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Radical 90s Wizard posted:This is part of why I loved TLOU so much. The game didn't try to invent new mechanics or gimmicks, they just took pre-existing stuff and perfected it.  
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Mar 2, 2021 23:48
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BARONS CYBER SKULL posted:the thing that happened to Diablo 3 was them booting out the lead dev and going "oh right you need to give people interesting loot to make loot games" an then spent like, 7 straight years fixing the game By the time Reaper of Souls came out, just under 2 years after vanilla D3, the game was "fixed". RoS brought the adventure mode and rifts/greater rifts. Since then we've had another class and some new/revamped sets, and that's about it. But yeah, it was awful on release, and over the space of 22 months was turned into a good game. The worst part of it is that the person who fixed it then basically wrote a manifesto explaining what was wrong, and how they fixed it. Since then, there's zero excuse for making the same mistakes. Yet almost everyone still gets it wrong. Every drat time. PoE is the only loot game which actually competes with D3.
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Mar 3, 2021 00:01
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Yea? that's literally the first combat tutorial of the game, the one designed to teach you about flanking in the simplest most obvious way possible. Cool take I guess that actually the game sucked all along  you got me
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Mar 3, 2021 00:07
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Radical 90s Wizard posted:Yea? that's literally the first combat tutorial of the game, the one designed to teach you about flanking in the simplest most obvious way possible. Cool take I guess that actually the game sucked all along dude i'm just poking fun.
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Mar 3, 2021 00:09
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Look if you don't love waist high walls what the gently caress are you even doing playing video games
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Mar 3, 2021 00:15
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Decided to see how the game plays on my CPU which means I have to do the prologue again. I forgot that the combat tutorial has you use cover to fire your weapons. For a game that plays like poo poo using cover it sure makes you think it's a cover shooter in everything it does. The direction of the game had to have changed part of the way through development from using cover and being a Gears of War clone to a you stop moving, you die Doom mechanics game. Have the devs ever talked about changing direction like this? There is no way this was the mechanics from the start. Even them saying no, the cover is for the enemies, not you is complete bullshit from how they are placed.
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Mar 3, 2021 00:15
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jabro posted:Decided to see how the game plays on my CPU which means I have to do the prologue again. I forgot that the combat tutorial has you use cover to fire your weapons. For a game that plays like poo poo using cover it sure makes you think it's a cover shooter in everything it does. The direction of the game had to have changed part of the way through development from using cover and being a Gears of War clone to a you stop moving, you die Doom mechanics game. Have the devs ever talked about changing direction like this? There is no way this was the mechanics from the start. Even them saying no, the cover is for the enemies, not you is complete bullshit from how they are placed. After playing a bit it kinda feels like they initially tuned the abilities to do considerably less damage and then just leaned hard into the whole "PC is a steamrolling deathgod" idea after they realized that's where the fun was.
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Mar 3, 2021 00:20
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Retro42 posted:After playing a bit it kinda feels like they initially tuned the abilities to do considerably less damage and then just leaned hard into the whole "PC is a steamrolling deathgod" idea after they realized that's where the fun was. It's the correct direction to go. The game is more fun this way. Reminds me of that Richard Garrott space MMO. They did the same thing here of having a demo a couple weeks before release. You were basically space Rambo and just murdered everything in your path. They shut the servers off right before release and had a Day 1 patch. On release day the you couldn't shoot your way out of a paper bag. Went the opposite way and the game dies quickly.
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Mar 3, 2021 00:26
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Masonity posted:The worst part of it is that the person who fixed it then basically wrote a manifesto explaining what was wrong, and how they fixed it. Since then, there's zero excuse for making the same mistakes. This was really really funny when he posted "how 2 loot game 4 morans" at the Anthem devs and they ignored literally all of it.
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Mar 3, 2021 00:27
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Gwaihir posted:This was really really funny when he posted at the Anthem devs and they ignored literally all of it. Yeah, D3 wasn't as big a failure as FFXIV or No Man's Sky at release, but really should be mentioned in similar breaths as an unreal turnaround. How a similar game which desperately needed exactly that calibre of turnaround ignored it... Is baffling.
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Mar 3, 2021 00:32
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RagnarokZ posted:Oh yeah, because using the term "hater" is really going to convince anyone sane. Oh my god dude cry me a river LMAO
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Mar 3, 2021 00:34
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Masonity posted:Yeah, D3 wasn't as big a failure as FFXIV or No Man's Sky at release, but really should be mentioned in similar breaths as an unreal turnaround. How a similar game which desperately needed exactly that calibre of turnaround ignored it... Is baffling. bioware is mess. remember late last year two key people, one of them the studio manager, just walked out at the same time.
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Mar 3, 2021 00:35
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Rinkles posted:dude i'm just poking fun. how dare you 
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Mar 3, 2021 00:44
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Sylphosaurus posted:Man, sure is a lot of haters here. The demo pretty much convinced me to get the game at release. It feels fun and I actually enjoy the irreverent tone of the plot. I really didn't hate the game, I just don't think it feels like a game I should spend full price on based on what I've seen from the demo. The gameplay is engaging enough that in spite of the problems I have with it I'll keep it wishlisted but will probably wait for the first sale before picking it up. I did find the story and cutscenes really bad but it doesn't help when the framerate is so janky and the voice acting is just not what I would call good. This isn't a dealbreaker for me tho because I have no problems skipping em 
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Mar 3, 2021 00:56
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After playing through the demo a second time, (and finally getting to keep my character) I've decided this game is fun enough to get, barring any unexpected financial hiccups between now and then. When I played Division 2, I always wanted to be able to lean into a more techno-magic support type build, but it always seemed just out of reach/too grounded in keeping the "plausibly realistic" vibe going. I'm aware that Div2 probably changed a lot since I last played, but that was my experience with it. If this game lets me be a space wizard with weird rear end guns, I'm down to spend some money on it if only to encourage that kind of thing. I do wish Outriders' cover system was a little "stickier," if that's the proper word for it. If I press the button to get into cover, I mean it, game.
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Mar 3, 2021 00:57
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i'll probably pick it up when it's significantly cheaper and the technical issues are ironed out
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Mar 3, 2021 00:58
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jabro posted:It's the correct direction to go. The game is more fun this way. Reminds me of that Richard Garrott space MMO. They did the same thing here of having a demo a couple weeks before release. You were basically space Rambo and just murdered everything in your path. They shut the servers off right before release and had a Day 1 patch. On release day the you couldn't shoot your way out of a paper bag. Went the opposite way and the game dies quickly. the devs would release monthly, hurried patches of spotty content for a year or so, but ultimately the "players will create their own content through PvP!!" thing failed incredibly fifteen hours of content in an mmo lol
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Mar 3, 2021 00:58
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Considering how good having all build-complementing blues are, plus the crafting info from the video, I'd say loot is actually looking really good. The insane people who are grinding for legendaries in the demo and dismantle all their crap are going to have a ton of mods for crafting The current epic/legendary drop rates are irrelevant in the demo with the cap at world tier 5, the rates are higher in higher tiers so we'll have to wait for the full game to judge but I'm not getting the vibe that they're going to be stingy with stuff
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Mar 3, 2021 00:59
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BARONS CYBER SKULL posted:the thing that happened to Diablo 3 was them booting out the lead dev and going "oh right you need to give people interesting loot to make loot games" an then spent like, 7 straight years fixing the game I think what I liked least about Diablo 3 was that you couldn't do any really weird builds like Diablo 2. You *could* do a melee wizard in Diablo 3, but it still wasn't anything compared to doing a melee sorc in D2.
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Mar 3, 2021 01:12
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eonwe posted:I think what I liked least about Diablo 3 was that you couldn't do any really weird builds like Diablo 2. You *could* do a melee wizard in Diablo 3, but it still wasn't anything compared to doing a melee sorc in D2. it's unfortunate but they were stuck with what came down the pipe originally when fixing everything up, seems like D4 is doing much the same thing also, though the great march of streamlining has it's winners and losers sadly
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Mar 3, 2021 01:18
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It took me a while to accept that weapons were nothing more than stat sticks
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Mar 3, 2021 01:18
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Masonity posted:By the time Reaper of Souls came out, just under 2 years after vanilla D3, the game was "fixed". RoS brought the adventure mode and rifts/greater rifts. Iirc the big loot system revamp that weighted drops to be appropriate for your class and have the correct mainstat + added unique properties to legendaries so you could build around them was put in like a month before ROS as part of the marketing for it. Which was a brilliant move that Destiny and the Division have both copied at various points when the games have started to die off.
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Mar 3, 2021 01:19
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Masonity posted:Yeah, D3 wasn't as big a failure as FFXIV or No Man's Sky at release, but really should be mentioned in similar breaths as an unreal turnaround. How a similar game which desperately needed exactly that calibre of turnaround ignored it... Is baffling. D3 deserves the poo poo it gets for the drop rates, (RM)AH, Inferno and pretty much all the live service stuff. I don't think the original team gets enough credit for the objectively good design decisions in the game, which is almost everything the D2 playerbase considered negative. Like it was poo poo, and is still poo poo in a lot of the ways live service games all are, but there were definitely things that other games need to learn from. Roman posted:Considering how good having all build-complementing blues are, plus the crafting info from the video, I'd say loot is actually looking really good. The insane people who are grinding for legendaries in the demo and dismantle all their crap are going to have a ton of mods for crafting Having the mods not shared across in the stash is literally my only complaint with the described system. I mean if the stash exists then it's probably for gear transfer, and gear transfer means the guy with all the mods can do it for anyone anyway, so why not just cut out the middle man? The only way I can see this making sense is if modding an item locks it to a specific character, in which case the mod storage really discourages alts in a way that isn't needed.
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Mar 3, 2021 01:52
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SmallpoxJenkins posted:The only scene you need to watch is the one of Eva giving you the insane "gently caress ME" eyes when you go to her shop That's the same look I give guns so fairs fair.
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Mar 3, 2021 01:56
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SmallpoxJenkins posted:The only scene you need to watch is the one of Eva giving you the insane "gently caress ME" eyes when you go to her shop This seemed weird to me considering you just rescued her from Barker's likely sex dungeon.
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Mar 3, 2021 02:44
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Also why did they make her look like budget Jessie from FF7R
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Mar 3, 2021 02:47
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They know what these nerds like
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Mar 3, 2021 03:08
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Okay, finally got out of the dumb prologue and played a bit of Devastator and I am actually feeling this. It was story difficulty, granted but I actually felt powerful in a way that I usually do not feel in these looter shooters. Color me interested.
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Mar 3, 2021 03:25
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RagnarokZ posted:Oh yeah, because using the term "hater" is really going to convince anyone sane. You're calling a game that hasn't even released absolute poo poo, that's basically the definition of hating it... You also appear to have some weird vendetta against square enix for some reason.
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Mar 3, 2021 03:33
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Unlucky7 posted:Okay, finally got out of the dumb prologue and played a bit of Devastator and I am actually feeling this. It was story difficulty, granted but I actually felt powerful in a way that I usually do not feel in these looter shooters. Color me interested. You actually start to get gear with meaningful mods that actually can change how you play and make you feel even more powerful before you get done with the demo also. At a demo-capped level 7 and WT5 my devastator just smashes everything, it's pretty awesome.
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Mar 3, 2021 03:39
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I tried the demo when it first came out and thought it was horrible, that prologue is so not a good introduction to the game, been reading the thread and decided to give it another shot now that I can skip the prologue on different characters, and its kinda fun. The powers are really fun to use, have tried all 4 classes so far, I've liked all of them and they seem to have some different playstyles at least this early in the game, I like how the Technomancer and Pyro are more tactical while the Devastator and Trickster just run up and get the enemies faces. The loot and crafting look like they have potential too, but whoo that prologue was something. Could ICR actually have a win here? Or as recent history suggests will the game fall of a cliff once we get out of the demo areas. $47 on GMG right now so might take a chance. I thought the Marvel Avengers 'beta' was complete garbage but got caught up in the post launch hype and regretted it but at least the demo for this is dumb fun if nothing else.
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Mar 3, 2021 03:59
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The Locator posted:You actually start to get gear with meaningful mods that actually can change how you play and make you feel even more powerful before you get done with the demo also. At a demo-capped level 7 and WT5 my devastator just smashes everything, it's pretty awesome.
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Mar 3, 2021 04:04
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Ugh, why is there a Walk Toggle? Why is it next to the movement keys? Not sure if I want to commit yet (though $47 is tempting), but I have my eye on this now. I mean, I liked Avengers for its campaign, so if this can give me that much I would be happy.
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Mar 3, 2021 04:07
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Rinkles posted:It took me a while to accept that weapons were nothing more than stat sticks That's functionally true for many D2 builds as well (Trapsin, Werebear, etc.) the only difference is that there's never any reason to use autoattack.
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Mar 3, 2021 11:45
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Fried Sushi posted:Could ICR actually have a win here? It's entirely possible this will be his best call, but the bar on that is so low that it's not saying much. I anticipate the full version will get largely the same reactions as the demo did in this thread. The vast majority will write it off for the campaign. A sadly large group of people will write it off for not being a service game. A few nut jobs will get deep into modding and laugh off the terrible cutscenes. It'll be a 6 or 7 on metacritic, which puts it into trash game territory for the bulk of the internet.
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Mar 3, 2021 12:27
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is this loss?
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Mar 3, 2021 13:24
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I know goons are going to love this game and all power to them, but I found it very lacklustre. Pros I played Trickster, didn't bother with others, but abilities were satisfying and gave a visceral sense of being powerful. Visually fairly nice. It's going to have co-op and god knows it would be nice to have some fun shooty co-op games. Cons Writing and story bad to very bad. Dialogue is stilted and weird, plot beats are schizophrenic and characterisation yo-yos around a lot. In fairness, nobody should care too hard about these things, but it still falls far short of competency. Also the idea that only 50-60,000 people are left alive is hilariously and jarringly at odds with the grimdarkness meatgrinder reality they portray. I assume throughout the main story and sidequests of the main game you'll personally account for about half that number, not least the zillions slaughtered in cinematics. Gunplay is pretty dull and feels very anaemic in comparison to something like Destiny, and feels mostly like a slightly cheap knockoff of Mass Effect's combat, which is a critical failing in a game all about gunplay. Mission structure is terrible and formulaic, and consists entirely of on rails segments with a miniature horde of enemies until you clear that section and move to another identical segment in a different area. Rinse and repeat until endboss/object retrieval. You already know you're going to be playing a singleplayer MMO, with the sidemissions being uninspired and drab while main story missions of which there will inevitably only be a moderate number, later bolstered by expansions probably, will be short but beautifully created setpieces that will try their best to veil the fact that the majority of the content in the game is those drab side missions. Movement is clunky because it lacks flow, and being unable to jump feels like an anachronism, but is strictly necessary because you're playing in a narrow corridor with Star Trek-esque painted backgrounds hemmed in by claustrophobic invisible walls. It only feels like it works moving from cover to cover, which is unfortunate because the game is at it's worst played as a cover shooter rather than exercising your effective godhood up close and personal. It's not fair to judge the looting aspect from the demo, but all signs point to nothing interesting going on whatsoever. The usual colour gradings of identical weapons with fairly uninspired additional bonuses. All the weapon archetypes regardless of rarity or descriptor seemed to have identical accuracy/stability statistics and felt the same. There's a crafting system you can't touch yet, but seems to involve mining nodes scattered during levels which seems uninteresting and grindy. Starter mission hub was catastrophically awful, soulless and uninteresting. Only played for a few hours and was already extremely sick of hearing the same voicelines over and over (also a lot of weird subtitle overriding issues). For a finished part of the game trying to sell itself, they could have at least tried to dupe their players better. Conclusion A tonne more nits to pick with what was only a short demo, but I've whined enough. If the game was trying to present the best of itself to convince people to buy it, they did a lovely job. Only recommended for people with the most terminal of looter-shooter brainworms.
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Mar 3, 2021 15:13
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jabro posted:Decided to see how the game plays on my CPU which means I have to do the prologue again. I forgot that the combat tutorial has you use cover to fire your weapons. For a game that plays like poo poo using cover it sure makes you think it's a cover shooter in everything it does. I think the easiest explanation is that it is a cover shooter, but a pretty bad and bland one. And the only way to make it even remotely fun is to just ignore all the tutorials and level design, and just run and gun as much as you can.
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Mar 3, 2021 15:21
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Jeza posted:I know goons are going to love this game and all power to them, but I found it very lacklustre. At least you got further than me. I downloaded the demo, launched it and uninstalled it. If I am on the fence about a game, throwing up barriers like having to create and / or link accounts is not going to pull me in.
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Mar 3, 2021 15:46
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DaitoX posted:At least you got further than me. I downloaded the demo, launched it and uninstalled it. That almost stopped me, but I'm glad I got past it. I enjoy the gameplay, even if all the complaints about the setting/dialog/cutscenes are valid.
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Mar 3, 2021 16:40
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