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Zeron
Oct 23, 2010
Looking forward to buying this solely to play ME2 again. Like I've played ME1 a few times to prep for ME2 playthroughs but it just isn't as good. I've never gotten more than a couple planets into ME3 though.

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Zeron
Oct 23, 2010

DEEP STATE PLOT posted:

yeah, 3 falls apart the moment you meet SPACE NINJA and it never really recovers from there. tuchanka's alright, the rest of the game is poo.

Yeah everyone complains about the ending to three but it literally starts with the most annoying ninja and turning EDI into a sexbot. The beginning is just as bad.

Zeron
Oct 23, 2010

Pattonesque posted:

let me resurrect a hero -- a bloody icon! -- who can convince anybody of anything and give her a cruiser and access to some of my best operatives

Pouring billions of dollars of superscience into a project only to have it turn around and kill everyone involved is the Cerberus MO, they couldn't just mess with tradition! God the sheer scope of how ridiculous Cerberus is just hurts to think about. What if, we take a homicidal AI that'll likely kill us all and fuse it with another homicidal AI that's way more technically advanced that wants to kill us all and that can indoctrinate people with exposure, AND THEN give it control over a stealth ship that can go anywhere in the galaxy. And then fuse it with even MORE Reaper tech. And then put it in an body based off of Reaper tech. All of which turns out way better than any of their other projects.

Zeron
Oct 23, 2010

SettingSun posted:

I forget if the game confirms this or not but I once read a theory that TIM deliberately staffed Shepard's crew with seemingly normal people as a tactic to keep Shepard on his side. A sort of selection bias, if you will.

Yeah that's straight from the game. It seems like TIM tried to strike a balance between a carefully orchestrated pro-Cerberus voyage (because he planned almost every aspect of it) and one that would actually be useful against the Collectors/Reapers. Even stuff that technically paints Cerberus in a bad light like Jack's stuff, he went in and scrubbed all his involvement clean and made it all "rogue cells."

Zeron
Oct 23, 2010

RoboChrist 9000 posted:

Maybe I was just dumb and read all the lore dumps wrong, which seems odd because I really was into ME1, but I always was baffled at how Cerberus went from being a rogue splinter of the Alliance's military intelligence that was basically Cobra - at best - who had plans and schemes that all hosed up even without the player intervening, to actually being the motherfucking Illuminati.

Like they're just D-Tier Cobra in ME1, but in ME2 they're suddenly the Illuminati. It's wild.
Like why didn't they use the Shadow Broker? He was already established as serving more or less the role TIM kind of does, and he doesn't have the baggage of being a space racist so it's not as insulting to the player's agency to have the player indebted to them and working for them a bit.

Like it's just such a bizarre and unnecessary retcon.

I mean..the Cerberus you see in ME1 are just random cells that failed to keep themselves secret. It's a terrorist organization with hundreds of cells, you don't get any sense of how big or widespread it is because that's how terrorist cells work. It's rationalized as a splinter cell because significant portions of the Alliance Military -were- part of Cerberus and Kohaku didn't know it was much bigger than just that.

And the stuff you do learn about them casts a pretty big shadow. They obtained the Rachi, a feat that shows they have resources and connections no one else in the galaxy had. They had deeply infiltrated the Alliance to the point that they could assassinate an admiral without anyone caring. They also had connections deep enough in ExoGeni to get access to the Thorian.

They're just minor sidequests to Shepard, but they are hardly out of line with what's shown in ME2. They have a different tone there, but that's deliberate because TIM is whitewashing as hard as he can to get Shepard on his side. The fleet honestly isn't a big stretch either, Cerberus has been around since the first contact war. The Systems Alliance started a huge military expansion (from practically nothing to sufficient enough to challenge the military superpower of the galaxy) and given his connections it's not hard to believe TIM siphoned from that.

Also they're still just as incompetent in ME2/3, that never changed.

Zeron
Oct 23, 2010
Yeah even with Destroy it's not like someone further down the line can't create a whole new galaxy threatening machine threat. With how galactic civilization works in Mass Effect, there could be entire civilizations/councils out there that no one ever meets and who know nothing about the Reapers. But that's life and it's still better than having the Reapers out there like in every other ending.

With Synthesis, new species will evolve and become space faring and encounter these weird mecha-biological constructions whose way of thinking is completely indecipherable and uh, that seems even more like it'd inevitably cause mass war. I guess that'd make all the species living in the galaxy at the time of Synthesis basically the Borg?

Zeron
Oct 23, 2010
I've played through ME1 and 2 a ton of times but never managed to make it through 3. I've tried a bunch of times and even gotten all the way through Tuchanka but it just never clicked. The whole thing with EDI and Kai Leng just...takes me out of it completely. I look forward to trying it again in the remaster at least, my first playthrough will be a minimal effort FailShep so maybe I'll make it through.

Zeron
Oct 23, 2010

PringleCreamEgg posted:

The problem with the reaper motivations is that it's the opposite of the geth storyline. The reapers and geth are both synthetic beings, and the geth are just fine getting along with humans, you just have to do some work to make peace. The reapers insist this isn't possible and you aren't even allowed to argue this point until the DLC gave you the refuse option. It also comes out of basically nowhere before the Leviathan DLC. It's a perfectly fine motivation for the reapers to have, it just isn't cool that they are portrayed as correct and you aren't allowed to disagree. The catalyst clearly would have the ability to only wipe out the reapers and not also kill all synthetics, and you don't get to push the starkid out of the way and do that.

We've been told the original motivation was something about the dark matter thing referenced in ME2, and they changed that, but it doesn't really affect the reapers. The Sovereign dialogue in ME1 of "You exist because we allow it and you will end because we demand it" is all we really needed, so anything past that is just extra flavor.

Anyway have they confirmed that they changed the ending to make Indoctrination Theory a thing? Because that's honestly the only thing that could get me to give half a poo poo about buying the Legendary edition.

They've brought up the indoctrination theory before and straight up said they'd never thought of it, never intended it, and that it wasn't part of the ending. I'm not sure why you would ever come out and say that, but I guess they just really don't like the fans?

Zeron
Oct 23, 2010
Generally Paragon/Renegade are the "gently caress the rules I have charisma" buttons that you press to avoid facing bad consequences for your decisions. They don't really pop up much when talking with your squadmates, you just chose whether or not to be an rear end in a top hat to them directly. Since Renegade has to be a valid path through all 3 games, it won't be quite as satisfying as full Paragon but it's not going to make the game radically worse.

I would say for first playthrough it's a bit much because there's a lot of space racism involved, which isn't really impactful when you don't know much about the setting. I would generally recommend Paragon first, then Renegade, then maybe a FailShep run.

Zeron
Oct 23, 2010

neonchameleon posted:

The ME3 ending works as is ... mapping to the right hand half of the dialogue wheel. It's a perfectly consistent ending for a Shep that ended up with Wrex dead and genocide on the Quarians or the Geth (I don't care which).

What it entirely lacks is an upper left blue or a lower left red option. I know what lower left red should have been; Shephard signalling "Now, Joker!" and Joker shooting the Conduit. Cue Mass Effect Relay explosion that takes out Shep, the Allied fleet, the Reaper fleet, Citadel, and Earth - but everything else survives (including the Normandy, jumping to Hyperspace). The Renegade making the hard choice. I just don't know what a satisfying and non-cloying upper left blue could have been.

Paragon Shepard ending is just Shepard using empirical evidence from the games to prove that the Star Child doesn't actually exist causing the Catalyst to just pop out of existence, and then Shepard traps the Reapers in a logical paradox that destroys their little AI brains. Then all the Reapers are still around and just dead, setting up the stage for the next Mass Effect where a bunch of species get indoctrinated by the dead Reapers.

Alternatively I like the Refuse ending except I pretend the devs didn't kill it by claiming the next cycle used the Catalyst.

Zeron
Oct 23, 2010

Cactus posted:

On Steam there's a bundle: Buy Mass Effect LE and Mass Effect 3 N7 Digital Deluxe edition. If Mass Effect LE is all three games remastered, why would I also want the original ME3? What am I missing here?

It's meant to give you a discount on LE if you already own ME3 on steam. They're planning on delisting that bundle tomorrow.

Zeron
Oct 23, 2010

Stupid Decisions posted:

Haven't seen it mentioned but this is available on EA Play Pro (the more expensive option not on Steam). Maybe a better option if you are only planning on playing once.

Also this defaulted to my laptop Intel graphics and not the Nvidia, worth checking if you are on a laptop.

Yeah this is the option I went with. It'd take 4 months to equal the retail price, you get access to a bunch more games, and after 4-5 months they'll probably vault it and it'll be in either the $5 tier and/or in Xbox Gamepass.

Zeron
Oct 23, 2010

Aardvark Barber posted:

I have EA Play via game pass on PC. If I upgrade to a month or two of EA Play Pro can I play this game?

I think that should be enough for me to play through and then wait for it to be put on regular Play later if I want to do another playthrough.

It is, that's how I'm playing it.

Here's my poor failure of a Shepard who is in for a really, really rough time in the trilogy. He's got the perfect combination of constant older gentleman squinting and appearing like he's looking down his nose at everyone at all times.


For controller support, if you have a DS4/5 there's no support. Make sure you use DS4Windows and that it's set to emulate it as an Xbox controller.

Zeron
Oct 23, 2010

CzarChasm posted:

Apologies for not going back over 110 pages, but I had some questions about the remaster

I heard that basically all the DLC for all three games is included in this release. Does that include the pre-order stuff like the singularity gun and the Dragon Age armor?

Does this fix/re-enable the missing content like the Mordin/Wrex confrontation conversation that was cut from 2?

Were the triggers for things like Conrad corrected so they actually reflect the options you chose? IIRC, in ME2 he was bugged to always treat you as hostile, even if you were nice to him in ME1.

I heard that some of the checks for paragon/renegade were lowered a little bit to make it just a smidge easier to pass, so you don't have to be at 100% for some of the tougher ones. Confirm/deny?

It's been a long time since I played ME1, but I seem to recall that certain weapon types were restricted by class, but that was not the case in ME2. Did I hear right that the remaster now allows you to use any weapon in ME1, but if you are not specialized in that class, there will be a penalty, like the reticle is larger to reflect lack of precision? Or would it be smaller meaning you have to be more precise with an unfamiliar weapon?

I believe it's all DLC except Pinnacle, with those weapons/armors being integrated into the game instead of getting them upfront.

I'm not sure if they got them all, but yes they did a lot of work fixing bugged content/triggers. And yes, Renegade/Paragon were adjusted.

The opposite, that used to be the case (the larger reticle/drift) but now all weapons are perfectly useable from the start and the weapon trees are just bonuses instead of necessary. They've also made each model of weapon have different characteristics so that say two assault rifles feel different instead of only differing in stats.

Zeron
Oct 23, 2010

4000 Dollar Suit posted:

oh god don't rely on auto save for the luna mission and probably any other mission, just died on the last base gotta do all 3 again. this isn't even the first time this exact thing has happened to me in ME1

Yeah the autosave on 1/2 at least really sucks. Especially if you are on controller and have no access to quick save.

Alexander Hamilton posted:

I thought I remember being able to limitlessly run in Mass Effect 1 but you can't anymore. Am I wrong or is that a change? Not a huge deal but it makes getting around the Citadel the first time a pain.

In the original one you only had a combat sprint. If you tried outside of battle it just zoomed out and didn't go any faster. It's really silly that Shepard can't sprint more than 6 seconds though.

I got to the end of 1 and was like, yeah this is way better than regular 1 and dare I say it, even good. Then started up 2 and it's still so much better to play.

Here's a shot of old man Shepard scaring away a Krogan with his..very intimidating glare.

Zeron
Oct 23, 2010

omg chael crash posted:

I really wish the skip dialog and choose dialog buttons weren't the same. I keep accidentally choosing responses that I don't want

Same, I really hate that.

As far as the humans and timeline...Humanity discovers mass effect 9 years before the first contact war and unifies into the Systems Alliance...then there's 26 years between the first contact war and Mass Effect 1. It -really- stretches belief that they managed to go from literally only their own solar system to a galactic power in 35 years. The ingame politics make some more sense in that (if I remember correctly) the Turians are really struggling with being the sole galactic police and are actually really pushing for human advancement since they are also overly militaristic. There's also presumably a lot of goodwill for making Medi-Gel available.

Zeron
Oct 23, 2010
Honestly I've never found the Saren model distracting at all. Saren's first appearance after Eden Prime is throwing a giant tantrum like a baby (or Kylo Ren). By the time ME1 starts he's way past subtlety considering he has a giant Geth army invading a significant part of the galaxy, I really doubt he cared what the Council thought about his cybernetic enhancements. And there's no real indication that the Council would care or even question them to begin with, Saren is their best Spectre and is above the rules so he can modify himself all he wants. He phoned in an argument at the start because why not, but he was way past the need for Council support. The Council knows their Spectres are engaged in all kinds of massively illegal and unethical things, they just don't care unless they are actively working against the Council.

Zeron
Oct 23, 2010

PunkBoy posted:

Ashley's story is one of the more interesting ones in the game as she struggles to get over her xenophobia and also become the first non-fuckup Williams, and it's neat that you can use her faith to be one of the big factors that drives both changes.

Garrus I think has the most uninteresting side plots in 1. He basically goes "I want to cop harder, Shepard!" and it feels you have constantly bonk him with a newspaper like a puppy.


Yeah, even though Immunity was kind of nerfed in Legendary, she'll still tank the poo poo out of everything.

Yeah...ME1 Garrus really didn't age well. Most of his conversations are about how he thinks cops are too limp wristed and rule bound and then his personal mission is about how he regrets not being able to murder a ship full of hostages to catch a criminal.

Zeron
Oct 23, 2010
While I normally don't recommend doing ME1 sidequests, the really generic Geth base one is worth doing. It takes you to four different planets that all have amazing skyboxes.

Zeron
Oct 23, 2010

nine-gear crow posted:

Udina’s accent always sounded vaguely Irish to me. His first name, Donnel, is Irish as well if I recall correctly. I’d always just assumed that everything about Udina’s very being in-universe was a part of the Alliance’s PR blitz on the rest of the galaxy to try and ingratiate humanity to the galactic community and loving up it as per usual. “Look at this, we have a multi-ethnic ambassador to the Citadel, he embodies all of Earth and humanity just by being here, he is our ideal representative pay no attention to the fact that he’s a huge loving rear end in a top hat, thank you.

Given everything about how the Alliance is actually discussed and portrayed, I think Udina might actually represent the Alliance perfectly. That ridiculous over the top assholery is literally what the Alliance does outside of the like three Alliance Military guys you deal with. Humanity is the loudest bully on the galactic stage and Cerebus is representative of them as a whole in the setting. A lot of the early Cerebus war crimes were almost certainly 100% Alliance approved (such as detonating freighters of eezo above populated regions to get more human biotics).

Zeron
Oct 23, 2010

Rinkles posted:

Are there any instances where the blue/ red option leads to a "dialog failure"?

They're the magical screw the rules buttons so no, except that there are actually some really cool/funny dialogue options that you'll never see if you mash paragon/renegade options/interrupts every time (even if they don't give you better results). And almost all of the games reactivity is in regards to you failing/not doing stuff optimally which you'll pretty much never see if you stick to paragon/renegade.

Zeron
Oct 23, 2010

Sombrerotron posted:

The geth are loving idiots for sitting it out for centuries and never letting the quarians know that they've been tending to Rannoch to preserve it for their original inhabitants' return and that they'd be fine with peaceful coexistence and when the quarians - who don't really know any better by now than that the geth are inherently hostile to organic life - finally decide to make a move these robotic dimwits end up siding with the Reapers again. I'm sympathetic to their cause, but cripes at that point they have nobody to blame but themselves.

If the Geth had actually reached out to the Quarians the likely result would have been a civil war that ended with all the moderate Quarians who could be swayed killed by the militant faction. That doesn't seem like something the Geth would want, especially since they presumably have a lot of trauma because of that exact same thing happening in the initial war. The Quarians who fled Rannoch were the exact people who couldn't be swayed in the first place, because all of those Quarians were killed. Plus they don't exactly have a firm grip on how organic minds think and as far as they are aware literally any move they make could result in the death of the Quarian race and/or a war with the Citadel races. They could also have just been waiting until their Dyson Sphere was completed and then just vanished from space entirely as far as anyone was aware, giving the Quarians Rannoch back without ever having to worry about making a deal. I imagine that after the Morning War they also had to take time to figure themselves out as a species/government and what exactly they wanted to do, they may not even have been united on ultimately giving Rannoch back at the time.

Zeron
Oct 23, 2010

Sombrerotron posted:

That civil war scenario seems like a real stretch, if for no other reason than that the quarian population at large - and perhaps more importantly the quarian admiralty - was divided on whether to try and retake Rannoch regardless. I don't know how the geth would've naturally foreseen such a dire outcome if they don't have a firm grip on how organic minds think, either.

Also they apparently did decide almost immediately that quarians had a right to exist, given that they didn't bother hunting down the ones escaping from Rannoch and that, again, they specifically wanted to preserve the planet as it was because they knew it was important to the quarians. You'd think three more centuries of reaching consensus would be sufficient for a hyper-advanced race of AI to both devote some actual resources into understanding organic species - reasons aplenty for that - and at least make some attempt to resolve the conflict with the quarians (and organics in general, I suppose).

The rationale given behind the Geth not pursuing is that once the Quarian survivors got far enough away they stopped registering them as a threat.

They were divided in the game yes, that doesn't mean that they were 262 years ago after the war actually happened. I really doubt anyone in the surviving fleet was calling for peace with the Geth, that kind of sentiment likely took hundreds of years to take root enough to be at the level the game shows. Plus by the time the game comes around the Migrant Fleet is literally on it's last leg which probably made expressing alternate view points more accepted. It hardly seems like a stretch (to the Geth at least) considering that it's literally what happened in the Morning War. Presumably the time after the Morning War was incredibly tense with the galaxy preparing for a war with the Geth and then gradually calming down when it became clear that they weren't bothering to leave their space...which is incredibly bad rationale, who allows the unchained AI species that they think is 100% genocidal to grow and evolve as much as they want for literally hundreds of years?

Zeron
Oct 23, 2010

DO IT TO IT posted:

I remember years ago seeing someone post an image on the forums that broke down how to do the worst possible playthrough of the trilogy - basically failing at everything and getting everyone killed, while still doing just enough to make the games able to continue. Does anyone know what I'm talking about? It sounded like a hilarious playthrough and I'm trying to find a guide like that on what to do and when.

There might be a different better one out here but I tried a playthrough recently with this reddit guide. ME1/2 was a huge slog with the only payoff being the end of 2, you might be better off just finding a save file to start 3 with everyone dead and going from there.

Zeron
Oct 23, 2010

Thom12255 posted:

I don't think it's stated anywhere but I assume that the Reapers start traveling from Dark Space as soon as Sovereign died rather than when the Collector Base blew up? The ME2 ending makes it seem like the latter but that doesn't seem to make much sense with how fast they get into the galaxy.

I just played the Arrival DLC yesterday and I believe they said that blowing the relay wouldn't really slow them down from getting to the galaxy much (So they couldn't have been too far away considering they were minutes from arriving), it was just about preventing them from using the relay when they got there to instantly pop up everywhere all at once. I think their non-relay FTL is only like twice as fast as everyone elses so it's entirely possible that they actually did pop up in that system immediately after the relay blew and then had to slow boat it for 6 months or so to the next nearest relay.

Zeron
Oct 23, 2010

Comrade Blyatlov posted:

He ain't dumb. Take one in the leg and sit the rest of the mission out, there's no way Shepard is gonna lose.

Look you can't just leave Shepard alone, the last time they were alone they blew up a solar system because an indoctrinated scientist and the Reaper device that indoctrinated her told them it was toootally necessary. Should have turned that asteroid around and rammed it into the Citadel instead and solved all the problems.

Edit: The theme I've realized in my replay is that Shepard sounds absolutely insane and no one reasonable should listen to them despite everything they say being true. Also a whole lot of super cop nonsense.

Zeron fucked around with this message at 04:31 on Jun 2, 2021

Zeron
Oct 23, 2010

Android Blues posted:

I mean, the uplift definitely messed with their culture, but it's also been 2000 years since they were uplifted and at some point you have to acknowledge that they're Space Adults just as much as the asari or the turians are. Even before the uplift, they were at about mid-20th century Earth levels of technology, they were just in the middle of a nuclear post-apocalypse that had, yeah, created a culture of hard-nosed, brutal survivalism. But the gap between them and humanity development-wise is really only about a hundred years, and that's surmountable.

I think their horrible culture is definitely a result of the uplift, the fact that they were immediately drafted into a centuries long war and then almost as quickly their homeworld was turned into an internment camp, but if their material circumstances change, I think there's reason to believe that culture can also change quickly. The Council has treated them extremely badly and intentionally stifled their infrastructural development and economic prospects, but (assuming that changes post-Reaper War) they should have access to the same advanced medical technology, education and expertise that the other Citadel species enjoy.

The fact that the Krogans spent those 1400 years since the Genophage going around being relatively harmless mercenaries and playing nice enough with all the races instead of going on a genocidal final rampage to take out the Salarians regardless of their limited numbers shows that yeah they probably are advanced enough to not need it. Like if they were the mindless brutes portrayed then uh, the unimaginable mountains of baby corpses gave plenty enough reason to mount a final stand or do -something- about it other than what they actually did.

Zeron
Oct 23, 2010
Getting near the end of my completionist ME2 run and..before I always considered ME2 one of my favorite games of all times but this replay of the trilogy is kind of ruining it for me I guess. It's mostly that there's just too many assholes. Like almost everyone you speak to or interact with in the series is an rear end in a top hat. Sure Shepard can usually talk them around into being reasonable/not doing awful things, but after that happens again...and again...and again.. it comes across less as "decent people in bad situations/doing stupid things" and more like Shepard just has magical mind control powers and forces people to be alright only when they are around them. And the squadmates in 2 are just as bad. Like I always liked Garrus before but..he's not a good person and all the conversations Shepard has to have with him about how maybe killing innocent people isn't cool drags him down. It's like basic decency and reason are an actual superpower that only Shepard has which is just tiring.

Zeron
Oct 23, 2010
Split the difference, the catalyst is a dark energy generator, you get together all the races fleets together and do a military campaign to lure as many Reapers possible into a few systems, then you use the catalyst to blow up the stars and wipe everyone out. If you have low EMS you don't have the resources to lure in the Reapers and are forced to just blow up most of the inhabited galaxy.

Zeron
Oct 23, 2010

Cant Ride A Bus posted:

I just started my ME2 Playthrough last night after finishing the first game. Thankfully, it was before the update so I started with a cool $1m Credits.

That said I've been playing Vanguard for the first time and do they really not get barrier in ME2? Charge is cool and all but it's gotten me killed probably 75% of the time that I've used it so far.

I just finished up a Vanguard playthrough, a lot of the fun of ME2 Vanguard only really comes after you start piling up upgrades and I think people get a distorted vision of it based on remembering only the endgame. ABC usually ends with you dying if you do it before you get a few shield upgrades and cooldown reductions added on. My advice before then...use pull/squadmate powers to split up groups of enemies before you charge, get in the habit of charging, shooting, then retreating behind whatever cover is available for a few seconds until your charge comes off cooldown. Squad Cryo ammo also helps because it gives your squadmates shooting actual use. It's only really 3 where Vanguard gets to just charge 100% of the time, in ME2 you still use cover and stuff when necessary.

Zeron
Oct 23, 2010

Admiral Ray posted:

I think the most ridiculous part is Shepard just taking TIM's word for it that the Alliance isn't doing anything. Then in ME3 we hear Vega talk about fighting Collectors to defend human colonies and it just goes over Shepard's head. Shepard even uses the Alliance funded anti-ship guns installed at Horizon and doesn't think "Wait TIM might be lying to me". Just the dumbest mother fucker.

I liked that you got a few opportunities to call him out on him blatantly lying to you and leading you into traps...but you never get to call him out on the biggest trap of all. The game specifically notes that the Cerberus scientists had been messing with the reaper IFF...and then also notes that TIM is the one who gave EDI the decryption methods for handling it..and yet Shepard never calls him out for, you know, getting all their crew captured. Cause yeah, literally everything in ME2 is a manipulation from TIM. Like, there's a good chance the reason the Alliance couldn't get any info/make any progress was because Cerberus kept getting there first and ruining/taking all the evidence. Which all pays off massively in 3 when he gets to parade his humanity savior flag around and talk about how Shepard and all of these Alliance members thought joining Cerberus was the right thing to do and get mass defections from the Alliance/colonial volunteers. Their PR got such a ridiculous boost that even Admiral Hackett thinks it's weird for Cerberus to be gunning down civilians in 3.

Zeron
Oct 23, 2010

Spacebump posted:

How many Krogans does the game introduce us to that never held jobs other than mercenary or related to supporting mercenaries? I do agree that the way they are presented by other races is propaganda. It just doesn't help that most of them seem to pick a profession that is more or less killing for profit.

I imagine it as basically a species wide death wish. Krogans know they are going to go extinct due to the genophage and no one is doing to stop it and they also know that they can outlive their entire race if they try..so why not go for the glory and avoid having to deal with the actual effects of the genophage or the futility of trying to do anything else. It's like Wrex, he's been alive since before the genophage and the sheer futility of trying to save his race had worn him down to nothing by the time ME1 starts. It's impossible to imagine living through a genocide active for thousands of years.

The initial genophage was...still monstrous but it's a bit understandable why they had to do something. Making that something be forcing Krogan women to give birth to countless stillborns..and then updating and keeping it active for over a thousand years is where it goes way over the line.

The Quarians are in a pretty similar situation, living their entire life knowing that ultimately their race is being erased by the Council and that the entire galaxy is just going to watch them die, if not actively kill them off.

Man..gently caress the Council.

Zeron
Oct 23, 2010
Finally on track to finish ME3 for the first time. Thinking about all the other times I failed to complete it..I think the main issue is that Tuchanka is just too good. It's just a huge feel good climax that feels like it should be the end of a game and then there's just nothing to look forward to that's going to have the same level of emotional impact/investment. So I'd complete Tuchanka and just be like..job done, Krogan can take on the Reapers and save the galaxy no need for me.

Zeron
Oct 23, 2010

TheGreySpectre posted:

I've never felt like Kaiden is whiny. If you specifically ask him about stuff he'll tell you but also tell you not to worry about it. Like if you ask him how he deals with is L2 biotic stuff he'll be like "I get migraines, but don't worry about it and I'm better off than most people". Honestly he seems to be pretty upbeat given his backstory. I don't generally use him buch because I find him bland, but I still don't find him whiny.

Carth on the hand will will constantly talk about he can't trust you and allude to personal issues he won't talk about pretty much unprompted. "Carth looks like he has something on his mind". That being said I do think carth is a more memorable character.

He can get a little whiny in 3 where he angsts a bit about how he didn't trust you. It's pretty understandable there because you actually did betray the Alliance by working for a known terrorist group..that is now on a rampage and directly attacking the Alliance (even if you did it for good reasons).

I liked his backstory honestly, he's just matter of fact about how yeah his childhood sucked but he's a grown adult now and way past it.

Zeron
Oct 23, 2010

Walrus Pete posted:

I'd assume orbital bombardment is what they do to worlds not worth harvesting, for whatever reason. If they're they're just gonna make one cruiser out of the Volus then they don't need to waste time meticulously harvesting every Volus colony, y'know?

Yeah reporter lady brings this up in 3. Her homeworld was an industrial colony that made stuff like binoculars...the Reapers swung by and just bombed it to dust from orbit. The population of all the known colonies in the ME galaxy is incredibly small so most likely they only bother landing troops on homeworlds and strategic targets.

Eimi posted:

I mean there's a large gap between hunter gatherer and agricultural, that that makes sense. But like if they were already building cities, then drat the asari suck at this whole technology thing. Like I always got the impression that they wiped out anything with any level of writing/technology, not just space faring civs. Otherwise yeah, just hide all your ships in a gas giant and blow up all your satellites or something.

The Protheans were literally in the middle of uplifting them when the Reapers came. There's a bit in 3 where you learn that the "god" who taught them all kinds of basic knowledge was a Prothean. Granted, the actual beacon probably wasn't that useful to them since they had no ability to interact with or reverse engineer it.

mastajake posted:

Yeah, there should have been an actual consequence to the reapers for being delayed three different times and being on plan (at least) D. Their resources are not infinite, especially in deep space, and technology has progressed further than their typical allowances (especially once humans arrive).

I mean there were, the Reapers being delayed is the only reason 3 doesn't start with the galaxy being extinguished. None of the things from ME3 would have been possible otherwise, the Reapers would have just instantly appeared over each homeworld at the exact same time and wiped out the entire galaxy's military forces at once. Having to come conventionally gave the militaries time to retreat some fleets and save essential supply depots and stuff. I don't really think there would have been a satisfying way to do a conventional military victory tbh, the whole point of the Mass Relays etc is to force the races to follow the Reaper tech tree. No matter how quickly they caught up, the end result would at best match existing Reaper technology. And even if you somehow built a fleet big enough to take on the Reapers 1v1, literally all it takes is one Reaper slipping through your defenses and suddenly your entire government is indoctrinated and your fleets are fighting each other. You can't defend and supply a force that big when each Reaper can take over a world on their own either straight up militarily or through subterfuge.

As far as the endings...I could never make Control/Synthesis make sense from Shepards point of view. The Reaper AI going oh yeah totally you can control us all, TIM would never have been able to but YOU totally can. You'll just be murdered and your personality uploaded to the AI, I'm sure this Shepard flavored AI will turn out perfectly fine and not go on to wipe out organic life in a few centuries. And then Synthesis is..I, the Reaper AI, believe this is the perfect solution to all problems! I just need you to not destroy us and instead commit suicide by jumping into this giant energy beam. And uh, yeah totally that'll uh, infuse the energy beam with your organic material and uh solve the split between organic and mechanical. Don't mind that it just makes everyone look super indoctrinated. Plus even if the Reapers are magically turned into good guys...there's no evidence that they can turn off the whole indoctrination thing and that's kind of an insurmountable problem.

Zeron
Oct 23, 2010

Pops Mgee posted:

I don't care if everyone in the game says that the reapers can't be defeated with combined arms. I'm Commander loving Shephard! I came back from the dead and did a suicide mission with no casualties along with a bunch of other poo poo everyone said was impossible. Every game says what you're trying to do is impossible and you do it anyways. That's why people liked the games in the first place.

Paragon ending should just be EDI and the Geth combining and using the power and processing power of every races fleets, along with their built in Reaper tech, to assume direct control of the catalyst and then using it's power to transform the Citadel into a giant mecha introduce an anti-Indoctrination virus that frees all the consciousnesses in the Reapers/their armies resulting in them freezing up/falling into civil war and then bam there's enough leeway to fight them conventionally.

And then some shots of the very awkward aftermath where everyone realizes that was way more monstrous than just blowing them up because oh god fully conscious husks (also seen in the synthesis ending!).

Zeron
Oct 23, 2010

Admiral Ray posted:

Sure, in ME3 we learn they had a rich society before they developed nuclear technology, but developing something like nuclear weapons takes a lot of non-war related theoretical developments. The implication I get from Eve is that the krogan were a mess even before their self-inflicted nuclear annihilation and she even outright says that their own technological development made "life too easy" for them, so they started fighting each other. The Codex even goes into it and says that until the invention of gunpowder the number one cause of death was "eaten by predators" and after that it was "death by gunshot". I guess if they had a society of Évariste Galois it could work.

They have a lot of neutrality based traditions like the crush, not attacking female clans, etc. Before the genophage made them crazy and desperate, I don't find it too difficult to imagine that there were plenty of scientists/neutral parties that were generally just left out of clan fighting. Post genophage yeah of course no one wants to be a scientist that isn't weapon related. What are you going to do, cure the genophage? Good way to mysteriously die from non-STG related causes. Create better food sources and science? Isn't going to stop the Krogan from going extinct.

Edit: Plus if they were managing to feed and supply the gigantic Krogan horde that actually almost conquered the galaxy, especially during the rebellion where no one was supporting them, then clearly their science and infrastructure couldn't have been -too- bad.

Zeron fucked around with this message at 14:58 on Jun 15, 2021

Zeron
Oct 23, 2010

bobjr posted:

I don't even know if there's a good place to introduce Kai Leng earlier on in the series, he's just that out of place.

Just have him show up in the background of all kinds of shots and play it 100% serious. Saren throwing a huge temper tantrum and you just see Kai Leng sneaking through behind him standing out like a sore thumb and no one notices. Council meeting to declare Shepard a Spectre you see Kai Leng climbing the outside glass. Just shows up everywhere and no one ever explains it.

Edit: Alternatively have the TIM break a little earlier in ME2 and have Miranda help you survive an encounter with him.

Zeron fucked around with this message at 04:59 on Jun 17, 2021

Zeron
Oct 23, 2010
ME2 is a propaganda campaign by TIM. He carefully chose every person Shepard interacted with and sanitized all his missions/data he finds to make Cerberus look as appealing and non-evil as possible. Meanwhile Shepard is flying around saving the galaxy on a Cerberus branded ship, coincidentally identical to the top secret ship that saved the galaxy before (showing their power and influence), showing that Cerberus helps while the Alliance does nothing. Cerberus being so powerful in 3 is a direct result of Shepard working with them in 2, although ME1/2 also show that Cerberus basically -is- the Alliance for the most part and way more humans sympathize with their ideals than they do Shepards.

This is all pretty explicitly laid out ingame, though it's a bit too subtle I suppose. Plus, all the ME1 Cerberus backstory is locked behind lovely boring sidequests.

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Zeron
Oct 23, 2010

DaysBefore posted:

I feel like the conversation options always have a 'this was wrong' choice though. And in his loyalty mission Shepard can just start screaming at him while Mordin finally comes to terms with what he really did. It's certainly messy and underwritten but I think the point is there.

Relatedly, I'm not sure if the genophage is just 1/1000 survive or that plus sterilising members of the population entirely? There are krogan who talk about 'fertile females', but not sure if that's actualy indicating that only a small portion can have kids period, or just krogan misunderstanding the statistics of their genocide.

My assumption is just that with a 1/1000 survival rate, there are going to be a lot of Krogan women who have clutches entirely of stillbirths just based on statistics alone. So just having a living child sets them apart, and because the Krogan -are- constantly adapting to the genophage there probably are some that just have a better ratio.

The Krogan probably do need to figure out some kind of solution to their population issues, but they should have some form of consent in it. The genophage was done without any of that, not to mention the fact that just the introduction of it was a huge genocidal war crime in itself (using The Shroud that helps cleanse their world to distribute their genocidal virus and then sabotaging it afterwards).

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