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Muscle Wizard
Jul 28, 2011

by sebmojo

zaepg posted:

But America does this. Except we're not small or weak in the global scene so our influences are greater, and heavily coated in false promises and good well-doing, that ultimately turn out to be bad.

The difference, I see. Between us and Russia is Russia accepts corruption. However in America we tend to call corruption as it is and try and prevent it. We took out the Indians when they didn't see our way of life, we took out the South during the Civil war, we took out Trump when we didn't like him. Corruption doesn't go away when you try to silence it, it only grows worse. And my stance, is the longer we try and silence corruption the larger the corruption will be when it takes hold. It's a ticking time bomb. America isn't a utopia. And freedom isn't free. You can see that as a good thing or bad thing. But 50% of the country who generally swings conservative hasn't gone away since our founding fathers and I doubt it's going anywhere soon. At worse they're growing more angry, more restless, and more pissed off for being called the bad guy everyday.

:shrek:

oh for sure dude

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Strategic Tea
Sep 1, 2012

IMO power does not accrue to money, money accrues to power. Putin has the whole of Russia as his personal kingdom as long as he does not upset his house of cards.

He could own nothing but a £30k a year salary, but what does that matter if billions on billions if dollars' civilian and military apparatus deploys on his whim? He sure as poo poo wouldn't be flying economy either way.

Musk can just buy stuff, if he can find someone selling, and if no one puts a bullet in him. No one will write history about him.

Sucrose
Dec 9, 2009

zaepg posted:

But America does this. Except we're not small or weak in the global scene so our influences are greater, and heavily coated in false promises and good well-doing, that ultimately turn out to be bad.

The difference, I see. Between us and Russia is Russia accepts corruption. However in America we tend to call corruption as it is and try and prevent it. We took out the Indians when they didn't see our way of life, we took out the South during the Civil war, we took out Trump when we didn't like him. Corruption doesn't go away when you try to silence it, it only grows worse. And my stance, is the longer we try and silence corruption the larger the corruption will be when it takes hold. It's a ticking time bomb. America isn't a utopia. And freedom isn't free. You can see that as a good thing or bad thing. But 50% of the country who generally swings conservative hasn't gone away since our founding fathers and I doubt it's going anywhere soon. At worse they're growing more angry, more restless, and more pissed off for being called the bad guy everyday.

You've missed the loving point. The US is not capable of subjugating Russia, Russia is capable of subjugating smaller countries. The US being Bad does not make Russia Good. In reality the geopolitical world is made up of multiple competing flavors of Bad, and in fact when it comes to groups of human beings capable of exerting power over other human beings it's mostly Bad all the way down.

SleepySonata
Mar 3, 2010

Infinite Karma posted:

I wonder how rich Putin really is. Is he actually secretly richer than Elon Musk?

Let's posit a question: Putin and Elon both go to hire the same person, who actually ends up with the contract?

Infinite Karma
Oct 23, 2004
Good as dead





I wasn't making a joke about mob ties or assassinations, tons of business journals think he's the richest man in the world with $200 billion in assets. Others think he's only worth $70 billion. He's very very rich either way, on top of commanding a huge military and spy network.

Calvin Johnson Jr.
Dec 8, 2009
What's the tangible difference between having $200 billion or $70 billion? I don't even know how you would spend the 70 without running out of ideas.

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week

Infinite Karma posted:

I wonder how rich Putin really is. Is he actually secretly richer than Elon Musk?

When the Panama Papers thing happened there was good evidence that Putin had over $2 billion in offshore money for himself and his family.

Putin effectively controls all the state-owned companies in Russia, including Gazprom which is in the top 100 biggest companies in the world and makes $20 billion a year in profits. Do those count as "his" for wealth? Even that billion-dollar palace isn't technically his, it's owned by various branches of the russian state. He didn't have to pay for it himself.


Putin is kinda beyond money, he's either a relatively ho-hum billionaire or the richest man in the world, depending how you look at it.

zaepg
Dec 25, 2008

by sebmojo

Sucrose posted:

You've missed the loving point. The US is not capable of subjugating Russia, Russia is capable of subjugating smaller countries. The US being Bad does not make Russia Good. In reality the geopolitical world is made up of multiple competing flavors of Bad, and in fact when it comes to groups of human beings capable of exerting power over other human beings it's mostly Bad all the way down.

Sure. I agree. Both America and Russia are bad.

Muscle Wizard posted:

oh for sure dude

Cool.

Do it ironically
Jul 13, 2010

by Pragmatica
the problem with being Putin is yeah you're wealthy and powerful but if he tries to "leave" the racket and he's vulnerable someone is going to grab that power vacuum and then murder him. The way I see it is there's no retiring from his scheme to enjoy his evil gains

thekeeshman
Feb 21, 2007
Yeah he's basically riding the tiger, if he gets off the tiger will eat him. The tiger in this case being whichever the next strongman is, though as far as I know there's no obvious successor. So he'll be super rich until he isn't, and at that point I guess the best he can hope for is that his kids are overseas with a lot of stolen money in cayman islands bank accounts.

EorayMel
May 30, 2015

WE GET IT. YOU LOVE GUN JESUS. Toujours des fusils Bullpup Français.
How well can putin smoke weed vs elon musk, who cannot smoke weed

Also nobody point out whataboutism was made by the soviet union to bounce criticisms of it back to the USA to that one weird goon ITT too late

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week

Calvin Johnson Jr. posted:

What's the tangible difference between having $200 billion or $70 billion? I don't even know how you would spend the 70 without running out of ideas.

I dunno, but I can tell you what the tangible difference between having $200 billion and being V Putin is:

"I really enjoy a holiday on the black sea coast. Minions, go build me a palace there. Also, take over Crimea and Abkhazia, so that I can sit on my balcony and not be offended by the sight of any land which is not my own!"



Do it ironically posted:

the problem with being Putin is yeah you're wealthy and powerful but if he tries to "leave" the racket and he's vulnerable someone is going to grab that power vacuum and then murder him. The way I see it is there's no retiring from his scheme to enjoy his evil gains

For some reason, dictators never consider the prospects of a relaxing retirement. Apparently being exposed to that amount of power makes you feel like dictator for life is just an automatic yes.

e:

EorayMel posted:

How well can putin smoke weed vs elon musk, who cannot smoke weed

In the video it says there's a dedicated hookah room.

Pennywise the Frown
May 10, 2010

Upset Trowel

:chloe:


:chloe::chloe::chloe:

Pennywise the Frown fucked around with this message at 21:10 on Jan 21, 2021

EorayMel
May 30, 2015

WE GET IT. YOU LOVE GUN JESUS. Toujours des fusils Bullpup Français.

Klyith posted:

In the video it says there's a dedicated hookah room.

This post but it is in the Putin Palace™

William Henry Hairytaint
Oct 29, 2011



Meme Poker Party posted:

It's never too late to go after your dreams.

You're a good person :unsmith:

Pennywise the Frown
May 10, 2010

Upset Trowel
Also lol at the dude trying to defend Putin and Russia.

Meme Poker Party
Sep 1, 2006

by Azathoth

William Henry Hairytaint posted:

You're a good person :unsmith:

A wise man once said "human beings are strong because we have the ability to change ourselves."

Colonel Cancer
Sep 26, 2015

Tune into the fireplace channel, you absolute buffoon
An enemy of your enemy is not your friend, just point your finger and lol

Philthy
Jan 28, 2003

Pillbug
looks like a bigger version of Glenn Danzig's old house

Sucrose
Dec 9, 2009

Klyith posted:

I dunno, but I can tell you what the tangible difference between having $200 billion and being V Putin is:

"I really enjoy a holiday on the black sea coast. Minions, go build me a palace there. Also, take over Crimea and Abkhazia, so that I can sit on my balcony and not be offended by the sight of any land which is not my own!"


For some reason, dictators never consider the prospects of a relaxing retirement. Apparently being exposed to that amount of power makes you feel like dictator for life is just an automatic yes.


I would assume that most dictators are in it for the power and glory just as much as they're in it for the money.

edit: Although obviously one of Putin's main motivations is apparently the finer things in life.

Sucrose fucked around with this message at 22:50 on Jan 21, 2021

Randarkman
Jul 18, 2011

thekeeshman posted:

Yeah he's basically riding the tiger, if he gets off the tiger will eat him. The tiger in this case being whichever the next strongman is, though as far as I know there's no obvious successor. So he'll be super rich until he isn't, and at that point I guess the best he can hope for is that his kids are overseas with a lot of stolen money in cayman islands bank accounts.

I think Diocletian cracked the code on autocratic regimes, you need to strip away all the pretenses of republicanism, accountability and popular sovereingty and instead present a nakedly despotic regime wrapped up in ceremony and divinity. Then you can retire to grow cabbages.

Julius CSAR
Oct 3, 2007

by sebmojo

Bape Culture posted:

Not sure how you got that from that post.

I love to Lol at any word leader and also to imagine building a gigantic palace (without an ice rink or mold)

I got it from that and all the other posts that dude made on page one lmao

Alan Smithee
Jan 4, 2005


A man becomes preeminent, he's expected to have enthusiasms.

Enthusiasms, enthusiasms...

Klyith posted:

Navalny is at the very least a nationalist who is playing to russian xenophobia to remain popular and not get branded as a tool of the west, he's not a liberal by any western standard. If he was a US politician he'd be a sucky option. But all the liberals anti-putin people got jailed or killed already.

russian joe biden?

drat russia's in bad shape if this their answer to the overton window

Bape Culture
Sep 13, 2006

Julius CSAR posted:

I got it from that and all the other posts that dude made on page one lmao

Oh I thought you were talking about me as you quoted. I was going to say; I am not a fan of Vladimir putin

Julius CSAR
Oct 3, 2007

by sebmojo

Bape Culture posted:

Oh I thought you were talking about me as you quoted. I was going to say; I am not a fan of Vladimir putin

Oh man, I totally quoted the wrong post holy crap. Definitely was not directed at you, I’ll go back and edit that!

:edited

NotJustANumber99
Feb 15, 2012

somehow that last av was even worse than your posting
Yeah I guess Putin is pretty rich and powerful. Elons going to own a whole pretty red planet though.

AHH F/UGH
May 25, 2002

Jose posted:

navalny is a straight up neo nazi lol

wait for real

cant find anything on his wiki, where does it say he is

just this:

In late 2006, Navalny appealed to the Moscow City Hall, asking it to grant permission to conduct the nationalist 2006 Russian march. However, he added that Yabloko condemned "any ethnic or racial hatred and any xenophobia" and called on the police to oppose "any Fascist, Nazi, xenophobic manifestations".

AHH F/UGH fucked around with this message at 22:27 on Jan 21, 2021

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week

Alan Smithee posted:

drat russia's in bad shape if this their answer to the overton window

all the propaganda and disinformation they've used to push far-right nationalism in the west? it's effective because they spent years workshopping that poo poo on their own people until they were producing really slick poison on a regular basis. the textbook they're following is by a guy who wrote admiringly about nazi propaganda.


it's a win/win for putin because even when it doesn't result in a friendly wanna-be autocrat like trump getting elected, the resulting societal disruption and unhappiness is fodder he can feed back to his own people: "see, they're constantly at each other's throats in america. riots and burning buildings! you don't want to be like america or accept the things america says are good, or you'll have that chaos here."

that's the game plan. push hyper-nationalism and distrust around the world, because then being an average russian under putin maybe doesn't seem so bad.

Linux Pirate
Apr 21, 2012



Lol unashamedly using half life 2 sounds and footage from the fly and MIB in your super racist video is a turbo russian thing to do.

Sucrose
Dec 9, 2009

Klyith posted:

all the propaganda and disinformation they've used to push far-right nationalism in the west? it's effective because they spent years workshopping that poo poo on their own people until they were producing really slick poison on a regular basis. the textbook they're following is by a guy who wrote admiringly about nazi propaganda.


it's a win/win for putin because even when it doesn't result in a friendly wanna-be autocrat like trump getting elected, the resulting societal disruption and unhappiness is fodder he can feed back to his own people: "see, they're constantly at each other's throats in america. riots and burning buildings! you don't want to be like america or accept the things america says are good, or you'll have that chaos here."

that's the game plan. push hyper-nationalism and distrust around the world, because then being an average russian under putin maybe doesn't seem so bad.

Yeah, I imagine it serves a duel purpose. Creates division if not outright chaos and bloodshed in Russia's rivals, and if the autocratic right-wing nationalists come out on top or with power, naturally they'd want to cozy up to their right-wing ideological kin over in Russia even if they weren't being directly funded by them.

I'm not even sure what the counter is, since criticizing your opponents for their lack of patriotism and being influenced by foreigners is much more the right-wing's game.

edit: How did we even resist the ideological influence of the Nazis? I mean, it's not like the United States was a shining beacon of equality at the time. Not that I'm claiming your average Joe American would have been ok with the Holocaust or anything, but that wasn't revealed until much later. When the Nazis were first gaining power in Germany, what was it that made the American government and public go "Yo, gently caress that." (I'm aware there were some Nazi-sympathetic factions in the US, but they lost the battle for control, badly)

Basically, how do we, in the US, fend off an ideological attack from the Right?

Sucrose fucked around with this message at 23:09 on Jan 21, 2021

Brother Tadger
Feb 15, 2012

I'm accidentally a suicide bomber!


God drat you weren’t kidding. I had to turn this off halfway through because it was so vile yet stylized/effective

Jose
Jul 24, 2007

Adrian Chiles is a broadcaster and writer

AHH F/UGH posted:

wait for real

cant find anything on his wiki, where does it say he is

just this:

In late 2006, Navalny appealed to the Moscow City Hall, asking it to grant permission to conduct the nationalist 2006 Russian march. However, he added that Yabloko condemned "any ethnic or racial hatred and any xenophobia" and called on the police to oppose "any Fascist, Nazi, xenophobic manifestations".

comparing people to cockroaches and saying shooting them is a good solution is p loving nazi op

Alan Smithee
Jan 4, 2005


A man becomes preeminent, he's expected to have enthusiasms.

Enthusiasms, enthusiasms...

Jose posted:

comparing people to cockroaches and saying shooting them is a good solution is p loving nazi op

alternatively

TheTrend
Feb 4, 2005
I have a descriminating toe

Randarkman posted:

I think Diocletian cracked the code on autocratic regimes, you need to strip away all the pretenses of republicanism, accountability and popular sovereingty and instead present a nakedly despotic regime wrapped up in ceremony and divinity. Then you can retire to grow cabbages.

you should maybe look up the end of Diocletian's life.

perepelki
Dec 11, 2020

know before Whom you stand
the black sea is my sea

perepelki
Dec 11, 2020

know before Whom you stand
no man can conquer the black sea, because it flows out of my heart

Julius CSAR
Oct 3, 2007

by sebmojo

I watched the whole thing.

Holy poo poo

vandalism
Aug 4, 2003
I voted for navalny, lol

PIZZA.BAT
Nov 12, 2016


:cheers:


Julius CSAR posted:

I watched the whole thing.

Holy poo poo

i just clicked too and uh.... yeah that sure looks familiar to the poo poo we're now seeing here in the states. hachi machi

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French Canadian
Feb 23, 2004

Fluffy cat sensory experience

Julius CSAR posted:

I watched the whole thing.

Holy poo poo

Dang that's like some extravagant Command & Conquer cutscene for the Russian campaign...

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