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ThornBrain
Jan 25, 2011




Doom Eternal is the 2020 sequel to the 2016 smash reboot of Doom, picking up eight months after the first game and with some fresh new twists. Gameplay is tougher and faster, greatly limiting your health and ammo so you're required to use your chainsaw more, but also with more fun and fluid platforming; the art direction is more colorful, stylized and comic booky, with the Glory Kills leaning more brutally slapsticky; and the story is far more involved and lore-heavy. How you feel about these changes will likely differ, but it's generally appreciated that Id tried instead of resting on their laurels for a sequel.

The Story
Earth has been consumed by Hell thanks to the help of the corrupted Union Aerospace Corporation. The Doom Slayer returns with a satellite fortress operated by his AI buddy VEGA, with the goal of finding and killing the Hell Priests to quell the invasion. Unlike previous games, things get a lot more complicated from there...

The LP
JigglyJacob takes lead once again with myself (ThornBrain) and TorpidTypist joining on co-commentary. Torpo is largely familiar with the game (up until it got too buggy for him to play anymore), while I haven't a clue.
Because the game is more cutscene-heavy and story-intensive than before, each part will have two versions: one with commentary over the cutscenes and one without. Both links will be under the part banners this time, instead of the banners themselves linking to the videos.

----------------------


(No Commentary Over Cutscenes)
(Commentary Over Cutscenes)


(No Commentary Over Cutscenes)
(Commentary Over Cutscenes)


(No Commentary Over Cutscenes)
(Commentary Over Cutscenes)


(No Commentary Over Cutscenes)
(Commentary Over Cutscenes)


(No Commentary Over Cutscenes)
(Commentary Over Cutscenes)


(No Commentary Over Cutscenes)
(Commentary Over Cutscenes)


(No Commentary Over Cutscenes)
(Commentary Over Cutscenes)

ThornBrain fucked around with this message at 20:01 on Mar 6, 2021

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anilEhilated
Feb 17, 2014

But I say fuck the rain.



Grimey Drawer

Gotta say I agree with Torpid on every one of his criticisms so far. Compared to 2016, this game just feels like there are too many plates to spin at the same time and can get frustrating and exhausting as a result. It is still fun, but I was only able to play it in level-long doses.

AtomikKrab
Jul 17, 2010

Keep on GOP rolling rolling rolling rolling.


I like the plot, but i'm a plot lover.

Dr Christmas
Apr 24, 2010

Berninating the one percent,
Berninating the Wall St.
Berninating all the people
In their high rise penthouses!


There is a lot of lore but itís all in Codex entries that are really dry. The Codex has none of the wry humor of 2016. IIRC they never explain what happened with Doomguy between the ending of the last game and teleporting down from his personal orbital mancave to assassinate one of the architects of the invasion.

SIGSEGV
Nov 4, 2010


This plot is showing signs of severe Chris Metzen contamination.

E: Alright, light Metzen contamination. (Not that Metzen is the only culprit in those cases.)

SIGSEGV fucked around with this message at 23:57 on Jan 22, 2021

That Italian Guy
Jul 25, 2012

Rocky uses Explosive Punch!
Paid by the Spines-for-Lowtax Committee.


E: mmm not sure, is there an incredibly poorly written female character in the story?

My only experience with Doom 2016 and Doom Eternal is through speedruns, and I like the one for Eternal better, so I'm curious to see what the game looks like when half of it is not skipped


CzarChasm
Mar 14, 2009

Blah Blah Blah
Look at me
I'm the Goddamn Batman
Blah Blah Blah


I stopped this probably just before finishing, but I might still eventually come back to finish it.

There was an enemy that we'll get introduced to later that I really loved thematically, but just became a wall for me. Another of the divisive design choices IMO.

It's too bad that for me this game is less than the sum of its parts because I like a lot of the parts. The movement mechanics (that we see a bit of in this video) add some interesting traversal and puzzle mechanics, though on the flip side, that means that level design can get really obtuse. A lot of the "new" enemy designs are really interesting and I dig the slightly more cartoony style, but this game seems to be swinging between grim-dark serious and goofy, Saturday morning wacky in tone. It's really like Doom 2016 was a huge hit, and the party was split between leaning into the more serious stuff (plot) and the sillier aspects (animation, colorful presentation, Doom guy's interactions) and they don't mesh 100% in their current state.

I have other thoughts but I'm already bumping up against spoilers, so I'll save it for when we get there.

FoolyCharged
Oct 11, 2012

Somebody call for an ant?



The UAC hologram worked better when I heard the first message and thought it was an old recording ironically playing over the disastrous new world argent energy created.

AtomikKrab
Jul 17, 2010

Keep on GOP rolling rolling rolling rolling.


FoolyCharged posted:

The UAC hologram worked better when I heard the first message and thought it was an old recording ironically playing over the disastrous new world argent energy created.

Yes, the first was perfect then it just went down the rabbit hole too fast. 2016 just from that one level did the UAC spokespeople better in ratcheting up the creepy through the game.

Samovar
Jun 4, 2011

I'm not a hero...





Yeah, the stupidly epic-esque plot is a real clash compared to the story of the first game as well as the gameplay. It's a real shame, cause otherwise it seems fantastic.

AtomikKrab
Jul 17, 2010

Keep on GOP rolling rolling rolling rolling.


I mean if they make a game that does the transition as a uh... midquel between the two?

Cooked Auto
Aug 4, 2007

If you will not serve in combat, you will serve on the firing line!




The music for the Eternal DLC is made by Andrew Hulshult by the way. Considering his experience making music for Dusk and Amid Evil I'd say it was an excellent choice.

Tiggum
Oct 23, 2007


The contrast between this game and the last one is honestly astounding. I'd rate 2016 4.5 stars. There are a few little things I didn't like about it (particularly the hints at a larger plot that appear more toward the end) and visually it was sometimes hard to pick stuff out from the background or tell one enemy from another, but it was easily the best FPS I've played in years.

And I hate everything about this game.

Precambrian
Apr 30, 2008



I will say, all the plot is just going in one ear and out the other, but I love that the setting design isn't "gunmetal gray sci-fi military installation/barren wasteland of rock and bones" and goes back to the original Doom's use of medieval cathedrals and wooden doors in its Hell aesthetic. It's some nice variety, and I'm excited to hear that future levels are going to show some color variety, too!

azren
Feb 13, 2011




So there are definitely things I'm liking and disliking about this, having never played it, but there's one thing I want to talk about. They're using a trope that I am really sick of, though partly for personal reasons.

I really dislike the "Heaven (or equivalent) is just as bad as Hell" thing. Like, it was clever when it was first done, I suppose, but it usually gets used for nihilistic/overly grimdark "everyone is awful" purposes, and I find that most works that do the nihilistic grimdark thing are very proud of themselves for being "mature" and "edgy." We'll see where it goes from here, but misanthropy and nihilism* are good ways to sour me on something.

This also partly stems from my personal beliefs, but I suspect that's more than is really appropriate for this thread. I'm already talking about philosophy in a Doom game, that's silly enough.

Looking forward to this, though!

*I am aware of moral nihilism, and I don't have a problem with it, I'm referring to the more "everything is pointless and awful" kind.

Lynneth
Sep 13, 2011


I for one thoroughly enjoyed playing this game. I don't remember much that bothered me, and all in all I had a lot of fun with the gameplay., the story, ripping and tearing and so on.

White Coke
May 29, 2015


I haven't played Doom Eternal or TLoZ:BoTW but the incredibly small ammo capacity seems like the low durability on weapons, where they have a specific play style in mind and they over tune the mechanics to force people to play that way.

That Italian Guy
Jul 25, 2012

Rocky uses Explosive Punch!
Paid by the Spines-for-Lowtax Committee.


azren posted:

but it usually gets used for nihilistic/overly grimdark "everyone is awful" purposes, and I find that most works that do the nihilistic grimdark thing are very proud of themselves for being "mature" and "edgy."

Counterpoint:

Yes, this is visibile ingame as well, and in all the cutscenes.

Yes, the wrist blade is replaced with a magic wand that has a rainbow sparkles fx when in use.

Yes, it is called THE DOOMICORN.

azren
Feb 13, 2011





Yeah, I kinda went on a tangent, and also forgot about My Little Doomguy when I typed that bit.

FoolyCharged
Oct 11, 2012

Somebody call for an ant?



azren posted:

So there are definitely things I'm liking and disliking about this, having never played it, but there's one thing I want to talk about. They're using a trope that I am really sick of, though partly for personal reasons.

I really dislike the "Heaven (or equivalent) is just as bad as Hell" thing. Like, it was clever when it was first done, I suppose, but it usually gets used for nihilistic/overly grimdark "everyone is awful" purposes, and I find that most works that do the nihilistic grimdark thing are very proud of themselves for being "mature" and "edgy." We'll see where it goes from here, but misanthropy and nihilism* are good ways to sour me on something.

This also partly stems from my personal beliefs, but I suspect that's more than is really appropriate for this thread. I'm already talking about philosophy in a Doom game, that's silly enough.

Looking forward to this, though!

*I am aware of moral nihilism, and I don't have a problem with it, I'm referring to the more "everything is pointless and awful" kind.

I've generally found that whether that story beat sticks the landing with me or not depends very heavily on whether it stops at "the guy that looks like he's good is bad" or if it finishes the thought with "and the guy who looks like he's bad has good inside him" or not.

If heaven is going to war you need Crowly and Aziraphale.

White Coke
May 29, 2015


FoolyCharged posted:

I've generally found that whether that story beat sticks the landing with me or not depends very heavily on whether it stops at "the guy that looks like he's good is bad" or if it finishes the thought with "and the guy who looks like he's bad has good inside him" or not.

If heaven is going to war you need Crowly and Aziraphale.

Yeah, it's boring if the two sides are self-righteous evil and evil for the sake of it.

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012





FoolyCharged posted:

I've generally found that whether that story beat sticks the landing with me or not depends very heavily on whether it stops at "the guy that looks like he's good is bad" or if it finishes the thought with "and the guy who looks like he's bad has good inside him" or not.

If heaven is going to war you need Crowly and Aziraphale.

It's also relevant that, in Good Omens, angels are often dicks and Satan is really evil, but in addition to some devils being fairly pleasant, God almighty is good, even if God's sense of humor isn't to everyone's liking.

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009



I'm not sure how I feel about Eternal from this first update.

I thought Doom 2016 was one of the most boring and overrated games I've ever seen, much as I enjoyed the LP, and right away Eternal fixes a number of the qualms I had with it, with far more color and varied environments. Of course, it then introduces a whole host of new problems with a story that smacks of the Destiny games in vibe (and that is not a compliment).

TheGreatEvilKing
Mar 28, 2016



One of the great things about 2016 was that it didn't try to be a SERIOUS EPIC SAGA and was just about the Doomguy rampaging through hell shooting demons in the nads. Sure, there was a ton of codex lore about crap you didn't care about, but right away Doomguy throwing the tablet of exposition and grabbing the shotgun set the tone for the game.

Here the game opens about blabbing with hell priests and...showing the Doomguy's face, when the classic Doom developers were clear that you didn't see Doomguy's face because YOU were Doomguy.

The Door Frame
Dec 5, 2011

I don't know man everytime I go to the gym here there are like two huge dudes with raging high and tights snorting Nitro-tech off of each other's rock hard abs.

TheGreatEvilKing posted:

One of the great things about 2016 was that it didn't try to be a SERIOUS EPIC SAGA and was just about the Doomguy rampaging through hell shooting demons in the nads. Sure, there was a ton of codex lore about crap you didn't care about, but right away Doomguy throwing the tablet of exposition and grabbing the shotgun set the tone for the game.

Here the game opens about blabbing with hell priests and...showing the Doomguy's face, when the classic Doom developers were clear that you didn't see Doomguy's face because YOU were Doomguy.





TheGreatEvilKing
Mar 28, 2016



https://web.archive.org/web/20081024185346/http://rome.ro/smf/index.php/topic,1521.msg31827.html#msg31827

Quote from Romero there, you are the Doomguy.

Bruceski
Aug 21, 2007

The tools of a hero mean nothing without a solid core.



No mention of face there.

bladeworksmaster
Sep 6, 2010

Ok.



Hell yeah, Doom Eternal, my co-game of 2020 along with Hades. I enjoy pretty much every bit of this game even more than Doom 2016, which the more I played got slower and more boring and dominant strategy-laden, problems Eternal fixes in spades.

With that being said, I found that this game is more like a first person character action game than an FPS, which requires a certain mindset to really get behind compared to 2016.

wiegieman
Apr 22, 2010

Royalty is a continuous cutting motion





Maybe it's like Lone Wolf?

You are... Doom Guy!

RareAcumen
Dec 28, 2012






Well this is certainly a lot more of VIDEO GAME rear end video game than the 2016 game was, what with the colorful Borderlands explosion of ammo when you use the chainsaw and the chainsaw and heavy cannon just floating in the air for you to grab now.

90s Cringe Rock
Nov 29, 2006



All the overdesigned gameplay in Eternal does is make me want to play ultrakill tbh

Section Z
Oct 1, 2008

Wait, this is the Moon.
How did I even get here?

Pillbug

I think the one thing people on both sides of the "I can kill That One Enemy in 4.3 seconds and I agree with the helpless newbies it could use more polish" and "If you don't think this game is perfect guess you hate Devil May Cry too huh?" fence. Is that the game doesn't really approach it's own claims until you have the rocket launcher, which is also around the same time the rest of your toolkit completes.

For me, that is as much because of the amazing in hindsight realization that you can fire the rocket launcher more often than the super shotgun without fishing for an ammo reload Sure it is exactly ONE more time, but it helps the murder efficiency mindspace. It isn't wasteful to kill a zombie or imp with a rocket when you have (technically) more rockets than SSG ammo

RareAcumen posted:

Well this is certainly a lot more of VIDEO GAME rear end video game than the 2016 game was, what with the colorful Borderlands explosion of ammo when you use the chainsaw and the chainsaw and heavy cannon just floating in the air for you to grab now.
I love cartoony pickups, but I get the feeling they were made that way less for "Oldschool Style" reasons, and more that it is a band-aid over the fact it would be a real pain in the rear end to eyeball 2016's more subdued stationary pickups at the "Spawn another cacodemon right on top of you in the tutorial stage hope you read the prompt about grenade stuns" pace.

ThornBrain
Jan 25, 2011



(No Commentary Over Cutscenes)
(Commentary Over Cutscenes)

I'm not used to this color in a modern Doom game

liquidypoo
Aug 23, 2006

Chew on that... you overgrown son of a bitch.



I tried to treat the microwave beam as an alternate Glory Kill, and that sort of made it worthwhile. Definitely agree with the sentiment that the microwave beam is something you want to like, but can't since the implementation isn't quite there.

RareAcumen
Dec 28, 2012






I'm glad that you guys also agree on skeletons being better antagonists than zombies.

CzarChasm
Mar 14, 2009

Blah Blah Blah
Look at me
I'm the Goddamn Batman
Blah Blah Blah


Watching you play this reminds me of how much I loved the early game. Though I will admit to losing an embarrassing number of lives to the platforming puzzle at the end of this level. That last monkey bar swing to get to the island I would either miss the dash refill, or whiff the bar itself entirely.

I think I recall people referring to that as Super Mario Bullshit, and I have to say with the spinning chains of fire and falling platforms over lava, it's not entirely unfair.

I loved the slayer gates, as playing them is the textbook definition of Frantic. Constantly running to and from enemies, trying to dash around corners to get to some form of cover to avoid some fireball or another, ducking through teleporters to get across the map, almost always being just on the verge of dying before being able to chainsaw some revenant or zombie and start the pattern over again. It's maybe the most concentrated fun in the game.

Samovar
Jun 4, 2011

I'm not a hero...





OK, all this poo poo about King Novik, sentinels, why 'you can't kill these 'Priests' because of some nebulous ancient laws and decorum'.

This is what gets the story to be as boring as poo poo. They could have even had it, if only Doomguy you know, didn't give a gently caress about any of it, but no - he has to kneel and show fealty to whoever this twit is. BECAUSE HOW ELSE WOULD YOU KNOW IT'S EPIC?

AtomikKrab
Jul 17, 2010

Keep on GOP rolling rolling rolling rolling.


Samovar posted:

OK, all this poo poo about King Novik, sentinels, why 'you can't kill these 'Priests' because of some nebulous ancient laws and decorum'.

This is what gets the story to be as boring as poo poo. They could have even had it, if only Doomguy you know, didn't give a gently caress about any of it, but no - he has to kneel and show fealty to whoever this twit is. BECAUSE HOW ELSE WOULD YOU KNOW IT'S EPIC?

I honestly didn't mind it. Doomguy at a minimum hung out with these guys for some time, fought with them against the demons. Doomguy respects demon-punching

RareAcumen
Dec 28, 2012






AtomikKrab posted:

I honestly didn't mind it. Doomguy at a minimum hung out with these guys for some time, fought with them against the demons. Doomguy respects demon-punching

It all seems pretty consistent though still unnecessary.

Doomguy's here to kill demons, if you're telling him to stop killing demons, demon adjacent creatures, demon enablers/supporters/corrupted or summoned then you're loving dead kiddo. But since they seemed to have worked together he's just done with that guy. There're demons to kill, if he decides to get in the way of Doomguy doing so then he'll consider him a demon as well and will be put to the armblade like all the imps and gargoyles.

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Tiggum
Oct 23, 2007


Samovar posted:

OK, all this poo poo about King Novik, sentinels, why 'you can't kill these 'Priests' because of some nebulous ancient laws and decorum'.

This is what gets the story to be as boring as poo poo. They could have even had it, if only Doomguy you know, didn't give a gently caress about any of it, but no - he has to kneel and show fealty to whoever this twit is. BECAUSE HOW ELSE WOULD YOU KNOW IT'S EPIC?
If this game had come out when I was 14 and devouring every generic fantasy novel/trilogy/series I could get my hands on, I would have loved every detail. But I'm not 14 any more and this is some tedious bullshit.

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