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Hyrax Attack!
Jan 13, 2009

We demand to be taken seriously


We're going to be adding another person to our dept soon. Someone in an adjacent dept who is affable enough is likely going to apply. Just had a meeting with the person about running a tracking report, and they mentioned planning to set up subsequent meetings for future reports.

This meeting went five minutes as I walked them through finding the report I helped them set up last time, changing one field to be a different variable, then confirmed it's the exact same process for the other reports. From their frantic note taking for one of our most basic tasks, don't think this person would be a top choice for the role of admin of these reports.

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Yorkshire Pudding
Nov 24, 2006





Hyrax Attack! posted:

We're going to be adding another person to our dept soon. Someone in an adjacent dept who is affable enough is likely going to apply. Just had a meeting with the person about running a tracking report, and they mentioned planning to set up subsequent meetings for future reports.

This meeting went five minutes as I walked them through finding the report I helped them set up last time, changing one field to be a different variable, then confirmed it's the exact same process for the other reports. From their frantic note taking for one of our most basic tasks, don't think this person would be a top choice for the role of admin of these reports.

I take copious notes on just about everything and I am at least competent (most of the time). Maybe theyíre just making sure they donít forget it and have to ask again later.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos


Is note taking simple things bad now? Between cabin fever brain and getting old I'm going to outline any instructions more complicated than "turn coffee machine button on" if you don't give me a hand out.

Hyrax Attack!
Jan 13, 2009

We demand to be taken seriously


Sorry to clarify note taking is definitely good and usually a sign the person is paying attention and won't have the same question a week later. In this case I'd already emailed the person steps for the relatively simple process, and gone through it with them in a previous meeting during which they also took notes, so it was concerning the process hadn't clicked and that they wanted to schedule follow up meetings for the exact same task.

Zarin
Nov 11, 2008

I SEE YOU


I dunno, when training people I figure that it's a multi-step process.

The first one is that they watch me do it; they may or may not take notes, and may or may not remember how it goes.
The second step is that I watch them do it while they "drive" (click the buttons); again, they may or may not take notes and may or may not fully remember everything from this session.
The third and usually final step is where they are trying to do it on their own (with whatever documentation they have available) and they ask whatever clarifying questions they need to in order to update the documentation/further refine what I left them.


I'm currently in the unenviable position where I watched something last month, then this month when I'm like "okay let's do this" my trainer is just like "uhhh use the document" and . . . the document is bad. Like really bad. The notes don't line up with the pictures and the entire thing was clearly designed as a refresher for someone who was already incredibly familiar with the process and just needed a quick memory jog. Trying to learn from this thing is table-flipping rage inducing.

I also feel like every time I ask a question about the process and how it works, I don't get an answer and in fact spawn 3 additional questions that raise the issue about whether or not this has been done correctly for the last couple years

I hate not knowing what I'm doing, and just like the last desk I left, I deeply envy the person following me because learning the job is going to be INFINITELY easier for them than it is for me.

nexus6
Sep 2, 2011

If only you could see what I've seen with your eyes

Hyrax Attack! posted:

We're going to be adding another person to our dept soon. Someone in an adjacent dept who is affable enough is likely going to apply. Just had a meeting with the person about running a tracking report, and they mentioned planning to set up subsequent meetings for future reports.

This meeting went five minutes as I walked them through finding the report I helped them set up last time, changing one field to be a different variable, then confirmed it's the exact same process for the other reports. From their frantic note taking for one of our most basic tasks, don't think this person would be a top choice for the role of admin of these reports.



SkyeAuroline
Nov 12, 2020



Less immediately dumb poo poo, more actual question to maybe segue into dumb poo poo: after two failed hires (one outright failed and one in the process of failing) is it unreasonable to want to at least sit in on the interview of someone you're going to be partially responsible for?
I don't know what questions they're asking these candidates but it isn't the right ones.

Tetramin
Apr 1, 2006

I'ma buck you up.


SkyeAuroline posted:

Less immediately dumb poo poo, more actual question to maybe segue into dumb poo poo: after two failed hires (one outright failed and one in the process of failing) is it unreasonable to want to at least sit in on the interview of someone you're going to be partially responsible for?
I don't know what questions they're asking these candidates but it isn't the right ones.

Just ask the person doing the interviewing if when they feel like someoneís a good candidate if you can schedule a chat with the candidate IMO, assuming youíre not gonna be this persons like actual boss. I donít know what kinda issues youíre running into but thatís been our method. My boss does a couple phone interviews, then she schedules a time for me to just talk to the candidate about whatever I want. Iím new to this sort of thing so I mostly try to probe their knowledge and just do a vibe check.

After knowing from the last guys first day that we were not going to work well together, I am liking this way of doing things.

Super Waffle
Sep 25, 2007

I'm a hermaphrodite and my parents (40K nerds) named me Slaanesh, THANKS MOM

SkyeAuroline
Nov 12, 2020




As with all necessary positions.


Tetramin posted:

Just ask the person doing the interviewing if when they feel like someone’s a good candidate if you can schedule a chat with the candidate IMO, assuming you’re not gonna be this persons like actual boss. I don’t know what kinda issues you’re running into but that’s been our method. My boss does a couple phone interviews, then she schedules a time for me to just talk to the candidate about whatever I want. I’m new to this sort of thing so I mostly try to probe their knowledge and just do a vibe check.

After knowing from the last guys first day that we were not going to work well together, I am liking this way of doing things.

They've apparently already reached a decision, so rip there. Issues are that whoever is vetting these candidates is doing a dogshit job of it. Last one walked off at the end of the day day 1 and never came back, after voicing no complaints and not even doing anything besides training and a little practice. Second to last who's still with us bullshit a ton of excel and data entry experience but didn't know what filters are, how to search in Office, or how to type above 10 WPM instead of watching TV shows on her phone.

If I get someone now and they don't work out I'm not going to get someone else. So, having them work the first time would be nice.

ClothHat
Mar 2, 2005

ASK ME ABOUT MY LOVE OF THE LUMPEN-GOBLITARIAT
protip: trust no links I post


SkyeAuroline posted:

They've apparently already reached a decision, so rip there. Issues are that whoever is vetting these candidates is doing a dogshit job of it. Last one walked off at the end of the day day 1 and never came back

I'm guessing whoever is doing the interviewing only has a vague idea what the actual job entails, and the job description posted for the opening is just full of generic oatmeal about being a team player, and a go-getter who can hit the ground running instead of talking about what the job is.

SkyeAuroline
Nov 12, 2020



ClothHat posted:

I'm guessing whoever is doing the interviewing only has a vague idea what the actual job entails, and the job description posted for the opening is just full of generic oatmeal about being a team player, and a go-getter who can hit the ground running instead of talking about what the job is.

That's the kicker - he absolutely knows because he's the same manager I've talked about here before, who's been present on this project from the start and gotten into the technical side plenty with and without me. He knows. He's just poo poo at picking.

Zarin
Nov 11, 2008

I SEE YOU


THE ENTIRE DOCUMENTATION PACKAGE FOR THIS DESK SUCKS poo poo AND I HOPE WHOEVER WROTE IT AND SMUGLY ADDED IT TO THEIR PDP ENDS UP HOMELESS, gently caress

Edit: *ahem* I'm better now.

I'M NOT ACTUALLY BETTER AND I WON'T BE UNTIL I'VE LEARNED THE JOB, CAN QUIT RELYING ON OTHER PEOPLE, AND HAVE WRITTEN DOCUMENTATION THAT A CHILD CAN FOLLOW SO I CAN GO GET A DIFFERENT JOB

boar guy
Jan 25, 2007



had a two and a half hour meeting to refine what ended up being a 200 word email, good stuff

that creative process. boy is it rewarding

Yorkshire Pudding
Nov 24, 2006





SkyeAuroline posted:

As with all necessary positions.


They've apparently already reached a decision, so rip there. Issues are that whoever is vetting these candidates is doing a dogshit job of it. Last one walked off at the end of the day day 1 and never came back, after voicing no complaints and not even doing anything besides training and a little practice. Second to last who's still with us bullshit a ton of excel and data entry experience but didn't know what filters are, how to search in Office, or how to type above 10 WPM instead of watching TV shows on her phone.

If I get someone now and they don't work out I'm not going to get someone else. So, having them work the first time would be nice.

I worked at a grocery store at 16, then at 19 went to college and got a job at a different grocery store. Cashiered for 3 months before they moved me to Floor Manager, which is literally just walking around with the key to fix peopleís mistakes and poo poo. It was mostly full rear end adults doing that job, and they treated me like some sort of prodigy for getting promoted so quickly. At one point there was a rumor that I got promoted because I was somehow related to one of the Waltonís (which is why I was making $8 an hour and going to a state school, of course). I couldnít convince them that I had got promoted because I was the only one who showed up on time and just sat at my register for 8 hours doing my job.

I always thought ďthis place only has such low standards because itís some po dunk grocery storeĒ. Boy was I wrong.

ElectroMagneticJosh
Oct 13, 2006

Lets Volt In!!


Scientastic posted:

Because regardless of the bonus structure, employees will instantly find the quickest and easiest way to game the system and get the most out of it for the least work. Which is, in fact, the correct ethical approach. So you have to make it so that the sales commission broadly aligns with the company goals, otherwise the sales team will achieve their targets to the detriment of the wider company.

We have a couple of glaring issues with our bonus structure, and the people higher up in the business seem completely puzzled as to why the sales teams are hitting their targets, but the directors (who are targeted differently) are not.

I worked for a company that had a quarterly and yearly bonus. Quarterly bonus was based on 4 areas with a target and then stretch goals. To get paid you needed to reach a stretch goal in one area while making target in all the rest - the more stretch goals you made the higher your bonus but, even if you made the top stretch goal in 3 of the 4, you would get nothing if one was under target. It was easy to make target though and at least a stretch or two - the hard workers could regularly max out their bonus. The yearly bonus was based on those same areas measured over the year and a couple of compliance things that had to be in place (you would have to be an idiot or extremely unethical to fail the compliance side).

After a couple of years the bosses realized that people who nailed a couple of quarters could then coast for the rest of the year and still get a decent annual bonus. So they tweaked it - now, in order to qualify for the annual bonus, you would need to also have got a bonus (didn't matter how small) in 3 of the 4 quarters.

However this created a new problem. Near the end of each quarter staff would sometimes hold work over for the next quarter if they had already achieved that bonus - just to ensure they could spread their work out. So they came up with a "minimum weekly contribution" of various things you had to achieve in 7 of the weeks each quarter. This acted as a gate - no MWC - no bonus for the quarter regardless of stretch results.

This led to more tweaks and changes until the start of new financial year we were all put on a two day training course. The point of the training? To teach us how this year's bonus structure would work. After it concluded most people still didn't understand it and even management weren't clear.

Fortunately I moved to a different department with clear KPIs that only took a few minutes of reading to understand.

Dr.D-O
Jan 3, 2020


I've been working on a research project that my supervisor assigned to me for literal years.

I finished the report last week and submitted it to her only for her to tell me that she doesn't understand the project. Not that my work wasn't understandable, but that she didn't understand the project she had assigned me in the first place. So now I have a project I've wasted days of my life working on that is dead in the water.

This happens all the drat time and is infuriating.

Armitag3
Mar 15, 2020

Forget it Jake, it's cybertown.


Dr.D-O posted:

I've been working on a research project that my supervisor assigned to me for literal years.

I finished the report last week and submitted it to her only for her to tell me that she doesn't understand the project. Not that my work wasn't understandable, but that she didn't understand the project she had assigned me in the first place. So now I have a project I've wasted days of my life working on that is dead in the water.

This happens all the drat time and is infuriating.

Should have used Agile.

goatface
Dec 5, 2007

I had a video of that when I was about 6.

I remember it being shit.




Grimey Drawer

You have been working on it for years, could you not explain it to them?

Or was it a full "I don't get it and am not interested in getting it, why did you waste your time on this" rebuttal?

Dr.D-O
Jan 3, 2020


goatface posted:

You have been working on it for years, could you not explain it to them?

Or was it a full "I don't get it and am not interested in getting it, why did you waste your time on this" rebuttal?

Yeah, basically. She just refused to listen to any explanation. It is a very straightforward project, she just doesn't give a poo poo.

kntfkr
Feb 11, 2019

GOOSE FUCKER


I have a coworker who sends emails with important item information under subjects like "Update" and "new items" and "following up" and it makes me so mad I feel like I'm gonna explode here.

Only registered members can see post attachments!

poisonpill
Nov 8, 2009

The only way to get huge fast is to insult a passing witch and hope she curses you with Beast-strength.



Had a call yesterday around noon where one of the senior people was (in office) cutting up apples and whatever for their lunch. Multiple people said ďCan everyone please go on mute?Ē A few times but they never did, and the entire meeting was drowned out by the extremely loud sound of a knife slamming into a plate

Batterypowered7
Aug 8, 2009

The mist that chills you keeps me warm.



We're switching from Chrome to Edge Chromium as the preferred browser at my workplace.

Suspicious Lump
Mar 11, 2004


I have a question guys:
How the gently caress do I deal with people who have checked out? You know the kind, the ones who have a job for life (I work in what is essentially government), they're cruising along not wanting to rock the boat, change the status quo or do anything beyond the bare minimum?

Here's my rant:
I've come along like a bumbling fool with a twinkle in my eye fresh out of university and I've hit across a wall called "other department head" who is paid a fuckload yet they do little, won't accept advice and keep diverting when I point out the loving obvious: just because I wrote a pipeline to process the data does not mean you should not perform proper QC. But apparently it's too hard because oh no the sequence is too long. Mother fucker we're paying for specialised subscription software so you can do this poo poo because you're too dumb to learn linux and command line tools. You're also too stupid to realise the software is built into the GUI software to simplify the work!

gently caress. I was tired of my boss hoping they would retire or die but then I realised she's actually trying.

A Festivus Miracle
Dec 19, 2012

I have come to discourse on the profound inequities of the American political system.



You're complaining about people not giving a gently caress about you giving a gently caress. The solution is obvious: stop giving a gently caress

SirPablo
May 1, 2004




Pillbug

Had a two hour meeting yesterday that resulted in my boss deciding/learning "yes, communication is important to solving issues and keeping projects moving along". And it also gave me a mondo headache for the rest of the day so I couldn't even get anything else done.

Suspicious Lump
Mar 11, 2004


A Festivus Miracle posted:

You're complaining about people not giving a gently caress about you giving a gently caress. The solution is obvious: stop giving a gently caress

People's health and wellbeing gets affected

Dongsturm
Feb 17, 2012


Suspicious Lump posted:

I have a question guys:
How the gently caress do I deal with people who have checked out? You know the kind, the ones who have a job for life (I work in what is essentially government), they're cruising along not wanting to rock the boat, change the status quo or do anything beyond the bare minimum?



they are probably annoying other people as well. usually, people network (the social kind) around them. Find the network, get the job done.

Also, never explain details to management, just say it's almost finished. And never show off a half-working project, it's all or nothing.



A Festivus Miracle posted:

You're complaining about people not giving a gently caress about you giving a gently caress. The solution is obvious: stop giving a gently caress

But mainly this. you won't be blamed when the project fails, so don't try hard. Take advantage of the training, then leave for a real job.

Hyrax Attack!
Jan 13, 2009

We demand to be taken seriously


Dr.D-O posted:

I've been working on a research project that my supervisor assigned to me for literal years.

I finished the report last week and submitted it to her only for her to tell me that she doesn't understand the project. Not that my work wasn't understandable, but that she didn't understand the project she had assigned me in the first place. So now I have a project I've wasted days of my life working on that is dead in the water.

This happens all the drat time and is infuriating.

Yikes that is frustrating.

froglet
Nov 12, 2009

You see, the best way to Stop the Boats is a massive swarm of autonomous armed dogs. Strafing a few boats will stop the rest and save many lives in the long term.

You can't make an Omelet without breaking a few eggs. Vote Greens.


Suspicious Lump posted:

People's health and wellbeing gets affected

Yeah I run into this problem a bit - sometimes not giving a gently caress effectively means I'm being an arsehole to a stranger. Which doesn't seem fair, so I try not to do it too often.

Deki
May 12, 2008








My workplace just sent out a notice saying they're removing the ability to compress your schedule to 4 days a week or have your work start before 7 am, and are giving us a whole week to figure out what's up.


We've had retention issues for years and this is gonna piss a lot of people off who only have stuck around because of the flexibility

SkyeAuroline
Nov 12, 2020



Deki posted:

My workplace just sent out a notice saying they're removing the ability to compress your schedule to 4 days a week or have your work start before 7 am, and are giving us a whole week to figure out what's up.


We've had retention issues for years and this is gonna piss a lot of people off who only have stuck around because of the flexibility

Sounds like when we pushed back start times for our flex schedules and then did away with them entirely, when the flex schedule was the core benefit and our work didn't (and still doesn't) depend on communicating with any other departments.

Hell, my work is offset by multiple time zones.

ben shapino
Nov 22, 2020



I'M ONLY HERE TO BE AN ASSHOLE, YOU HAVE NOTHING TO GAIN BY READING ANYTHING I POST


ASK ME HOW ANGER MANAGEMENT THERAPY IS GOING YOU PIECE OF SHIT


Deki posted:

My workplace just sent out a notice saying they're removing the ability to compress your schedule to 4 days a week or have your work start before 7 am, and are giving us a whole week to figure out what's up.


We've had retention issues for years and this is gonna piss a lot of people off who only have stuck around because of the flexibility

lol that's straight up something everyone should quit over

ArbitraryC
Jan 28, 2009
Pick a number, any number

Pillbug

Deki posted:

My workplace just sent out a notice saying they're removing the ability to compress your schedule to 4 days a week or have your work start before 7 am, and are giving us a whole week to figure out what's up.


We've had retention issues for years and this is gonna piss a lot of people off who only have stuck around because of the flexibility
I feel like whenever Iíve done jobs with flexible schedules mostly it meant that there were office leaches flexing their schedule onto other people. Claiming to come in early or stay late so they could have 3 day weekends but likely just finding opportunities to sit on their phone when no one was around. It very much becomes a plight of the common scenario and itís not a huge surprise if management eventually gets sick of it and takes it away from everyone.

I mean it sounds like your workplace sucked anyways if retention was already a huge deal so maybe no one was abusing it, but someone always is.

Hyrax Attack!
Jan 13, 2009

We demand to be taken seriously


SkyeAuroline posted:

Sounds like when we pushed back start times for our flex schedules and then did away with them entirely, when the flex schedule was the core benefit and our work didn't (and still doesn't) depend on communicating with any other departments.

Hell, my work is offset by multiple time zones.

Lol my work was dead set against WFH but for over a year it's unintentionally been a huge benefit. Hey everyone, if you work here you have no commute, can have whatever music or movies playing, and zero dress code.

Tetramin
Apr 1, 2006

I'ma buck you up.


ArbitraryC posted:

I feel like whenever Iíve done jobs with flexible schedules mostly it meant that there were office leaches flexing their schedule onto other people. Claiming to come in early or stay late so they could have 3 day weekends but likely just finding opportunities to sit on their phone when no one was around. It very much becomes a plight of the common scenario and itís not a huge surprise if management eventually gets sick of it and takes it away from everyone.

I mean it sounds like your workplace sucked anyways if retention was already a huge deal so maybe no one was abusing it, but someone always is.

But with a flexible schedule if someone isnít doing their share of work that should become visible to the boss eventually. If someoneís doing enough work to not raise any flags and spends some time dicking around, who cares?

ArbitraryC
Jan 28, 2009
Pick a number, any number

Pillbug

Tetramin posted:

But with a flexible schedule if someone isnít doing their share of work that should become visible to the boss eventually. If someoneís doing enough work to not raise any flags and spends some time dicking around, who cares?

They donít raise any flags because they just offload their work onto everyone else and management usually doesnít care if stuff gets done. If everyone did what they do eventually management does start noticing because not enough stuff is getting done, and thatís when it gets axed.

Barudak
May 7, 2007



Im probably a poo poo manager but my philosophy is "if all our goals are met/exceeded and we don't sound like we don't know what we're doing in meetings with higher ups, I do not give a single solitary poo poo if all of you go into the bathroom at the office and do black tar heroin 4 days a week until you pass out, just don't tell me about it or get caught because then I have to address that"

That said if I have people who are like "gently caress me Im burnt out" Im going to address that, my ideal is my whole team can collectively optimize and maximize loving around time.

Armitag3
Mar 15, 2020

Forget it Jake, it's cybertown.


Barudak posted:

Im probably a poo poo manager but my philosophy is "if all our goals are met/exceeded and we don't sound like we don't know what we're doing in meetings with higher ups, I do not give a single solitary poo poo if all of you go into the bathroom at the office and do black tar heroin 4 days a week until you pass out, just don't tell me about it or get caught because then I have to address that"

That said if I have people who are like "gently caress me Im burnt out" Im going to address that, my ideal is my whole team can collectively optimize and maximize loving around time.

"Buddy, you got management written all over you! What a go-getter!"

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SkyeAuroline
Nov 12, 2020



Hyrax Attack! posted:

Lol my work was dead set against WFH but for over a year it's unintentionally been a huge benefit. Hey everyone, if you work here you have no commute, can have whatever music or movies playing, and zero dress code.

Caveat as the sole "in-office" advocate here, WFH really does not work for everyone. I don't like in-office work but I crater fast at home and lack all of my accessibility setup and the space or finances to duplicate it. (Hell I can't even find a desk chair for home that doesn't cause me pain, and I'm already up in Steelcase/HM territory.)

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