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Sodomy Hussein
Oct 9, 2005



This is a fairly substantial improvement but the movie has gone from being an obvious, bleeding hackjob to being an hour too long.

It has many minutes of stuff that could be cut out, losing nothing. All the MMH stuff, everything but the last mention of the Anti-Life Equation, most scenes of Steppenwolf talking to DeSaad (including one that establishes nothing new from a previous scene), and so on.

Too much voiceover during epic battle sequences. They add a bunch of Motherbox fluff and yet there's still barely anything to explain.

Some new, much better effects (Steppenwolf generally, several fun explosions), some new, incredibly awful effects (the walls outside Arkham).

The last hour is much better. The Cyborg stuff is mostly a lot better, though the whole payoff to Chekhov's laser is the most Zack Snydery thing ever.

quote:

Anybody who knows JL knows it works best if you find a way to get rid of superman until the 3rd act.

Also the rule with Professor X.

The Saddest Rhino posted:

Nah man I like the scene but it's still pretty hilarious that she straight up destroyed a whole wall off a building then gently told a girl she could be anything she wanted to be. Like I expect it from psycho goreman not justice league

Psycho Goreman is the villain in this

quote:

this is a really bizarre interpretation but why DID Martian Manhunter do that? did he know that Superman would go nuts and Lois needed to be there and was using reverse psychology on her?

The implication is that MMH thinks that she is at minimum a good journalist

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Sodomy Hussein
Oct 9, 2005



One of the better outcomes of the Snyder cut is that it further delegitimizes Whedon's reputation.

Sodomy Hussein
Oct 9, 2005



Ammanas posted:

so darkseid prepares loads and moves his armada to earth within 8.5 months of the end of JL? seems pretty fast, must be nearby

Earth is roughly Steppenwolf's 50,000th planetary conquest according to the dialogue, so it sounds like Darkseid and most of his people mostly strike poses, secure in the notion that Steppenwolf is not cool enough to hang out with them on Planet Death Metal.

Sodomy Hussein
Oct 9, 2005



They will end up doing something, who is anybody kidding at this point.

Sodomy Hussein
Oct 9, 2005



Anti-Life Equation is simple, it's the key to destroying free will, which is the fundamental quality of all life, and therefore will annihilate all life. I guess the Death Equation didn't have quite the same ring.

E: It also further illustrates what a ripoff Thanos is of Darkseid.

Sodomy Hussein
Oct 9, 2005



Detective No. 27 posted:

These are the same people who complain that Superman is "boring" and then whined when they didn't get that boring stuff in MoS.

Man of Steel is one of the few Superman things I find interesting.

After a while you just kinda get over that Batman is not only killing people but shooting them with guns, and not a good person, and then get more into what Zack is trying to say.

Sodomy Hussein
Oct 9, 2005



And frankly if you watch Superman '78/the Donner Cut of II back-to-back you basically see that Man of Steel is just a remix of those two movies that theorizes a little bit more about what is going on with the other Kryptonian characters.

Sodomy Hussein
Oct 9, 2005



Mantis42 posted:

you're meant to watch it on your phone... don't tell me people have been watching it on their TVs!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKiIroiCvZ0

Sodomy Hussein
Oct 9, 2005



I hope one day the goon obsession with RLM will end regardless of their opinions on specific movies, it's kind of a bad look to still be watching them if you've ever seen their masks fully slip.

Sodomy Hussein
Oct 9, 2005



Aidan_702 posted:

Whats the problem with them? I watched the phantom menace video that got them popular yeearrs ago but couldn't really be bothered to watch anything else.

I'm going to just guess that as youtube stars they're all skeezy creeps.

There's a bread crumb trail of internet misogyny in particular that fully came off during the Brie Larson "controversy" (controversial with no one but white dudes who watch kids' movies), and they have extremely sheltered midwestern white dudely opinions about why you would put POCs in your movies. Just to name a couple of things.

But if you're not convinced of any of that, generally it's just reviewing stuff every member of their audience has already seen and giving completely unadventurous opinions about them that amount to I Liked Good Thing or Disliked Bad Thing. After a point the gimmick is boring and there's no real discussion or insight happening. Like the deepest into the pool you will get is 80's film canon for young boys. It's very good at reconfirming the opinions of their fandom and that's about it.

Sodomy Hussein
Oct 9, 2005



Timeless Appeal posted:

I think there is a kind of feeling of listlessness in Snyder's movies. You get a lot of people who are not superheroes or superheroes in everything but costume (Lois, Alfred) kind of lead these put upon mediocre lives. Smallville is a really good example. It's not this idealistic smalltown anymore. It's a bit desolate, more big box stores.

Hell and welcome to modern between-the-coasts America. We live in a world of fear and doubt, and one of the main problems Superman has to overcome is that no one believes he could be acting without some nefarious ulterior motive.

Sodomy Hussein
Oct 9, 2005



I like that polymorphed Martha Kent has a dramatically overexaggerated Kansas vocal twang because MMH is a dweeb.

Sodomy Hussein fucked around with this message at 17:30 on Mar 22, 2021

Sodomy Hussein
Oct 9, 2005



fishing with the fam posted:

As a scoffer at the idea of the Snyder Cut for years, I'm eating some crow over here. That was a pretty darn good movie. How about that.

It was certainly better than BvS, which I was not expecting.

Sodomy Hussein
Oct 9, 2005



Blood Boils posted:

That was a great touch by Diana Lane

Thought for the day: They should have made Martha Kent Martian Manhunter

Sodomy Hussein
Oct 9, 2005



Ouhei posted:

I worked through this over the weekend and while it was better than the theatrical cut, I can totally see how they didn't want to release this originally. 4 hours is too long and the film is just trying to do too much. I've been trying to distill down what I think the core problems with the DC movies are and I think it's 2 things:

1) The DCEU was too rushed because they were trying to catch up with Marvel. This movie crams 3 brand new main heroes into it, the Snyder cut does a better job of fleshing them out, but we're still playing catch up the entire time about who they are and what they can actually do.
2) Disney/Marvel made action movies that are based in comics and the DC movies are comic movies. One of the reasons I think the Marvel movies have had such incredible success is they've taken comic characters and stories and made them more digestible for the masses. These DC movies are basically live action versions of the animated movies they've been making for years. Obviously comic book fans will love that, but widespread audiences not as much. This snowballs with the first point because there's so much comic book poo poo tossed at you so quickly.

I'm left conflicted, I liked it overall despite it's issues, but it all feels like a waste as none of the plot threads they start will ever get continued.

I somehow doubt the Zack Snyder theatrical cut would have been four hours and if he was adamant on that I can see Warner Bros. hitting the panic button. This feels more like "as intended theatrically" + "mostly superfluous director's cut stuff"

Sodomy Hussein
Oct 9, 2005



quote:

Also who was the person to Darkseid’s left? Not Desaad, the one with the pike. Are they a comic character, or just a random lieutenant or something?

That is Snyder's take on Granny Goodness.

Sodomy Hussein
Oct 9, 2005



teagone posted:

If WB execs weren't loving idiots, Snyder's 214 JL cut could have easily been the theatrical release, and the 240 cut could've been marketed as the Ultimate Edition for HBO Max. Fuckin' dummies.

This is in fact what is normally done but WB has been extraordinarily incompetent and rudderless WRT their DC properties.

Sodomy Hussein
Oct 9, 2005



40K is the literally the origin of the term grimdark.

"IN THE GRIM DARKNESS OF THE FAR FUTURE THERE IS ONLY WAR,” begins every Warhammer book ever.

I'd appreciate if people stopped being pedantic about what the words grim and dark meant, I think it's enough to explain that the outlook of the films is not that, but the subject matter is. Steppenwolf is literally Psycho Goreman, which is basically a chaos space marine--cartoonishly evil and destructive on an unspeakable (and ~~!!!totally awesome!!!~~) scale.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4tizc0IAVQ

And you know, people also complain that Snyder movies aren't funny, but they're really part of the Christopher Nolan wave of constant dry humor. Like if you didn't think DeSaad nearly making Steppenwolf cry wasn't funny you're a little bit dead inside.

Sodomy Hussein
Oct 9, 2005



Zzulu posted:

Isn't wonderwoman bulletproof? Why she hitting bullets with her jewelry? For fun? Personal challenge?

Wonder Woman's powers have never made a terrific amount of sense in these movies. She is basically impervious to harm and is incredibly fast, but still has to block bullets with her gauntlets/shield. She can also do like a sonic boom gauntlet thing.

Sodomy Hussein
Oct 9, 2005



bushisms.txt posted:

Imagining people upset when Cyborg puts money in that mother's bank account.

"Has Snyder never heard of teaching a man to fish?"

Frankly I was upset he didn't put in more. $100,000 will not buy 1/4th of the space she needs in a major city.

Sodomy Hussein
Oct 9, 2005



2house2fly posted:

Plus at some point the bank is going to notice that someone has more money than they should and investigate. Best-case scenario, they take the money back out of her account. Cyborg would have to get way more involved on a way bigger scale to really make even that amount of difference

I think Cyborg can basically run the bank around in circles infinitely if necessary, using .002% of his processing power, since part of what he uses is that the little screen everyone looks at is their truth. This assumes he hasn't already, as he could have constructed what amounts to an immaculate fraud in the bank's system to justify the $100,000.

His power is :stonks:

Sodomy Hussein
Oct 9, 2005



HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:

After like 8 years I still don't know what makes people so angry about Snyder.

I think people hate Snyder fandom more than they hate Snyder, because the fandom tends to look down its nose at people who like similar movies, as if watching Zack Snyder movies makes them intelligentsia.

Also unless whatever Ayn Rand movie he makes is the Starship Troopers version of objectivism, he can definitely go gently caress himself there.

Sodomy Hussein
Oct 9, 2005



McCloud posted:

They literally call him a sexist, fascist, objectivist bigot. They hate him, specifically

The fact the fans are superior to them is just insult to injury :smug:

Well he did make 300, by similarly controversial Frank Miller.

Sodomy Hussein
Oct 9, 2005



A SnyderBro is a person who thinks BvS is "perfect" but hasn't even seen Excalibur. Who largely defines their fandom of Snyder movies as oppositional to Marvel movies. To be utterly basic.

Sodomy Hussein
Oct 9, 2005



My sense of the Star Wars sequels is that Disney had no overarching plan, so went JJ, who made a nice homage movie, to Rian Johnson, who made a Star Wars movie with several different layers to it, and then panicked and went back to JJ with a big mess because Disney is extremely sensitive about cultivating the fandom.

Sodomy Hussein
Oct 9, 2005



Darko posted:

He phased through it which is another B.S. Flash is broken power.

Flash is quite literally a speed wizard who makes Superman's power seem finite.

Sodomy Hussein
Oct 9, 2005



Darko posted:

I'm looking at Josstice League and made it to the thirsty convo and I just can't take it. The Amazon battle and Stephen Wolf are just soooooooo bad without the beats that make that action scene work as an actual chase. And the lack of actual score including the [wailing].

It's still unclear what she actually plans to do with the Motherbox once it leaves the gigantic, conspicuous fortified bunker in the middle of nowhere, made for easy access by enemies attacking from the otherwise barren coastline. Or what they think arrows are going to do to the ancient, indestructible cube.

It makes the humans burying theirs in a shallow grave and calling it good seem relatively inspired.

Sodomy Hussein
Oct 9, 2005



I'm going to choose to believe that Batman being completely bored and annoyed by yet another demigod is 100% intentional though.

Sodomy Hussein
Oct 9, 2005



It's OK if a movie is long. It's less OK if you obviously could have cut some bloat or repetitive scenes, which this definitely has. The ending chapter is tacked on, there's at least one scene of Steppenwolf talking to DeSaad where he's repeating what he said in the previous scene to DeSaad and adding nothing, it's just not a disciplined cut. The MMH stuff I could take or leave, the subtext of MMH being a huge useless dork is pretty funny but it's just kind of whatever. A Knightmare movie might be fun but not if characters are going to act like nothing else in the scene is happening while they monologue on each other. That felt like amateur fan film hour.

I would generally criticize BvS and Justice League as having convoluted plotting. If BvS Super Actually Real Cut edition needs another 30 minutes to make the plot make sense, the plot wasn't that good to begin with. Justice League spends a lot of time with Chekhov's Laser and it ends with what has become typical Snyder ham.

So yeah Justice League is very good compared to Josstice League, no high bar there, and I think better than BvS. But I think there's at least a 3 hour 30 minute cut in there that would have been significantly better.

Sodomy Hussein
Oct 9, 2005



Beeez posted:

This is why Seven Samurai is such a bad movie, there weren't seven movies before it explaining who all the characters were. Same with the Three Musketeers, Dumas should have had three prequel novels explaining the backstory of each musketeer.

At least they didn't do this joke seven times

Sodomy Hussein
Oct 9, 2005



AFoolAndHisMoney posted:

These are interesting takes I hadn't considered while watching the movie.

Is the implication here fueling the theme that some detractors have put forward that in Snyder's movies Superman brings an inherently negative impact on the world?
In MoS he ended up leading Zod and the phantom zone criminals to Earth, his influence led to Luthor making Doomsday and now with his return he's going to succumb to the Anti-Life equation.

I personally feel that the films are generally far more supportive of Superman as an inherent force for good and that Clark in particular makes it so thanks to him being a good person from his upbringing so I'm just a little intrigued at the implication that bringing back Superman is a bad thing and how that fits with Snyder's depiction of Superman in MoS and BvS.

Superman arriving on Earth puts it back on the galactic map after thousands of years of being largely inconsequential, and while this attracts a bunch of other space demigods, most of whom are insanely evil, Superman is helping humanity by constantly preventing disasters and we can presume preventing some serious crime of the type that is now left to other characters while he is gone. Giving people faith that their conditions can change and that someone can act selflessly is also important.

Sodomy Hussein
Oct 9, 2005



I guess it's not really clear that the Kryptonian armor does literally anything but give you a solid indication as the viewer of when poo poo's Getting Real.

Sodomy Hussein
Oct 9, 2005



Megaman's Jockstrap posted:

The Kryptonians are obsessed with genetics and eugenics but they clearly don't work. It didn't help their leaders make wise decisions and their best general mounts a failed coup before promptly losing a fist-fight to a born-and-bred scientist. Every single indication in Man of Steel is that the Kryptonian society was a huge failure at everything they did; their meritocracy was a scam, the eugenics didn't work, their colonization efforts failed, and then they blew up their own loving planet because they needed more fuel.

It would be fun to imagine a "what if Krypton, but it worked?" but that's basically Snyder's Justice League films.

The eugenics "worked" in the sense that they created self-perpetuating fascists with robotically dogmatic thinking.

Sodomy Hussein
Oct 9, 2005



Xealot posted:

"This world engine can Krypton-ify any planet? Huh. You wanna park it on Venus, try it there? We can compare notes about the whole 'perfect society' thing, see how the next few centuries go." A fun Third Way solution to the conflict of Man of Steel.

If I can't also slaughter a bunch of abominations who reproduce by natural birth, this isn't worth doing.

Sodomy Hussein
Oct 9, 2005



grieving for Gandalf posted:

lol did Joss write a scene where someone accidentally falls into Wonder Woman's cleavage

Infamously, yes.

I wonder how many more nails Joss Whedon's coffin needs at this point.

VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE posted:

https://twitter.com/wordsandsense/status/1379486994921848834

He did that, and threatened to ruin Gal Gadot's career over it. IIRC eventually he got her stunt double for that shot.

Oh look, the movie that got Joss fired from the MCU.

Sodomy Hussein
Oct 9, 2005



Ghost Leviathan posted:

It's like Joss has gotten to the point where literally the only thing he cares about is recreating stock anime sexualised pratfalls to the point of threatening to ruin lives over it.

been said that a lot about Firefly makes sense if you make the likely presumption he's a regular customer of expensive hookers and actually believes what they say to him.

He very clearly gets off on forcing women he's directing/writing to be hypersexualized male fantasy characters.

Sodomy Hussein
Oct 9, 2005



Aquaman is pretty torturous when watched as anything.

Sodomy Hussein
Oct 9, 2005



Working against making a Fountainhead movie here is that

(A) Ayn Rand is seen as a conservative archdemon

(B) The only people getting Ayn Rand movies made are the same types making direct-to-video Christian end times movies

(C) Zack will not be forgiven for 300 in particular

Sodomy Hussein
Oct 9, 2005



khwarezm posted:

I know Libertarians personally who don't think of themselves as Right wing. I don't think they are correct, but I don't think they are being insincere about what they believe, mostly because they tend to perceive left/right being primarily about stances on various social issues.

Libertarians are the middle of the Venn diagram between people who don't know anything about politics, people who think they know everything about politics, and people who can't shut up about it.

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Sodomy Hussein
Oct 9, 2005



Pirate Jet posted:

It’s not a good book, even a little bit, but it is explicitly a story about a dude who values the nebulous (though not illegitimate) property of “artistic integrity” so much that he is willing to destroy his career in pursuit of it. It’s hard to imagine that not being appealing to the majority of self-righteous creatives, let alone the dude who just did that in real life and it paid off for him.

Acting like this whole affair destroyed Snyder's career, or ever threatened to, is about as fantastical as libertarianism.

Zack Snyder has a bad enough reputation without people stanning him as the perfect filmmaker.

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