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Edgar Allen Ho
Apr 3, 2017


Quoth James Cameron,

"Nevermore"



You know it, you love it, you post about it all over. Let's make a thread for Bioware's Star Wars RPG, taking place in the distant past that was exactly the same as the recent past, present, and future of the original Star Wars Saga but with clunkier looking robots.

I'm about to start a new playthrough of KOTOR because it's friday during rona times and I have nothing better to do.

Which Revan do you love?



I tend to do the bland white guy with the hair floof, third from the left on the bottom row, and name him Trik Toral, because that's the random name I chose at age 12. He's usually a light side scoundrel/guardian. Sometimes I do scout/sentinel fu manchu guy and he's 50/50 light/dark. He fixes up HK tho.

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Defiance Industries
Jul 22, 2010

A five-star manufacturer




KotOR1 is inferior in many, many, many ways to 2, and they tell you that early when you can't play as Jesus.

Admiralty Flag
Jun 7, 2007

I do not wish to create joinder with your stank ass



Slippery Tilde

KOTOR introduces the third-best protocol droid in Star Wars and deserves lots of credit for that.

KOTOR 2 elevates HK-47 far beyond what he was in KOTOR (e.g., his definition of love) and makes him the best protocol droid in Star Wars.

(K2-S0 is the second-best protocol droid in Star Wars and yes I know it's a "strategic analysis" droid or whatever but it's obviously meant to be a reimagined C3P0.)

Mooey Cow
Jan 27, 2018



Pillbug

Did you know you can't even have long curly hair like any self-respecting man in this bullshit game?

CptAwesome
Nov 2, 2005



Someone did an LP of the 2nd one where he goes over cut content and expands on the story. It's such a shame they rushed it because it could have been so good

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

STOP BEING EVIL.


One of the weird things about KotOR 2 was that they took a bunch of the Revan faces from KotOR 1 to use as the faces for miners in Peragus, so it's weird to see your old player character as some new jerk who has to die horribly.

CptAwesome posted:

Someone did an LP of the 2nd one where he goes over cut content and expands on the story. It's such a shame they rushed it because it could have been so good

A lot of that content was restored by modders and that was added into many currently sold versions of the game, but I feel like on top of the content that was cut, the whole game could've used a lot of finishing polish that it didn't get.

Admiralty Flag posted:

(K2-S0 is the second-best protocol droid in Star Wars and yes I know it's a "strategic analysis" droid or whatever but it's obviously meant to be a reimagined C3P0.)

I always felt like it was weird that the movie absolutely at no point shows that model of droid doing whatever work it's intended to do.

Edgar Allen Ho
Apr 3, 2017


Quoth James Cameron,

"Nevermore"



Mooey Cow posted:

Did you know you can't even have long curly hair like any self-respecting man in this bullshit game?

it's extremely early 2000s that none of the dude characters have a beard.

Buttchocks
Oct 21, 2020

No, I like my hat, thanks.


Who's the rear end in a top hat that decided to let wookies have dialog?

StashAugustine
Mar 24, 2013

Do not trust in hope- it will betray you! Only faith and hatred sustain.









KOTOR 2 is fantastic but I don't think I'll ever finish it again just because the gameplay is so awful

Sanguinia
Jan 1, 2012

#RXT REVOLUTION~!
2000





KOTOR 2 is one of the best Star Wars stories ever written but I can never forgive it for spawning a generation of idiots who thought its message was "You should just pick the best stuff from Light and Dark and follow your own beliefs instead of do8ng Jedi OR Sith, bing bong so simple setting forever solved by Grey Jedi," because they weren't smart enough to understand it

StashAugustine
Mar 24, 2013

Do not trust in hope- it will betray you! Only faith and hatred sustain.









Death of the author and all but I often wonder exactly how full of poo poo Kreia was intended to be

Sanguinia
Jan 1, 2012

#RXT REVOLUTION~!
2000





StashAugustine posted:

Death of the author and all but I often wonder exactly how full of poo poo Kreia was intended to be

Like I said in the other thread, I think its pretty relevant in weighing how full of poo poo she was intended to be that Kreia's solution to the conundrum of the Force's nature can't be described as anything but nihilistic in a game where the main box antagonist is Darth Nihilus.

Dapper_Swindler
Feb 14, 2012

Shitposting 24/7 without regrets. my parents would be proud.



StashAugustine posted:

Death of the author and all but I often wonder exactly how full of poo poo Kreia was intended to be

yeah. thats my thought too, like the game goes out of its way to make her look like the smartest person in the room and she is basically space libertarians nihilist. like she is right that both idiologies are broken as gently caress but her liberterian thing of "well helping people only hurts them and all strength must be from youself alone" rubbed me the wrong way.

Dapper_Swindler
Feb 14, 2012

Shitposting 24/7 without regrets. my parents would be proud.



Sanguinia posted:

KOTOR 2 is one of the best Star Wars stories ever written but I can never forgive it for spawning a generation of idiots who thought its message was "You should just pick the best stuff from Light and Dark and follow your own beliefs instead of do8ng Jedi OR Sith, bing bong so simple setting forever solved by Grey Jedi," because they weren't smart enough to understand it

yeah. like the dark side is kinda of one way street even if your just dabbling and both games kinda show that pretty well. you either end up using it as a hosed up crutch and become an addict or you end getting trapped in the dark side game of thrones.

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

STOP BEING EVIL.


I think there's definitely an implication that people can be saved from the dark side in the same way that they can fall from the light side, but it ain't easy, and you'll lose a lot of your expertise.

Even pulling back from the idea of the force itself being a sentient slippery slope that pushes people to extremes (which I never really liked much since it kinda robs characters of their own agency), if you just look at characters who are really into hurting people and embracing their spur of the moment emotions, it'd be extremely easy for them to go on their own to do a lot more hurting people for very bad reasons, and you can't just undo that once it's been done.

Kreia also does a lot of mystery box-style stuff when she's talking about Revan, and a lot of people got grumpy about the Old Republic coming up to dumb answers to her enticing questions, but not enough people get angry at the person who sets up the unanswerable mystery box. The one line I remember really feeling was bullshit at the time was when she was talking about "have u ever wondered why Revan surrounded himself with droids" and I just thought "well obviously if you've got a massive superpowered factory, you're gonna be able to create more droids than people". It just felt dumb.

Although maybe it was also because Bioware wanted to put more weight on the destroy droid ability for balancing the game and not giving players the chance to invest into totally worthless skills.

Roth
Jul 9, 2016


Kreia is the ultimate villain of KOTOR 2, and while it is true that Chris Avellone wrote his own views into her on the force, I believe it should be taken as a conscious decision to position those views as antagonistic to Star Wars itself.

Buttchocks
Oct 21, 2020

No, I like my hat, thanks.


I love the fact that you can just straight up execute your buddies at the end of KOTOR 2 by pushing a button. I don't think you even get any benefit from it, it's just an opportunity to roleplay as needlessly cruel.

Edgar Allen Ho
Apr 3, 2017


Quoth James Cameron,

"Nevermore"



But in 1 you can break your slave's mind by forcing him to murder a teenager

Lt. Danger
Dec 22, 2006

jolly good chaps we sure showed the hun



I don't think "nihilism" is an accurate read of Kreia's philosophy. her whole deal is that she has this fully fleshed-out ideology and ethical system and she's mad as heck no one else thinks her ideas are good. she yells at people because none of them (apart from Revan and maybe the Exile) live up to her standards, up to and including the Force itself. that's kinda the opposite of nihilism

obvious comparison point is Nietzsche, who himself wrote a lot about the imminent crisis of nihilism and its dangers. the same concepts recur: the "will to power", the aristocratic Uebermensch, more loosely the idea of an oppressive cosmos. I don't think Kreia would have any problem with people helping each other out so long as it's Very Cool and Intelligent radical philosopher-warriors actively Choosing to Cooperate in the face of the yawning void, rather than an unknowing network of herd-based guilt/shame social obligations for stupid idiots

libertarianism is also not a great fit though that's more because contemporary libertarianism is more concerned with property rights - propertarianism, if you will

ultimately trying to place Kreia somewhere on the binary of "the author's mouthpiece who is correct and we must agree with" or "the villain whose every word is wrong" is the wrong way to go about it. every character is the author's mouthpiece, the game as a whole is the author's mouthpiece - the conflicts and events of the game are the interplay of the different ideas of the author. it's us as readers that must decide, individually, what it means

Lt. Danger
Dec 22, 2006

jolly good chaps we sure showed the hun



also I wouldn't characterise KOTOR2 writing as mystery boxes. the game's very up-front about what it means. what did Revan do after KOTOR1? Canderous/T3 tell you, they went off to fight the True Sith. who are the True Sith? Kreia tells you, they're an evil empire of Siths who've been loving around with the Republic the last few decades

there's no actual questions here. nothing like "who is Snoke?"

StashAugustine
Mar 24, 2013

Do not trust in hope- it will betray you! Only faith and hatred sustain.









Lt. Danger posted:

also I wouldn't characterise KOTOR2 writing as mystery boxes. the game's very up-front about what it means. what did Revan do after KOTOR1? Canderous/T3 tell you, they went off to fight the True Sith. who are the True Sith? Kreia tells you, they're an evil empire of Siths who've been loving around with the Republic the last few decades

there's no actual questions here. nothing like "who is Snoke?"

I do love that Kreia at the end just says "yeah sorry there's no big plot twist; it's just the inevitable showdown between us"

Sanguinia
Jan 1, 2012

#RXT REVOLUTION~!
2000





Lt. Danger posted:

I don't think "nihilism" is an accurate read of Kreia's philosophy. her whole deal is that she has this fully fleshed-out ideology and ethical system and she's mad as heck no one else thinks her ideas are good. she yells at people because none of them (apart from Revan and maybe the Exile) live up to her standards, up to and including the Force itself. that's kinda the opposite of nihilism

obvious comparison point is Nietzsche, who himself wrote a lot about the imminent crisis of nihilism and its dangers. the same concepts recur: the "will to power", the aristocratic Uebermensch, more loosely the idea of an oppressive cosmos. I don't think Kreia would have any problem with people helping each other out so long as it's Very Cool and Intelligent radical philosopher-warriors actively Choosing to Cooperate in the face of the yawning void, rather than an unknowing network of herd-based guilt/shame social obligations for stupid idiots

libertarianism is also not a great fit though that's more because contemporary libertarianism is more concerned with property rights - propertarianism, if you will

ultimately trying to place Kreia somewhere on the binary of "the author's mouthpiece who is correct and we must agree with" or "the villain whose every word is wrong" is the wrong way to go about it. every character is the author's mouthpiece, the game as a whole is the author's mouthpiece - the conflicts and events of the game are the interplay of the different ideas of the author. it's us as readers that must decide, individually, what it means

Its kind of hard for me to read her ultimate solution to the problem of the Force being "destroy the Force and who cares if millions die as a result of that clearly necessary action" as anything but Nihilism, personally. Obviously she's not nihilistic in terms of seeing life and morality as meaningless, but there's sort of an inherent nihilism to concluding that the only solution to a permanent existential struggle is to just kill everyone that participates in the struggle.

StratGoatCom
Aug 6, 2019

Our security is guaranteed by being able to melt the eyeballs of any other forum's denizens at 15 minutes notice




Sanguinia posted:

Its kind of hard for me to read her ultimate solution to the problem of the Force being "destroy the Force and who cares if millions die as a result of that clearly necessary action" as anything but Nihilism, personally. Obviously she's not nihilistic in terms of seeing life and morality as meaningless, but there's sort of an inherent nihilism to concluding that the only solution to a permanent existential struggle is to just kill everyone that participates in the struggle.

I have a lot of sympathy toward her view of the force, considering the thing make a bunch of megadeaths every few thousand years when it gets a tummy ache and empowers some lunatic. With the proliferation of planet killing arms in the sequel trilogy, the end of galactic civilization is probably inevitable over the next few cycles of darksider lunatics, barring of course, someone trying and succeeding where she failed.

She was 100% right about the force and nothing else.

StashAugustine
Mar 24, 2013

Do not trust in hope- it will betray you! Only faith and hatred sustain.









Its weird because I agree with her a lot more in a meta textual sense that "the will of the Force" is a plot device for the author and the actual stories written are just constantly loving up the galaxy because it's fun to write about. But that's relying on breaking the fourth wall a bit

Lt. Danger
Dec 22, 2006

jolly good chaps we sure showed the hun



Kreia doesn't want to kill everyone, she uses the threat of Malachor as a means to force the issue between herself and the Exile: finish your training, prove my ideas correct, or you and millions will die. Plan B is that the trauma of the echo will force others to make the same choice the Exile did, proving Kreia correct in a different way

genocides (and smaller killings) occur because people think certain ideas are worth crossing the prohibition on murder - that meaning is more important than people's lives. it's not nihilism, it's just a specific lack of belief in universal human rights

Buttchocks
Oct 21, 2020

No, I like my hat, thanks.


I already posted this in the game glitch thread, but you can totally trick the Jedi masters on Dantooine into killing Kreia. It's hilarious. For all her scheming and lecturing, she goes down like a sack of leaves without even a final word. You can't advance the plotline after that, but you don't need to either. You can just go on your merry way. It's the best possible ending.

omg chael crash
Jul 8, 2012

Macys paid for this. Noodle Boy and Bonby are bad at video games and even worse friends.



Pure Pazaak

reignofevil
Nov 7, 2008


Sometimes you gotta break the rules.


And that exile went on to become palpatine.

Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011
the forum where people post about insurance in case they have to kill someone is mad at this guy again lol

It's hard to talk about the ultimate thematic message of KOTOR 2 when it's so incomplete. Even the restoration mod is more salvaging it than completing it.

Bootcha
Nov 13, 2012

Truly, the pinnacle of goaltending


Grimey Drawer

Kreia is HK-47 with more words and less enthusiasm.

Admiralty Flag
Jun 7, 2007

I do not wish to create joinder with your stank ass



Slippery Tilde

Counterpoint: Kreia will never know pure, overwhelming love like HK-47 does, but merely a pale shadow thereof

Seriously, IIRC Scorchy advanced the theory that HK-47's dialogue represents Revan's point of view, and primarily Darth Revan as opposed to redeemed Revan, as HK spent most of its time working for Darth Revan and thus serves as a convenient mouthpiece for the absent Sith Lord

Sanguinia
Jan 1, 2012

#RXT REVOLUTION~!
2000





StratGoatCom posted:

I have a lot of sympathy toward her view of the force, considering the thing make a bunch of megadeaths every few thousand years when it gets a tummy ache and empowers some lunatic. With the proliferation of planet killing arms in the sequel trilogy, the end of galactic civilization is probably inevitable over the next few cycles of darksider lunatics, barring of course, someone trying and succeeding where she failed.

She was 100% right about the force and nothing else.

Brace for a long post:

I don't agree that Kreia was right about the Force. It's true that the Force's will and those who's destinies are influenced by it in Star Wars have been at the center of galactic scale destruction, but Kreia is so eager to lay the blame for those things on The Force itself rather than the humans who ultimately make the choices. Its ironic that she gets so angry at the Hand Maiden for so "oversimplifying," the question of where the Force's influence ends and Human influence begins by putting human agency in primacy over its pressure. She's so extreme in her view that ANY amount of influence by the Force in unacceptable she's willing to kill most life in the galaxy to put an end to it if she can't find a better alternative in the form of the Exile's "full potential:" a Force User who can use the power but is totally free of its influence and thus can truly forge their own morals without the pull of Light and Dark on their actions.

Its pretty funny that Kreia was the leader of the Sith TRIUMVERATE, because Fallout New Vegas uses another Roman Empire analogue, Caesar's Legion, to illustrate the notion of Hegelian Dialectic which is at the core of Kreia's beliefs. Thesis, Jedi. Antithesis, Sith. The only way to resolve them and end the destruction the conflict wreaks is through Synthesis, this post-Force's Will Universe where Randian Superjedi rule all Space on their own terms because God Is Dead.

My problem with that is the perspective is so fixated on the notion that the Force is the root of this eternal conflict and that things would work out of you removed its will, when I really side with the Hand Maiden: the real conflict is Good vs Evil as a result of HUMAN will, not in the Force's will to delete Dark Siders through the tool of Light Siders. There are after all other examples of Synthesis between the Jedi and Sith Dichotomy in Star Wars Canon, and they never resolve the conflict either. There is no One Weird Trick to "solving," the conundrum of the Force, and Kreia is just another in a long line of people in the setting who aren't as smart as they think they are when they concluded there must be because the only alternative is Eternal Vigilance, and that sounds, you know, hard.

This is why I'm really hard on the notion of Grey Jedi and how a lot of fans who don't really get Kreia or KOTOR2's plot venerate the notion of them. Whether it's Father from Clone Wars, Jolee from KOTOR1 or Benduu from Rebels, Grey Jedi consistently show up in Star Wars to seem like they have everything figured out, and then for events or characters to slap them for their foolishness, which leads them to die, get defeated, or evolve to return to a more Light-oriented direction.

I believe strongly that the thematic heart of Star Wars in ALL its incarnations, including KOTOR2, is that the true measure of heroism is not inhuman detachment from emotion or impossible selflessness, as fans and sometimes the fiction itself criticize the Jedi for demanding. Rather, true heroism is the will to never give up and always hold to a moral life, without indulging in shortcuts or evil even in the face of hopelessness. For example, the knowledge that you can never REALLY win even if you defeat this generation's Sith Lords because there WILL be more.

To again point at KOTOR 1, Jolee was a coward who hid rather than attempt to confront the problems of the universe because he just felt like there was no point in good triumphing since Evil would just come back... until he found the strength to go back into the breach DESPITE his personal misgivings and apathy. As he says to Carth, he recognizes that this war against Malak is just another war, and the idea that it's somehow more important than any other is arrogance. But he also ultimately recognizes that the evil Malak represents must still be opposed NOW despite that truth.

To talk a little more broadly, one of the key criticisms of the Jedi as heroic figures which helps engender more negative views of the Light Side and its philosophical champions often revolves around a refusal to act against evil on the grand/systemic scale, like Slavery for example. Jedi refuse to mold the galaxy in a better image despite having the power to, restraining themselves to fight within often corrupt systems like the Republic or their own Temple teachings and to generally limit their efforts against injustice only on the personal scales. Does that make the Jedi's version of morality wrong? Well, KOTOR1 takes that criticism in a cool direction by introducing a "Grey Sith," a Twi'lek who embraced the Dark Side specifically because the Jedi teaching forbade using her powers to create a universe without such evil, but ultimately never got around to actually creating justice through her Sith philosophy either because not only is the Dark Side inherently corrupting, the act of power seeking is inherently corrupting. Just like with Grey Jedi or full Dark Siders like Revan, disillusionment with the Light Side tends to create moral failure and leads to worse outcomes than if the person in question had simply found the fortitude to hold to the Light Side.

But if the Jedi aren't freeing the slaves EITHER, doesn't that leave us with a pretty morally bankrupt setting? I say no, because there's one other aspect of the Jedi and Light Users in general aside from Sisyphean Conviction that gets overlooked a lot but holds through in a lot of Star Wars fiction: their ability to inspire betterment in flawed humanity.

Look no further than A New Hope itself for the Ur Example of the setting - Han Solo is a criminal, a killer, greedy, selfish. But Luke and Leia are paragons of a better, more moral outlook on life, and they inspire him to change. Because they do this, the Death Star is destroyed, and the fall of the Empire begins. Luke, the champion of Light the Force raised up to shepherd the fall of Sidious and the redemption of Vadar, would not have succeeded if he had ONLY held to his own convictions despite loss and hardship. He also needed to convince a bad person to become better to succeed. The very thing that he would later do with Vader to the ultimate triumph of good.

This is one of the reasons why I love Last Jedi so much: Luke's bitter rejection of the Jedi and his own legacy is born from a perception that his own "legend," was the root of his failure, and that a "deified," Jedi served no purpose when analyzed objectively. The Light will continue to exist even without them after all. But the Jedi, through their relatively small acts of heroism as mere Knights who fight injustice and evil within a strict code of conduct rather than shapers of the universe through their vast powers, inspire others to better themselves and therefore help bring about a more positive universe WITHOUT forcing their will upon innocents.

Human Nature IS selfish, DOES lead to the Dark Side, and Slavery, and all the other ills of the Star Wars universe. But I believe the franchise's real message is that we can rise above Human Nature even if we are not trained to be inhuman machines from an age so young we are without attachment. We do that by allowing ourselves to be inspired by things that are better than we are. Sometimes that inspiration comes from an institution or specific paragons in a society that stand for ideals we believe in, like the Republic or the Jedi. Sometimes it comes from a general connection to others, compassion and empathy. Sometimes it comes from a more personal connection, love and friendship. Sometimes it comes from a story, a legend that we want to live up to, like Luke Skywalker returning from exile, staring down an entire First Order army and dueling Kylo Ren so the Resistance can live to fight again. Or, if you want to get meta, a legend like Star Wars itself.

So I don't accept that the ultimate message we have to take away from a story like that is that there's nothing you can do to fix the REAL problem and the universe's inherent state is one where the energy created by life simply existing means there is no hope unless the will behind that energy is destroyed, as Kreia apparently believes. Rather, we should take away that even in a situation that SEEMS objectively unresolvable, the true SOURCE of that hopelessness, human frailty, is not absolute. People CAN be better, especially if they allow themselves to be inspired.

Bootcha
Nov 13, 2012

Truly, the pinnacle of goaltending


Grimey Drawer

I'm with you, right up until "their ability to inspire betterment in flawed humanity."

I disagree with the notion that humanity and human nature (and whatever analog fits any alien species) is something to "rise above" because it is so naturally flawed that it will, unchecked, default to a state of corruption/suffering/evil. Defining humanity and human nature by the exceptional outliers, and not the mean and median, could lead one to think that humanity trends towards evil. I would argue the fact that it takes such dedicated evil, to the point of it be nearly comical in unrelenting practice, to create an environment of corruption/suffering/evil is evidence that humanity and human nature usually trends towards good. I'd even argue the concept of "The Force" is a stand in for the concept of "humanity". That it is the power that is between the connections between living beings (and inanimate objects, so noted by Yoda) is the power that Jedi and Sith tap into. Even if we considered that human nature was a net negative, negative "behaviors" such as but not limited to lust, fear, and guilt are not behaviors that are beneficial to a Sith, nor are they for a Jedi.

Not to go tit for tat, but I'd like to refer to your own example of Han Solo. Certainly Luke and Leia made a character impact on him, but also bear in mind that Luke and Leia at that point weren't Jedi. Obi-wan was the only Jedi in that group, and Obi-wan was pretty disinterested in engaging with Solo beyond the contractual negotiations of getting to Alderaan and making sure Solo didn't do anything to endanger the mission. It's not like Solo got a conscience call from Obi-wan after the Jedi was struck down. And let's also not forget the influencing factor of Chewie, his partner in crime. The people best in place to influence Solo and cared for him most, were in fact not Jedi, but either "normal" people or at the most force sensitive.

Defiance Industries
Jul 22, 2010

A five-star manufacturer




Personally I've always seen Kreia's goal as a metacommentary mostly analogous to G0-T0 criticizing you for thinking that because you killed Darth Malak, everything would magically fix itself. KotOR2 came out in 2004, between Episodes 2 and 3. There's definitely something pointed to making a story about how relying on the force makes you weaker as a person at the same time George Lucas is giving Palpatine the power to make our heroes dumber. Like she's saying "dude if you just magic your way out of every writing problem, you become a bad writer."

Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011
the forum where people post about insurance in case they have to kill someone is mad at this guy again lol

Kreisa just seems to be whatever metacommentary people need her to be. The Force is stupid, and the Force can literally be the Force or a synecdoche for the Jedi and Sith collectively, or the KOTOR series, or Star Wars or video games as a whole. She's a villain, so her thinly-sketched and pretty nonsensical motivations and plan to kill everyone don't matter. What matters is that the two obvious choices are the same and stupid.

Sanguinia
Jan 1, 2012

#RXT REVOLUTION~!
2000





Personally I think Kreia is a metacommentary on Videogames, the SA Mod.

Dapper_Swindler
Feb 14, 2012

Shitposting 24/7 without regrets. my parents would be proud.



i was always annoyed how TOR ruined revan by making him get brainwashed by emperor snoke or viete or whatever his name was so he would be a vanguard. i always liked revan as some who believed way to hard in the ends justify the means type and he sees the jedi as a bunch of moral cowards and letter sticklers so he goes and does all the hosed up hard poo poo and through war and atrocities both witnessed and committed he slowly turns away from the light. then he becomes obssed with finding future threats and than finds the grand daddy of them, that should push him to the fall fully and he basicaly takes up the sith mantle to build a greater force against the threat. instead of "he went and the sith man brainwashed him"

Whorelord
May 1, 2013

Jump into the well...



I never finished KOTOR 1 and never got past the tutorial of KOTOR 2 because I thought it came across as really depressing.

I have however, played all 8 class stories in the MMO. AMA

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

STOP BEING EVIL.


I really should try playing that MMO sometime while it still properly exists and I don't need to jump through a bunch of potentially illegal hoops.

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Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011
the forum where people post about insurance in case they have to kill someone is mad at this guy again lol

SlothfulCobra posted:

I really should try playing that MMO sometime while it still properly exists and I don't need to jump through a bunch of potentially illegal hoops.

i made a thread about how that game is cool but also kinda sucks but nobody posted in it because nobody plays that game any more

Cease to Hope posted:

there's a hutt raid boss with a robot walker dais that shoots fire



if you kill him you can loot his hat


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