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Dexo posted:Jokic's defensive metrics are also loving good tho? Last I looked Denver was 20th on defense (bad) He’s the most important part of the defense
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Feb 19, 2021 16:41
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| # ¿ Apr 29, 2024 09:20 |
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Gobert is having a better season
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Feb 19, 2021 16:42
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I don’t have Embiid as the mvp favorite if that is what you are wondering
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Feb 19, 2021 16:44
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My basic MVP criteria: You have to be on a good team (top 4 seed at least, more like 1-2) You have to be a two way player* There are other considerations but those two are necessary * somewhat relaxed for PGs
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Feb 19, 2021 16:49
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Lockback posted:You should maybe try to watch denver, while Jokic isn't a defensive stalwart he's definitely a 2 way player positively impacting on D. The rest of the team is real bad defensively. The 2nd best guy on D is probably Millsap who, while trying hard and doing his best, is real slow out there at this point in his career. They'd be rock bottom if Jokic was actually a bad defensive center. Even if he was good at defense (hes not this year) his team is still mired in the 8th seed so he wouldnt qualify for MVP on my reasonable and historically sound standards. Maybe if he were better at D his team would be better? a thought.
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Feb 19, 2021 17:03
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Ghost Dog posted:can i have the full top ten list ok let me work on it
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Feb 19, 2021 17:04
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MVP rankings as of right now. After thinking about it these are the only 6 who deserve any recognition for the prestigious award. So Jokic is tied for 7th I guess with every other player in the league with 0 consideration. Tier 1: Lebron James Pluses: GOAT, still best player in the league, on a good team (3 seed but 3rd best record in the NBA), 36 dunks at age 36, has lead team to an impressive #1 drtg despite being on somewhat cruise control coming off a NBA championship. Also Coach of the Year. The coaching job Lebron has done I have not seen mentioned much, but what he has done to get the Lakers playing together after a short off-season and with lots of changed faces has been remarkable. He could be in the HOF just as a head coach. He also plays tons of minutes. Negatives: none. He's perfect. Tier 2: Gobert Pluses: DPOY, leads the best team in the league so far. Extreme offensive efficiency. Plays all the time. Negatives: not as dynamic offensively as you would really want for a true MVP. A history of playoff flame-outs. Kawhi Pluses: second best forward in the whole NBA. Tremendously gifted at defense and also highly efficient and dynamic at offense. Leading his team to 3rd best record in the league. All the traditional stats are right there with the best. Negatives: last seasons playoff flame-out leaves a bad taste in everyone's mouth. Not as good a coach as Lebron. Embiid: Pluses: Up there among the best defensive player in the league. Has drastically improved his offensive game and has become a true monster on O with stats rivaling the other candidates. Has lead Philly to the best record in the East. Negatives: does not play as much as everyone else. Complicated play off history. Tier 3 Lillard Pluses: unquestionable team leader and superstar leading a good team. Somehow wins with Carmelo Anthony playing. Has kept his team winning despite missing tons of time from CJ and Nurkic. Excellent traditional efficiency stats. Negatives: Unaware of any defense being played at all. Even for a PG its abysmal. Durant: Pluses: has lead Brooklyn to the 2nd best record in the East. I dont know for sure but I think he is also Coaching the Nets. Negatives: Missed a lot of time. Efficiency stats not quite up there with the rest. Horrible defense. euphronius fucked around with this message at 17:29 on Feb 19, 2021 |
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Feb 19, 2021 17:27
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Well hes got most valuable TPA locked up i guess
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Feb 19, 2021 17:39
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Space Camp fuckup posted:Why are you so hung up on team record when there’s been less than 30 games played? There’s like a 3 win difference between 4 and 8 in the west. I have explained my criteria above. If you dont think team success is important to MVP thats fine.
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Feb 19, 2021 17:40
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Space Camp fuckup posted:It’s 3 wins!! Ok. If Jokic can get Denver into a top seed I can see sliding him into Tier 3.
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Feb 19, 2021 17:42
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AggressivelyStupid posted:you started really strong and then just completely went brain dead with gobert lol even saying i started strong is a lot from you so I will take that as a W
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Feb 19, 2021 17:44
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I will say Jokic is in the running with Lamelo Ball for the coveted MVP of the 8th seeds. Top 10 for sure on that one.
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Feb 19, 2021 17:52
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Lockback posted:Ok, so tier 3 on a top seed means your criteria is neither team record or individual performance. Got it. its obviously both???
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Feb 19, 2021 17:54
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Lockback posted:But you just said if Jokic had a top seed and top performance the highest you'd put him is Tier 3. So what is keeping him from being top 1? If only we knew. That would put him with Hall of Famers Lillard and Durant. I don't see how that is any disrespect on Jokic.
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Feb 19, 2021 17:57
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Metapod posted:You have gobert as a tier 2 and saying jokic wouldn't be there even as a top seed is incredibly disrespectful I mean in this made up universe I guess Jokic would have to play defense in order to have a top team, so I guess I see your point. But now we are making up fantasy NBAs that arent happening and people are getting mad at me for opinions about fake alternate seasons which is a little strange.
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Feb 19, 2021 18:04
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A good defensive center carries his team to good defense. Denver has a horrible defense.
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Feb 19, 2021 18:15
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Maybe one day Jokic's sneaky good defense will translate to observable results and when it does I will be the first to admit it. it could happen, he was better at it a few years ago. I will bet that when it does, Denver will start winning more games.
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Feb 19, 2021 18:22
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Metapod posted:Sneaky results like going to the western conference finals? And people make fun of me for confusing time.
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Feb 19, 2021 18:24
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kingcobweb posted:But this is Jokic’s fault for not being a better GM I guess another reason Lebron is #1 by a lot. hes turned into a good GM.
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Feb 19, 2021 18:28
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dokmo posted:fwiw Jokic usually ends up as a positive on those adjusted plus minus models, but not this season
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Feb 19, 2021 18:30
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Well so anyway the East starters are fine. The west needed to be Lillard Luka Ogbert lebron Kawhi
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Feb 19, 2021 18:41
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They should honestly think about getting a real center and playing jokic at pg
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Feb 19, 2021 18:54
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Jokic can shoot Simmons cannot So o think it’s a bit different !!!
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Feb 19, 2021 18:56
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I meant on defense Ffs Jesus Christ have a little bit of respect
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Feb 19, 2021 18:58
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If they had a real center that maybe be a net positive I agree tho with your main point that it is hard to have a good defense with jokic. We agree on that
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Feb 19, 2021 19:04
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Feb 19, 2021 21:37
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Being great defensively is in fact very valuable as is evidence by the fact that his team is astoundingly good with the best record Seems like mvp stuff to me
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Feb 19, 2021 22:28
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Well I mean it’s a team game For sure. Not quite sure what your point is. He’s still very effective at offense.
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Feb 19, 2021 22:31
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24-5 15-13 ???? Edit ??????
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Feb 19, 2021 22:37
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OH WORD SON posted:Damian Lillard is one of the three most valuable players in the league. As I mentioned above too he’s doing it with nurkic and Cj kissing a lot of time
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Feb 19, 2021 22:42
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Raptors doing things in that chart
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Feb 19, 2021 22:49
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DeimosRising posted:Coaching doesn't matter though * coaches
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Feb 20, 2021 01:42
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Algund Eenboom posted:THank you euphronius Uour welcome
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Feb 20, 2021 03:12
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You have to question ws 48 with results like that
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Feb 20, 2021 03:23
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Lmao he should be an all’s tar “Random attack “ come on
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Feb 20, 2021 03:53
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Spike eskin hates Ben Simmons and I love him so get better opinions
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Feb 20, 2021 04:05
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Cavauro posted:it's because they are a similar level of player Says a lot about jokic then that with Murray he’s only 15-14
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Feb 20, 2021 04:32
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Rick posted:Euphronius please let me interview you this summer. I’m not doing much atm I can do it now
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Feb 20, 2021 04:50
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Chairchucker posted:Yeah, can't believe it suggests players like KAJ, Wilt, MJ and LBJ are extremely good. Absurd. When a list of players includes all time greats and then guys like curry and jokic you have to wonder about the construction of the stat that lead to such a list It’s only natural . Stats are malleable and can be changed to more accurately reflect what is happening on the court
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Feb 20, 2021 04:58
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The league is changing rapidly A lot of your all time stats are going to be bunk at this point anyways Offensive efficiency is through the roof
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Feb 20, 2021 05:00
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