Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
Keito
Jul 21, 2005

WHAT DO I CHOOSE ?

Evil Kit posted:

Control is kinda map dependent but there really isn't any other mode that lets you just sit back and practice long range shooting nearly undisturbed. The other modes are too close range or kills matter enough you're really dragging the team down by not being close up.

Sounds like Lockdown is for you, then. In my experience two teams will actively fight for area control while the rest are just plonking at them from afar for the whole match.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Evil Kit
May 29, 2013

I'm viable ladies.

Keito posted:

Sounds like Lockdown is for you, then. In my experience two teams will actively fight for area control while the rest are just plonking at them from afar for the whole match.

Lockdown loving sucks lol. I played it when they introduced it and begrudgingly sometimes when it comes up on rotation and there is no mode worse.

Pubbies often have no concept of playing the objective, and once there's only one point to play for cause someone is close to winning the game is either over because one team is so much better than everyone else or it's a literal coin flip.

And not sure how you gathered I was implying I didn't loke control lol, I certainly didn't say I liked the other modes over it.

kung fu jive
Jul 2, 2014

SOPHISTICATED DOG SHIT
Lockdown is great when you get the two pubbies who play the objective and you steamroll the lobby, drop ggs in chat, and go your separate ways. Those rare moments where one person holds the last 10 seconds and the other two are already off pushing the next capture point and you trust the solo to hold it down and get the job done. Chase that dragon legends. Chase it. Or donít because 99% of lockdown matches are rough. :shrug:

Keito
Jul 21, 2005

WHAT DO I CHOOSE ?

Evil Kit posted:

Lockdown loving sucks lol. I played it when they introduced it and begrudgingly sometimes when it comes up on rotation and there is no mode worse.

Pubbies often have no concept of playing the objective, and once there's only one point to play for cause someone is close to winning the game is either over because one team is so much better than everyone else or it's a literal coin flip.

And not sure how you gathered I was implying I didn't loke control lol, I certainly didn't say I liked the other modes over it.

Yeah personally I just want to shoot people but I will play the objective regardless of mode, Lockdown just sucks most of the time because it's generally a grief fest.

For some reason I skipped past the "other" in your sentence and mentally misparsed it as "there really isn't any mode that lets you just sit back and practice long range shooting nearly undisturbed", whoopsie.

runchild
May 26, 2010

420 smoke 🎨artisanal🍑 melange erryday

Quads takeover coming June 25. Also a collection event, Lifeline prestige skin, all the normal stuff. Quads sounds interesting but Iím gonna miss Solos, hope it comes back soon.

Also, they reduced the kills to win in TDM down to 35. I donít know why, 50 seemed fine. Now it feels like matches end before things really shake out.

Remember when they first added TDM and it was round-based? They changed that real quick, Ďcause half the losing team would quit before the second round started.

runchild
May 26, 2010

420 smoke 🎨artisanal🍑 melange erryday

Hereís the patch notes. Theyíre really going hard on the removal of threat scope vision, and even nerfing smoke. Kind of weird to decide itís bad after 5 years, IMO.

Solos will be back July 9th-22nd.

Dyz
Dec 10, 2010
Never liked that a feature which was considered a hack back in the day became part of FPS gameplay.

Smoke doesnt make sense tho.

Daztek
Jun 2, 2006



Still no Duos, guess I am not playing at all this season

Relyssa
Jul 29, 2012



runchild posted:

Hereís the patch notes. Theyíre really going hard on the removal of threat scope vision, and even nerfing smoke. Kind of weird to decide itís bad after 5 years, IMO.

Solos will be back July 9th-22nd.

Make it permanent, please. It's the best thing to come to this game in a long time.

Evil Kit
May 29, 2013

I'm viable ladies.

wow those skin concepts are actually kinda sick for the event. Who knew just making a skin based on another legend would work so well.

Relyssa
Jul 29, 2012



revduit goes unnecessarily hard

dragon enthusiast
Jan 1, 2010

runchild posted:

Hereís the patch notes. Theyíre really going hard on the removal of threat scope vision, and even nerfing smoke. Kind of weird to decide itís bad after 5 years, IMO.

Solos will be back July 9th-22nd.

this is entirely driven by comp. bang/blood had a 100% pickrate on some match days which is kind of degenerate.

she was fine before because every team was running pre-nerf blood/seer so smokes were less useful. now that respawn has nerfed most wallhack abilities into the dirt* smokes are super powerful

* now that fuse is showing up in comp thanks to his ring console perk, every team is abusing the fuse ult / evac tower interaction to give themselves wallhacks in the final ring and I'm surprised that wasn't addressed in patch notes

SKULL.GIF
Jan 20, 2017


No meaningful change at all to Revenant...

comedyblissoption
Mar 15, 2006

quote:

Bangalore

Smoke Launcher: all players within smoke will now have a white highlight visible to other players in smoke within 20m

Dev Note: Fighting inside Bangalore's smoke has never been a pleasant experience for players or viewers (aside from you Bloodhounds) as it makes fights messy and hard to read. We are leveling the playing field now by making all players inside smoke clearer targets to one another with a white highlight. This highlight is not visible from outside the smoke: all of the rotational and sight-blocking gameplay are kept in-tact. However, while playing inside the smoke will be more clear, it will also be more risky and resets will be much harder if the smoke is challenged.
err...wait what? do they...get aim assist inside smokes?

Ra Ra Rasputin
Apr 2, 2011
Dear god, the last safehaven.

Jack B Nimble
Dec 25, 2007


Soiled Meat
What a stupid decision, running Bangalore and blood hound (and looking for digital threats) is a strategy, it felt good to use and I didn't mind when it was used against me because it's just good play.

comedyblissoption
Mar 15, 2006

full 1-way smokes are generally bad for games because it's very not fun to be on the receiving end trying to play around it

Mercury_Storm
Jun 12, 2003

*chomp chomp chomp*
So how goes their multi-year long study on whether they will maybe be able to do something about aim-assist now?

Mercury_Storm fucked around with this message at 10:04 on Jun 21, 2024

Abroham Lincoln
Sep 19, 2011

Note to self: This one's the good one



Theyíve introduced a revolutionary new feature where if the game detects a mouse it just kills you on the dropship to save you the trouble

comedyblissoption
Mar 15, 2006

https://x.com/ttvmkos/status/1804866972103897360

https://www.reddit.com/r/apexlegends/comments/1dmliud/i_performed_mnk_vs_controller_statistical/

comedyblissoption
Mar 15, 2006

https://x.com/sweloh/status/1789144471503802857

Abroham Lincoln
Sep 19, 2011

Note to self: This one's the good one



i mean yeah no poo poo it's 60% of perfect tracking it's literally doing the majority of the aiming for you

4 mnk players in the top 1000 when it's majority mnk is hilarious though

e: oh right it's pc only so it's 40% aimbot. that statistical gap should be even more significant then if you count crossplaying with console lmao

Abroham Lincoln fucked around with this message at 09:12 on Jun 24, 2024

Mercury_Storm
Jun 12, 2003

*chomp chomp chomp*

Insane, may as well be a pinata if you're not using aim assist. No wonder aimbot usage is so high now.

Keito
Jul 21, 2005

WHAT DO I CHOOSE ?

I find it hard to feel sorry for an Octane player dancing around in the open like that, they're asking to get controller'd.


Maybe it's from me playing on PS4 from launch until two years ago when I switched to PC and MNK, but I honestly don't find controller players that hard to deal with in my lobbies. Use walls and cover at all times in fights (regardless of opponent), aim assist can't help them if you're physically impossible to hit. In general my impression is that controller players have worse awareness, movement and reaction times - but I'm usually playing Plat/Diamond ranked. I'm sure it gets harder as rank up and go against controller players who are actually good at the game.

With that said, I would love if the game could put KBM and controller players into separate queues. Fairer matches for everyone involved (except the cheaters of course).

Up Circle
Apr 3, 2008

Iíve been saying this for years!!

MJBuddy
Sep 22, 2008

Now I do not know whether I was then a head coach dreaming I was a Saints fan, or whether I am now a Saints fan, dreaming I am a head coach.
Y'all are smart folks so I'm going to suggest that accuracy at the extreme high levels of play are going to be somewhat endogenous to weapon selection and input device and not the same thing as a double blind play test.

dragon enthusiast
Jan 1, 2010
I believe weapon selection on R5 is randomized (at least it seems that way whenever I see pros grinding on it) so that factor should be normalized out with a large sample size.

Abroham Lincoln
Sep 19, 2011

Note to self: This one's the good one



everyone knows mnk players habitually shoot at the sky for 30 seconds before playing as a sign of respect, a tradition that controller players do not follow

ergo, the stats are invalid, and furthermore it's pure skill not a 60% aimbot do NOT say it's an aimbot

Up Circle
Apr 3, 2008

MJBuddy posted:

Y'all are smart folks so I'm going to suggest that accuracy at the extreme high levels of play are going to be somewhat endogenous to weapon selection and input device and not the same thing as a double blind play test.

Is the game aiming for you endogenous to being a noob?

Runa
Feb 13, 2011

MJBuddy posted:

Y'all are smart folks so I'm going to suggest that accuracy at the extreme high levels of play are going to be somewhat endogenous to weapon selection and input device and not the same thing as a double blind play test.

That the disparity is that severe on PC-only where console aim assist is tuned even higher than pc gamepad speaks volumes on its own, even accounting for the fact that R5 self-selects for the most dedicated players.

Also it's very funny to imagine that, at lower skill levels where player aim and movement are less refined and thus less demanding to counter, somehow the game aiming for the player will have less impact.

Wankie
Sep 11, 2002

Look Glenn we're saved!
For players who think this is just God tier controller players vs mediocre MnK players. The Halo devs released their own internal metrics of accuracy for the entire Halo userbase a few years ago. MnK players CAN NOT BEAT AIM ASSIST, there is no counter or skill gap it's just free built in cheats.

Only registered members can see post attachments!

comedyblissoption
Mar 15, 2006

that was someone on reddit who compiled those halo stats grabbing them from each one of the input locked ladders, not from the devs. i have never seen any devs release their internal stats on input balance.

but yeah it's a similar pattern

halo has 50% RAA from when i measured it. apex pc is 40% and apex console is 60%.

comedyblissoption
Mar 15, 2006

the actual trying-to-aim accuracy stats are probably actually more imbalanced than the in-game counter. prefiring and other types of speculative shots will drive down the accuracy artificially for players.

there was a guy who tried switching to roller for 1 week after a thousand+ hours of mnk. on the r5 apex aim training scenario of randomly strafing bots, they ended up doubling their mnk high score. the score is the number of shots you hit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQ_FqqhzLMw

Abroham Lincoln
Sep 19, 2011

Note to self: This one's the good one



comedyblissoption posted:

they ended up doubling their mnk high score

hey don't take the video out of context

he also beat his mnk high score on literally the first try despite never having used a controller before

Truga
May 4, 2014
Lipstick Apathy
just give the same aim assist to both schemes, how hard could it be??

Herstory Begins Now
Aug 5, 2003

it was quaint that he said he had an unhealthy amount of hours in apex and then it turns out to be 2k hours lol

For a few years now I've been saying that the future of FPS games is very likely going to be some degree of universal aim assist because 1) no amount of mmr seems to actually let really different levels of skill play together and 2) the audience for games is hugely narrowed when there's an implicit prerequisite of hundreds (or more realistically thousand or even thousands) of hours to play games at a proficient competitive level. I'm one of the people who does find mechanical skill and muscle memory compelling, but grinding that out just isn't that interesting to most people and even if it is, it takes a ton of time, particularly in combination with all the other fps fundamentals stuff people need to learn before they're able to be useful team players.

The only way I see that transition to games having aim assist working satisfyingly is to give some amount of aim assist to basically everyone. It's generally way too strong to only have for a single input and it leads to what has happened in apex: the vast majority of people serious about being competitive have swapped to controller. Backend you'd have to balance it around actually making inputs competitive and imo on levels beyond just raw winrate.

To go fully into the realm of fantasy, I wish games would standardize some amount of aim assist and treat it similarly to how handicaps work in golf. I'm sympathetic to the idea of aim assist existing just because it would be nice to play with people who aren't thousands of hours into fps games without the amount of pain that it's going to cause to at least one of us. The one big downside to this is that if everyone is learning to game with aim assist, no one is learning raw input mechanics or experiencing it even. Granted that's already the case as far as controller players go and I'm also making the assumption that people would want to work towards playing without a handicap, but that's probably wishful thinking.

of course the real fantasy is an fps game where everyone is actually on a level playing field but it seems like the industry considers that anathema for a dozen different reasons, so yeah that's a thing of the past.

Truga
May 4, 2014
Lipstick Apathy
just take matchmaking score into consideration when deciding the aim assist imo

if you're the highest ranking player in a match, you get no assist, if you're the lowest you get 100% :v:

dragon enthusiast
Jan 1, 2010

Herstory Begins Now posted:

The only way I see that transition to games having aim assist working satisfyingly is to give some amount of aim assist to basically everyone. It's generally way too strong to only have for a single input and it leads to what has happened in apex: the vast majority of people serious about being competitive have swapped to controller. Backend you'd have to balance it around actually making inputs competitive and imo on levels beyond just raw winrate.

this is a death knell for apex as an esport and it's already in the process of happening at the pro level. People watch top level competition to watch players do crazy poo poo, and when you can't separate player skill from aim assist you become a dime a dozen.

A week or two ago I watched a bunch of pros try to make a tier list of the best controller players in the world, and outside of like three people who actually are mechanical demons, they could not name anybody notably better vs just grouping them all into "top 20 underrated controller player :)"

Jack B Nimble
Dec 25, 2007


Soiled Meat
Is it really that difficult to just let PC players opt into a smaller PC only match making with zero aim assist? If it's longer waits, oh well.

I've tried playing Apex once or twice on a controller but it's just fundamentally not what I'm here for, I play my shooters with mkb.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

John DiFool
Aug 28, 2013

Jack B Nimble posted:

Is it really that difficult to just let PC players opt into a smaller PC only match making with zero aim assist? If it's longer waits, oh well.

I've tried playing Apex once or twice on a controller but it's just fundamentally not what I'm here for, I play my shooters with mkb.

It's not difficult, I just think most of the Apex devs are on roller now and don't give a poo poo about quality of life for mouse and keyboard players.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply