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Rhymes With Clue
Nov 18, 2010



If I explained my logic it might not be so baffling. But then again, it might be. It makes sense to me.

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STONE COLD 64
Oct 20, 2006


Rhymes With Clue posted:

If I explained my logic it might not be so baffling. But then again, it might be. It makes sense to me.

i get you. willing to hear you out without trying to decapitate you for it. i cannot promise the same to others.

Sandwolf
Jan 23, 2007

i'll be harpo



spacing in vienna posted:

I still don't like this. What were you trying to say / accomplish here, Sandwolf? Because absent anything else it looks rolefishy, like RF said.

At that point I thought you were going to be the lunch so the post where youíd theoretically claim if you were going to be lunched - at the time I thought your forgetting to do so was scummy.

spacing in vienna posted:

Hey, why did you ask Cena this? I don't think anyone was voting him at the time.

Note, because SW and I always manage to read each other wrong: this is a legit question and not a weird attempt to throw shade.

I think I was trying to see how OK he was with being lunched / I didnít particularly feel too emboldened by any of my reads, until the perceived OA rush.

Sandwolf
Jan 23, 2007

i'll be harpo



JOHN CENA posted:

i get you. willing to hear you out without trying to decapitate you for it. i cannot promise the same to others.

good luck tryna get through my neck

Sandwolf
Jan 23, 2007

i'll be harpo



Keane or Voodoofly are giving me sorta sus-y vibes. I say or because something in their chatting feels stilted but I donít know what, but I think only one of them could be faking.

Iím realizing this post doesnít saying anything but hit send

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination


Typically arguments are made like this:

X person is scum, I will vote x to vote out scum.

X person is scum for these reasons.

Arguments are not usually made like this:

Y person is town, x is voting town, I will vote x to vote out player voting town.

Y and x are at -5 one day from deadline, I will vote x because I believe y is town.

The first set of arguments make one guess. They guess that a player is scum and offer reasons to support it.

The second set of arguments makes two guesses. They guess that a player is town, and also that the player voting that first player is malicious in their intentions, and actually scum. This is what has to be argued in order for a vote on player two to make sense. If they guess that a player is town then they also should offer reasons for it, and otherwise it is fair to assume they're scum too comfy with the player list.

Rhymes With Clue posted:

Would rather not elaborate atm. Just saying, the vote is more pro-CCK than anti-Toalpaz.

Rhymes with Clue may be guessing Keane is town because they're scum and alignment doesn't matter to them. What is being implied with this quote is that Keane is not scum. But Toalpaz might not be scum. Either way I don't think clue makes a strong call here concerning my maliciousness.

Which is problematic, because town could easily be voting Keane.

Because I have to assume that Rhymes with Clue isn't genuinely scum hunting at this point, so I will vote Rhymes with Clue.

##vote rhymes with clue

spacing in vienna
Jan 4, 2007

people they want us to fall down
but we won't ever touch the ground
we're perfectly balanced, we float around
til no one is here, do you hear the sound?




Lipstick Apathy

Sandwolf posted:

At that point I thought you were going to be the lunch so the post where you’d theoretically claim if you were going to be lunched - at the time I thought your forgetting to do so was scummy.

I'm not sure I understand. If I'm scum, about to get lunched, then I can't "forget" to claim, because I'm not actually a town PR.

I got the same rolefishy vibe RF did, to be honest -- it read to me that you thought it was a soft claim, and wanted me to either full-on claim or state categorically that I was vanilla.

spacing in vienna
Jan 4, 2007

people they want us to fall down
but we won't ever touch the ground
we're perfectly balanced, we float around
til no one is here, do you hear the sound?




Lipstick Apathy

I have never played with RWC before (I don't think? RWC if we were in a game together and I'm misremembering, my apologies.)

Do they often make unorthodox moves?

I'm okay with people being a little squirrelly with info on d2 -- I assumed more would be explained later and filed it away.

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination


Idk i think that it isn't pro town the way that it was argued.

You don't play cop by voting people who vote someone you investigated town etc etc.

Grandicap
Feb 8, 2006



Ok, so looking back at the switch from SiV to OA, I'm trying to see the scum who wanted to save their scum buddy.

The intial votes looked like this. Before OA had any real traction. I'm going to clip the votes for people not SiV and OA until the final one to make it more consice as there is going to be a lot of votefinder quoting.

votefinder posted:

Votecount for Day 1

spacing in vienna (3): Sandwolf, Hal Insandenza, JOHN CENA
ObamaAkbar. (1): spacing in vienna, Toalpaz, spacing in vienna

Not Voting (4): CCKeane, Idle Amalgam, ObamaAkbar., Rhymes With Clue

With 12 alive, it's 7 votes to execute. The current deadline is February 11th, 2021 at 1:39 p.m. EST -- that's in about 33 minutes.

Then the OA post that sunk a thousand scumships happened, and there was a quick migration.

votefinder posted:

Votecount for Day 1

ObamaAkbar. (4): spacing in vienna, Toalpaz, spacing in vienna, Retro Futurist, spacing in vienna, JOHN CENA
spacing in vienna (3): Sandwolf, Hal Insandenza, JOHN CENA, ObamaAkbar., JOHN CENA

Not Voting (3): CCKeane, Idle Amalgam, Rhymes With Clue

With 12 alive, it's 7 votes to execute. The current deadline is February 11th, 2021 at 1:39 p.m. EST -- that's in about 6 minutes.

Toal rides their vote from early suspicion, RF leads the charge, SiV hops on (could be self-preservation, but that would require 2 scum on the block) and CENA jumps on too. Real momentum swing happening here.

votefinder posted:

Votecount for Day 1

spacing in vienna (4): Sandwolf, Hal Insandenza, JOHN CENA, ObamaAkbar., JOHN CENA, JOHN CENA
ObamaAkbar. (4): spacing in vienna, Toalpaz, spacing in vienna, Retro Futurist, spacing in vienna, JOHN CENA, Grandicap, JOHN CENA

Not Voting (3): CCKeane, Idle Amalgam, Rhymes With Clue

With 12 alive, it's 7 votes to execute. The current deadline is February 11th, 2021 at 1:39 p.m. EST -- that's in about 3 minutes.

This is where I hop on OA, and CENA hops off. CENA unvotes after I vote, making it a tie. Hoping to stall momentum is what I am positing. He jumped on initially thinking that he couldn't stop the train, but then the train stalls and he wonders if it is worth trying to derail it back to SiV's track (not sorry for the stretched analogy).

votefinder posted:

Votecount for Day 1

spacing in vienna (4): Sandwolf, Hal Insandenza, JOHN CENA, ObamaAkbar., JOHN CENA, JOHN CENA
ObamaAkbar. (4): spacing in vienna, Toalpaz, spacing in vienna, Retro Futurist, spacing in vienna, JOHN CENA, Grandicap, JOHN CENA
Not Voting (3): CCKeane, Idle Amalgam, Rhymes With Clue

With 12 alive, it's 7 votes to execute. The current deadline is February 11th, 2021 at 1:39 p.m. EST -- that's in about 1 minute.

With 1 minute left, with a tie vote, CENA doesn't know how plurality works with the ties, or asked and found out it worked such that the execution would have hit OA rather than SiV and switches at the last second back to OA.

votefinder posted:

Votecount for Day 1

ObamaAkbar. (5): spacing in vienna, Toalpaz, spacing in vienna, Retro Futurist, spacing in vienna, JOHN CENA, Grandicap, JOHN CENA, JOHN CENA
spacing in vienna (3): Sandwolf, Hal Insandenza, JOHN CENA, ObamaAkbar., JOHN CENA, JOHN CENA, JOHN CENA
JOHN CENA (1): Voodoofly
Sandwolf (0): spacing in vienna, Grandicap, spacing in vienna, Grandicap
Grandicap (0): Toalpaz, Toalpaz, Voodoofly, Retro Futurist, Voodoofly, Retro Futurist
Hal Insandenza (0): Grandicap, Grandicap

Not Voting (3): CCKeane, Idle Amalgam, Rhymes With Clue

With 12 alive, it's 7 votes to execute. The current deadline is February 11th, 2021 at 1:39 p.m. EST -- that's in about 0 minutes.

Final Votecount, not trimming anything from that one.
Sitting on SiV we have Hal and Sandwolf, but they have been on that vote the entire day at that point. There was no OA execution to derail from, so their votes wouldn't have been frantically trying to save their scum buddy. Not voting too, Keane was around and not voting, IA and Clue were not around.
The only one attempting to save Obama, known scum, was CENA, it was a weak effort because he didn't want to put himself too far out there, but that is what he was trying to do.

##vote John Cena

Grandicap
Feb 8, 2006



Here are CENA's posts around the execution.

JOHN CENA posted:

i think a tie would result in an NL

JOHN CENA posted:

##vote spacing in vienna

the only one so far who seems like impostre

This SiV vote happens at 12:55 EST, so before the OA swing started. (RF voted starting the ride at 1:24 EST). Just casually voting the vote leader with nebulous reasoning.

JOHN CENA posted:

i will ##vote obama for a third time

He votes Obama, with a tacked on joke, obviously leaving him room to jump off if he needs to.

JOHN CENA posted:

i agree but the post was bad to me.

feel weird about sivs interacting with grandi


hmm



##vote siv

thanks, obama :(

Which he immediately does. He swings back pressure to SiV, mentioning the interaction with me rather, which feels like a skimmed takeaway from the SiV-spicion.

JOHN CENA posted:

im 50/50 rn on it. siv feels actually scummy and obama feels accidentally scummy if that makes sense which isnt far from how i have read him in prior games

Halfheartedly backs it up, attempts to give Obama the out, tries to get focus back on SiV.

JOHN CENA posted:

##vote obama
avoiding tie

Then 1 minute before deadline switches for cred.

All of this happens in about a 45 minute timeframe. CENA is the scum.

STONE COLD 64
Oct 20, 2006


Grandicap posted:

Here are CENA's posts around the execution.



This SiV vote happens at 12:55 EST, so before the OA swing started. (RF voted starting the ride at 1:24 EST). Just casually voting the vote leader with nebulous reasoning.


He votes Obama, with a tacked on joke, obviously leaving him room to jump off if he needs to.


Which he immediately does. He swings back pressure to SiV, mentioning the interaction with me rather, which feels like a skimmed takeaway from the SiV-spicion.


Halfheartedly backs it up, attempts to give Obama the out, tries to get focus back on SiV.


Then 1 minute before deadline switches for cred.

All of this happens in about a 45 minute timeframe. CENA is the scum.
counterpoint: no

CapitalistPig
Nov 3, 2005

You turn the corner and see a greenskinned fuckmidget.
Roll for initiative.

:siren: Friendly reminder :siren:

Do not, under any circumstances talk to other players out of thread in any way related to this game.

I shouldn't have to tell any of you that.

STONE COLD 64
Oct 20, 2006


grandicaps argument is very stupid.

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination


I liked my argument but no one cares. :(

Anyways I don't think voting the hammer of scum is worth while at this point in time, despite how strongly you feel grandicap. If JC hadn't voted they would have plurality lunched SIV who is maybe town?

Grandicap
Feb 8, 2006



People play powerroles poorly all the time Toal, he shouldn't have alluded to a thing if he wasn't willing to put out details, but that is not a scummy thing, it is a excited about night action bingo thing.

Voodoofly
Jul 3, 2002


Rhymes With Clue posted:

If I explained my logic it might not be so baffling. But then again, it might be. It makes sense to me.

Are you merkís alt?

This feels like you are purposefully trying to come off scummy and I have no idea what to think about it.

Voodoofly
Jul 3, 2002


Grandicap posted:

People play powerroles poorly all the time Toal, he shouldn't have alluded to a thing if he wasn't willing to put out details, but that is not a scummy thing, it is a excited about night action bingo thing.

What did I miss about alluding to a night action?

Grandicap
Feb 8, 2006



Maybe I'm misreading, but his defense of Keane when Toal voted him immediately made me think night action.

Grandicap
Feb 8, 2006



Rhymes With Clue posted:

I don't see this vote for CCK as protown.

##vote Toalpaz

This one.

Voodoofly
Jul 3, 2002


Toalpaz posted:

I liked my argument but no one cares. :(

Anyways I don't think voting the hammer of scum is worth while at this point in time, despite how strongly you feel grandicap. If JC hadn't voted they would have plurality lunched SIV who is maybe town?

This is where Iím at with Cena. It wouldnít have been that had to not switch to OA again and let SiV die. Sure, SiV could be scum and Cena could be the third stuck in a no win situation but I sure as hell wouldnít hammer scum over town if Iím scum in that same spot.

In no way is Cena cleared but I really donít feel like voting him today.










On the other hand, I had to read the John Cena ďauthoredĒ book Elbow Grease to my son tonight. For like the 10 billionth time. I hate that ducking book and could probably be swayed to vote him just for the name right now.

Voodoofly
Jul 3, 2002


Grandicap posted:

Maybe I'm misreading, but his defense of Keane when Toal voted him immediately made me think night action.

I just found it baffling but sure your read is as good as any on that.

Rhymes With Clue
Nov 18, 2010



spacing in vienna posted:

I have never played with RWC before (I don't think? RWC if we were in a game together and I'm misremembering, my apologies.)

Do they often make unorthodox moves?

I'm okay with people being a little squirrelly with info on d2 -- I assumed more would be explained later and filed it away.

You haven't played with me, this is only my third game here.

Unorthodox moves, probably! Sorry about that. I'm feeling my way through this.

CCKeane
Jan 28, 2008

my shit posts don't die, they multiply



Grandicap posted:

Maybe I'm misreading, but his defense of Keane when Toal voted him immediately made me think night action.

Why are you doing this, talking about night actions?

Voodoofly
Jul 3, 2002


##vote hal

Pretty much a guy vote as I donít really have a strong scum vibe from anyone right now. He was voting SiV over OA but I canít tell if he was even around for the OA stuff. His only post today though is a ďliesĒ response to CCK and then the shade thrown at sand.

Itís Saturday, the ground is covered in snow, and I have a 3 year old who will almost certainly want to play in that snow so not sure how much Iíll be around for the deadline but will try to keep checking in.

Voodoofly
Jul 3, 2002


For what itís worth I thought I was going to vote Grandi this morning but rereading his case on Cena I found it pretty reasonable even if I donít really agree or want to vote that direction.

Voodoofly
Jul 3, 2002


Of the other people with votes right now toalp would be my next choice but that is probably because I donít want to vote Cena or Rhymes.

Sandwolf
Jan 23, 2007

i'll be harpo



Voodoofly posted:

For what itís worth I thought I was going to vote Grandi this morning but rereading his case on Cena I found it pretty reasonable even if I donít really agree or want to vote that direction.

This feels like a really bizarre stance to take Voodoo?

##vote Cena

Sandwolf
Jan 23, 2007

i'll be harpo



Voodoofly posted:

This is where Iím at with Cena. It wouldnít have been that had to not switch to OA again and let SiV die. Sure, SiV could be scum and Cena could be the third stuck in a no win situation but I sure as hell wouldnít hammer scum over town if Iím scum in that same spot.

Yeah but if Obama was ever, ever lunched, Cena would have sunken his ship with that play. I think he ultimately decides to look better on the bus then help survive a teammate.

Voodoofly
Jul 3, 2002


Sandwolf posted:

Yeah but if Obama was ever, ever lunched, Cena would have sunken his ship with that play. I think he ultimately decides to look better on the bus then help survive a teammate.

Maybe. Iím not sure he looks that good from it. I just donít want to vote Cena today.

Sandwolf
Jan 23, 2007

i'll be harpo



Voodoofly posted:

Maybe. Iím not sure he looks that good from it. I just donít want to vote Cena today.

I donít think he looks that good from it either but I think he wanted to/tried to? Why the insistence on not voting Cena today?

Voodoofly
Jul 3, 2002


Hal, CCK, SiV and Cena havenít voted. Deadline in a couple hours. You all need to weigh in.

Voodoofly
Jul 3, 2002


Sandwolf posted:

I donít think he looks that good from it either but I think he wanted to/tried to? Why the insistence on not voting Cena today?

Like I said before, he looked bad either way and unless SiV is scum I canít imagine hammering OA there if Iím scum. Or at least I have a harder time imagining it. I think Hal is a better vote.

That said if he doesnít post and vote the cest la vie Iíll be happy to swap

Sandwolf
Jan 23, 2007

i'll be harpo



Cenaís sort of abdication of the thread along with the EoD and their response to this sort of general case make me thinks thereís gold in them their hills

Sandwolf
Jan 23, 2007

i'll be harpo



JOHN CENA posted:

counterpoint: no

JOHN CENA posted:

grandicaps argument is very stupid.

So he bothers to engage with the case but tries to just poo-poo it away (these are his most recent posts)

Grandicap
Feb 8, 2006



My case isn't the strongest, but it is the fishiest behavior around a scum execution. That coupled with his behavior interacting with my case, and his dipping is a pretty strong indicator that he is scum.

Voodoofly
Jul 3, 2002


Look I sort of agree with both of you. Itís just squaring the circle of choosing OA over SiV at the end.

Voodoofly
Jul 3, 2002


SiV who do you think is scum? Youíve shaded Hal, calling his vote on you scummier than sands. You have the one post on rhyme. Other than that you are just going back and forth with sand.

Iím starting to think I might want to vote you over Hal right now.

Sandwolf
Jan 23, 2007

i'll be harpo



In what dimension would you be more willing to vote SiV over Cena? The rush left SiV to vote OA and nabbed scum?

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Voodoofly
Jul 3, 2002


Cena was a deciding vote to execute scum? Itís the only thing that is giving me pause.

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