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Voodoofly
Jul 3, 2002

Some days even my
lucky rocketship underpants
don't help


Almost Blue posted:

Cape Fear isn't one of my favorite Scorsese, but it's pretty good. Weirdly feels more like a De Palma movie to me, I guess because of all the split-diopters and some Hitchcock homages.

If I remember correctly Spielberg was slated to make it and had done a decent amount of preproduction. Scorsese was, at the time, originally set to do Schindlerís List. Scorsese felt a Jewish filmmaker should tackle Schindlerís so they traded.

I heard this in film school way back when so might be bullshit, but Nolte would absolutely fall into the Spielberg Dad stereotype.

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Almost Blue
Apr 18, 2018


That is true, but I don't think he got that far into development with it. Spielberg did still produce it even if his name isn't on the movie. I've heard Spielberg's choice for Max Cady was Bill Murray. Would've been a wild entry in his filmography if he'd stayed on.

Tuxedo Catfish
Mar 17, 2007

You've got guts! Come to my village, I'll buy you lunch.


Shutter Island seemed like the weakest of the 5-6 films I've seen, but only in the sense that it didn't strike me as more than a pretty solid thriller while the rest of his movies have, at minimum, scenes that still stick with me years or decades later.

Franchescanado
Feb 23, 2013

I AM A STUPIDLY SEXY WOLFMAN



Grimey Drawer

Tuxedo Catfish posted:

Shutter Island seemed like the weakest of the 5-6 films I've seen, but only in the sense that it didn't strike me as more than a pretty solid thriller while the rest of his movies have, at minimum, scenes that still stick with me years or decades later.

Yeah, I'll agree with that. Shutter Island's the weakest of his I've seen. Still, I like the atmosphere, premise, and it's visually nice.

Uncle Boogeyman
Jul 22, 2007



Shutter Island is a mess, but a good 75% of what's wrong with it is straight out of the source material - I like Denis Lehane, but that one's a potboiler even by his standards. It has some funky directorial choices too though. I do really like the Patricia Clarkson and Ted Levine scenes.

Franchescanado
Feb 23, 2013

I AM A STUPIDLY SEXY WOLFMAN



Grimey Drawer

Uncle Boogeyman posted:

Shutter Island is a mess, but a good 75% of what's wrong with it is straight out of the source material - I like Denis Lehane, but that one's a potboiler even by his standards. It has some funky directorial choices too though. I do really like the Patricia Clarkson and Ted Levine scenes.

I was gonna ask about the book, if someone brought it up. What's a good Lehane to try, if any?

Uncle Boogeyman
Jul 22, 2007



Franchescanado posted:

I was gonna ask about the book, if someone brought it up. What's a good Lehane to try, if any?

I really like the Kenzie/Gennaro books, Gone Baby Gone was adapted from the fourth in that series. Really solid Boston PI yarns.

Almost Blue
Apr 18, 2018


Did anybody see that Jesse Plemons is now going to be the lead in Scorsese's next movie? He's taking over from DiCaprio, who'll still be in it in a different part.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/jesse-plemons-to-star-in-martin-scorseses-killers-of-the-flower-moon

sponges
Sep 14, 2011



I wonít say Gangs of New York is his best film, but it might be my favorite.

checkplease
Aug 17, 2006



Smellrose

What's a mess about Shutter Island? Not saying you are wrong, just I always find it a nice atmospheric thriller. I guess the whole experiment is a bit over the top, but I dunno, I just kind of went with it.

Xealot
Nov 25, 2002

Showdown in the Galaxy Era.



sponges posted:

I wonít say Gangs of New York is his best film, but it might be my favorite.

I have complicated feelings about Gangs of New York, because it's definitely a mess of a movie, but the world-building is next level good in it.

My main issue with it: I think Bill the Butcher should probably have been the protagonist. Bill is on par with some of Scorsese's best monsters, Jake LaMotta or Travis Bickle or Max Cady. But Amsterdam's revenge quest against him is such a tedious weight around the movie's neck. You'd think it'd lend a sort of tragic inevitability to it...that Amsterdam befriends Bill but is duty-bound to kill him. Or that it'd be cathartic in some "Count of Monte Cristo" sense, that you want to see Amsterdam do it. But I mostly saw it as this limp obligation in the plot getting in the way of what's great about the rest of the movie: the gleeful lawlessness of 19th-century New York, and watching DDL play out this horrifying character.

Of course, the parts of the movie I think worked, *really* loving worked. The scene where Bill "confesses" to Amsterdam in the middle of the night, draped in an American flag, is one of those god-tier moments in filmmaking.


In general, though, I can't think of many directors as prolific as Scorsese who are also consistently good. Even now, after 5 decades, he's STILL taking chances and doing new things and they're turning out great.

It sucks that his popular persona is as a violent mob movie guy, because those account for like 5 of literally dozens of features he's made. And when he isn't making The Irishman, he's making things like Hugo or Silence. He's made 19th-century romances, dark comedies, psychological thrillers, a musical, and literally a biopic about the Dalai Lama. Right now, he's pushing 80 and still has several upcoming projects I'm genuinely excited to see. How is this fucker so good at movies?

The Klowner
Apr 20, 2019

I see past the sham that is society, and I'm into some incredibly fucked up shit.

I'm also wondering what the shutter island haters have to say for themselves

Timby
Dec 23, 2006

Your mother!



checkplease posted:

What's a mess about Shutter Island? Not saying you are wrong, just I always find it a nice atmospheric thriller. I guess the whole experiment is a bit over the top, but I dunno, I just kind of went with it.

I don't think it's a mess, but it's hampered by its source material, which is the platonic ideal of an airport newsstand thriller, and some of the deviations / additions really just kind of add ... I don't know, complexity for the sake of complexity? This is a pretty common thing with the screenwriter's other movies, looking at her credits.

But I still enjoy it quite a bit for its atmosphere, and "Scorsese does Hitchcock" is a pretty great selling point. The cast is pretty uniformly excellent, too, even if I wish someone other than Ruffalo had been DiCaprio's partner; he's just full as dishwater in the movie.

It's not top-tier Scorsese, but it's absolutely worth watching.

Uncle Boogeyman
Jul 22, 2007



I think the episodic nature of Shutter Island plays a little better in the book than in the movie, where it feels like "and then THIS character actor gives a monologue to Leonardo Dicaprio, and then THIS character actor gives a monologue to Leonardo Dicaprio, and then..." I also think it doles out the series of big reveals at the end in the clumsiest way possible (again, partially the book's fault - it's kind of a dumb ending no matter how you slice it) and some decisions just kinda baffle me (Why cast Elias Koteas in a one scene cameo as a dream sequence vision of a character who turns out to be a figment of Leo's imagination? Again, this plays better in the book where there's never any need to see that character, whereas the movie puts him in as a weird swerve so "it was actually Leo the whole time" is harder to predict, i dunno it feels like a cheat).

This also all felt pretty stark at the time since it was Scorsese's second consecutive Boston-area Neo Noir starring Leonardo Dicaprio, and while The Departed is not without its flaws, it's both a lot better and a lot more fun. I haven't seen Shutter Island since it was in theaters, but also I've never really felt compelled to revisit it.

Uncle Boogeyman fucked around with this message at 14:29 on Feb 19, 2021

Blood Boils
Dec 27, 2006

Its not an S, on my planet it means QUIPS


Hair Elf

Re: Silence

I read the book before I saw the movie, I would recommend it to anyone who at least kinda liked the film. You get more pov from some of the minor characters, the priests do a bit more, etc

And LtKen is correct, it works a bit better as a novel than a movie but there's not a huge gulf between them really.

Xealot
Nov 25, 2002

Showdown in the Galaxy Era.



Timby posted:

...and "Scorsese does Hitchcock" is a pretty great selling point.

It ended up being really divisive among my friends, and I think this is why: they either loved this about it or hated it.

The third act exposition dump especially turned a lot of people off, as ďanti-cinematicĒ or lazy. I appreciated it as a Hitchcock reference, the explicit denouement. But itís an incongruous choice for a movie in 2010, as is the blaring and anachronistic score throughout.

He made Hugo around the same time, which is also an explicit love letter to old cinema. I guess 2010-11 was a super nostalgic time for him as a filmmaker.

Alhazred
Feb 16, 2011






sponges posted:

I wonít say Gangs of New York is his best film, but it might be my favorite.

Gangs of New York is a movie with incredible characters, actors and setting and yet it focus on DiCaprio and DIaz at their blandest.

live with fruit
Aug 15, 2010


Spatulater bro! posted:

I think he does a pretty good job in the NYT article detailing what, as he sees it, are the key qualitative differences between the two types of films.


Maybe a better way to think of it as a spectrum rather than two categorical buckets, but there's no denying the differences are real and definable.

The list of directors Scorsese does approve of is interesting, specifically Wes Anderson and Kathryn Bigelow since an argument could be made that these two have been spinning their wheels for years now. Obviously he's not wrong in saying that Marvel movies are market researched but is he really finding something new in every Wes Anderson movie? Or even in his own series of films about the rise and fall of white sociopaths? It seems like the problem is less with the points Scorsese makes and more with the way he goes about arguing them.

sponges
Sep 14, 2011



Wes Anderson has a specific but Iíd hardly accuse him of making the same film again and again.

Magic Hate Ball
May 6, 2007

ha ha ha!
you've already paid for this


I thought Hugo sucked rear end.

Dangerous Person
Apr 4, 2011

Not dead yet

Well I quite enjoyed Hugo

The_Rob
Feb 1, 2007

musicals are garbage


Hugo is great, so is shutter island and I think that Silence is one of his best. Wolf of Wall Street is his worst movie easily though. I blame that on Terence Winter being the writer though. Heís the worst writer to come from the sopranos crew for sure.

Laughing Zealot
Oct 10, 2012




Thread inspired me to re-watch Bringing out the dead (like 15 years since I saw it), and to finally fix my shame and watch Goodfellas for the first time ever.

Having finally watched all of Goodfellas, Casino and The Irishman I realize I'm the weirdo that just doesn't care for those films. They're great but something about them just doesn't appeal to me.

I did like Bringing out the dead, had some fun seeing Michael K. Williams and Sonja Sohn well before their The Wire days. Isiah Whitlock Jr. was also in a tiny role in Goodfellas.

Gonna watch Silence soon hopefully, I remembered being excited over the trailer at the time.

Uncle Boogeyman
Jul 22, 2007



Laughing Zealot posted:

Isiah Whitlock Jr. was also in a tiny role in Goodfellas.

Absolute top tier bit part.

Xealot
Nov 25, 2002

Showdown in the Galaxy Era.



Laughing Zealot posted:

Having finally watched all of Goodfellas, Casino and The Irishman I realize I'm the weirdo that just doesn't care for those films. They're great but something about them just doesn't appeal to me.

I get it. They're phenomenal movies and deserve the credit they get, but also I couldn't be hosed to care about Italian mob stories at this point. I couldn't get into Sopranos for this reason, either. I think prestige media has said all it can about macho Italian mob guys in the tri-state area at this point. Scorsese's other work is way more compelling to me.

I'd love to see more Russian mob narratives out in the world, though. Eastern Promises was great.

Spatulater bro!
Aug 19, 2003

Punch! Punch! Punch!



To be fair, Scorsese's mob movies are a massive part of the very reason Italian mob stuff is so ubiquitous.

Xealot
Nov 25, 2002

Showdown in the Galaxy Era.



No, of course. And I think Goodfellas is remarkable. But also that Casino is...a good movie that feels a lot like Goodfellas. And that The Irishman was a good movie that kind of feels like a retrospective on Goodfellas and Casino.

No judgments for people who love that poo poo, I just think the well is a bit dry now. FWIW I have immense affection for The Departed, which I see as an occasional parody of Scorsese's mob movies (and crime films generally, I suppose.)

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

I'm sorry, everyone.

Thank you for starting this thread. I love Scorsese and now realize I haven't even seen all of his films. His name came up in some other thread in a discussion about Spielberg and someone asked me if I was "honestly comparing Marty to Spielberg in terms of cultural impact" or something close to that.

In which case...yes? I don't think it's the Speilbergian blowout that was suggested at least and overall, I prefer Scorsese's films to Steven's even though JAWS is my all time favorite.

What do you guys think of the suggestion/criticism that Marty leans too hard on DeNiro? I've heard that offered but to me it's more of a synergistic thing where they bring out the best in each other.

Also, everyone go see King of Comedy and After Hours since they are great and get buried under the other stuff.

Uncle Boogeyman
Jul 22, 2007



BiggerBoat posted:

What do you guys think of the suggestion/criticism that Marty leans too hard on DeNiro? I've heard that offered but to me it's more of a synergistic thing where they bring out the best in each other.

No, but he was leaning a bit too hard on DiCaprio for a while

Voodoofly
Jul 3, 2002

Some days even my
lucky rocketship underpants
don't help


I'm just waiting for him to work with Willem Dafoe again.

TrixRabbi
Aug 20, 2010

Time for a little robot chauvinism!



Uncle Boogeyman posted:

No, but he was leaning a bit too hard on DiCaprio for a while

Yeah, like between 2002 and 2013 he made only one film without DiCaprio (not counting docs, of course).

Meanwhile, he took a 24 year break from working with DeNiro between 1995 and 2019. The fact that Killers of the Flower Moon is going to finally unite them feels like it should be a bigger deal.

Uncle Boogeyman
Jul 22, 2007



TrixRabbi posted:

Yeah, like between 2002 and 2013 he made only one film without DiCaprio (not counting docs, of course).

and honestly, DiCaprio was not very good in a couple of those (Gangs of NY, Shutter Island), whereas De Niro knocked it out of the park every time, even in lesser Scorsese movies like Cape Fear

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

I'm sorry, everyone.

Uncle Boogeyman posted:

and honestly, DiCaprio was not very good in a couple of those (Gangs of NY, Shutter Island), whereas De Niro knocked it out of the park every time, even in lesser Scorsese movies like Cape Fear

You and me are about to have a problem, Uncle Boogeyman.

Uncle Boogeyman
Jul 22, 2007



BiggerBoat posted:

You and me are about to have a problem, Uncle Boogeyman.

Cape Fear is fine, but I have a hard time seeing it as anything other than lesser Scorsese. I mean, it's kinda outclassed by its own Simpsons parody episode.

TrixRabbi
Aug 20, 2010

Time for a little robot chauvinism!



Yeah, Gangs of New York is one of his weakest films easily, even if it's got a good DDL performance propping it up.

Uncle Boogeyman
Jul 22, 2007



TrixRabbi posted:

Yeah, Gangs of New York is one of his weakest films easily, even if it's got a good DDL performance propping it up.

I actually like Gangs of New York a lot for the most part but Leo, Cameron Diaz, and that other bland dude that fights Leo over Cameron Diaz are all film-cripplingly bad.

Spatulater bro!
Aug 19, 2003

Punch! Punch! Punch!



Time to step in and defend Leo. He's not quite at the level of DeNiro, but I think he's pretty great. Especially when he's working with talented directors. I mean I get why people don't like him. He has that baby-faced 90s heartthrob aura that he can't seem to shake, and I think people often interpret that as him being miscast. He doesn't dissolve into his characters as well as some of the greats. But despite all that he has a great screen presence and I absolutely love watching him.

Alfred P. Pseudonym
May 29, 2006

And when you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss goes 8-8



I think Leo is pretty good in The Aviator and The Departed and The Wolf of Wall Street. Not so much in The Gangs of New York.

Cacator
Aug 6, 2005

You're quite good at turning me on.



I've always thought Leo's strengths were in more comedic oriented roles, such as Once Upon a time in Hollywood, Wolf of Wall Street, and What's Eating Gilbert Grape.

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Uncle Boogeyman
Jul 22, 2007



Alfred P. Pseudonym posted:

I think Leo is pretty good in The Aviator and The Departed and The Wolf of Wall Street. Not so much in The Gangs of New York.

I think he's a little shaky in parts of The Departed but that was where I started taking him seriously. He's excellent in The Aviator* and The Wolf of Wall Street.

*I saw The Aviator after I saw The Departed which is why I wasn't already taking him seriously

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