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Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


Guy A. Person posted:

Well as someone pointed out after the initial video it just kinda went dead. Like no press release, no statement, just complete silence.

I mean I think itís pretty clear cut he assaulted someone and would never try to speculate beyond that but thatís definitely been their strategy to just hope it goes away

Edit: regarding the Miller thing since a few posts passed by

I think that was me, and yeah I looked into it

No charges were made, no statements, nothing from the victim or the people she was with, nothing from Miller.

The only people that seemed to care were the people who filmed it, who were NOT the people Miller assaulted.

It could be a case where it looked worse than it was, it could be a case where they went to those people and offered them an apology (and a lot of money) it could be a lot of poo poo. But whatever it was, apparently the people involved either did not care enough to push it or were able to be talked into not going into it.

I tend to lean harder on the former because Miller isn't exactly a big name- it'd be easy for the studio to throw him under the bus- but this is literally like

Not even hearsay because we never got to the stage of accusation

Gal is, whatever. She has lovely opinions and probably isn't the best person. Leto is a case of why the hell is he still getting work across the board. I can understand wanting to keep things consistent with your actors but, seriously.

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Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


Milkfred E. Moore posted:

Anyway, once I get this superhero novel published I'll be able to stand at the side of Daddy Snyder and be accused of being an objectivist frat-bro.

You too?

Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


Nodosaur posted:

Heís another black and grey CGI monstrosity thatís lost all the Neo-fantasy esque touches of his original design to do a big angry guy in space armor.

Nod, buddy, that is Darkseid's design. His color pallet is grey, black, red, maybe dark blue if he's feeling saucy.

The only difference is that his miniskirt is armored instead of leather. Its frankly a step up from his recent comic book designs which ditched his miniskirt entirely like cowards

Like yeah he's CG, but that's just unavoidable at this point. I'd prefer make-up effects for a character like him but we lost that fight eons ago

Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


Jose Oquendo posted:

His skin is very much grey. His clothing is usually blue.

But it's also been black, and has been for a while

This is taking more cues from New 52 for color scheme stuff

Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


That is something I've been wondering

IS Darkseid's armor black? Or is that just the lighting?

Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


Snowman_McK posted:

yeah, the sex scenes in legend of the overfiend kind of make you wish for some horrifying violence to get the taste out of your mouth. Then violence comes along and doesn't get the taste of your mouth at all and you just wish you were watching something else.

Legend of overfiend benefits from being made before the internet because at that point it wasbasically the only game in town for hosed up porn poo poo from Japan

I have no idea how today's youth would even react to it

Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


Roth posted:

The hero at the end will be Rorschach reading the comics who then spends thirty minutes criticizing it for not being objectivist enough.

Its going to be a Power Ranger and herald Zack Snyder's Power Rangers

Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


Machete I need you to delete this thread and make a new one so that I do not have to live in a reality where this is proposed and never happens

Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


It sounds like it might be expanded but yeah

That's what I expected after Leto Joker

Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


Spacebump posted:

I wish HBO would just release it this week.

Good news!

Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


ImpAtom posted:

Yeah I see people arguing that the leak was actually WB intentionally trying to ruin Zach Snyder because... something something?

People are being touchy because of past bullshit from the studio.

But if that was the case, it would have been left up long enough to get ripped and it'd be plastered all over torrent sites and everything. The only way for that to 'hurt' Snyder is for it to get leaked online and impact the actual release views.

That didn't happen and this reads more like a genuine mistake.

Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


Snowman_McK posted:

It's a really tricky villain to write well, the kind that's simply a dominant force that wants to rule for its own sake. We struggle to even understand real people like that, and tend to work hard to humanise them. And so our fictional supervillains tend to get boiled down too. Even in Warhammer 40k, a place full of characters that could be that kind of force, they tend to reduce the motivations of their most villainous villains to blends of daddy issues, insecurity and personal revenge. Just writing someone that wants to rule, and will, because he can, who won't make concessions or negotiate or back down because they do not have to and never have before, is hard. Because putting yourself in those shoes is so far beyond the normal human viewpoint.

Its why Darkseid works so great.

The trick with Darkseid is, it doesn't matter where he shows up. Super Friends, Harley Quinn, DCAU, comics, books, movies, games- anywhere and everywhere, Darkseid is the same.

Maybe he gets a funny quirk that's kind of horrifying when you stop to think about it, like wanting Wonder Woman for his queen (including being fully willing and ready to mind control her into full obedience, otherwise planning to break her into it) or being kind of snarky/weirdly understanding

But Darkseid is pure villainy. He is peak 1980s cartoon villain, played deathly serious from day one. He doesn't espouse the virtues of evil because he doesn't have to. He will dominate the universe and place all beneath his heel. He is tyranny personified.

Its why he's so ubiquitous. He's Space Age Satan.

Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


Snowman_McK posted:

I like this example because you can imagine how it would play out compared to most other villains. With most, you would get the scene where she says 'I'll never really love you' and that would bother the villain. They would do their best to actually win her over and convince her. This would give the other heroes time, distracting the villain, and also probably give Wonder Woman an opening. Darkseid wouldn't give a poo poo. Compelled obediance and love are still obediance and love to him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RaeYz7Ndq2k

He is a psychopath even in his goofiest, silliest incarnation.

Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


Gonna talk about a rapey comic so if that's a sore spot, please don't read what follows








There was a comic where they tried to clumsily have Darkseid rape Granny Goodness, when she was younger. Like, threatened her position in his empire if she didn't put out.

This completely misses the point of Darkseid and Apokalips- and even her, herself.

Let's ignore how out of character that is for Darkseid, flat out. I'll point out why in a moment, but let's ignore that. If her LIVING GOD and avatar of morality came to her seeking sex, she would not resist. Not because she's into Darkseid, but because he IS Darkseid. This is something that the DCAU gets across expertly in Superman- Darkseid IS God to these people. Whatever Darkseid wants, they give willingly and without thought. Whatever Darkseid says is truth. That's the whole horror and tragedy of Darkseid's followers. That is the only life they have ever known.

The reason it doesn't work for Darkseid is that it misunderstands what he is. Darkseid doesn't care about sex, or gender or any thing like that. The only woman he ever loved was before he became Darkseid, and everything after that has always been extremely pragmatic. More, the comic presented this entirely as a sex for services thing. Give me what I want and I'll give you what you want

That's not how Darkseid thinks. He wouldn't be offering her anything. He also wouldn't be coming to her for sex but that's neither here nor there.

Darkseid doesn't view women as lesser then men- his most powerful warriors are women. He judges by ability alone. Utility. The whole reason Super Friends Darkseid wanted Wonder Woman to be his queen was because he judged her as the only woman powerful enough to deserve such a role, to rule beside him- it all comes back to power. To control. He didn't fall for Wondy for her beauty- he even makes note of this in that clip I shared above. When her powers are gone his interest in her wanes.

The other reason it flat out doesn't work is who Granny Goodness is.

As GL implied, Granny Goodness is a monster. Trying to write her off as a victim of Darkseid cheapens what and who she is. Granny Goodness is the slave master of Apokalips, the one who takes otherwise normal or decent people and twists them into the Furies. She leads psycho death cults and does it with a sneering, twisted demeanor. To make her a victim of Darkseid in that way is insulting for SO many reasons.

Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


Golden Bee posted:

I donít feel like people whoíve posted in this thread for years are a non-biased audience and if the movie is good, anymore than you could post in the beer thread on the food forum about the values of teetoling. Reactions after everyone has watched it are ultimately more meaningful than review deconstruction.

I really hope they spend at least 40 seconds of Alfred explaining tea to wonder woman tho, that sounds wonderful

The same can be said for those who have already written it off, though.

Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


Detective No. 27 posted:

This isn't a regular ol' director's cut.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndKWCwbLdq4

Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


Yeah, from all reports, this is the cut that he had been working on before he got removed. There was a bunch of misinformation that he did extensive reshoots, but those were apparently much, much less than people were implying.

While the studio was asking for a 2 hour cut, he was hoping he could convince them otherwise. And then everything that happened happened.

Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


Zaphod42 posted:

I guess you guys got me and I'm snyderpilled now :cheeky: Had fun watching the BvS stream with y'all, gonna try to stay up for Snydercut but I may have to crash before the end.

We're glad to have you, genuinely. It's so much more fun to enjoy things, even if they're not perfect

Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


Hollismason posted:

Well it took almost all day but I finally finished it. Hated the aspect ratio , but really loved the movie. Its just more coherent than Whedon's garbage. Definitely a tonally different movie. Probably one of the better director's cuts out ther with how many change are made in this.

I was hoping you'd come around Holls.

I consume a LOT of old loving media, so I never even noticed the aspect ratio. I do feel for the people that it bugs though.

This is a movie that, if you really do give it a shot, it will reward you.

Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


Phenotype posted:

My cousin actually didn't even notice Martha turned out to be Jon Jonzz in that scene -- there are so many long drawn-out dialogue-free cuts that he just got in the habit of looking at another screen between scenes and missed the transition. :v:

Maybe a plot hole, maybe just something I missed: why didn't Darkseid remember that the anti-life equation was on Earth? They had that flashback showing him squaring off with ancient Atlanteans and Amazons hundreds of years ago, and he pounds the ground and the symbol shows up, right? Why did Steppenwolf have to rediscover it? Didn't anyone make a note of the coordinates or whatever?

Someone else covers this but Darkseid and the Amazons flat out state it as well-

Darkseid isn't an alien, like Superman is. Apokalips isn't in our solar system, it isn't in our galaxy. It's not even in our universe.

Darkseid is from Fourth World, his own reality, and he is invading the multiverse itself.

So very likely he has been to multiple Earths, all over creation. Only one has the Anti Life Equation and its more a matter of luck than knowledge to find out which is which.

Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


Ghost Leviathan posted:

I mentioned before, but Darkseid's favourite son is the one who specifically turned against him and became a hero.

There's some fun Mythological God lore going on with Darkseid and friends because of Kirby.

The best thing about Orion, not only is he the only son that Darkseid favors and likes, but it goes deeper and more hosed than that. Kalibak is his first kid who he had with a woman he genuinely loved and cherished. He does not give a stone cold gently caress about Kalibak despite being the only thing left of that union after his mom murdered his lover. Any other character, that would be his boy- nope. Darkseid tells him to go play in the street.

Orion on the flip side, Darkseid LITERALLY only has him so he can make a deal with New Genesis and trade infant sons. He knocks up some woman and then throws her into the freezer, literally, in case he can use her later for psychological reasons against Orion. If you told me she was artificially inseminated, I'd buy it. She's also not a great person as we'd see years later but the main point is, Darkseid did not give a single poo poo about her. She was just a handy womb to birth a pawn.

So of course *that's* the kid Darkseid likes.

And Scott is Scott is Scott

Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


I can get why people would find it creepy, but I also get why Barry and Iris are so important to a lot of people that this relationship would get that kind of focus. That's a Clark and Lois kind of relationship only with less drama, as far as the comics go. So it felt weirdly appropriate

Her giving him the full staredown helped too

Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!



First off the top, Zaph thank you so much for coming to this thread.

I genuinely have loved reading your posts, especially after that one idiot. It's extremely nice to have someone genuinely asking questions and wanting to understand stuff even if they disagree with some of the things that I like- or we agree on more than we think. I haven't gotten to interact with you much but I wanted you to know that. You're fantastic.

Xenomrph posted:

Iíve got a question about Darkseid and Steppenwolf.

Are there Amazons and Atlanteans elsewhere in the universe? Or are they specific to Earth? Steppenwolf seems to recognize them, which means either heís been to earth before, or heís faced them elsewhere in the universe.

When Darkseid first came to earth and lit the ground up with runes, did he know heíd just found the Anti-Life Equation? Because Steppenwolf seeing the runes seems to be what clued him in.

I ask because if thatís the case, it seems like one of them might be a little slow on the uptake.

So Darkseid found the runes, knew what he was looking at, fought Amazons and Atlanteans, and then lost.
Then Steppenwolf shows up, sees Amazons and Atlanteans, and should have instantly known the Anti-Life Equation was there because theyíre the ones who kicked Darkseidís rear end the first time he found the Equation.

So either:
Darkseid didnít know what the runes meant when he first saw them (but Steppenwolf somehow did)
Steppenwolf didnít know A&As were present at the first battle (but he knows what they are when he sees them).

Also who was the person to Darkseidís left? Not Desaad, the one with the pike. Are they a comic character, or just a random lieutenant or something?


So they've explained who Granny Goodness is, but to answer your further question on her- Granny Goodness is one of the most brutal and evil of Darkseid's rulers.

She is the Slave Master, the warrior maker. She takes people and breaks their will to put them into service for Darkseid. In the Superman the Animated Series, she's the one who captured and broke Superman himself.

She is a despicable, vicious, cruel individual that embodies the worst aspects of Apokalips and Darkseid's rule.



For Darkseid and company in general, this is something the movie flat out confirms but only in dialogue and its SUPER easy to miss. They are not from this universe. The Amazons state this out right and Darkseid mentions it obliquely.

Fourth World is another plane of existence and Darkseid and pals have to travel to the material universe to gently caress with us. But because its unrooted from the universe, they're not just attacking *one* place. The Amazons state outright that Darkseid comes from Another Universe, and Darkseid mentions that his plans involve subjugating the entire Multiverse.

So you can infer from there that Darkseid is invading multiple universes, all at the same time. He has more than likely encountered multiple Earths, multiple versions of the Amazons and Old Gods and such. So if he did know that the Anti Life equation was on *an* Earth, he wouldn't have known specifically which one, especially in the way they had to flee the planet.

And I think its implied that when he found the equation, it wasn't quite right. It was unfinished still- no Omega symbol. Steppenwolf is the one who uncovers that the entire equation is here, on this planet.

Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


FilthyImp posted:

Steven Universe and Nu She-Ra were both described as HopePunk and it was fuckin duuuuuuuumbb

I have an intense revulsion to this knowledge and I cannot express why

Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


ungulateman posted:

yeah the best post ever made about man of steel is his

He didn't talk about the Weird Fist tm

Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


bushisms.txt posted:

Zack snyder has gone too far.

Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


Asteroid Alert posted:

I'm gonna watch the Whedon cut tonight. Change my mind.

As someone else who made this mistake

I shall not

Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


Caridean posted:

psychopath: Even people who liked Snyder are usually able to admit that he doesn't give a poo poo about anyone in his movies but the central heroic figures. The amount of death and destruction for what's basically a schlocky action adventure film is weird. It's not as bad as some of his previous work but it's still there.


Hi, you're wrong, have a nice day.

Want me to explain why or would you rather stew in ignorance?

Also, fun fact, garish is not, in fact, something you also call lifeless. You cannot be lifelessly garish. Unless you're Zombie Elton John I suppose.

Pick an insult because trying to do a combo with inherently contradictory words does not, in fact, make you seem smarter. It is one or it is the other it is not both because that would imply that it is not lifeless, which is your main point, nothing to do with the actual color pallet of the film. You believe it is drab, but drab things cannot be garish. And by drab you mean lifeless.

So, take a step back, try again.

bushisms.txt posted:

Imagining people upset when Cyborg puts money in that mother's bank account.

"Has Snyder never heard of teaching a man to fish?"

As a Christian Scientist you'd think he would have

Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


Caridean posted:

Once you find a dictionary sure, but I'm not really interested in your opinion until you have a baseline understanding of the english language

Adorable.

Now if you're done you can understand that the intent of words matter more than strict definitions. You've made it especially clear what you mean, VS what the literal definitions are.

A word has more than one definition, and rarely when you use that word do you mean all of them. In fact, often, you cannot use all of them because they do not coherently go together. I know this might seem difficult to grasp but I assure you, if you try, you can. I believe in you.

Now if you're done with that, we can talk about how focusing on saving and safeguarding their fellow humans goes a long way to show how Snyder views people with power and how they have a moral obligation to help others in need, and how this is a repeated theme across the entire movie.

We can also touch on how violence and kindness are intertwined, and even necessary.

But instead if you would like to continue using psychopath as an easy insult and attributing it to a man who has done nothing to you, we can talk about that too.

Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


Caridean posted:

He's a wildly successful hollywood film director worth 10s of millions of dollars. I think he can take it, man. You don't need to protect him.

He's a person, and one of the most maligned creatives in the industry.

poo poo like this is why 'cultists' go so far to protect and fight for him. Because on the flip side, you have people who attribute mental illness, trivializing that for the record if that wasn't clear for why I singled that out and your use of it, to a man who has done nothing to them. A man who cannot and has not harmed them, and has been shown through sheer weight of support and praise to be a decent person.

For, what? What is your nebulous reasoning here? He killed some people in a movie you feel should be frivolous and silly?

How about you take a step back and rethink why insulting anyone like this is worthwhile. Why that makes you a target to those who would take offense to it.

If you want to have a conversation about the violence of the movie, come back to me. I would love to go into it with you. If you want to talk about the humanity of the work, same. I'm down.

If you just want an easy target to belittle and insult using dated, harmful terminology, you can take it and go.

Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


smug n stuff posted:

I wonder how much of the complaint has to do with the like, relative proportion of DC heroes who are actually superpowered. IIRC part of what the RLM guys said is about like how the characters are all Gods, which like, fine, either you think that's interesting or you don't, but that's something. But there are a lot of Marvel heroes who are much more like Batman than Superman, right - Hawkeye and Black Widow obviously, and while they don't play huges roles they are major characters. Same goes for the Nolan movies. Probably I'm being too reductive, but it's a definite difference.

Shockingly there are more DC heroes that are just dudes than there are Marvel heroes. Most Marvel heroes have super powers to some degree.

The difference is, in DC, you are either a Batman or you're a living deity. You've got humans and you've got Gods and not a whole lot in between.

Marvel is littered with the middle ground guys. Spider-Man, Iron Fist, dudes who have powers but aren't especially powerful.

Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


Caridean posted:

I give up.

Can't give up when you never even tried

Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


So I hold that the slowmo kind of works in this movie because it is not just a style thing- this is how the Flash sees the world. This is how he interacts with the world. So showing Wonder Woman struggling to fight through slow mo time to save someone only highlights how much more impressive it is that the Flash can move effortlessly in it.


But there is another element to it if you wanted to get a bit more pretentious. What is slow mo but the stretching of a single frame of film for maximum visual impact?

What is slow mo, if not the realization of a comic panel brought to life

Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


gregday posted:

So the problem is that it happens in lots and lots of other places where itís not warranted or adds anything, like the football game.

Its definitely VERY gratuitous, I'll grant that. I don't think anyone would disagree- though God knows some might.

I'm fine with it but it does get silly. That's not a bad thing in my book. But yeah. That's about where it is

Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


Pirate Jet posted:

Justice is Gray Edition is up on HBO Max. Sorry folks, still no We live in a society line.

Is that scene different at all?

Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


Edward Mass posted:

Batman said the F word, film delivers.

"Must Batman say gently caress?"

"He does."

Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


So, you know

Capitalism

Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


Detective No. 27 posted:

Cyborg still needed Superman's strength to pull apart the mother boxes. And it didn't look like Superman did it effortlessly.

SUperman's also the only reason Cyborg got a shot at entering it to begin with.

They simply didn't have time on their side. Cyborg needed to deal with the boxes and Aquaman and Wonder Woman needed Cyborg to deal with Steppenwolf

Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


McCloud posted:

Wait, is that why lex wasn't bothered by doomsday? Because he was planning on Darkseids minions cleaning up his mess?

I'm pretty sure he was expecting to die, if I'm being honest

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Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


roffels posted:

ZS JL sequence of events:

Flash time travels and gives Victor the charge to interface and separate the Motherbox.

Victor enters and exits the Motherbox realm, Superman helps separate the motherboxes.

Flash is nowhere to be seen.

Flash is missing up until after Darkseid steps on Steppenwolf's head, when he zips into frame. Where was Flash all that time? Cut sequence? Editing error?

I have a theory on how Flash's time travel works.

Namely, Flash cannot remain in the period of time he travels to. He snaps back to his relative present, like a rubber band.

This isn't super noticeable when he's traveling like, barely a fraction of a second back

But when he goes back a little bit more, he'll just straight vanish after he's done doing his thing because he's back where he started and people have to catch up

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