much does he still owe his friend?

2000
- 1400
= 600



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6M89-6106I

Remember order matters when dealing with subtraction.

ted hitler hunter fucked around with this message at 18:56 on Jan 20, 2021

Owlofcreamcheese
May 22, 2005

I've spent decades reading Covid-19 articles, far more than you have. That makes me more of an expert than you ever can dream of.

Buglord

2000 vs 1400 is pretty lame but also people are pretty clearly trying to play it up really hard to try and distract from the increase in minimum wage and federal unemployment that will do infinitely more for people's lives and finances than a single one time payment.

goethe.cx
Apr 23, 2014


gas

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

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BRAKE FOR MOOSE
Jun 6, 2001

It Could Save Your Life
HUNDREDS OF COLLISIONS



Owlofcreamcheese posted:

2000 vs 1400 is pretty lame but also people are pretty clearly trying to play it up really hard to try and distract from the increase in minimum wage and federal unemployment that will do infinitely more for people's lives and finances than a single one time payment.

The increase in federal minimum wage is not likely to affect a lot of workers immediately, and many state unemployment offices are morasses of garbage that make claims difficult. These are good, and it's not to minimize the impact long-term programs, but to harp on the necessity of direct aid now. Direct payments are an additional and sorely needed solution.

The Oldest Man
Jul 28, 2003



There's also that whole issue of the millions of people who operate in the grey market economy and never qualified for UI in the first place. Coincidentally, many of these same people have been forced to the margins of the housing market in informal arrangements like renting a room under the table or couch surfing and are being thrown in the street because they never benefitted from the protections of the patchwork of eviction moratoriums (to the extent those even existed in practice) and/or are being forced out of their homes through threats or actual violence from their landlords who know that the cops won't lift a loving finger to protect people like sex workers and who are so dangerous to them that they'd never dare call them in the first place.

Aruan
Nov 4, 2020




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Covok
May 27, 2013
Probation
Can't post for 29 days!



It's either this or people argue about this in the main US politics thread.

Lib and let die
Aug 26, 2004

"...and we sent them to the nursing homes! In the middle of a pandemic!"

The democrat party lied, like it does, which I'm sure Republicans won't weaponize against them to create effective, truth-based propaganda to crush them in 2022.

Jaxyon
Mar 6, 2016
SHAME ME FOR MY AWFUL POSTS INSTEAD

YOU KNOW THEY SAY ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL. BUT YOU LOOK AT ME AND YOU LOOK AT SMILIN JOE AND YOU CAN SEE THAT STATEMENT IS NOT TRUE! SEE NORMALLY IF YOU GO VOTE FOR $2000 YOU GET $2000! BUT I'M A POLITICAL FREAK AND I'M NOT NORMAL! SO YOU GOT A $1400 CHECK WHEN YOU VOTE FOR ME! AND THEN YOU ADD THE SENATE TO THE MIX, THE CHANCES OF GETTING A $2000 CHECK DRASTICALLY GO DOWN! SEE THE SENATE RUNOFFS IN GEORGIA YOU GOT A $2000 CHECK. BUT I, I GOT A $1400 CHECK BECAUSE EVERYBODY KNOWS I AM IN OFFICE NOW AND I'M NOT EVEN GONNA TRY! SO SMILING JOE YOU TAKE YOUR $2000 CHANCE MINUS MY $600 CHECK AND YOU GOT A $1400 CHECK AND YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO MAKE SOME SACRIFICE. BUT THEN YOU TAKE MY $1400 CHECK AND ADD YOUR $600 CHECK AND YOU HAVE $2000 WITHOUT HAVING TO SACRIFICE! SENIOR JOE?THE NUMBERS DON'T LIE AND THEY SPELL DISASTER FOR YOU AT THE MIDTERMS.

Sanguinia
Jan 1, 2012

#RXT REVOLUTION~!
2000





2000 dollar checks would be great and should probably be done, but anybody pretending it was always going to be 2000 dollar checks and now the Democratic Party is backing off and breaking promises, especially the people who were loudly cheering for the 600 to be raised by 1400 to 2000 literally days ago, is an rear end in a top hat of the highest order. Flash as many campaign ads or quotations as you want, you KNOW what it was supposed to be and acting like you didn't and you've been tricked by the big bad LIBERALS makes you look like a jerk.

Shere
Mar 26, 2006

It's shrine maiden, not shrine maid!


1) There was clearly an abundance of lying going around. There's no possible excuse for the Warnock advertisement and Biden's multiple mentions of "a $2000 check" in plain text and plain speech over two weeks after many millions of people already received their $600 checks.

2) I'll believe in good faith that at least a portion of the people responsible always intended to fight for the 'original' $2000 i.e. "we should have given you $2000, not $600" but I would also directly question their priorities if I were aware of this actively being the case. The prevailing indication in speech and advertisements was focused specifically on the number two thousand in the context of a survival check - no one ever mentioned it as an "increase to two thousand" or as a one thousand and four hundred/fourteen hundred dollar check. This isn't just pedantry, it's a whole engine that spooled up to win Georgia and had plenty of really smart people working on it who had to know this language was being used in this way with intent to mislead.

3) The idea that we need to reach back likely months at this point to a bill and survival check that has already passed and been disbursed instead of issuing and entirely new check in the moment is ridiculous and blinkered to the current situation. There was no conversation in December about going back to the May survival check and increasing it to $1800. That would be patently ridiculous. Current discussions around this survival check are actually just discussions and it's very likely to be weeks or more before we see true action towards a disbursement and one has to begin to wonder what the statute of limitations is on check recombination.

4) The difference of $600 is not worth pissing people off. It's an egregious own-goal.

WampaLord
Jan 14, 2010





Sanguinia posted:

2000 dollar checks would be great and should probably be done, but anybody pretending it was always going to be 2000 dollar checks and now the Democratic Party is backing off and breaking promises, especially the people who were loudly cheering for the 600 to be raised by 1400 to 2000 literally days ago, is an rear end in a top hat of the highest order. Flash as many campaign ads or quotations as you want, you KNOW what it was supposed to be and acting like you didn't and you've been tricked by the big bad LIBERALS makes you look like a jerk.

Wanna tell this dude he's an rear end in a top hat of the highest order?



I wonder if he'll campaign for Democratic candidates again.

From here: https://www.mediaite.com/election-2...-stimulus-plan/

The Oldest Man
Jul 28, 2003



Sanguinia posted:

Flash as many campaign ads or quotations as you want, you KNOW what it was supposed to be and acting like you didn't and you've been tricked by the big bad LIBERALS makes you look like a jerk.

No you're the jerk

Shere
Mar 26, 2006

It's shrine maiden, not shrine maid!


Sanguinia posted:

2000 dollar checks would be great and should probably be done, but anybody pretending it was always going to be 2000 dollar checks and now the Democratic Party is backing off and breaking promises, especially the people who were loudly cheering for the 600 to be raised by 1400 to 2000 literally days ago, is an rear end in a top hat of the highest order. Flash as many campaign ads or quotations as you want, you KNOW what it was supposed to be and acting like you didn't and you've been tricked by the big bad LIBERALS makes you look like a jerk.

I got my $600 check before the Georgia runoff and I know I wasn't alone. I received my $600 check before I even saw a single "You want a $2000 check?" ad. There was no asterisk, no fine print, no "increase to $2000" - nothing. Plain text, plain speech, you vote these two in and we'll get you a $2000 check. This was over 10 days after that month-long disappointment of a bill got finalized. I was under the mistaken assumption that the "big bad Liberals" wanted to make the situation right and actually disperse another full payment because I'm not a fool and I know by the time they take office and get a bill together and vote it's going to be another set of weeks or months of pandemic living where my wife is barely employed and I'm bleeding through my savings. The $600 came and went the same day it hit my bank account, the money isn't just sitting there waiting to be made whole someday - it's gone. I'm not counting it anymore so I'm extremely confused why everyone else is.

So yeah, call me an rear end in a top hat of the highest order, I'm right here.

The Oldest Man
Jul 28, 2003



Shere posted:

I got my $600 check before the Georgia runoff and I know I wasn't alone. I received my $600 check before I even saw a single "You want a $2000 check?" ad. There was no asterisk, no fine print, no "increase to $2000" - nothing. Plain text, plain speech, you vote these two in and we'll get you a $2000 check. This was over 10 days after that month-long disappointment of a bill got finalized. I was under the mistaken assumption that the "big bad Liberals" wanted to make the situation right and actually disperse another full payment because I'm not a fool and I know by the time they take office and get a bill together and vote it's going to be another set of weeks or months of pandemic living where my wife is barely employed and I'm bleeding through my savings. The $600 came and went the same day it hit my bank account, the money isn't just sitting there waiting to be made whole someday - it's gone. I'm not counting it anymore so I'm extremely confused why everyone else is.

So yeah, call me an rear end in a top hat of the highest order, I'm right here.

Jerk detected

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Herstory Begins Now
Aug 5, 2003



The Oldest Man posted:

Jerk detected

you want to sit today out?

Herstory Begins Now
Aug 5, 2003



also don't poo poo this thread up for no reason, and that applies to everyone

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sexpig by night
Sep 8, 2011

There have been 82631 posts made by sexpig by night, an average of 24.08 posts per day

The Democrats!


Herstory Begins Now posted:

you want to sit today out?

So you said that to a glib post making fun of a guy just literally outright lying about very recent objective reality and calling people who actually worked to elect democrats based on a lie they were told 'assholes of the highest order', but not the first dude?

Like, what's the standards for discussion here, can we get that written out somewhere tangible? It feels like the rules tend to be 'if you write a whole paragraph of just straight up lies that everyone knows are lies you're having a discussion but if you respond to a paragraph of lies with a one line 'shut up idiot' thing that's when the discussion breaks down?

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