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Hodgepodge
Jan 29, 2006


tbh for all that i love snyder's take on supes, he just looks sad compared to the original who gives no fucks about how his actions are spun and does the right thing

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The United States
Jul 18, 2004

Please grab the extinguisher


Melman v2

Both Singer and Snyder supes are fundamentally responses to 9/11 which is why they take on such morose tones even when their messages are ultimately optimistic

The United States fucked around with this message at 09:24 on May 21, 2021

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




Superman as a Darth Vader riff would be almost too on the nose given he'd literally be a slave to Darkseid. And way more interesting than most takes on Evil Superman.

HUNDU THE BEAST GOD
Sep 14, 2007

everything is yours


Hodgepodge posted:

tbh for all that i love snyder's take on supes, he just looks sad compared to the original who gives no fucks about how his actions are spun and does the right thing

Well, I mean, that's how you'd do it if you were just gonna make him right all the time, you'd just unambiguously make him a communist.

Mandrel
Sep 24, 2006



HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:

Well, I mean, that's how you'd do it if you were just gonna make him right all the time, you'd just unambiguously make him a communist.

I mean yeah, thatís what I want to see. Snyderís was in the right direction in terms of that being the possible/implied logical endpoint of his/his worldĎa character arc, but we never got the chance to get there.

I want a peopleís Superman completely assured in his rightness as a foregone conclusion, not as a pretense to have that rightness torn down in some cynical neoliberal commentary, but instead as a fixed point where the character development that takes place is those around himís; humanity and subsequently the systemís. They will stumble, they will fall, but inevitably they join him in the sun. Real an ideal to strive for poo poo that results in a world fundamentally and dramatically changed for the better rather than incrementally restored to a marginally better version of the status quo

Neurolimal
Nov 3, 2012


I'd be into a Red Son where lex luthor doesn't own superman with a quip

Anyways, I dont mind Evil Superman stories, there's a lot of space to say different things about such, and I've seen very few Evil Superman stories I've disliked. The problematic ties to individualism superheroes have means there's a lot of leeway for lefty readings when there's a malevolent godlike force to rail against.

I'm all for a Good Superman who is unapologetically political and reveling in it though. The scene where Superman spikes a US drone into the soil, but the entire movie.

2house2fly
Nov 14, 2012

You did a super job wrapping things up! And I'm not just saying that because I have to!

It was cool to read Red Son and realise that's probably where the "one character uses a single sentence to stop another character in their tracks" plot point in BvS came from

Grendels Dad
Mar 5, 2011

Popular culture has passed you by.

Mandrel posted:

I mean yeah, that’s what I want to see. Snyder’s was in the right direction in terms of that being the possible/implied logical endpoint of his/his world‘a character arc, but we never got the chance to get there.

I want a people’s Superman completely assured in his rightness as a foregone conclusion, not as a pretense to have that rightness torn down in some cynical neoliberal commentary, but instead as a fixed point where the character development that takes place is those around him’s; humanity and subsequently the system’s. They will stumble, they will fall, but inevitably they join him in the sun. Real an ideal to strive for poo poo that results in a world fundamentally and dramatically changed for the better rather than incrementally restored to a marginally better version of the status quo

Shin Superman, but the political decisions happen first and then Superman steps into frame, arms folded, and says "No."

SuperMechagodzilla
Jun 9, 2007

NEWT REBORN


Ghost Leviathan posted:

Superman as a Darth Vader riff would be almost too on the nose given he'd literally be a slave to Darkseid. And way more interesting than most takes on Evil Superman.

I think it's pretty clearly the throughline. Man Of Steel established Superman as this virtuous and ethical person, then BVS goes into his ideological limitations and all-too-human weaknesses (e.g. his fear of being deemed 'too radical', the tendency to prioritize the safety of his family over all else...) .

Justice League ends with an obvious ethical regression, where Clark 'embraces his human side'. The black suit is literally honoring the Superman who died, and consequently means "I am not Superman; I am trying to be, but I am only human".

So, the question left hanging is: can we actually have a radical Superman? What would that look like? And, you know, wouldn't the Wayne Enterprises Justice League be evil from his point of view?

Xealot
Nov 25, 2002

Showdown in the Galaxy Era.



2house2fly posted:

It was cool to read Red Son and realise that's probably where the "one character uses a single sentence to stop another character in their tracks" plot point in BvS came from

To be fair, Snyder also does something similar in Watchmen, where the "final weapon" Veidt uses to stop Dr. Manhattan is turning on a wall of TVs. "Superhuman figure halted by a small, symbolic gesture" probably has a bunch of past precedent in comics and elsewhere.

Hodgepodge
Jan 29, 2006


SuperMechagodzilla posted:

I think it's pretty clearly the throughline. Man Of Steel established Superman as this virtuous and ethical person, then BVS goes into his ideological limitations and all-too-human weaknesses (e.g. his fear of being deemed 'too radical', the tendency to prioritize the safety of his family over all else...) .

Justice League ends with an obvious ethical regression, where Clark 'embraces his human side'. The black suit is literally honoring the Superman who died, and consequently means "I am not Superman; I am trying to be, but I am only human".

So, the question left hanging is: can we actually have a radical Superman? What would that look like? And, you know, wouldn't the Wayne Enterprises Justice League be evil from his point of view?

There's also a link, possibly self-conscious, to Luke and Anakin dressing in black in their respective third films, as they stray towards the dark side.

Mandrel
Sep 24, 2006



SuperMechagodzilla posted:

I think it's pretty clearly the throughline. Man Of Steel established Superman as this virtuous and ethical person, then BVS goes into his ideological limitations and all-too-human weaknesses (e.g. his fear of being deemed 'too radical', the tendency to prioritize the safety of his family over all else...) .

Justice League ends with an obvious ethical regression, where Clark 'embraces his human side'. The black suit is literally honoring the Superman who died, and consequently means "I am not Superman; I am trying to be, but I am only human".

So, the question left hanging is: can we actually have a radical Superman? What would that look like? And, you know, wouldn't the Wayne Enterprises Justice League be evil from his point of view?

Itís an interesting thought, I think for storytelling purposes youíve probably already got your hands full grappling with a setting where Radical Superman is the only super there is. But if Batman and crew are around, then yeah. I would imagine any positive resolution of the Superman/Batman relationship here would have to involve Batman learning from Superman to eventually stop needing (pathologically) to be Batman and ultimately dissolving or otherwise transforming Wayne Enterprises into something else entirely and giving those financial resources completely to the people to transform society. I donít think Communist Superman necessarily is Ascetic Monk Superman and requires Wayne to go full pauper to atone, since the goal is to lift all people up and the resources exist to do so. But he world heís building canít include the inherent systemic evil of billionaires hanging out just because theyíre kind of well-intentioned, and any Batman that co-exists with his ideology understands that too and works towards that same goal.

I guess a radicalized Batman who works the figurative institutional street level with Superman in his quest to root out individual and local vectors of systemic injustice would be something. Superman is functionally all powerful but heís not omniscient and omnipresent. Somebodyís still gotta figure out where the Klan meeting is going down and identify those guys before they do damage, while Supes is off working the macro level, disassembling the stateís tools of violence monopolization or putting Raytheonís board of directors into the phantom zone or whatever.

I dunno, Iím probably thinking too small. I suppose humanity joining him in the sun includes Wayne and friends too, in an optimistic version of the story.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




Justice League Unlimited made a point that Batman specifically recruited Green Arrow because he's basically the leftist vigilante Batman, and the kind of gadfly they need, though they only went so far with that.

McSpanky
Jan 16, 2005







Grendels Dad posted:

Shin Superman, but the political decisions happen first and then Superman steps into frame, arms folded, and says "No."

This is just Daddy Superman Makes Everything Right on the other side of the line.

Mantis42
Jul 26, 2010



Red Son but he lands in the Khmer Rouge instead.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




Figures that Robot Chicken is the only thing I know of that makes anything out of Superman and Santa being neighbours.

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.



Ghost Leviathan posted:

Figures that Robot Chicken is the only thing I know of that makes anything out of Superman and Santa being neighbours.

They did Superman Red, Superman Blue, but not Superman White Christmas

Darko
Dec 23, 2004



Ghost Leviathan posted:

Figures that Robot Chicken is the only thing I know of that makes anything out of Superman and Santa being neighbours.

Blood Boils
Dec 27, 2006

Its not an S, on my planet it means QUIPS


Hair Elf

Is that a reindeer skin lmao

bushisms.txt
May 26, 2004

Scroll, then. There are other posts than these.



Blood Boils posted:

Is that a reindeer skin lmao

Good to see DC showing healthy kink in relationships

KVeezy3
Aug 18, 2005

Airport Music for Black Folk


Can someone explain why my two dad's are upset with each other in that strip?

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.



Yeah what issue is that lol

mastershakeman
Oct 28, 2008


Mantis42 posted:

Red Son but he lands in the Khmer Rouge instead.
Can get a solid montage out of how to hide his identity in a society where eyeglasses are banned

Hodgepodge
Jan 29, 2006


mastershakeman posted:

Can get a solid montage out of how to hide his identity in a society where eyeglasses are banned

look there are two white dudes in Cambodia, Ngyuen Thent and the Superman

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




KVeezy3 posted:

Can someone explain why my two dad's are upset with each other in that strip?

Silver Age plots are never quite what the covers promise, but often still some absolutely wild poo poo.

Detective No. 27
Jun 7, 2006



Ghost Leviathan posted:

Silver Age plots are never quite what the covers promise, but often still some absolutely wild poo poo.

I have heard that the cover artists used to make the most outlandish covers to gently caress with the writers.

You figure they'd be the comics equivalent of clickbait. After reading a lot of Jimmy Oleson comics, I can attest that the stories are often crazier than what the cover suggests.

Mr. Apollo
Nov 8, 2000



John Des Jardin, who is Zackís VFX supervisor, said that the Flash time travel sequence is the first thing WB cut after Snyder left because the execs didnít understand it.

https://youtu.be/uhKEbMK8OBc

Jerk McJerkface
Jan 16, 2004

LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX



Soiled Meat

Mr. Apollo posted:

John Des Jardin, who is Zackís VFX supervisor, said that the Flash time travel sequence is the first thing WB cut after Snyder left because the execs didnít understand it.

https://youtu.be/uhKEbMK8OBc

The Warner Brothers need take control of their studio back and fire everyone

Robot Style
Jul 5, 2009



Mr. Apollo posted:

John Des Jardin, who is Zackís VFX supervisor, said that the Flash time travel sequence is the first thing WB cut after Snyder left because the execs didnít understand it.

https://youtu.be/uhKEbMK8OBc

From the sounds of it, that sequence went to entirely a different studio for the Snyder Cut. The studio I was at during JL shut down at the end of 2019, but still has other locations open in other countries, so I assumed the work just to one of them. But if the Flash sequence went somewhere else, it's possible the entire third act had to be done from scratch by other vendors, which is insane for 7 months of work.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




Jerk McJerkface posted:

The Warner Brothers need take control of their studio back and fire everyone

I can picture Yakko, Wakko and Dot doing a better job at management.

Detective No. 27 posted:

I have heard that the cover artists used to make the most outlandish covers to gently caress with the writers.

You figure they'd be the comics equivalent of clickbait. After reading a lot of Jimmy Oleson comics, I can attest that the stories are often crazier than what the cover suggests.

It's pretty funny but impressive that they used what you'd think would be a bottom-of-the-barrel spinoff series featuring a deliberately ridiculously average guy to go full ham with worldbuilding and crazy cosmic concepts like the New Gods.

well why not
Feb 9, 2009





KVeezy3 posted:

Can someone explain why my two dad's are upset with each other in that strip?

Heís giving him a massage.

Blood Boils
Dec 27, 2006

Its not an S, on my planet it means QUIPS


Hair Elf

Jerk McJerkface posted:

The Warner Brothers need take control of their studio back and fire everyone

Aren't they dead

But yes, even so. Dead men or fictional cartoon characters could run a studio better than Hamada and Johns et al

Jimbot
Jul 22, 2008



https://twitter.com/ZackSnyder/status/1408071741172158488?s=19

Hold on to your butts, the 4k blu-ray got a release date!

Halloween Jack
Sep 11, 2003

Let your word be "Yes, Yes" or "No, No"; anything more than this comes from the evil one.




SuperMechagodzilla posted:

So, the question left hanging is: can we actually have a radical Superman? What would that look like? And, you know, wouldn't the Wayne Enterprises Justice League be evil from his point of view?
Yeah, the reason "Evil Superman" is meaningless is that what's actually scary is "Good Superman" and the fallout from that.

Grendels Dad
Mar 5, 2011

Popular culture has passed you by.

Jimbot posted:

https://twitter.com/ZackSnyder/status/1408071741172158488?s=19

Hold on to your butts, the 4k blu-ray got a release date!

Two days before I turn 40...00. Thank you, Zack.

smoobles
Sep 4, 2014



Grendels Dad posted:

Two days before I turn 40...00. Thank you, Zack.

celebrating 40 w/ a 4 hour 4K

Megaman's Jockstrap
Jul 16, 2000

What a horrible thread to have a post.


smoobles posted:

celebrating 40 w/ a 4 hour 4K

One of the few posts I've read that I would describe as "buttery". That is some delicious alliteration, thanks.

Strom Cuzewon
Jul 1, 2010



Halloween Jack posted:

Yeah, the reason "Evil Superman" is meaningless is that what's actually scary is "Good Superman" and the fallout from that.

There was some short film about this like 10 years ago, about a faceless emotionless alien vigilante who would basically drop minor criminals to their deaths. It was pretty cool, and I feel like the utter dehumanisation of it was a different take from the other evil Superman takes I've seen.

Tuxedo Catfish
Mar 17, 2007

You've got guts! Come to my village, I'll buy you lunch.


That's still kind of dancing around the really scary outcome, which is just Superman with the moral compass of an American boy from Kansas.

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Megaman's Jockstrap
Jul 16, 2000

What a horrible thread to have a post.


Tuxedo Catfish posted:

That's still kind of dancing around the really scary outcome, which is just Superman with the moral compass of an American boy from Kansas.

Superman confidently standing in front of a burning library that he just eye-lasered, assuring us all it was full of nothing but books on critical race theory.

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