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Yorkshire Pudding
Nov 24, 2006



AHH F/UGH posted:

I’d rather make $50k working 40 hours a week than I would want to make $200k working 80 hours a week unless my job was not a real job but schmoozing and traveling and being a “international manager” or some bullshit

Then again I don’t have any expensive hobbies and/or drug addictions

I have a friend that makes 2x what I do but works 80+ hours a week and his brain is broken at 30. Would not trade my job for his.

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Yorkshire Pudding
Nov 24, 2006



kecske posted:

my loving boss loves to schedule 'offline meetings' where he can make a bunch of requests without having any responsibility for the outcomes because he absolutely will not put anything in writing.

also a few years ago he changed his own job title away from projects manager because he didn't want to deal with the responsibilities that his old title had, and spent months firing off emails to the tune of 'well as you can tell by my title none of that is down to me'. Like contractors would turn up on site asking for him by name and he would hide in his office and refuse to come out lmao

At a previous job I had a boss who I didn’t trust, so every little thing that was asked of me I followed up with an email saying “just confirming you asked me to do X today. What’s the deadline on that?”

About 80% of the time they just never replied so I didn’t do it.

Yorkshire Pudding
Nov 24, 2006



At a previous job I was basically on my way out (had another offer I hadn’t yet accepted) but I had my annual review and wanted to bring it up and allow them to counter offer.

My review went perfect with the exception of some very minor things (“sometimes at meetings people feel like they don’t have your full attention”. Yes, that is correct when it’s not my department being discussed). At the end my boss says “normally this would be where we discuss pay raises, but because of the pandemic we cannot do that”. I said “that’s fine. I’m actually going to leave”. I later learned that, despite being unable to offer me even a modest raise they had hired a new person to do podcasts (???) for our company.

So, I made the right choice.

Yorkshire Pudding
Nov 24, 2006



Hyrax Attack! posted:

We're going to be adding another person to our dept soon. Someone in an adjacent dept who is affable enough is likely going to apply. Just had a meeting with the person about running a tracking report, and they mentioned planning to set up subsequent meetings for future reports.

This meeting went five minutes as I walked them through finding the report I helped them set up last time, changing one field to be a different variable, then confirmed it's the exact same process for the other reports. From their frantic note taking for one of our most basic tasks, don't think this person would be a top choice for the role of admin of these reports.

I take copious notes on just about everything and I am at least competent (most of the time). Maybe they’re just making sure they don’t forget it and have to ask again later.

Yorkshire Pudding
Nov 24, 2006



SkyeAuroline posted:

As with all necessary positions.


They've apparently already reached a decision, so rip there. Issues are that whoever is vetting these candidates is doing a dogshit job of it. Last one walked off at the end of the day day 1 and never came back, after voicing no complaints and not even doing anything besides training and a little practice. Second to last who's still with us bullshit a ton of excel and data entry experience but didn't know what filters are, how to search in Office, or how to type above 10 WPM instead of watching TV shows on her phone.

If I get someone now and they don't work out I'm not going to get someone else. So, having them work the first time would be nice.

I worked at a grocery store at 16, then at 19 went to college and got a job at a different grocery store. Cashiered for 3 months before they moved me to Floor Manager, which is literally just walking around with the key to fix people’s mistakes and poo poo. It was mostly full rear end adults doing that job, and they treated me like some sort of prodigy for getting promoted so quickly. At one point there was a rumor that I got promoted because I was somehow related to one of the Walton’s (which is why I was making $8 an hour and going to a state school, of course). I couldn’t convince them that I had got promoted because I was the only one who showed up on time and just sat at my register for 8 hours doing my job.

I always thought “this place only has such low standards because it’s some po dunk grocery store”. Boy was I wrong.

Yorkshire Pudding
Nov 24, 2006



vyst posted:

At least you're not salaried but still have to document your hours like I do.

The one megacorp job I had did this. They were tracking project hours, so I still had to mark down things every day. Some days I would have 3 hours of meetings that didn’t apply to any particular project so I’d just pick whichever one I wanted.

Yorkshire Pudding
Nov 24, 2006



Prism Mirror Lens posted:

Spent this morning calculating how long I could live if I just quit my job. When the gently caress is UBI coming

One of my buddies, who makes way more than me as an engineer or something, spent a few months making a giant LED clock that counts down to his retirement. We’re both 30.

Sometimes I think about my choice to pursue a career in a low paying field, but I’ve never once conceived the need to have a 5 foot glowing red countdown to retirement.

Yorkshire Pudding
Nov 24, 2006



Ugly In The Morning posted:

I wouldn’t say “miss most” but it’s not like they’re totally wrong for everyone. My commute is 100 percent decompression time and it’s why I try to aim for a 20-30 minute drive to/from work. I absolutely missed having that transition from work to home/home to work when I did the WFH thing like ten years ago.

This has big “guy sitting in his parked car in the driveway to avoid seeing his family just a few minutes longer” energy.

Yorkshire Pudding
Nov 24, 2006



Imagined posted:

The difference is "I'm a useless piece of poo poo" vs "You're a useless piece of poo poo".

I mean we’re all just trying to feed our families and keep a roof over our head in this hell world, but you can’t exactly get defensive if you say “my job sucks and I barely work at all and it produces nothing of value but I make 150k” and then someone else says “I barely crack 50k annually but I enjoy my work and it has a tangible, visible value add to the people around me and I wouldn’t trade that for more money”

Yorkshire Pudding
Nov 24, 2006



mllaneza posted:

I had one place stiff me on pay. Two hapless entrepreneurs trying to do Door Dash in 1988 ran out of money. I finished my sift and asked for my check. They said they didn't have the money. There's one critical mistake on their part: I was still holding my cash bag with, coincidentally, a paycheck's worth of cash in it. We worked it out, I got a check written for enough over what I was due to cover the fee from a check cashing place and they got cash.

My first job at 15 was washing dishes for a restaurant owned by a guy who had started like 8 failed restaurants in 10 years, and this was his latest venture. The place was a dumpster fire, and I worked like 3 months before I quit. I was even one of the last starting crew to quit, as almost the entire kitchen quit the first month.

I went back through my paychecks and saw they owed me like $500 (and this was when minimum wage was $5.15). I told them and they basically said to gently caress off. Fortunately they had invested in this ridiculous clock in system that printed receipts every time you clocked in/out, even for a ten-minute break. I had a stack of receipts with every hour I had worked, so I walked in and told them I was coming back with a lawyer if they didn’t write a check then and there. Which worked, because the owner was already fighting like 3 lawsuits.

I’m always glad that happened at my first job, because it too me to never trust my company and always look out for myself first.

Yorkshire Pudding
Nov 24, 2006



Imagined posted:

It's been scientifically proven that more money DOES equal more happiness UNTIL you get to more than about (the equivalent of) $75,000 USD per year.

This stuff always reminds me of the articles from 20 years ago that would be stuff like “does owning a horse make you healthier?” Or “why do Europeans live longer than Americans? Is the Mediterranean diet the answer?”

Turns out if you’re rich enough to own horses you have good healthcare and preventative medicine, and Europeans don’t die at 63 from heart attacks because they have socialized healthcare and don’t work 70 hours a week for their whole lives.

Yorkshire Pudding
Nov 24, 2006



I taught English as a Foreign Language for 5 years, including to advanced college students. I always made a deal that if they could read The Chaos correctly in one try I’d pass them automatically.

https://ncf.idallen.com/english.html

Yorkshire Pudding
Nov 24, 2006



I told my previous job (fully remote for a megacorp) I couldn’t do a big chunk of my work without a 2nd monitor. They just had me stop doing that work.

Yorkshire Pudding
Nov 24, 2006



Space Kablooey posted:

Not sure if it's worse or better than that infamous it job posting

Not sure what you’re referring to, so please post it

Yorkshire Pudding
Nov 24, 2006



Space Kablooey posted:

Sorry I was on my phone and couldn't remember any specific details at the time.



Oh gently caress yeah. This rules.

Yorkshire Pudding
Nov 24, 2006



AHH F/UGH posted:

We had a social media manager employee at our company too, until he quit because in his cubicle there was a dry erase board with his schedule:

Mon: Post on Facebook
Tues: Post on Insta and Facebook
Wed: Post on Insta
Thur: Post on Insta and Facebook
Fri: Post on Insta and Facebook

At a previous job we had an intern doing just this. She was really nice and stuff, but this was her whole job for a small nonprofit.

I got an offer for more money and was on the fence, finally decided to take it. Right after I announced my resignation I learned they hired her on, full time, to do the same thing at $500 less than my annual salary.

I had been there 3 years, had a masters degree in that exact field, and had been the only person to stay
on and hold the company together when every other one of the 5 employees quit within 4 months of each other.

I definitely made the right call.

Yorkshire Pudding
Nov 24, 2006



At my old job we never really fired people, though lots were kind of forced out. We had a pretty documented system of “marks”, where you’d get one for being X-minutes late, not doing specific duties before close, so forth. They reset after like a month or a quarter maybe?

Anyway, if you got three of them, during the next shift when you clocked in all the employees would go in the back, and the manager would pull the person who had the marks forward. Then the manager would slide out The Egg. It was like one of those stupid concave chairs but it was sheer white and it had sort of a sliding hood, like those space capsules from Dragonball Z. The employee would then get in, the manager would shut the door, and all of us would chant “Naughty children go in the egg! Naughty children go in the egg!” For about 5 minutes.

Kind of unorthodox, but it usually worked.

Yorkshire Pudding
Nov 24, 2006



Baconroll posted:

We had an 'inspirational' working from home email from an executive talking about the $300000 'green' off-grid power he had installed at his country home so he could work from home there reliably.

Around the same time we found out there would be no payrises or bonuses.

I can understand their desire to stick their snouts deep in the trough and take everything, but tone-deafness of it all is hard to grasp.

My girlfriend is in healthcare and when the pandemic started her hospitals CEO sent a pre-recorded message, filmed in his lavish dining room, which the title “we’re in this together”.

Like you, I’m not surprised they’re doing this stuff, just how bad they are at it.

Yorkshire Pudding
Nov 24, 2006




My aunt was an exec for a long time and mentioned that her former company (big trucking/transpo Corp) is forcing every office worker back in ASAP cause they discovered like half of their middle management had been working 2 jobs for years.

Like the exact same job, as in pre-covid, they were district managers at two different companies and pulling in 2 six-figure salaries. For years.

Yorkshire Pudding
Nov 24, 2006



Pekinduck posted:

For grad students, any professor along the way pretty much has the ability to permanently end their academic career. This gives professors the impression they can treat students however they want, because they can, and the toxicity often extends to how they treat staff.

My grad school had a bunch of poo poo happen with this one professor that was baffling and horrible (not my department luckily).

He got caught literally using his grad students as slave labor, including making them come to his house and bucket flood water out of his basement on a Saturday at like 1 am. They were all foreign students on education visas, and they all had text messages of him saying “get here now or I’ll fire you and you’ll get deported”.

He also had a big scandal where some of his grad students developed a novel medical process to treat some medical condition using eye drops instead of surgery. He claimed the patent as his own and sold it to Mexico for several million dollars. He claimed any work done in his lab was his property. The school was mad, but only because they were trying to make the same argument that they owned the patent.

I don’t think he got fired.

Yorkshire Pudding
Nov 24, 2006



Outrail posted:

Anyone who's more vested in their title beyond 'What title will make people listen to me so I can do my job' is most likely a useless fuckwit.

I've started asking people what title they want when we make the job offer. Nobody cares.

In past jobs it was customary to change your title depending on the client/email recipient/amount of coffee consumed/phase of the moon.

Unfortunately, it matters a lot when looking for new jobs. I was a “Program Assistant” for years, and when a bunch of staff left and I picked up new duties I requested I be called “Program Coordinator” (along with a pay raise).

I have a LinkedIn profile I only engage with when starting new jobs, and an Indeed resume I only update when I get new titles or whatever.

Literally a week after I updated both those things from “Assistant” to “Coordinator” I started getting headhunted. Ended up finding a new job during Covid (which sucked but paid more), and that job led me to my current job which pays even more and loving rocks.

So yeah, titles within companies vary in their meaning, but always push for a better title cause it’s a big help when you’re looking for new work.

Yorkshire Pudding
Nov 24, 2006



deep dish peat moss posted:

What's up with that, anyway? "Send us a comprehensive list of everything you did today every day" has become a go-to for every remote job. The same employers never cared what people were accomplishing when they were in-office and they tend to demand it in such awkward formats (like that story of having to send it to 6 different places) or in such absolute detail that it suddenly becomes a major time sink. Are they just trying to force stats to show lowered productivity (b/c of all the time spent cataloging my job description for these people who hired me to do it) so they can clean house and hire cheaper people because it's remote?

My semi-remote job with an office of like 7 employees started this. They sent out an excel sheet with a list of all of the different codes to log. And there are more then 50 items.

Checking email is one, but emailing clients is another, and emailing clients about specific projects is another.

Yorkshire Pudding
Nov 24, 2006



Hyrax Attack! posted:

drat that owns.

Rewatching office space in background today. Peter gets his own cubicle with walls high enough to have shelves. Lumbergh has a BS in Physics from MIT instead of zero experience in the field of which he oversees his workers. They have wall decorations instead of endless beige. Dunno why Peter was upset.

Office Space, while still very good, aged so poorly in the satire it was supposed to be.

Oh wah, Peter has a job with benefits and can afford an apartment alone. But his boss sucks and he works in a cubicle? How difficult.

Yorkshire Pudding
Nov 24, 2006



Outrail posted:

Haha

HAHAHAHAHA

HAAAAA HAAAAA HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

I mean, you might help people but the NFP world is pretty loving toxic. Stay away from smaller companies or any role you're less than two levels of contact from the board of directors.

As someone who’s been in nonprofit for 10 years, this is about as true as any other field. Some organizations suck, some are good. I worked for a good small one and a lovely big one, now I work at a great small one.

Don’t go into with a savior complex though. Nonprofits exist because of problems that are virtually unsolvable in modern society for a lot of reasons. That being said, if you actually do care about spending your life doing good (or at least doing minimal bad) it’s a lot better than working your rear end off so the stock you don’t own can go up .003%.

Yorkshire Pudding
Nov 24, 2006



Spatule posted:

And by some you mean nearly all in my experience.

Excuse me, as a white guy from a rural Midwest town who has almost two (2) Latinx friends, I believe I speak for all of them when I say that

Yorkshire Pudding
Nov 24, 2006



I have virtually no complaints about my job, but I’m nearing the end of a fun cycle I’ve seen over multiple jobs.

1. Leadership tasks me with developing process
2. I do so, suggest an industry standard tool to do important, regular task
3. Leadership rejects this new tool because of cost, suggests a lower efficiency, higher time involved tool for slightly less money
4. Team members spend lots of time and resources conducting less efficient process with sub-standard tool
5. Leadership becomes concerned that this process is inefficient, taking too much time, researches better tools
6. Discovers tool I suggested in step 2, decides it’s the right one for job
7. Implements said tool
8. “Yorkshire, we need to develop this new process. Will you look into it?”

Yorkshire Pudding
Nov 24, 2006



Outrail posted:

I'm constantly writing grant and funding requests. Every single funder has its own unique application template that MUST be followed, usually with work or character counts. Often there will be segments like 'Detailed project description (2500 characters)'. This is about 500 words or a page to write a detailed description of a 5-year half-million-dollar multistage project with about a dozen phases. Sometimes I'll get a rejection letter with 'we'd like to see more detail'.

As a person on the other side of funding, a lot of those are because there are 3 people who review those applications and if there’s no limit you get people submitting the same form they’ve sent to 9 other grant makers and it’s 78 pages long.

Yorkshire Pudding
Nov 24, 2006



Outrail posted:

Yeah, I get that. But why make it so restrictive it's impossible to adequately explain what you're trying to fund?

So why not talk to the other grantmakers and standardize the applications? Or actually talk to grantees and have application templates that actually make sense?

Or even better, have prospective grantees submit a basic one-page expression of interest with a total budget and grant request, and pick the projects you're likely to fund and have them submit a detailed application so the rest of us don't waste our time and yours? A couple of grantors do that and it's so much easier for everyone.


I agree with you, and I have heard some grant makers talk about moving to a standard universal organization. The problem is that grantmaking organizations tend to do their own thing and aren’t beholden to anyone, so good luck convincing them to change anything if they don’t want to.

And my organization does the process you’re talking about in the 3rd paragraph. We have an initial short application to see if it’s a fit, and then we ask for a full application. The problem is there’s still no guarantee that the actual decision makers will want to fund every project we send their way, so some people end up writing 50 page proposals and still getting nothing.

Yorkshire Pudding
Nov 24, 2006



Outrail posted:

It's the same bullshit as doing your taxes. There's obviously an easier way but the people in control of it don't care so everyone else suffers.

Yeah, so your org is doing something. If you can cut it down from a 5% chance of approval to a 75% chance by only inviting a small number of the best looking proposed applications that's saving all the rest a huge amount of pain.

As someone who has both written and reviewed grants, most of the terrible ones are government grants who have incredibly specific and complex requirements, often with waiting times that are many months long.

I definitely prefer to be on the side I am now, but it’s not all rainbows. I’m currently sifting through a 50 page application requesting an 8-figure grant. It’s obvious that somebody (likely multiple people) just chopped up several previous grant applications and frankensteined them together. Nothing flows, I have very little idea where this money is going to, and many of the figures don’t add up.

Yorkshire Pudding
Nov 24, 2006



Batterypowered7 posted:

So how much are you going to approve them for? $99,999,999?

I don’t make the final decisions, but if I had to guess it will be $00,000,000.00

Yorkshire Pudding
Nov 24, 2006



Outrail posted:

There are tons of people offering grant writing services, not sure if they have infiltrated bribed lobbied grantors yet.

The poo poo thing is of course people are Frankensteining previous grant proposals together! We don't have the time or money to pay staff to write endless perfect applications from scratch. If application #1 was approved we wouldn't need to apply for grants #2-5. It becomes a self-fulfilling cycle as we run out of organizational funding and get desperate, funding the applications become more incomprehensible as we're forced to just fling poo poo at the walls and hope something sticks.

The choice is to put all your eggs in one basket and do one really good proposal for a single grantor or spread the effort among multiple applications. Either way we'll be criticized.

My favourite is when I carefully ask what our chances are and if it's worth applying, they say it's a great project and has a great chance and we're encouraged to apply. Then get rejection letters stating 'Great proposal! We just don't have enough money to fund everyone! gently caress you! Try again next year!'. That happens so often I want to scream and it's obvious we never had a 'great chance'.

Again, you’re absolutely correct and writing grants is a crapshoot, but this is usually a difference between reviewers and those with decision power.

I can work with a grantee and help them make an application I think is fantastic, and something I know has been looked at favorable in the past and approved. Then I send it up the chain and get back a “Not Approved”, and I have to be the one to deliver the news.

Yorkshire Pudding
Nov 24, 2006



Outrail posted:

That sucks, I'm pretty sure that exact situation has happened to me multiple times and it sound like there's nothing you can do (aside from telling every applicant not to bother). Unfortunately from our perspective that still means the organization as whole sucks and has to be avoided. It doesn't really matter who makes the decisions, we've still wasted our time and rsources.

It's like a restaurant with great FOH and a terrible chef. Doesn't really matter how diligent or helpful or competent the servers are, it's still a bad restaurant.

I'm not having a go at you, and I get that you've been put in a lovely position, this is something the managers have to address and oh, look! Full circle back to management loving up everyone's lives.

We should start a charity and not-for-profit thread. I've been in the industry for two years and I can already feel myself burning out.

Again, fully agree. However, the issue with that is most nonprofits can’t just pick up and take their business elsewhere. There are very limited grantmakers, many of whom are very focused in their area, so it’s a real sellers market. If you happen to be a regular grantee for one of these organizations you’ve hit the jackpot, but there aren’t a glut of organizations willing to write big checks over and over.

Yorkshire Pudding
Nov 24, 2006



Outrail posted:

Yeah, this tracks. Why do NFPs attract lazy fuckheads who'd rather poo poo all over people than actually fix things? The answer is obvious but it still sucks.

It’s the great pay, the renown, and the feeling of making the world a better place.

Yorkshire Pudding
Nov 24, 2006



Posters ITT coming to the realization they work for a nonprofit that is exclusively a money laundering operation.

Yorkshire Pudding
Nov 24, 2006



MagusofStars posted:

I'll bet that almost all of the "you can take my job, but you can never take my FREEDOM to catch corona!!!!!" people are going to quietly change their tune when they're actually staring down the real choice.

My anti-vax, lizard person believing, fundy Christian uncle just retired at 62 rather than get the vax.

Yorkshire Pudding
Nov 24, 2006



BIG FLUFFY DOG posted:

The US has extradition treaties with almost everywhere an american would actually want to live. Your best option is to go to one of the countries that refuse to extradite their own citizens (a p long list with heavy-hitters like Germany, France, Norway and Japan on it) and become a citizen before people figure it out.

Step 1.) Embezzle millions
Step 2.) Join the French Foreign Legion and get assigned a pseudonym
Step 3.) Don’t die for 5 years
Step 4.) gain French citizenship under new name
Step 5.) Spend your millions on baguettes and those long cigarettes

Yorkshire Pudding
Nov 24, 2006



AceClown posted:

what the gently caress?

so if you live in a postcode that has a lower cost of living you get your wages scaled?

lol, lmao

Me, living in the rural Midwest but going to the DMV in Seattle for a license and telling my company I live there.

Yorkshire Pudding
Nov 24, 2006



My mom has worked at a rural school district in the Midwest for 20 years, and I still laugh about this story she told me.

A few years ago when MLK day was made a federal holiday, schools kind of had to decide if they would let kids out. Obviously they didn’t want to. Mom’s school district is *very* white, there are probably less than a dozen POC there.

A few days before MLK day, the administration sent out a mass email to all parents stating that they would not make MLK day an official day off from school, but if parents wanted to let them heir kids stay home it wouldn’t be a problem.

This seemed like a perfectly reasonable solution, but I guess the very last line of the email was something like “but education is important, and we know that nearly all of our students were not directly impacted by Dr. King’s work, so if your child isn’t black they should be in school”

My mom says she read it the second it hit her inbox, and less than 5 minutes later there was a follow up “please disregard the first email, everyone gets the day off, school is closed, we’re so sorry!”

Yorkshire Pudding
Nov 24, 2006



Smik posted:

"Appeals Court Tells Judge to Find a Different Line of Work"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnGoGSh0IXM

This judge needs to be put down like a rabid animal.

Can I get a tldr so I don’t have to watch a half hour video of a dude reading a court transcript?

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Yorkshire Pudding
Nov 24, 2006



Takes No Damage posted:


Lower Court Judge: Well you were found guilty of 2nd degree murder, but I'm going to sentence you as if it was 1st degree.

Higher Appeals Court: Yeah poo poo don't work that way, try again.

LCJ: Hm OK how about I knock 5 years off of that 1st degree murder jailterm?

HAC: :nyd: Listen here you little bitch...

Thanks! I watched up until “he had been stabbed by someone when he came home” and then “oops wait I forgot to mention it was me”

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