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Alien Arcana
Feb 14, 2012

You're related to soup, Admiral.
Huh. Okay, so there's a guy on Youtube who does various Paper Mario challenge runs, and a while back I saw he was doing a playthrough of this game.
Except for some reason I thought it was a romhack of Paper Mario, and not an entirely new game that's just mimicking the style.

So, uh, thanks for helping me realize I'm a dumbass. I'm gonna get the game and play through it when I have the time, and then I'll come back and join in the thread :)

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Alien Arcana
Feb 14, 2012

You're related to soup, Admiral.
Okay I've gotten far enough in the game that I feel reasonably safe following the LP now :v:


LupusAter posted:

And in this update, the entire reason why I believe this game is an improvement over the Paper Mario formula: having three characters who can act in whatever order and also twice if needed increases the spectrum of possibilities a lot without being too overwhelming. It also means that, barring some corner cases, you always have your entire arsenal ready, so no more wasting a turn switching.

Bug Fables seems to make a point of taking the "utility" functions that Paper Mario tied to specific partners and badges, and making them available at all times. It's really nice not to have to keep the goomba partner out at all times, or waste half my BP on Quick Change.

Alien Arcana
Feb 14, 2012

You're related to soup, Admiral.

Explopyro posted:

Okay, I think that looks better. I've removed the colons and shrunk all the character mugs by 50%. That was a lot more work than it had any right to be, but I think it was worth it (and it'd only have been worse if I'd waited to do it later...).

Ahh, yeah, that looks much better.

Alien Arcana
Feb 14, 2012

You're related to soup, Admiral.
Oh, speaking of species. While it's an enemy type and not a character, the Inichas is actually based on a real insect as well!
Specifically, the peacock butterfly, which was previously placed in the genus Inachis.
Its caterpillar form has spikes and does have a vague resemblance to the enemy (though of course it doesn't have a shell).

Also, Fuzzo is some type of beetle according to the wiki. Good luck figuring out what type, there's like 400,000 species. Maybe a carpet beetle?

Alien Arcana
Feb 14, 2012

You're related to soup, Admiral.

Black Robe posted:

I do like the party interactions and general dynamic. Two trolls and a straight man shouldn't really work, but it does. And regardless of what Vi says, all three of them are nerds.

Vi's not a troll! She's just self-centered and has no filter.

Leif is absolutely a low-key troll, though.

Alien Arcana
Feb 14, 2012

You're related to soup, Admiral.

Explopyro posted:

this would suggest some very weird and idiosyncratic things about their code.

It's this, unfortunately. I've peeked at the code a bit (there's tools to do this with Unity games) and basically everything is hard-coded special cases.
Reminds me a lot of the old GB-era Pokémon games, with all their weird edge cases and interactions.

Alien Arcana
Feb 14, 2012

You're related to soup, Admiral.

Explopyro posted:

Hah, you caught that one! I seem to recall they make that reference even more explicit in a later line.

I haven't actually played Hollow Knight, so I might miss a few, but there are definitely multiple references to it in this game.

There's one specific reference I really loved, but we won't get there for a while.


Explopyro posted:

Wow, really? That's just weird. I'm going to have to do some testing when I get there in the LP, then. I've never actually bought a recipe from him, in every one of my prior playthroughs I'd already had the recipe log filled (or near enough) before meeting him so I have no idea how it actually works.

In my first playthrough I was missing at least a dozen recipes, and I was able to buy them all from him at once. The wiki says there's a few specific recipes he won't ever sell you, maybe that's it? Or maybe it's a bug. (Yes, of course it's a bug. You know what I mean, dammit.)


Explopyro posted:

I can't say often enough how much I love the worldbuilding in this game.

Ditto. It's really well done.


Explopyro posted:

I know, isn't it great? (Although, technically, Breath of the Wild got to the blurred-out icon joke first with "dubious food", I'm not sure if this was inspired by that or just convergent evolution.)

Something I love is that if you cook two Big Mistakes together, you get... a regular Mistake.

Alien Arcana
Feb 14, 2012

You're related to soup, Admiral.

Explopyro posted:

I think item drops are actually tied to the enemy formations, rather than individual enemy types, because the Seedlings we encountered before couldn't drop these and they start showing up on this screen.
That's correct. There are a few enemy types (such as Golden Seedlings) that get their own special item drops, but most drops are keyed to specific encounters rather than enemies.

Explopyro posted:

24 - Oh no! WASPS!! (Recommended listening!)
I love unconventional time signatures.
Bug fact: Unlike ants, not all wasps form colonies, and indeed we'll eventually meet a variety of wasps in Bug Fables that aren't part of any hierarchy.
The wasps we're fighting here, however, are yellowjackets, and those are social, so it makes sense that they'd have a monarch.

Explopyro posted:

The cave exit is a pipe? Anyway, welcome to Golden Path! This area has a nice autumnal palette (although I don't know why it's autumn here and not in the outskirts) and a lot of new things to see on our way to the Golden Settlement.
It's implied that Venus is keeping this area in perpetual autumn, which is... related to the region's exceptional fertility? Somehow?

Explopyro posted:

Although, interestingly, a character being asleep doesn't stop you from rotating the formation, so at least we can get someone else in front and not waste the damage bonus.
You're allowed to rotate as long as every character has at least 1 action remaining, regardless of whether they are able to use that action.
Being asleep (or knocked out) doesn't take away your action; if you used that Clear Water to wake Kabbu up he could act immediately.

Explopyro posted:

Frigid Coffin is really, really good. It might not be clear yet from the description, but this is one of Leif's best skills and will serve us well throughout the rest of the game.
It's a very cool move.

Explopyro posted:

If you look carefully at the left side of this screenshot, you can barely see a bit of safe ground on the other side of the brambles (as that sign was vaguely hinting). There's no way for us to get there now, or even to see the entrance, but there's a cave over there which we'll want to explore once we can cross safely. Put a pin in this.
You can get a look at the entrance if you drop down from the far side. You can't actually reach it that way, though, it's below an overhang. Trust me, I tried! (I'd have been softlocked if I did make it there, so in hindsight I'm glad I failed...)

Explopyro posted:

So tall...
Hm. I imagine you're not used to that feeling, Leif?
We've got to admit we aren't. Not to this magnitude.
I can relate to Leif here.

Explopyro posted:

The merchant caravan are here too! Cricketly and Huscada don't have anything new to say. It looks like they have something new in stock, though, replacing the Burly Berry they usually stock.
I like these guys, but their names sound like Pokémon.

Explopyro posted:

Whenever we see Diana, she'll offer to open up shortcuts back to the Ant Mines, but we have to payfeed her.
You can also ignore her and the shortcut opens automatically after you clear the chapter. Y'know, if you're a cheapskate.

Explopyro posted:

Oh dear, it's not too smart.
Leif is the best.

Alien Arcana
Feb 14, 2012

You're related to soup, Admiral.

Explopyro posted:

One of the game's better subtle details is that Aria, the priestess, is a praying mantis.
How did I never notice that. Goddammit.

quote:

Vi asking the hard questions.
Huh. I'd assumed Vi was talking about her giant nose. Isn't that just a cape or something she's wearing?

quote:

This is obviously Aria's diary. Seems like she wasn't always so devout.
It's honestly kinda creepy. "Skeptic suddenly becomes devout worshipper" is usually a sign that something nefarious is afoot. I know what the deal actually is, of course, but that was my reaction in my first playthrough.

quote:

Yeah, we didn't know bees could be explorers either.
Leif continues to be utterly savage.

quote:

This is one of those moments in games where the player can easily waste time faffing about trying to solve a puzzle, when the real solution requires an ability they don't have yet.
Ugh, it's always the worst when that happens. It almost seems like you just need to hit the crank several times in a row, but there's a bug [hah] in the game's engine that makes it really difficult (if you throw the beemerang twice without moving, the second throw will always be directly left or right, regardless of where you threw it the first time). So you can waste a lot of time wondering if what you're trying actually doesn't work, or if you're just having a hard time doing it correctly.

Alien Arcana
Feb 14, 2012

You're related to soup, Admiral.
Unfortunately I knew in advance that Aria was gonna be a miniboss, because certain Youtubers don't understand how not to spoil stuff with their thumbnails.

Also, Vi actually can't knock Aria down, even if you use a multi-hit attack. Aria only comes down when you kill the vine, or when she uses her kicking attack.
If you want to avoid eating a first-turn 5-HP boot to the face, kill the vine immediately (it has 4 HP on hard). That forces her to the ground where she can't use the drop kick.

Alien Arcana
Feb 14, 2012

You're related to soup, Admiral.
Wow, nice. I did my first playthrough on Normal difficulty, and I still wiped twice on Devourer before I gave up. I think I came back post-Chapter 3 (or maybe 4?) and managed to kill it. And that's on Normal.


A few notes on the Devourer's AI. First, on why the Devourer doesn't always make two attacks.

The Devourer doesn't pick two random moves each turn. Rather, it makes one "direct attack" and one "follow-up".
The direct attacks are the poison spit, poison breath, and slam attack. It picks one of these at random, with the poison spit being preferred above 50% HP, and the slam attack preferred afterwards. More on the slam attack in a second.
The follow-ups are summoning a Flytrap or launching a delayed attack. This move is not selected randomly.

The Devourer prefers to summon, and will always do so if it can -- but the move's got a cooldown (2 turns on Normal, 1 turn on Hard). Also there needs to be enough room.
Failing that, the Devourer uses the delayed attack. But that also has a cooldown (which is a random 2-4 turns, regardless of difficulty).
If it can't use either move, the Devourer doesn't get a follow-up that turn.

Lastly, the slam attack. The Devourer can use this attack at any time, but it's significantly more likely to if it's at half health or lower. The move itself has a 1-turn cooldown, so it won't use it twice in a row.
The Devourer can only eat someone after this attack if it's lost at least 30% of its HP (and it always eats if it can). It will never use the slam attack while its mouth is full.
The Devourer will indeed spit its victim out after three turns, if they're still alive. But as you say, it's rare for the victim and the party to both survive that long.


I think the reason the "eat the party member" gimmick doesn't work here is twofold:
1. The party is small enough that losing one party member is a colossal blow. With the Devourer's massive damage output, and its ability to summon backup, three party members is barely enough to stay healed up and still do some damage. With two party members, you simply can't keep up.
2. There's no way to deter the attack (except Numb, which you won't get for a while), and no way to rescue the party member once they're caught. So you can't really strategize around it, you just have to hope it doesn't use the attack.
Your proposed changes would make a huge difference, but an alternative suggestion is to remove the Flytraps. There's just too many things to do in this fight, and your action economy is literally being eaten alive.

A better implementation of this gimmick was done in Darkest Dungeon, with the Hag boss (who can trap a party member in her cauldron).
There, you have a party of 4 characters, the Hag is the only actual enemy in the fight, and you could free your ally by breaking the cauldron.
...now I kinda want to see a Bug Fables take on Darkest Dungeon.

Alien Arcana
Feb 14, 2012

You're related to soup, Admiral.

Arzaac posted:

Definitely think the reason this fight works so well is that so many other versions of the tough guy/squishy mage fight basically just make you lose for doing the wrong thing; usually knocking out the squishy guy makes the tough guy incredibly strong, able to dish out one hit kills.

Here, you get a warning. You tap Mothiva and Zasp gets mad, don't do that. Then if you don't heed that warning, you get to face buffed up Zasp. And buff Zasp isn't insurmountable either, but you're in for a tough fight if you left him at max hp.

Yeah, this is an example of good boss design in Bug Fables. There's three different ways to approach this fight, and all three can be made viable:

1. Take out Zasp first, then Mothiva. The safest approach, but if Mothiva keeps reviving her partner the fight can really drag on.
2. Take out Mothiva first, then Zasp. The fastest method, but also the most perilous, as Zasp will be boosted at all times.
3. Divide your damage between them, then take them both out in one turn. Avoids or minimizes the fight's gimmicks, but you'll be dealing with two opponents the entire time.

I personally prefer number 3 because I like the dramatic finish. Styling on Team Mothiva is its own reward.

The Iron Kabbu strategy (buff his defense as high as you can and have him Taunt) works really well in this fight because Zasp and Mothiva both make heavy use of multi-hit attacks, and defense gets subtracted from each hit individually. At this point you have Back Guard and defense-boosting items; if you can get normal blocks consistently you can stop 3 damage per hit, which is enough to take most of the (ahem) sting out of Zasp's boosted attacks.

Alien Arcana
Feb 14, 2012

You're related to soup, Admiral.
I love Venus' animations. Between her pantomiming the big attacks, and giggling after the seed barrage... you can tell she's having a blast.

Alien Arcana
Feb 14, 2012

You're related to soup, Admiral.
Argggh I've been away and I missed an entire update.

Explopyro posted:

Aria's still here and has new dialogue; I guess she has a direct line of communication with Venus.
We saw her summon a Venus Bud earlier, after all.

Explopyro posted:

Finally, they have agreed to let us take it, in exchange for materials to build a replacement.
This is such a weird concept. If it's possible to build a replacement artifact... why not just build an artifact for ourselves, then? And if the argument is that the replacement won't have all the properties of the original, then how do we know it will work in the Core? What are these "materials" that the ants have access to and the bees don't? *rant*

Explopyro posted:

Leif's still a bit uneasy about the Queen.
Heck, same.

Explopyro posted:

It's a bit awkward that the regular spy text is used here, honestly. That said, the "prince" isn't quite a normal Burglar: he has twice the standard HP and can do some things the regular enemy can't, bringing this closer to the level of a miniboss. While I wouldn't say this is as tough a fight as, say, Zasp and Mothiva, it isn't a joke either.
This guy kicked my rear end the first time I did this quest. I didn't realize he could summon allies more than once, so I tried to leave him for last; by the time I realized my mistake I was too weak to finish the fight. (Didn't help that I hadn't restocked on items, because I didn't think frickin' theater work would involve serious combat.)

Explopyro posted:

To stay by my side as my right-hand bugs, as we restore our kingdom.
It's a good thing this is a play because "your reward for saving me is to keep working for me" is a pretty crappy reward.
...I'm turning into Vi, aren't I?

Explopyro posted:

As we're passing through the Residential District, we can notice this house's door is now open, and if we get too close a scene will start.
It took me the longest time to find this scene because I never had any reason to walk past this house. I had no idea what I had to do to start Leif's Request.

Explopyro posted:

The plot thickens. This has to be really difficult for Leif to deal with. (Also, clearly he remembers more than he's been willing to talk about; this is the first he's mentioned having been married.)
I would assume Leif hasn't forgotten anything about his life before falling into Snakemouth. It just hasn't been relevant, and I don't think the others are the type to pry into details like that.

Explopyro posted:

What kind of bug would do a thing like that? I'm almost certain that exact thing has happened to some other bugs in some other world.
:argh:

Explopyro posted:

Vi has just revealed the main gimmick of this battle. Like his behaviour might have suggested, Scarlet here is something of a vampire. His 45 max HP can be deceptive, he can take a lot more punishment than that before going down.
Hoo boy. This battle. This is probably the first battle where I had to stop and plan my strategy in advance. Monsieur Scarlet will absolutely win any battle of attrition, so bursting him down is essential.

Explopyro posted:

He also heals based on the damage done, undoing what little progress we've made! I'm not entirely sure how the calculation works: the wiki claims it's 75% of the damage dealt, but I'm not sure how you get 4 from these numbers if that's the case. I think it's doing 50% rounded up, but calculating the rounding separately on each hit.
Interestingly, it looks like the fraction is actually variable! He recovers 1/2 the damage he deals at first, but that increases to 2/3 once he's at half health.

Explopyro posted:

At the beginning of his turn, Scarlet powers up his attack. This is on an HP trigger but I'm not sure of the exact value, it's something like 55-60% (we haven't quite gotten him under 50% yet).
[...]
There's a second HP threshold (I think around 33%, but again, I don't know the exact number), upon which Scarlet will give himself a permanent Defence Up also. If the same turn sees him fall below both thresholds, he'll just get both boosts at once, as you see above.
On hard mode, he gets the Attack Up at 65% and the Defense Up at 40%.
On normal, the Attack Up comes at 50% and he doesn't get a defense boost at all.

Explopyro posted:

Here's his nastiest attack, an explosion which hits the entire party, and heals him massively. Again, this is based on the damage done, but I'm not sure how the rounding ends up yielding this number.
It looks like this attack heals Scarlet for 100% of the damage dealt, but it's capped at 8 HP.

Explopyro posted:

(Also, as I alluded to earlier with the content warning, Monsieur Scarlet plays into some unfortunate tropes, and it's probably worth discussing it briefly. He's the only male ant in the game, and according to the backer who designed him, has a husband. Bad enough that he's a predatory criminal, but when you combine that with his flirtatious/seductive mannerisms and the fact he wears feminine clothing, it gets uncomfortably close to validating harmful stereotypes about gay and trans people. I don't want to say no one should ever write a character like this, and frankly I've seen much worse, but I do think it's irresponsible to do so without also including LGBTQ characters who defy the myth.)
Yeah, Scarlet's a Kickstarter character who doesn't really fit into the game's universe very well. Honestly, the basic concept is kind of interesting. All ants are eusocial, so all male ants are drones. It makes sense, in a world where insects are sapient, that a gay drone would rebel against being part of a queen's harem, and end up an outlaw because ant society does not appear particularly accommodating of nonconformists. Even the feminine coding fits: he's adopted the fashions of the more independent female ants, and taken it to a bit of an extreme. The problem is that we don't actual explore these concepts at all in game, so Scarlet just comes across as a stereotype.

Explopyro posted:

Oh, Kabbu. So trusting. Or is he playing dumb? (Doppel has literally tied a fake horn to his head with wire.)
I think Kabbu's doing it on purpose. He's generally sensitive to other people's feelings.

Alien Arcana
Feb 14, 2012

You're related to soup, Admiral.
Spy Cards is wonderful. Absolutely great.

My preferred deck is almost nothing but attack cards. Basically an aggro strategy: max out my attack power each turn and try to win early. (I haven't managed a perfect 5-round win yet, but I've gotten close.)

Alien Arcana
Feb 14, 2012

You're related to soup, Admiral.

Explopyro posted:

The real question, to me, is why Vi seems willing to accept this reasoning for the other bees but not herself.
I don't know that Vi is accepting the reasoning. Her exact words are "That's just how the Hive is sometimes." She's just stating a fact: bees of the Hive often have their lives decided for them. Vi ran away from that, but most don't.

Explopyro posted:

Though that raises other questions, doesn't it? We usually see exploration teams working as a unit (to the point Eetl won't give permits to un-partnered bugs), but Maki and Kina have been operating separately each time we've run into them...
At this point we've met a total of six exploration teams: Levi and Celia, Gen and Eri, Maki and Kina, Mothiva and Zasp, Stratos and Delilah, and our own Team Snakemouth.
The only other duo we've ever seen split up like this are Mothiva and Zasp. And even they don't seem to stay separated for very long.
Something's definitely up with Maki and Kina.

Explopyro posted:

After a banter, of course; this one always makes me smile. (As far as I can tell, his colouration and Kabbu's seem to be the same? I'm not sure though.)
Nah, Kabbu's right: the merchant's elytra (wing case) is slightly darker, and his legs are definitely yellower.

Explopyro posted:

Well, that was cryptic. Presumably we'll learn more about this eventually. (Anyone playing along, make sure you talk to him, it's necessary to start a minor sidequest much later in the game.)
UGH, this bit really made me angry.
There's never any explicit indication that you need to talk to this guy. I didn't stay at the inn when I first arrived (took the tunnel back to the Ant Kingdom instead), and never had a reason to afterwards, so it took me forever to figure out how to start this sidequest.

Explopyro posted:

I suppose a sandbox would be quite mysterious to bugs who don't know much of anything about humansgiants.
It took me a worryingly long time to realize it was a sandbox. I don't know how the giant shovels and whatnot didn't tip me off.

Explopyro posted:

Our bonus for reaching rank 11 is Vi learning Needle Toss!
Ahhh, Needle Toss. I don't use it much in ordinary gameplay, but it's a key part of one of my favorite anti-boss strategies.

Explopyro posted:

Strong Start is a medal that opens up some interesting options. For 2 MP, the equipped bug gets to start with an extra action on the first turn of every battle, but in return, the exhaustion penalty reduces subsequent attacks by 2 damage instead of 1. That's not as big a downside as it sounds, though, for two reasons: one, it only applies on the first turn of the battle, and two, it only applies to the bug wearing the medal, so you can have them relay to someone else instead. This medal's really good.
Wait, the exhaustion penalty only applies on turn 1? That's much better than I expected. I never used it because I figured it'd be a huge liability in long battles.

Explopyro posted:

In the meantime, how about some voting? (a) Who gets the Heart Berry? (b) Should I buy Charmy's services?

Give the Heart Berry to Leif. He's hungry.
Go ahead and buy the Regular Charm. I don't usually bother with the charms at all but we should probably show it off for the LP.

Alien Arcana
Feb 14, 2012

You're related to soup, Admiral.

Explopyro posted:

I never had trouble finding it just because I tend to talk to everyone anyway (and it's not like you have to stay in the inn to see the dialogue), but yeah, it could have been handled better. It also doesn't help that it's not technically a "sidequest" in the proper sense (which I should have said), it doesn't use the quest log or anything so the game doesn't give you much information about it.

I suspect players who go out of their way to talk to everyone stumble into completing this without quite realising what happened, but anyone who doesn't can easily get stuck.

I usually do talk to all the NPCs. I think what happened is that the banter for the innkeeper includes Kabbu saying, specifically, "Let's not meddle." So I didn't. And then I forgot that there was a dialogue option I hadn't taken. :argh:

Alien Arcana
Feb 14, 2012

You're related to soup, Admiral.

Explopyro posted:

Not to put too fine a point on it, one of the reasons I enjoy Venus so much as a character is that she's allowed to be a character like everyone else. She may be a goddess, but that doesn't stop her being a person. That said, it does kind of make me wonder where Aria's over-the-top religiosity came from, when Venus seems to want to discourage it.

I imagine at least part of Aria's behavior was taught by her predecessor. We know from her diary that she was being groomed to take over as priestess long before she actually met Venus. She also may have thrown herself into the priestess role extra-hard, if she felt guilty for having doubted that Venus existed.

Also, I think the game kinda understates how important Venus is to the Golden Settlement. Isn't she keeping the place in perpetual autumn or something, so that they can grow crops year-round? If the entire community can only exist because of Venus' direct intervention, and Aria knows that for a fact, it makes sense that she'd be super-respectful even if Venus herself doesn't feel like it's a big deal.

Alien Arcana
Feb 14, 2012

You're related to soup, Admiral.
I adore the different reactions here.

This is a totally reasonable reaction!

Explopyro posted:

Kabbu seems to have some body image issues, doesn't he.
Y'know... come to think of it... how does that work with an exoskeleton? It shouldn't be possible for bugs to get fat.
...do the bugs in Bug Fables have exoskeletons? One would assume so, but I can't remember any specific mention of them.

Explopyro posted:

It's really easy to tell the Lost Sands are a sandbox from this height.
This is where I finally figured that out. I think I actually burst out laughing when I realized.

Explopyro posted:

And the gigantic wall and door are an actual human house. All of Bugaria does seem to be in this house's backyard.
For some reason I'm having SimAnt flashbacks.

Explopyro posted:

That's really not how physics work.
Poor Leif, still trying to make sense of video game logic.

Explopyro posted:

It's interesting to think about what the familial dynamics for sentient eusocial insects must be like.
This applies to the ants, too. So every ant we meet is the daughter of either Elizant or Elizant II.

Man, it's really weird to think of Elizant II being a mom. Are Gen and Eri her kids, too? They seem rather young and inexperienced, I doubt they've been around since Elizant I's time.

Alien Arcana
Feb 14, 2012

You're related to soup, Admiral.

Explopyro posted:

(The placement of speech bubbles looks a bit awkward, but the asides are coming from Mothiva in the background.)
Bug Fables has a real problem with getting the tails on the speech bubbles to actually point in the right direction. If you don't pay attention to the "talking" sounds, it can be hard to determine who's saying what.

Explopyro posted:

Doctor HB and Crow are hard at work here. (Is that a floppy disk on top of the pile? I'm genuinely not sure.)
Floppies don't have those three divots at the bottom; there'd be a single metal panel, covering the magnetic tape. But I don't know what else this could be either.

I just want to point out... if someone hadn't dropped their keycard here, everyone in the factory would have been completely hosed!
We can't get out without the overseer, the overseer's stuck in the storage room, we can't get into the storage room without fixing poo poo in production, and we can't get into production without a keycard.
So without this conveniently-dropped card, everyone would've been stuck in the factory for a full week. And as we're about to see, this place is going to hell in a handbasket fast.

Explopyro posted:

...Of course it's called a Bee-Boop.
:razz:

Explopyro posted:

(This does make me curious how they actually got past this...)
Maybe their boots have rubber soles? None of our team is wearing shoes, after all.

Explopyro posted:

Leif, you have wings too.
All the bugs have wings, but for most species they're not strong enough to get airborne. Only bees and some wasps can actually get airborne.

Explopyro posted:

When in this mode, they attack with this diving charge. It hits pretty hard! Overall, though, I think this is probably the easier attack of theirs to deal with.
Really? I'd much rather deal with their other attack, since each hit is weak enough that a Super Block can block the damage completely. The diving charge will always deal some damage. Maybe I'm just good at blocking projectiles.

Explopyro posted:

This is what the delayed missile landing looks like. It's only 3 damage for some reason, so not only is it only a single hit, it's less damaging than the other missiles which it fires twice.
Delayed attacks in general are rather underwhelming. It's a neat concept, but in practice they don't matter much.

Explopyro posted:

Though this can be awkward: if you look carefully here, you can see that after relaying once, Leif's icon for Turn Relay has been greyed out. I'm not sure exactly how the restrictions work, but it seems like, when under the effects of Strong Start, a character can't relay multiple times in the same turn. Leif's going to have to take at least one action under the effects of double exhaustion.
Nothing to with Strong Start specifically, there's a general once-per-bug-per-turn limit on relaying turns. (A character can be relayed to any number of times, though.)

Explopyro posted:

I got a bit sloppy here.
You don't say.

Explopyro posted:

Vi could carry us around, or something.
There's nothing here! Just get out!
You know, if we hadn't actually seen Vi fly near the beginning of the game, I'd be starting to wonder if she was unable to. She's really adamant about this.

Alien Arcana
Feb 14, 2012

You're related to soup, Admiral.

Explopyro posted:

This is Malbee, the maintenance chief.
Is Malbee's name supposed to be a pun? I feel like it is, but I don't get it.

Explopyro posted:

It lets us off right here, at the beginning of this path.
It's honestly a bit disappointing that we don't actually get to see the factory from the tram.

Explopyro posted:

I recommend giving this area's music a listen, it's a much more somber and spooky twist on the theme from upstairs.
There's parts of this track that really remind me of the True Laboratory from Undertale.

Explopyro posted:

Wooden boxes don't seem like a very effective storage mechanism for honey to me, but what do I know? I'm not a bee.
Hmm. They're all about honey, but they don't use beeswax at all, do they?

Explopyro posted:

(This name doesn't quite roll off the tongue as well, does it?)
Abomihoney, Abombination, Ahoneynation... I feel like the authors could use a thesaurus.

Oh poo poo who let Goopy Le Grande into this game?

:same:

Explopyro posted:

Well, isn't that interesting? (Zasp is really quick to code-switch as soon as she's out of earshot, isn't he.)
Zasp is a land of contrasts.

Who are you even talking to? Do you usually narrate to yourself in times of mortal peril?

Explopyro posted:

(Incidentally, it is totally possible to get through this section without using Bubble Shield. I didn't think of that solution on my first playthrough, and while it was incredibly frustrating and took several tries, I was able to get through by some combination of platforming on top of the boxes and using the Beemerang to stun Abomihoneys from a distance. I do not recommend this, but it can be done.)
Oh hey, I feel slightly less stupid now. I feel like the game could have made it a bit clearer that's what you're supposed to do; even just having Leif mention his shield so you remember that's an option?
I think I ended up freezing the Abomihoneys so I could get enough time to lower the bridge... or maybe I tried doing that and it didn't work. It's been a while.

Alien Arcana
Feb 14, 2012

You're related to soup, Admiral.

serefin99 posted:

Here's a question: how do the various invincibility things (bubble shield, shock trooper, anything else we might not have seen yet) interact with the Devourer's "eat a party member" attack?

I can personally confirm that Bubble Shield offers zero protection against getting eaten.

The more I learn about the Devourer, the more I wonder WTF the devs were thinking.

Alien Arcana
Feb 14, 2012

You're related to soup, Admiral.

Explopyro posted:

Everyone... Alright! Take care of all the Bee-Boops! We'll take care of the big one!
You'd give ME such a simple task?
Shut it! They're coming! Just do your job!
Grr... Whatever, let's go!
Trash mobs for a trash moth.

Explopyro posted:

[quote="Explopyro" post="515843739"]
It then spends its turn charging up. It won't do this move before the armour breaks. Like the miniboss we just faced, in addition to gaining a charge-up status, this queues up a specific move for its next turn.
I really like when games do this. I'm not sure why it pleases me so much. Maybe I just feel bad for all the defensive actions that would never get used otherwise.

Explopyro posted:

Kabbu starts off using a second Crisbee Donut to restore our TP. God, these things are so good.
This must be what they call the donut effective!

Explopyro posted:

Heavy Drone B-33 is often a wake-up call; I know I struggled with this fight on my first playthrough (I do sometimes wonder if my fondness for the music has to do with getting destroyed by it multiple times). This is a fight that really rewards you for knowing how to use Turn Relay, thinking through your formation (especially if you have Back Support on), and remembering you have Bubble Shield. There's also the fact you could be facing it with a limited arsenal, if you didn't prepare well for this area and bring in outside items (I'd have needed another turn to finish the fight if I had been using Glazed Honey instead of Crisbee Donuts, for instance), or skipped collecting a lot of medals.
I think B-33 is the first main-story boss where tactical planning and resource management become absolutely necessary. Its combination of defense and "super flight" makes it very difficult to deal any real damage to (Venus' Guardian had both of those, but not at the same time!) without spending a ton of TP on Vi's specials, yet you also have to keep some TP in reserve for Bubble Shield.

The dialogue box coming from behind the "you got a thing" starburst is perfect. Shut up, Mothiva, you're not relevant here.

(You know it was totally Zasp who handled the Bee-boops, too. What's Mothiva going to do, sing at them?)

Alien Arcana
Feb 14, 2012

You're related to soup, Admiral.

Explopyro posted:

I'm not sure this is quite the right lesson to have learned here?
One begins to understand why the protocols are such nonsense in the first place.

Well this is off to a great start! :v:

Explopyro posted:

Honestly, I think she's being a bit harsh with this soldier. That said, this is pretty intriguing, we might have to investigate this ourselves.
In the Queen's defense, the soldier did not, in fact, check everywhere at the Power Plant. There's a big honkin' hole in the wall!

Explopyro posted:

We can select either Single Battles or Rush Mode, and face any Mini-Boss or Boss we've fought before. I really love that this is here; one of the things the Paper Mario games were really missing, I thought, was the ability to revisit boss fights (honestly, that's probably one of the reasons I ended up doing so many playthroughs of those, the bosses are one of the best parts of these games and you always want to try new strategies).
Bug Fables really takes the philosophy of "nothing is ever permanently lost" to heart.

Explopyro posted:

Monsieur Scarlet is up next. This is definitely the toughest fight of this group, and the one most likely to still need a fair bit of thought put in.
If you just want to get the medal, it's a good idea to do this bit before fighting Scarlet, so that you don't have to deal with his bullshit.

Explopyro posted:

The last battle remaining, of course, is Team Mothiva.
They're always the last mini-boss in the rush, which is a nice touch.

Explopyro posted:

Next up would be the Devourer, but I don't feel like dealing with that.
*shudder* Thankfully the chapter bosses are always fought first, so you never need to re-fight the Devourer just to get the medal.

Explopyro posted:

I want to stress that there aren't any achievements tied to this, and you can get the achievement for 100% completion without engaging with B.O.S.S. any further than we have just now.
Which is nice! I did eventually finish the boss rushes, but knowing I didn't have to made them much less painful.

Explopyro posted:

Beeette says this if we talk to her again.
Beeeeeeeeette

Explopyro posted:

When we get off the elevator, the Detector immediately kicks in. In addition to this little icon that appears over the head of the character you're controlling and flashes for a few seconds, it also makes a distinctive sound. Unfortunately for us, I happen to know the item hidden in this screen is currently inaccessible to us, meaning the medal will pester us each time we come here but we can't do anything about it. Anyway, that's how it works.
Yeah, this is really annoying. There's several treasures in Defiant Root and the Ant Kingdom that we can't get right now, so the Detector goes off constantly as you walk around. Given that there's a bunch of sidequests that require going back and forth... it really gets on my nerves. You can just unequip it, of course, but then I forget to put it back on again... #firstworldproblems

I absolutely love this moment, because Kabbu is recognizing Mothiva's contribution, but he's also putting her on the same level as Gen and Eri. She must be steaming. And Kabbu doesn't even realize he's doing it, because he doesn't look down on Gen and Eri.

Explopyro posted:

Zaryant! Reward them. They have prevented this day from being an utmost disaster.
A disaster?! Lady, you've gone from two artifacts to two-and-a-half. You're in a strictly better position than before, even if you didn't get everything you wanted. Ant Queen? More like Drama Queen.

Zasp is so confusing.

Explopyro posted:

This is a really excellent medal, and probably the best reason to be diligent about finding Discoveries (this is the earliest opportunity to get it). Victory Buzz costs 3 MP, and restores 4 TP each time we win a battle. This is, needless to say, extremely convenient and makes dealing with overworld encounters significantly less tedious. I won't say this puts an end to resource management woes completely, but it certainly lessens them substantially!
Yes! This badge is super nice -- it's basically one free Frigid Coffin or Secret Stash in each and every encounter.

Holy poo poo, triple bunk beds! ...I feel like Kabbu wouldn't quite fit in there, though. Maybe he has the top bunk?

Explopyro posted:

I've described the distribution of content in this game as being somewhat bell curve shaped, and as we get into Chapter 4 (and Chapter 5) you'll definitely start to see it.
I think that's a good way to handle things. From a narrative perspective, the beginning and end of the story are the most crucial parts, so you don't want too many distractions at those points.

Alien Arcana
Feb 14, 2012

You're related to soup, Admiral.

Twelve by Pies posted:

Zasp may not be from the Wasp Kingdom. He's a different color than the wasps we've seen, so he may be a different species from outside Bugaria, like maybe a mud dauber or something. I don't feel like this qualifies as a spoiler, but the Wasp Kingdom has a hive so they have to be a eusocial species of wasp, which limits the kind of wasps they can be, since most wasps are solitary species. Zasp being by himself and seemingly not affiliated with them would probably support him being a different species than them.

Right, the Wasp Kingdom appear to be yellowjackets. I don't think it's ever specified what sort of wasp Zasp is, but he's definitely not a yellowjacket. Going by his coloration, he could be a red paper wasp. (They're also social, but Zasp could just be an outcast.)
We've also seen a few other wasps. Carmina, who taught us to play Spy Cards, is a velvet ant (yes, that's a confusing name). And Madeleine, whose butler we rescued, is a cicada killer. EDIT: Oops, we haven't actually met them yet!
There seems to be a bit more diversity in the wasp characters as opposed to the ants/bees, which fits with what you said about most wasps being loners.

Also I'm going to vote against Luckier Day. I've found the badge makes it really hard to tell whether you've blocked or super-blocked.

Alien Arcana fucked around with this message at 00:19 on Jul 7, 2021

Alien Arcana
Feb 14, 2012

You're related to soup, Admiral.

Explopyro posted:

Getting a bit ahead of ourselves, are we? I haven't done this quest yet, it'll probably be in the next update.

poo poo, my bad. I thought we'd done that one already. I've spoilered it in my post.

Alien Arcana
Feb 14, 2012

You're related to soup, Admiral.
If you come around on the right side, this dialog triggers before you can actually see the hole. Mildly confusing!

Explopyro posted:

Lots of things happen this turn! First off, she launches a delayed projectile, which will land two turns later. This doesn't cost her a turn, and she can randomly decide to do it before attacking. Presumably there's a cooldown on this: it behaves like other delayed attacks and will have at most one projectile active at a time, but I don't know the exact length of the cooldown.

Explopyro posted:

Then she calls reinforcements. This also happens before she attacks and doesn't cost her a turn, and calls a single Midge. Once again, I suspect there is probably a cooldown, though I don't have more details than that.
There doesn't appear to be a cooldown for either move, though (as you say) she can only have one projectile in the air, and two Midges on the field.

Explopyro posted:

For all that this fight uses the superboss music, it really isn't very tough if you know how to handle it (and it only gets easier if you come here later in the game, I definitely think it's intended to be fought around now). That said, if you let the Midges get out of control (and if you're bad at blocking), it can be a lot scarier:
It can also get really gnarly if you let yourself get Numbed. This is another fight that's all about action economy.

Explopyro posted:

As soon as the Broodmother is dead, a few bee soldiers come in to check on us.
Thanks for nothing, assholes.

Explopyro posted:

Oh, that's what I'm talking about!
Those berries don't even taste good...
We don't think her taste would be the only weird thing here...
Oi, I'm doing you a favor, okay? Just sit and watch!
It's really weird that they re-use the same dialog each time.

Explopyro posted:

Yeah, we've stumbled into Wasp Kingdom territory. Which in a way explains what their spears were doing in the Power Plant, but, well, does that mean the Midge Broodmother interrupted an invasion?
I love the implied slapstick here, with the wasps breaking into the Power Plant, then getting chased out by a random monster before the guards even noticed them.
Like if a bunch of thieves tried to tunnel into a bank vault, and accidentally broke into a cave occupied by a bear and her cubs.

Explopyro posted:

I decided to have Vi use Needle Toss for some piercing damage on the Chomper. That said, I genuinely can't explain these numbers. Normally the second hit deals decreased damage if you hit the same target again, but it didn't here for some reason.
Yeah, I'm not sure either. Maybe it's like the situation with Venus' Guardian, where part of the code thinks the damage has 'bottomed out' at 1, but other effects later on are adding extra damage?

Explopyro posted:

It could also be that you'd missed talking to Queen Bianca after Chapter 3 ended, the quest doesn't show up on the board if you don't. I missed out on this for quite a while in my first playthrough, I don't think I found this area until I was able to reach it from a different path.
I think I didn't find this quest until the postgame! I had simply never thought to go back and talk to the Queen again.

Alien Arcana
Feb 14, 2012

You're related to soup, Admiral.

Quackles posted:

I vote for saving the tournament for later, but go for Metal Island now.

Gonna second this.

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Alien Arcana
Feb 14, 2012

You're related to soup, Admiral.

Explopyro posted:

And there you have it! I always enjoy this scene. We've already had plenty of hints that Vi is (unbeknownst to us as the player) gathering things for herself, she has her own stash of items for her healing move, etc, so it's not a complete surprise she has her own money.
I kinda wonder where she's getting this money from, though. It's not like she has off-screen time that would permit a side hustle.

Explopyro posted:

Burly Tea (32 berries)
Spicy Tea (32 berries)
What kind of flavor is "burly" anyway?

Oh. Goddammit.

Explopyro posted:

(You know, this raises questions as to how the spectators get in...)
Only those who have defeated all Card Masters of Bugaria and obtained the proof of their skill, or are able to pay an outrageously high membership fee, may pass beyond this gate!

Explopyro posted:

Leif and Vi are definitely closer to the Spike side of things.
And Kabbu's more of a Timmy.

Explopyro posted:

This also makes me wonder about the overall structure here (as I said earlier, this makes me think the body of water surrounding Metal Island must not be very deep?).
Or at least there's a shallow spot where Metal Island is resting.

Explopyro posted:

This miner asks some interesting questions about Elizant's motivations for opening the tunnel. (The real answer is, no doubt, to facilitate the game's fast travel system...)
Maybe Elizant is secretly a Card Spy anthusiast?

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