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McCloud
Oct 27, 2005





https://i.imgur.com/uWySU3a.mp4

Welcome to the official thread for Zack Snyders Justice League, or as it is colloquially known as, The Snyder cut, a film that supposedly doesn't exist.

Wait, wasn't this film already released 3 years ago? Is this a directors cut?

To put it bluntly..no. This is a whole different film from what was released in 2017. Briefly explained:

Due to a family tragedy, Zack stepped away from the production of the JL movie in may 2017. By the time he had stepped down, he had finished shooting and editing, previz was done on the film, along with some of the vfx, and clocking in at 214 minutes. This version is what would later become known as the Snyder Cut. After he stepped down, WB brought in Joss Whedon and Geoff Johns for rewrites and reshoots, and mandated that the film be 2 hours long. They cut Zacks film down to 30 minutes, and then did reshoots to fill out the remaining one and a half hour. They gutted Cyborgs story, removed a ton of cameos from supporting cast, made sweeping changes to the story, andthey also removed the score by Junkie XL and replaced it with Danny Elfmans reheated leftovers.

It bombed, financially and critically. Fans hated it, and despite persistent articles from media journalists that claimed that the cut didn't exist (and if it existed, WB would never release it, and aside from a few cut scenes it was still the same film as the theatrical version) and being dismissed as overzealous fans in denial, they started petitioning for Zacks version to be released.  The fans raised not only awareness for the cut, but also 500 000$ for the charity organisation AFSP (American Foundation for Suicide Prevention). It all culminated during an evening in november when fans got the #ReleasetheSnyderCut tag trending, and were joined in by Gal Gadot, Ray Fisher, Ben Affleck and Zack Snyder himself.

The next day, Zack got a call from WB asking what he needed to make it happen and gave Zack a carte blanche. Zack took the opportunity to put back some scenes that he originally had cut out to bring the runtime down, and also brought back the cast to shoot 2 additional scenes that are about 4 minutes long. These additions bring the runtime up to 4 hours, and they decided to name it Zack Snyders Justice League, to differentiate it from the theatrical version in 2017. 


We're getting about 3 and a half hours, or the equivalent of 2 full films worth of unseen footage with ZSJL. That's why I said that this is not a directors cut of the 2017 version, that was more a Whedon/Johns film than a Snyder film, because it had only a tenth of Zacks original footage in it. If anything Zack Snyders JL is the directors cut of the Snyder Cut.

As it happens, the timing to release ZSJL was also a big boon for the VFX people working at WB. Due to the pandemic, there was basically nothing else coming down the pipeline for these workers. The Snyder cut made sure they had work to do, and quite probably kept them employed during a time when a lot of other studios were downsizing. 
That's the TL DR. I'm leaving a ton of stuff out of this already bizarre story, like how the fans pulled off one of the most unlikely and successful fan campaigns ever, the absurd and borderline hostile response from entertainment journalists , the allegations Ray Fisher brought up of racism and abuse of the cast by Joss Whedon and Geoff Johns on the set during their reshoots. If anyone is interested, i'm sure there's a few people here that can go into more detail, but this is dragging on long enough as is!


Anyway, enjoy this aggressive meme



Edit:

https://twitter.com/snydercut/status/1362778980554846210?s=20

EDIT: For those living in the UK, it will be available on Sky Cinema

https://twitter.com/kryptonscodex/status/1369339201221705736?s=20

McCloud fucked around with this message at 17:47 on Mar 9, 2021

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McCloud
Oct 27, 2005





Eararaldor posted:

So this is streaming on HBO Max, but is there still any news on how people from the EU can watch it?

There is!

https://pressroom.warnermedia.com/us/media-release/zack-snyders-justice-league-premiere-march-18-hbo-max

quote:

The company also announced the first wave of International launches for ZACK SNYDER’S JUSTICE LEAGUE. Concurrent with the premiere on HBO Max in the U.S., the DC film will be available exclusively on HBO services in Europe across the Nordics*, Central Europe**, Spain, and Portugal as well as on the HBO GO service in Asia***. In Latin America the title will premiere exclusively on HBO Max when the service launches in the region later this year. Details on additional international release dates and plans will be announced as soon as they are available.

* HBO territories in the Nordic region – Sweden, Denmark, Norway and Finland
**HBO territories in Central Europe – Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Bosnia & Herzegovina, Macedonia, Serbia, Slovenia, Poland, Montenegro and Croatia
***HBO GO territories in Asia – Indonesia, Malaysia, Philippines, Singapore, Thailand, Vietnam, Hong Kong, Taiwan


They haven't quite hashed out the UK or some parts of Europe yet, but I do know an announcement about UK is coming up soon. Also I think it'll be available on google plus for renting.

McCloud
Oct 27, 2005





Eararaldor posted:

Ah..... Because I’m in the Uk and not heard anything yet

I wouldn't worry, they're not gonna leave out the biggest market in Europe

McCloud
Oct 27, 2005





https://twitter.com/snydercut/status/1360971287472996357?s=20

Trailer came out early

McCloud
Oct 27, 2005





The Knightmare scene works as both a look into Bruce's psyche and how he's afraid of being an impotent messiah and of aliens destroying earth, as well as a vision of what's to come. It's both a dream and a prophecy. That's a neat thing about it, it's not just either/or.

McCloud
Oct 27, 2005





https://twitter.com/jurneesmollett/status/1360992546042703874?s=20

McCloud
Oct 27, 2005





Farg posted:

ehhh ok that's less silly than I was hoping. one day someone will have fun with comic books

Boy do I have a cinematic universe for you!

McCloud
Oct 27, 2005





I think we all know that when people complain about these movies not being fun, what is actually being said is that they're unhappy that these films aren't power fantasies that make them feel good. It's why there's so much focus on Superman not smiling and being "dour", they don't feel reassured that he's having a good time! They want Superman as the warm father figure that they can depend on to save the day, and a Batman that brutalizes and cripples criminals, but in a heart of gold kind of way, ya know

It's honestly baffling how there's this weird expectation that every superhero movie needs to be FUN and drip in self effacing irony. Doubly so considering Josstice League was exactly that kind of movie, and that flopped.

McCloud
Oct 27, 2005





live with fruit posted:

Why does Bruce Wayne still dress up as Batman in a post-apocalyptic wasteland? It seems like there would be no one left to protect his identity from, or to inspire.

Bruce is the mask, Batman is the real Bruce wayne etc etc

McCloud
Oct 27, 2005





Also not for nothing, but if you didn't find the jar of piss funny, I dunno what to tell you.

McCloud
Oct 27, 2005





ImpAtom posted:

The films are still power fantasies though? Like through and through. Batman in particular will never escape being a power fantasy and even if BvS gives him the Space Racism angle they also give him tons of scenes showing how cool and awesome he is. Superman is still plenty power fantasy, it's just the more angsty "why don't people see" kind of power fantasy. And Wonder Woman basically exists to swoop in with a kickin' rad theme and kick the poo poo out of a monster and look neat doing it.

There is nothing not power fantasy about the Snyder movies. They represent flawed characters but that does not preclude the other because there is a large genre of power fantasy which revolves around that and uses it as melodrama fuel. There are absolutely people for who the Snyder films are fun power fantasy. You can argue they are misreading the film but when the film goes out of its way to present Batman kicking the rear end of a room full of people in brutal violent ways as Fuckin' Sweet there is at least some element of that there.

The major difference is largely what people want in their power fantasy. Snyder's films are very focused on the idea of the Great People who stand above and the difficulties they face from jealousy, spite and hatred, whereas Marvel has decided to go all-in on the idea of 'normal people' who obtain great power. Both are power fantasies it just depends on what flavor of power fantasy you enjoy.

Saying Snyders Superman is empowering is certainly a strange take, unless one finds it empowering to constantly be questioned, belittled or demonized by Society. He's constantly second guessing himself, unsure of how to best go about helping people who have legitimate reasons to be scared shitless of him. Even when he uses his powers, arguably what the power fantasy about Superman centers around, it comes off as almost horrifying and scary, it's more akin to a natural disaster than anything else.

Batman is portrayed as a violent sociopath vigilante that prowls on the underclass and commits extrajudicial violence while the cops look the other way, and he's deranged enough that he now outright plans to commit premeditated murder. Yeah, he looks cool while he kicks a dude into a grenade he's still portrayed unsympathetically for large portions of the film. Him being a broken person is very much not part of a power fantasy, kickass action sequence not withstanding. Like, the "fantasy" of Batman is that of a super ninja with a moral code who has tons of cool toys and can "Disable you 25 ways, 2 are lethal, 4 really hurt" and then cripple a dude, but will never kill, because he's a good guy, honest! Him killing is voiding the fantasy, because that's the one figleaf people have of him being a hero, and you take that away and there's no hero left, just a bully.

And that's where I think the problem is for a lot of people. Ultimately a lot of these folks watch these movies for the fuzzy feel good feelings, and both BvS and MoS very specifically don't give the audience that. They're not interested in seeing "angsty Superman", they want the confident Smiling version that saves kittens stuck in trees. Instead these films gives them space 9/11 and shows their heroes as undecisive or fallen seeking redemption, and that's not going to be in everybodies wheelhouse.

I also disagree with your assertion that the MCU is about "Normal people" who obtain great power. There's nothing normal about a billionaire, let alone one that can invent an infinite power source in a cave, WITH A BOX OF SCRAPS, or being a literal god of thunder, and Captain America was specifically chosen because he wasn't normal. There's nothing "normal" there. And Black Panther is a king of a futuristic nation with technology centuries ahead of anyone else. Hell, even the Hulk is now a team player who has no issues controlling his anger (unless a mcguffin fucks him over). Like, maybe hawkeye and Widow would be considered normal, but they didn't do anything interesting with them so eh

You are right about WW though.

McCloud
Oct 27, 2005





ImpAtom posted:

Have you ever heard of The X-Men? Being an outsider who is rejected by society but having the power to ignore that is totally a power fantasy. Even the melodrama and angst that goes with it is part of the fantasy. If it wasn't then nobody would want to be any of the X-Men, even ignoring the fact the majority of them are superpowerful supermodels.


Again, this really doesn't mesh because this argument would suggest Batman is almost never a power fantasy. It's just a different kind of power fantasy. The Punisher is also a power fantasy and he is a literal violent sociopath vigilante who does all those things and is known for killing. Even in versions where he is portrayed as his most broken and awful it still goes out of its way to show how cool he is when he kills people and works to give the viewer a sense of satisfaction when he murders the Real Bad Guys. You're not removing the power fantasy by having Batman kill people, you're just shifting it even more over to the Punisher then most modern Batman already is.

There's a big difference between finding some heroes relatable and their actions being a power fantasy. They overlap at times yes, but they are not one and the same. Also key here, is that the X-men use their powers to stand up to their tormenters. The power fantasy isn't "the melodrama and angst", it's standing up to your bullies. The X-men being ostracised is relatable, the X-men using their powers to threaten the President of the United States to "Not gently caress with us" is the fantasy.

I never said that Batman killing removes the power fantasy, I said that Batman wasn't a power fantasy because he's portrayed as a lonely depressed, broken and miserable person
Punisher can be written as a power fantasy, sure. But if he's written as a horrible monster with little redeeming qualities that gruesomely executes people then I'd argue that no, that particular iteration isn't a power fantasy, it's just a story about him being an rear end in a top hat. If this Batman is a power fantasy I don't think he's a particularly good one. That said, the warehouse scene is clearly meant to be a cool scene, I just don't think it makes up for...well, everything else.

Regarding the Leto thing, I do think the simplest explanation is that Snyder either doesn't believe the rumors around Leto or doesn't want to take action unless there's actually someone that steps forward. Perhaps he just doesn't want to fire someone based on rumors

McCloud
Oct 27, 2005





ImpAtom posted:

"Superman wasn't trying to kill Batman" is, as I said, not actually relevant to the Batman Beats Superman power fantasy, which almost universally just relies on the fact that Batman can kill Superman. The fight itself is based off the Dark Knight Returns fight where Batman has a power suit fueled by an entire city block, help from Green Arrow, and Superman is not actively trying to kill him and which ends with Batman dying from a heart attack (sort of) which is still held up as the ur "Batman can beat Superman" moment.

That sequence is played as Batman brutally and viscerally beating up Jesus, and imo Batman comes off as more of a bully than any kind of savior, which is very much unlike DKR where he's the underdog fighting for freedom or w/e. The context differs a lot between those two iterations.


Martman posted:

I do think the movie will have to walk a fine line in how it portrays Superman turning evil. I don't think I can really cast judgment on it yet, but I'm very curious if they will be explicit about the Anti-Life Equation, how much we'll actually see him struggling with his decisions, or what. 'Cause if it's just "oopsie Superman got hypnotized" then it would indeed paint a sad picture of just how dangerous he is to the world.

The idea is that the death of Lois leaves Superman vulnerable to the ALE, but your latter point is kinda interesting because..well, Superman has kind of a bad trackrecord in the comics with mindcontrol

McCloud
Oct 27, 2005





ImpAtom posted:

Batman absolutely comes across as a bully in DKR. Remember that DKR Superman isn't a villain. He's there because Batman has basically declared Gotham his kingdom. This is understandable because the government sucks but Superman isn't there to Take Batman Down if he can avoid it. He doesn't want to fight him at all and tries to reason with him throughout the entire fight. When he hears Bruce's heart start to go he panics and tries to warn him and that is when he gets a crippling beatdown.

And as Batman is stomping the helpless face of the man who showed him mercy, he thinks about how he wants Superman to remember how it feels to bleed and be helpless.



He absolutely does look like a bully because his goal is to make Superman feel scared and bleed. It's worth remembering the entire thing is a ploy so he can fake his death and go back into hiding. Making Superman hurt is just a side bonus.

DKR Superman has willingly become an enforcer of a corrupt US government, he's there because Reagan ordered him to apprehend Batman because he's making the government look bad, and whos actions are framed as trying to take back a city that's been more or less ceded to crime. This is in stark contrast to the BvS Superman who's there to try to talk some god drat sense into this weirdo so they can save his mom and where Batman eventually surrenders because even he realizes how far off the deep end he went.

McCloud
Oct 27, 2005





Nodosaur posted:

What do you want from me?

I dunno, an opinion that isn't terrible?

McCloud
Oct 27, 2005





Let's bring back the purple leggings and miniskirt! That's an enduring character design!
-Geniuses on the internet

McCloud
Oct 27, 2005





Tuxedo Catfish posted:

i prefer portrayals of Darkseid that lean more towards ostentatious than drab, and more "he's worshiped by the people he oppresses to such a degree that they won't allow themselves to be saved" vs. how this movie seems to be going more for Apokolips as an industrial insect hive with no individuality at all except for the rulers

but that's a judgment in a vacuum, i can wait and see how this actually plays out in context

The insect hive thing ties back to Krypton though, and also kind of, to earth, so it kind of makes sense as a thematic throughline. Plus his whole thing is trying to subvert the free will of sentient beings and replace it with his own, the hive mind thing ties neatly into that too.

McCloud
Oct 27, 2005





Barreft posted:

I've just never seen such slavish loyalty to one person. The Snyder poo poo just reminds me of Trump/Elon/Roberts idol worship. Like I'm sure there's many out there defending Joss Whedon as well, which is just as weird.

e: eh

Oh please, do go on

McCloud
Oct 27, 2005





DanteDevils posted:

Marvel sucks too. The ubiquitousness of toxic comic-book and superhero fandom (media originally for children and adolescents) among presumably grown adults exemplifies a deeply alienated society and culture in which we live. The particular fanaticism of Zack Snyder’s personality cult is only one — albeit disturbing — iteration of this. Snyder’s love of Ayn Rand novels deserves the ridicule it receives as well.

Alan Moore detailed this alarming phenomenon perfectly:


Some more accurate commentary on this trend:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgInmHHO0m4

And, of course, Martin Scorsese nailed it in his NYT op-ed: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/04/opinion/martin-scorsese-marvel.html

Dawn Of The Dead is Snyder’s only good film.

quote:

We have always created icons in our own image. What we've done is we project ourselves on to him. The fact is, maybe he's not some sort of Devil or Jesus character. Maybe he’s just a guy trying to do the right thing. make cool movies

quote:

Well what are we talking about here then?
Must there be a Zack Snyder?

There is

McCloud
Oct 27, 2005





It's hilarious that the execs were sure they had a super hit on their hands after the Whedon changes and we're shocked when it blew up in their faces.

McCloud
Oct 27, 2005





Saw this, found it neat

https://twitter.com/spoki83/status/1300010938230284288?s=20

McCloud
Oct 27, 2005





Total Meatlove posted:

That they built the suit to do that in the second gif because they anticipated the studio interference is such a perfect summation of the entire project in microcosm.

It's fascinating, because Zack basically managed to shoot a lot of his stuff on the sly with the intent of having it released in some sort of Ultimate Edition thing after he gave them a heavily edited down theatrical version.

One would think he'd have learned to just make a 2 hour film but I guess some people are just stubborn

McCloud
Oct 27, 2005





I know there's still some people who think they shot like 2 hours additional footage for The Snyder Cut, so here's a link to dispell that notion

https://thedirect.com/article/justice-league-snyder-cut-reshoots-additional-scenes

"In a recent appearance on the LightCast Podcast, producer Deborah Snyder revealed that production only shot “literally one scene” for "three days" during the October 2020 additional filming for Zack Snyder’s Justice League. This tacked-on production was later confirmed to have been for a 4-minute scene involving a Knightmare sequence with Ben Affleck's Batman, Jared Leto's Joker, Amber Heard's Mera, Joe Manganiello's Deathstroke, and possibly a few others "

McCloud
Oct 27, 2005





https://twitter.com/KaiserNeko/status/1361743051161559040?s=19

McCloud
Oct 27, 2005





Timby posted:

DURF, that makes sense, my bad for misreading it. (I'm in the hospital and high as a goddamn kite on IV dilaudid, I blame that for my foggy brain.)

In any event, I dig it. My knowledge of Martian Manhunter is limited to a few episodes of Supergirl, but I'm always happy to see Harry Lennix on a screen; the dude is obscenely charismatic and should have a much more prolific career.

I hope you're ok my dude.

McCloud
Oct 27, 2005





Update on how to watch Zack Snyders Justice League

https://twitter.com/snydercut/status/1362778980554846210?s=20

Updated the OP as well

McCloud
Oct 27, 2005





Eararaldor posted:

I mean that tells me nothing? I still don’t know how to watch it?

Where do you live

McCloud
Oct 27, 2005





No word if it Will be available on stream I'm the UK but it will be on VOD of some sort

McCloud
Oct 27, 2005





That would be a deep cut.


Lmao Zauriel kneels before joker and calls him the messiah. Can you imagine what that would do to the internet?

McCloud
Oct 27, 2005





Could I be any more furry?

McCloud
Oct 27, 2005






Lol

McCloud
Oct 27, 2005





I might not buy Ryan as a father but I absolutely believe he's a daddy

McCloud
Oct 27, 2005





Guy Gardner is the worst GL, so I hope not

McCloud
Oct 27, 2005





teagone posted:

Yeah, but... buff Jonah Hill.

He can play G'nort

McCloud
Oct 27, 2005





It's clearly Batmite

McCloud
Oct 27, 2005





Batflecks rendition of a Superstitious cowardly lot would be something alright

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDtFjg8_PWg

McCloud
Oct 27, 2005





Gatts posted:

Thompson. He can be the straight man to Jack Black’s Guy Gardner GL.

Now we just need someone to be Kyle Rayner GL...

Oscar Isaac ofc

McCloud
Oct 27, 2005





Zack posted this on Vero

https://twitter.com/IGN/status/1365375259566878724?s=20

It's a cool little summary of Events So Far

McCloud
Oct 27, 2005





Mr. Apollo posted:

“The Mother Box Origins”

https://youtu.be/VtoaayKwd8w


God it looks gorgeous, I love it!

Someone already pegged Batmans pose to be similar to San Sebastian Of Milan

https://twitter.com/6LO6O6/status/1365728519599308805?s=20


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McCloud
Oct 27, 2005





https://twitter.com/let_deathstroke/status/1365772563465576448?s=20

https://twitter.com/apilotjones/status/1365748584474419202?s=20

https://twitter.com/apilotjones/status/1365755088774582273?s=20

https://twitter.com/apilotjones/status/1365757414801293312?s=20

McCloud fucked around with this message at 22:19 on Feb 27, 2021

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