|
I think North America is the exception and not the norm. It's also completely standard in Asia as well, there's a whole CV photo retouching industry.
AHH F/UGH fucked around with this message at 19:09 on Mar 1, 2021 |
#
?
Mar 1, 2021 19:04
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 25, 2024 07:45 |
|
|
Son of Rodney posted:Deffo a thing in Germany but might be on its way out. Stuff like birth date, family status (single/married) and hobbies are also common. I was quite surprised to learn that many jobs outside of Germany don't expect stuff like pictures, age, and all that. I'd love for that to become standard here, I even heard about some places not wanting gender, heritage or even names and it's sound so much better. Heritage? Why not ask if you were born a bastard while they're at it? The weirdest one I have seen while in your neigbouring country was a firm asking what your "military disposition" is, as an open ended question. Not sure if this is to hire veterans or to disclude people who are reservists or territorialists for whom they would be legally obliged to give time off for training on short notice. And yeah for all its niceties the German labour system can screw with people. Maybe not as much as some other systems. But it has its particular negatives. e: I wonder if you can ask how many children an applicant has in Germany. You know, to hire the perpetual bachelor instead.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2021 19:05
|
|
|
Bright Bart posted:Heritage? Why not ask if you were born a bastard while they're at it? The weirdest one I have seen while in your neigbouring country was a firm asking what your "military disposition" is, as an open ended question. Not sure if this is to hire veterans or to disclude people who are reservists or territorialists for whom they would be legally obliged to give time off for training on short notice. Heritage was perhaps the wrong word, it's more the nationality and for some reason birthplace (which naturally gives you a decent idea of what the heritage is). And no you can't really ask about personal stuff apart from small talk or open ended questions, but some recruiters might try to weasel the info out of you. Young woman being asked directly or indirectly about their family planing is not allowed but still happens. I'm sure that's not just a thing here though. Inzombiac posted:Good lord. Yup, but finding a person that "is a good fit" unfortunately still includes the "right" background in certain cases. From innocuous things such as "s/he looks confident" to "Salman huh, we're pretty catholic here.." it makes it pretty easy to profile people if you're so inclined. I wish they'd get rid of it, I know many people from arabic or other backgrounds who have huge dissadvantages because of their name or birthplace. Galewolf posted:This sounds like my home country, Turkey as well (it is common to follow European/German trends in there) with the mind-boggling trend of having 10 page CVs including hobbies, "career goals" (lol), and full on references. drat dude, this is legit illegal here and you are well in your rights to not answer or just lie, that sounds horrible. Hope you found something much better, what a prick. Also from what you're saying Turkey somehow manages to take the cake in useless information on a CV, our hobbies thing is mostly a few bullet points like "sports, video games, hentai" or something.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2021 19:57
|
|
|
Galewolf posted:This sounds like my home country, Turkey as well (it is common to follow European/German trends in there) with the mind-boggling trend of having 10 page CVs including hobbies, "career goals" (lol), and full on references. This is why I record interviews. I am brown and in the UK and have been asked these sorts of blatantly illegal questions before. Now I record interviews and the next time it happens, I’m reporting it.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2021 20:17
|
|
|
Son of Rodney posted:drat dude, this is legit illegal here and you are well in your rights to not answer or just lie, that sounds horrible. Hope you found something much better, what a prick. Also from what you're saying Turkey somehow manages to take the cake in useless information on a CV, our hobbies thing is mostly a few bullet points like "sports, video games, hentai" or something. Thank you, it still stings to this day because it was the first time I encountered such a thing (well, there were cases I suspected something like this happening in the background but also willing to give a benefit of the doubt) largely due to not ding anything about it. I made the research and the "suggestions" from Citizens Advice Bureau are require the offender's cooperation unless you have some cold hard evidence like e-mails. Like basically write them your complaint, be ready to be ignored or sent a dismissive letter but to be fair, it they stonewall you the courts can straight up decide that they, in fact, did discriminate against you. I needed that job because my visa is tied to my income as a business. I can't be on payroll so I can't even have service industry jobs and I was burning through my pitiful savings I worked for years to have a chance at moving to the UK. The colleague found me my first contract and sent me way more and an overall amazing guy so it boiled down to "do I want to jeopardize my existing and only source of money to fight a boomer in court?" the answer should've been "Yes" but I neither had the energy nor felt like a strong case beside my word against his. I have found much better jobs and was able to become financially somewhat stable after that thanks to the colleague sending more work in my way and now I can even generate my own leads and even pass more work to my other friends who recently moved to the UK. Turkish CVs are a wonder to sift through. People with selfies, people mentioning what political parties they voted for, people thinking that "walking" is a hobby, etc. The Turkish job market is so cutthroat and vile that employers can get away with "Only applicants from universities X Y and Z should apply" ads. As someone who had to hire engineers and technicians in my old job, it meant trying to sift through 8 pages of nonsense to find if they were able to operate a testing apparatus or check a box. Steakandchips posted:This is why I record interviews. I am brown and in the UK and have been asked these sorts of blatantly illegal questions before. Now I record interviews and the next time it happens, I’m reporting it. Sorry that you also experienced this, it really stayed with me, and still need to vent about it after almost a year. Recording the interviews is a good idea, and now with the majority of them happening on video calls it's much easier. Thank you for that, I actually never thought of recording interviews but I guess it's the smart thing to do. Galewolf fucked around with this message at 20:50 on Mar 1, 2021 |
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2021 20:47
|
|
|
Is this the right place to declare my arch enemy is anyone who uses return characters to pad white space to keep things together instead of using page breaks and orphan controls. Maybe I'm just the monster for using web view in Word on documents that are not meant to be and never will be printed but if I'm feeling beholden to page layout I would never resort to slamming the enter key till it looks right for this instance of time before someone writes "fart" 3 pages back and now an entire blank page of returns prints.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2021 21:25
|
|
|
Inzombiac posted:For the bulk of my job I have to use a system that was designed in 1992 and barely ever updated. Here are its crimes: This sounds a lot like the financial management system I use at work and it's a ridiculous pain in the rear end.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2021 21:46
|
|
|
zedprime posted:Is this the right place to declare my arch enemy is anyone who uses return characters to pad white space to keep things together instead of using page breaks and orphan controls. Web View is God's Own View because who the gently caress prints anything anymore? I'm the same way - if I'm designing a document for printing (I'm probably not) then I'll use Print View and make it look like it's supposed to in the final form. If I'm writing process documentation or something that is expected to forever and always be digital, then gently caress it, Web View it is! Now I can use images whatever size I want, etc. If some dinosaur wants to print it because they don't know how to use multiple monitors then, welp, too bad I guess.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2021 23:13
|
|
|
Galewolf posted:Turkish CVs are a wonder to sift through. People with selfies, people mentioning what political parties they voted for, people thinking that "walking" is a hobby, etc. The Turkish job market is so cutthroat and vile that employers can get away with "Only applicants from universities X Y and Z should apply" ads. As someone who had to hire engineers and technicians in my old job, it meant trying to sift through 8 pages of nonsense to find if they were able to operate a testing apparatus or check a box. I realize this may be outside the scope of the thread, but I am suddenly intensely curious how and/or why the Turkish job market is like that!
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2021 23:15
|
|
|
Zarin posted:Web View is God's Own View because who the gently caress prints anything anymore? Everyone in my office, constantly, that's who!
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2021 23:20
|
|
|
Thesaurus posted:Everyone in my office, constantly, that's who! I am so sorry 
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2021 23:29
|
|
|
Zarin posted:I realize this may be outside the scope of the thread, but I am suddenly intensely curious how and/or why the Turkish job market is like that! Honestly outside of fairly specific high prospect careers in the US it'd probably look a lot like that without laws. I'm sure most boomers responsible for hiring would absolutely love to see a picture, your age, political orientation, religious affiliations and at home obligations if they had the chance. We didn't have to make those questions illegal because no one bothered asking them.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2021 23:36
|
|
|
Yeah my office prints a ton of poo poo. Sometimes it's just better to have something tangible in front of you.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2021 23:47
|
|
|
I have a few printed reference sheets. Both of my monitors have full screen applications running at all times (one just plain isn't readable below full resolution, the other is a spreadsheet that I need to be able to see the whole width of), so a few things we have written up for processes I rarely do just got printed on the same couple pages and stapled together. Easier than flipping between multiple windows on the same screen, and no alternatives are gonna get funded.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2021 23:52
|
|
|
gotta print those emails, too
|
|
#
?
Mar 2, 2021 00:02
|
|
|
I'm a big fan of reverse printing. Scan and save and throw that poo poo out. What happens if we lose all our electronic files? That also means we've lost everything else and I quit becuase gently caress trying to put that nightmare back together.
|
|
#
?
Mar 2, 2021 00:08
|
|
|
I used to work as a developer for a company that had as many project managers in the department as they did developers, and they all had very strong opinions on every project in order to justify their non-jobs. It frequently got to the point where I'd just have to say "go away and argue this amongst yourselves and then get back to me when you've decided what you want" and then I'd sit around doing nothing all day.
|
|
#
?
Mar 2, 2021 00:10
|
|
|
Outrail posted:My favourites interview questions just turn the standard bullshit back on them. It's a good reminder that you're interviewing them as much as they're interviewing you and lets you know if you're just filling a hole or they really want you there. . Yeah I have some variations of these questions I usually ask and I don’t think I’ve gotten an acceptable answer to the ones related to growth from any job I’ve had since I started using them lol. If the interview is really thick with annoying useless bullshit suck my dick questions I ask increasing amounts of bullshit questions back to them. I got rejected after 4 interviews on my last job hunt because some VP was walking by the conference room I was being interviewed in and started throwing that stupid poo poo at me lol. The hiring manager totally wanted to bring me on board but I think I pissed of the “executive”. Dude literally just poked his head in and asked if this was an interview and took a seat lol
|
|
#
?
Mar 2, 2021 00:22
|
|
|
Zarin posted:I realize this may be outside the scope of the thread, but I am suddenly intensely curious how and/or why the Turkish job market is like that! Sure thing, a little derail wouldn't hurt and to be honest, it is one of the main reasons why I moved to the UK if not the reason. This is mostly my assumptions/opinions with some socio-political background thrown into the mix: Turkey adopted a more Americanised way of life in the 80's after the military coup in 1980. The violent crackdown on Combine this with the proliferation of universities (one thing Erdogan loves to is to open up universities in each city, sometimes more than one without much care about minutes like having enough professors or even campus buildings!), exceptionally high young unemployment (around 40% nowadays) and Turkish currency tanking gradually first then taking a nosedive in the last 5 years you end up in a incredibly high demand for jobs. The Turkish job market is divided into two sections, public employment is a loving bloated monster that employs 4.4 million people (5.5% of the entire population, close to 20 per cent of employment age) which is rife with political corruption to the degree of "don't even bother if you are not someone's cousin" so it leaves the private sector with incredible leverage against anyone seeking a job. Workplace abuse is so common in Turkey that ("Oh, there are thousands of people in line for this job if you don't like it?") combined with anti-worker laws and an ineffective judiciary system (good luck suing your employer and maybe getting some compensation in 5 years), many people internalise and, worse, embraces the crab bucket because everyone fears losing their jobs. Sexual harassment and rape against women, OHSA violations that will make even the most hardened OSHA GBS thread veteran to shiver and outright corruption (paying your salary in hand to show your employment as "minimum wage" to commit tax fraud was so common and probably still is) is so common that I haven't even started with the financial and actual work related problems. Financially, it's a losing battle regardless of your profession. I started as a QA Engineer in my previous job that paid 3500 TRY per month back in 2021, which was roughly 2000 USD (after taxes, exchange rate 1.86). Not too bad for a third world country (I was on 60k USD per year in my previous overseas job as a junior engineer so I was always somewhat paid way above the industry) After 6 years working in the same company that made me literally suicidal due to mobbing (which I tried to quit and shut down by my family and "friends" on the grounds of "grown man can't have depression"), getting regular yearly raises at 10-12% and getting promoted twice with 25% raises, I was being paid 9000 TRY a per month which was 1500 USD in 2019 (exchange rate 5.7) and currently at 1230 USD (exchange rate 7.2) So basically, I was earning way less as a Manager than what I was making when I was a Junior engineer with added bonus of having excessive stress and working 6 days a week at a minimum with at least 70 hours. And, let me tell you, this is an "incredibly good" job and I was always told how lucky I was. The current minimum wage for the hardest manual labor job is 392 USD which was less than 350 USD only one month ago. The Turkish lira is the fastest devalued money in the world on par with Argentinian or Brasilian currencies (with the exception of Venezuela) All this combines to a horrible work market that has the evilest slave-driving companies crushing hopes and dreams of people for literal peanuts (peanuts are the most expensive snacks) and expect you to be thankful for it. This causes people to do whatever they can to get ahead, so workplaces are usually people scheming against each other to the degree of actual violence. It's so toxic and vile that Syrian, Afghan or Iraqi war refugees consider dying on an inflatable raft to cross to Greece rather than to be "employed" in Turkey. The Turkish job market might look lustrous and shiny from the outside, with high-rise plazas of Istanbul to massive construction projects all over the world (after all, despite all this it's the world's 20th biggest economy) but it is rotten to the core. You can make incredible amounts of money by exploiting people which is what some people aim for (see, crab bucket) and there are also people who need to literally feed themselves and can't see an out so they just grit their teeth and carry on with a 72 hour workday to not being able to eat properly. The idea of things going wrong and having to go back to that is my literal nightmare and I am beyond grateful that I was able to move here (despite my UK thread "Bri-ish" shitposting might suggest) and carve a life out of myself. By the way, I'm still not fully working due to pandemic and whatnot but I am able to save more money in a year than I was able to earn in a year without working myself to death. Apologies for the tl;dr derail but my fingers kept typing despite my efforts to be more brief. Galewolf fucked around with this message at 00:38 on Mar 2, 2021 |
|
#
?
Mar 2, 2021 00:26
|
|
|
Thanks for effort post on Turkey. That is fascinating.Outrail posted:I'm a big fan of reverse printing. Scan and save and throw that poo poo out. We have about 15 years of files saved on one shared folder. As it would take years to recreate them if lost I suggested allocating $140 to put copies on an external hard drive (I know there's probably a cheaper way to do this but better than nothing.) Got mixed response of blank stares and suggestions that someone heard a rumor the shared folder is backed up, maybe, so why bother?
|
|
#
?
Mar 2, 2021 00:42
|
|
|
AHH F/UGH posted:Yeah my office prints a ton of poo poo. Sometimes it's just better to have something tangible in front of you. Sometimes, sure! Maybe I was being a bit cheeky about printing - I've done it myself. Even printed a document out once (because they designed it to be printed). Eventually my replacement and I rewrote the document in OneNote so we could add more pictures, explanations, links to related steps, and make it searchable. Certain things are still worth printing and pinning to the cubicle wall, though! Galewolf posted:
Holy poo poo that's fuckin' terrifying. Also fascinating, but mostly the first thing. Thank you for taking the time for the explainer. I'm sorry that our system served as the template for . . . that. I'm glad it sounds like things are working out for you!
|
|
#
?
Mar 2, 2021 01:02
|
|
|
Zarin posted:Holy poo poo that's fuckin' terrifying. Also fascinating, but mostly the first thing. Thank you for taking the time for the explainer. I'm sorry that our system served as the template for . . . that. It's not even scratching the surface but, yeah. I had great friendships with colleagues develop because of our common hatred of our manager and general toxic environment. You really know someone better when suffering together and the bonds you form during those times are stronger than like a normal workplace interaction I bothered my junior engineer enough to apply for the same visa and helped him to prepare the application so he moved here and we plan to expand our business together with another colleague waiting for his answer as well! They are both brilliant young people and deserve a chance at life and I'm happy to help as much as I can.
|
|
#
?
Mar 2, 2021 01:17
|
|
|
titty_baby_ posted:I've applied for multiple jobs with the state and county, and have been interviewed several times, and even though they are own policies say they should contact you when the positions been filled theyve only done it once. Ive even been in the position where I was emailing the guy who would be my supervisor, who kept saying "were still waiting on HR but your name is on the shortlist, check back next week" until he eventually ghosted me I had the state call me back once like 4-6 months later. I didn't get it, but they did call me back.
|
|
#
?
Mar 2, 2021 01:43
|
|
|
I got a message back from a company 14 months after applying and never having had an interview.
|
|
#
?
Mar 2, 2021 01:57
|
|
|
Hyrax Attack! posted:Thanks for effort post on Turkey. That is fascinating. Lol. This is exactly the backup system I'm implementing, but it's two hard drives and each one gets updated once a month. I'm giving one each to to two directors and if we lose everything it's not on me. Responsibility!
|
|
#
?
Mar 2, 2021 02:15
|
|
|
Outrail posted:Lol. This is exactly the backup system I'm implementing, but it's two hard drives and each one gets updated once a month. I'm giving one each to to two directors and if we lose everything it's not on me. Responsibility! there better be briefcases and handcuffs for those directors
|
|
#
?
Mar 2, 2021 02:18
|
|
|
Son of Rodney posted:Deffo a thing in Germany but might be on its way out. Stuff like birth date, family status (single/married) and hobbies are also common. I was quite surprised to learn that many jobs outside of Germany don't expect stuff like pictures, age, and all that. I'd love for that to become standard here, I even heard about some places not wanting gender, heritage or even names and it's sound so much better. it's illegal in the US to hire based on a lot of stuff, including age and family status. a lot of places still ask for an age on hiring paperwork, though. family status only comes up after you're hired for the tax paperwork. anyway germany sounds like it sucks
|
|
#
?
Mar 2, 2021 03:14
|
|
|
Son of Rodney posted:Deffo a thing in Germany but might be on its way out. Stuff like birth date, family status (single/married) and hobbies are also common. I was quite surprised to learn that many jobs outside of Germany don't expect stuff like pictures, age, and all that. I'd love for that to become standard here, I even heard about some places not wanting gender, heritage or even names and it's sound so much better. Yeah, I’ve heard of some companies where HR doesn’t disclose even a name of a candidate to the hiring manager before any interviews, just their qualifications. seems like a pretty good idea to me. I wonder what % of Americans will just toss a resume from somebody named Muhammad right into the trash without thinking about it. Probably more than I’d like to think. I had no idea there are places that expect a drat head shot on your resume, I would probably use Tobias Funke.
|
|
#
?
Mar 2, 2021 03:18
|
|
|
Nam Taf posted:He was an awesome PM, and we poached him back to the engineering side and now he's my boss and it rocks. Good PMs are worth their weight on gold Laserface posted:Our company wont publish an org chart because 'it might hurt peoples feelings to be on the bottom of the chart' It's me, the person without reports who does not realize that they're on the bottom of a chart.
|
|
#
?
Mar 2, 2021 03:24
|
|
|
Yes, unsurprisingly having a non-white name gets you trash binned and having a non-white voice over the phone will too. It poo poo but at least, sort of, its one place where companies know they're leaving money(sweat?) on the table by being racist so most are trying to work on it. I had a coworker announce, unprompted day one, thats she had been fired from her previous job for racism. She was let go very quickly soon after for, who could guess, racism. Afterwards all of us, which included everyone who reported her, had to take sensitivity classes ordered by the company. Yes, now is when this will help. Barudak fucked around with this message at 03:29 on Mar 2, 2021 |
|
#
?
Mar 2, 2021 03:24
|
|
|
TotalLossBrain posted:there better be briefcases and handcuffs for those directors For the dummy drives sure. The real drives were delivered last night
|
|
#
?
Mar 2, 2021 04:21
|
|
|
I work for a veterinarian and we are swamped for appointments. It's crazy how busy we are. We have a break between 12 and 3 with no appointments where we do nothing. We just sit around doing nothing. If our appointments are booked, I have to tell people that we can't see their pets. While we're sitting around doing nothing. Because that's how it's always been done and that's how it'll always be done.
|
|
#
?
Mar 2, 2021 04:37
|
|
|
Barudak posted:I got a message back from a company 14 months after applying and never having had an interview. I got a screening phone call from a company months after applying for a job. The first question they asked was why I wanted to work there and I couldn't even remember who they were. I didn't get called back for a proper interview.
|
|
#
?
Mar 2, 2021 04:48
|
|
|
Barudak posted:Afterwards all of us, which included everyone who reported her, had to take sensitivity classes ordered by the company. Yes, now is when this will help.
|
|
#
?
Mar 2, 2021 05:10
|
|
|
ArbitraryC posted:Has there been any studies on how this does more harm than good? It always feels like the best case is you're preaching to the choir and the more common case is people who aren't the intended audience feel a bit offended at the passive implications and push away from believing it's an issue at all. I'm not a source on this but my experience is it doesn't even work to get problematic people to loving cover their tracks better. Oh hey Bill, you do that training on sexual harrassment? Sure did you stud, now come here and give me a hug
|
|
#
?
Mar 2, 2021 05:15
|
|
|
Barudak posted:I'm not a source on this but my experience is it doesn't even work to get problematic people to loving cover their tracks better. Yeah it’s ridiculous to pretend like people are gonna abandoned their shittiness after being forced to sit through a few hours of bullshit. Like people proposing additional training to fix cops love of killing non whites, what’s the point other than throwing your hands up and saying you tried.
|
|
#
?
Mar 2, 2021 05:18
|
|
|
It's harder for people to sue the company for wrongful termination if they got sexual harassment training before they were fired.
|
|
#
?
Mar 2, 2021 05:22
|
|
|
This is a no fooling flowchart of a thing that happened to me Step 1 - Join new company Step 2 - Complete my first week onboarding including sexual harrassment training Step 3 - Boss comes by on Friday, "Hey, let's celebrate by going to the strip club, my treat"
|
|
#
?
Mar 2, 2021 05:31
|
|
|
Barudak posted:This is a no fooling flowchart of a thing that happened to me put that training to good use, avoid sexually harassing the strippers and have a good time!
|
|
#
?
Mar 2, 2021 07:41
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 25, 2024 07:45 |
|
|
Atillo posted:I got a screening phone call from a company months after applying for a job. The first question they asked was why I wanted to work there and I couldn't even remember who they were. I didn't get called back for a proper interview. Better when they don't identify themselves "Hi ilmucche, I'm calling about the job application you put in. Do you have a few minutes to discuss?" "Yeah of course" "What about the position did you find interesting?" "....Who are you?"
|
|
#
?
Mar 2, 2021 08:48
|
|
