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Electronico6
Feb 25, 2011

Magic Hate Ball posted:

Narration and fourth-wall-breaking is still speaking, though - there's something about singing in particular that's jarring. With a live show, as well, you also have the performers being in tune with the audience, so when the orchestra comes in with the intro to a song, it's a part of the natural give-and-take (the audience has, to some extent, signalled "yes, we are ready to hear you sing now"). But a film doesn't have that same give-and-take, which is probably where that "SONG TIME!" feeling comes from. It's like the difference between how Send in the Clowns functions onstage vs in the movie. In the theatre, it comes as a culmination of a tide of disappointment after a subtle dialogue scene, which is technically also true in the movie, but for some reason they chose to play it like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxTbTfsn1iU

It's such a difficult shift to nail.

This isn't really film problem as it only really accounts for western(American) cinema, and mostly because American film industry simply stopped making musicals, so when you do get a revival it's based on an old musical stage show like Chicago, or it's an awful film made by someone that only understands the world from French films of the 60's and it's quite clear that they didn't even understand those films at all. So it's not that audiences find it odd, after all musicals were for a time one of the most popular and lucrative genres in Hollywood, the industry simply gave up, so it never moved forward.

It is sad that there isn't a film industry out there that makes musicals anymore.














Unless....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjUXr560Gu0

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Electronico6
Feb 25, 2011

But really Franchescanado how do you write so many words and not once mention India. lol

Yes they make musicals. Some people might say the musical parts are the entire point.

Take for example Mani Ratnam's masterpiece Dil Se, in which our hero Shah Rukh Khan at the start of the film meets a woman in a train station, and being the horny dude SRK is, he immediately starts to hit on her. Sadly for him she leaves right away on the first train, and SRK is left behind on the station, in the rain sipping his tea and loudly wondering that he just experienced the shortest love story ever. The scene then fades out into one of the greatest music sequences in Hindi cinema, choreographed by big brain Farah Khan and scored by A.R. Rahman.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0v1It89cKxY

Dil Se will often break into SONG TIME with sequences much Chaiyya Chaiyaa, appearing at glance to be divorced from what's happening on the rest of the film, but not textual, as each sequence plays out as SRK ideal fantasy, or even the ideal SRK film vehicle of the late 90's.

He meets a woman on a train station, which is followed by a musical setpiece on a train. He meets the same woman later, but in a war zone which is followed by...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G44LwTCBGu8

The music of Dil Se paints India as a place for sexy even dangerous adventures in gorgeous and picturesque locations, of beautiful sculpted men and women living in exotic and erotic bliss. The reality is that it's a film about terrorism, state sponsored violence on it's own citizens, and India's own destructive colonial project.

Electronico6
Feb 25, 2011

Franchescanado posted:

It came up a lot in my reading and research, but it's something I know little about outside of that, and hoped someone with a bit more knowledge would bring it up and discuss it. :ohdear:

I'm far from the expert on it, as I'm still only really starting to watch Indian cinema that isn't made by the "Tall One".


Dil Se(1998) is not a bad place to start. It is a very self-conscious film like I mentioned in my other post about it's use of music, and it's main star Shah Rukh Khan. But it's like one of the best films ever, every song is a banger, and Mani Ratnam rules so check it out. Ratnam is from Tamil, south India, and most of his films are Tamil language based, though he sometimes makes Hindi language films(like Dil Se), so honestly he is not best example of what is made in Bollywood.


Sticking with Shah Rukh Khan. He is the biggest modern star of Bollywood and the face of Indian cinema, even if the years are starting to catch up on him. Huge huge ham, great dancer, can sometimes be a bit too much, but he rules.

I already linked it, but I do it again, cause Om Shanti Om(2007) is incredible.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjUXr560Gu0

Dilwale Dulhania Le Jayenge(1995) is the seminal Bollywood film from the 90's that the industry is still trying to make it happen again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bNwqXvMuB8

Rab Ne Bana Di Jodi(2008) has SRK playing against the type, and at the same time playing the most SRK character possible.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgdY_s1LsZc

His early psycho villain and anti-hero roles are also fun. Darr(1993) is the more famous and best one, but Baazigar(1993) and Kabhi Haan Kabhi Naa(1994) are worth checking out. If you want to see SRK wear nothing but jackets and being shirtless for 3 hours Ram Jaane(1995) exists!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnfD7jUUbps

Wouldn't call it good, but it's quite something.





Another good place to start, and a personal favorite, is very horny film Rangeela(1995), with the other 90's Khan, Aamir, Jackie Shroff, and the very very lovely looking Urmila Matondkar.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8k_SfJKVdo

But honestly this is a lovely film. Songs here are by A. R. Rahman, from Dil Se, and they also all good and the dancing rules.



Criterion Channel has right now a spotlight on director/writer/actor/showman Raj Kapoor. Awaara(1951) is the big one.



Starting to get to my limits here, so my final recommendation is the pop Communist Tamil language kino Kaala(2018)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wm_vSSlVsV4

Electronico6
Feb 25, 2011

The Young Girls of Rochefort is not an all-singing dialog free film like Umbrellas, it is very much like an american musical from Donen or Minnelli, but you know French New Wave.

Electronico6
Feb 25, 2011

Young Girls of Rochefort is like really amazing, incredible music and songs, wonderful dancing, lots of colors, sometimes goofy, and sometimes even a bit scary(!), very heartbreaking, and it has the Feminine Ideal.




Go watch it now!

Electronico6
Feb 25, 2011

I like Donkey Skin a lot, but it is weird as hell, so people often don't talk about it.

The other Demy I've watched besides the trilogy and Donkey Skin is Bay of Angels with Jeanne Moreau which has a runtime shorter than 90 minutes and that's all I remember. :v:

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Electronico6
Feb 25, 2011

My 10 Essential Goon Musical list from the intro friendly to the Taiwanese sleepy cinema

Singing in the Rain by Stanley Donen
Gentlemen Prefer Blondes by Howard Hawks
An American in Paris by Vincent Minnelli
Young Girls of Rochefort by Jacques Demy
All that Jazz by Bob Fosse
Rangeela by Ram Gopal Varma
Om Shanti Om by Farah Khan
Dil Se by Mani Ratnam
Golden Eighties by Chantal Akerman
The Hole by Tsai Ming-liang

Edit: Most of it is self-explanatory, 3 of them I already talked about, the last two are the graduation challenge to see just how far someone can take the concept of a musical film.

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