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loving Queen Mab. So I got the mission for King Frost and after the Cerberus debacle I decided to try and find a fire Persona without an ice weakness, and there was Queen Mab. Seemed great, so I pulled her out of the compendium and dumped as much PP into her as I could, it was a big sacrifice but I figured hey it'll make things way easier. So you know how most Personas' C4 attacks are a spell of their element? Yeah. For some reason, not Queen Mab. Turns out despite being a fire Persona, her C4 is...an ice attack. Her C6 is a fire attack, but a C6 is tough to pull off on a boss consistently without it being down from AoA/Showtime. So I just ended up using Forneus the whole fight since it nulls ice and I had it inherit Maragidyne. I'm still mad about this, especially since C6 being weird is something other Personas do too, so why her C4 had to be ice really irritates me.
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# ¿ Feb 17, 2025 21:12 |
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Jail 6 boss spoilers: Oh wow, EMMA straight up lied to Konoe about the PTs being taken care of, and then played dumb when he got angry after the calling card. That's a hell of a development. Also Thor felt like cheating on Konoe since it resists physicals and Konoe is weak to lightning. This was the first boss where I went "Wait, this feels too easy." And granted he had a second form but even that went down pretty quick.
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Omobono posted:Also that's the point of the game where you should have the full complement of kaja and kunda spells, the bond skills to back them up, and the SP to refresh them at will. Those go a very long way. I've been keeping Nebiros around because Debilitate is so good. It's a shame there isn't an all party Heat Riser, or at least if there is I haven't seen it yet.
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Post Jail 6 spoilers: Ah okay, so Ichinose is Law Hero. I was wondering when she was going to show up again. Also boo, way to cop out, game. So she didn't learn they were the PTs by overhearing their conversation, it was because she'd been spying on them. Getting the Bugs mask as a drop really opened up fusion, I wasn't able to make anything new before that and now I can make all sorts of new things. No way around the King/Black Frost fusions though, gotta just dump a ton of PP into Jack O' Lantern. Jack Frost was 30 so he didn't take too much PP to get up to 40, but from level 5, I'm gonna keep Lantern in my party for a few fights to reduce the PP it'll take to level him.
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Post Jail 7 spoilers: Sophia's Awakening was the best thing ever. Even better than Zenkichi's. I'm also really unsure how Sophia's shop works when she's not in your phone and everyone is zombified. Also man they really did drop the ball on the seven sins thing. After the first three you had Sloth, Wrath, Envy and Greed left. Jail 7 kind of fits Sloth, even though EMMA isn't slothful the theme of the Jail is everyone imprisoned saying they never have to do or think anything anymore and just leave it to EMMA. Konoe seems like Pride, but that was already used for Natsume. The chain to his birdcage is the Chain of Arrogance which seems like Pride, but then Natsume's was the Chain of Vanity, both of which essentially mean Pride. I guess you could sort of wedge Konoe into Wrath, maybe, since he was all PUNISH THE VILLAINS, but then what's Akane? Her Jail doesn't have a chain, but she could fit into Wrath (angry at her father and Owada, wanting to punish the villains like Konoe) or Envy (she envies the Phantom Thieves and wants to be them, her Shadow even created the fake PTs). That'd leave Okinawa as Greed I suppose no matter what. I dunno, it just seems shoehorned in without much thought.
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I think I'm about to fight the final boss since I just used EMMA's servers to send the calling card to everyone's phones. I'm honestly wondering whether to bother doing NG+ or not. I have the Switch version, which means no trophies, so I have no real reason to fill out the entire Persona compendium or get max Bond level (which are probably the only real reasons to do a NG+). I'm also not really sure if I want to do a Merciless run either since people who have done it say you can still just die in two hits even with all your stats at 99. But then doing a NG+ on a difficulty lower than that would be too easy, and on top of that there isn't much reason to replay it since I already saw the story. I could just see what different responses you get to Joker's different prompts, but that doesn't feel like enough. It's not like P4 where you could go back and do like, soccer club instead of basketball club, or date a different girl.
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After getting a couple of levels of the bond skill that increases your ammo, I've found the most fun way to play as Ann is just hang back and loving unload with her machine gun.
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Commander Keene posted:I think this game uses more "realistic" "stealth" mechanics than base P5 anyways, in that game you were basically undetectable while hiding, even if a Shadow would logically be able to see you given your positions. In Strikers I've been caught by ground-based enemies when my hiding spot put me in line of sight. Though of course there's one particular stealth section where the Shadows won't see you even if you're in direct line of sight, as long as you're at a cover point. But that section would have been much worse if it had been more like the rest of the game.
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Actually a thought occurred to me today, I don't know if the game ever says it or not but if you assume Akane's grandparents that live next door are her paternal grandparents, that makes Zenkichi the rare JRPG protagonist whose parents are both alive and well and remain so for the entire game.
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ApplesandOranges posted:Hey now, Ann's are alive! P4 MC's parents are alive and well too since he transfers to Inaba to stay with Dojima while they're working overseas. BearDrivingTruck posted:Yeah he outright says he moved back to Kyoto because his in-laws lived there, so they could take care of Akane Ah whoops, didn't remember he specifically said in-laws, ah well. Still I guess as far as JRPGs go the Persona series has much more characters with living parents than most games.
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Got around to beating the final boss today, now I just need to knock out the post-game requests and I think that'll about do it for me. Took around 60 hours which is on par with most JRPGs. Ending spoilers: I got a little worried when Sophia was like "Oh you guys go on ahead I'll go get Ichinose" that it was going to result in her sacrificing herself or something, but that didn't happen and I'm really glad. The final boss fight was kind of neat, using the entire party, though it wasn't particularly difficult. I was fortunate to have a decently leveled and powered Dominion to take advantage of EMMA's weakness. But yeah with nothing but bonus bosses left I have to say, this was a really great game. The story was fine and took a few turns I didn't expect, and Sophia is absolutely wonderful. Zenkichi is great too, and I hope they stick around for future games.
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Quick word of warning for anyone who hasn't done the post-game requests yet, so they don't get stuck in the same situation I did. If you accept both the Painful Past request to defeat Demiurge again, and also accept the request to beat the Shadow of God, if you do Demiurge first you will immediately be thrown into the Metatron boss fight afterwards with no chance to save or change your team. Your team will be whatever you had before doing the Demiurge fight, so be sure you have a decent team set up for Metatron before doing Demiurge. You don't want to be like me and go in with literally the worst team possible, which is Haru and Makoto, since Metatron nulls psychic and nuclear. I was fortunate to have Yatagarasu as a mask drop from climbing the tower, otherwise I probably wouldn't have beaten it (or would have had to expend enormous resources) and redone the Demiurge fight.
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Oof after picking some some more armor and summoning some Personas for PP my cash reserves are running low. Only half a million yen. That sounds like a lot but it isn't so much when it's like 60k to summon Personas to burn.
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I started a Merciless playthrough because I was intrigued by the game saying that there's extra content in it (though it notes that it's not extra story content). I do remember seeing something about "Takeover mode" mentioned on a couple of sites talking about post-game content, but literally none of them say what it actually loving is. You do have to fuse the final Persona to access it, and I'm only level 83 and fusing it requires me to be 90, so it'll be a while before I find out. People weren't kidding about how tough Merciless is, I got OHKO'd in the opening tutorial battle. I got through it by liberal use of Megadolaon. The first actual battle, the game was kind enough to inform me that there's no "Retry Battle" option in Merciless. What that means is if you get defeated in the Bicorn boss battle, you're doing everything all over again from when you first entered the Metaverse. Probably helpful to bring a Persona that does lightning damage and resists physical to prepare for that fight, I happened to have Shiisa (though a default drop one) in my stock which was really helpful since nothing else I had did electric damage, and you can't baton pass at that point so you can't spam Ryuji's skills. Everything after that has been much more manageable, no more OHKO stuff so far though yeah enemies hit hard and it's usually two or three hits to make you go down. On the plus side, random battles have a good chance of dropping Incenses it seems.
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I finally made Lucifer, got one that has a strength stat of 75 which is nice. I also gave it Null Nuke because why not. The biggest problem was trying to figure out what to give it, all the skills it can inherit from its components are so good it's difficult to choose. I took Angelic Grace too, as well as Fire Amp, Enduring Soul, and Spell Master. I feel those are probably the best skills to give him, though I guess it depends on if you're going to keep Blazing Hell or not. I'm flat broke though from spending the points to get the required Personas up to snuff. I have less than 300 yen. Also the redux of the opening tutorial battle was really difficult, I got wiped five or six times. I finally was able to make it through with Yoshitsune and Ann's charm that gives high fire damage reduction. Since it nulls lightning the Zios the Pixies were throwing at me had no effect (those were responsible for about half my deaths), and it's strong against fire already so combined with Ann's charm it helped keep the Agis from Jack manageable. And on top of that it's strong against physical so the Bicorns were easier to deal with, and it had Enduring Soul so I got one free mulligan. Still an incredibly hard fight. Bicorns are the loving worst.
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Yeah I found out real quick I want some ice since the Berith enemies in Sendai drain fire now, oof. The new enemy resistances are rough, like Slime completely nullifying physical now, and facing Berith and Slimes in a pack is really difficult. Still I'm kinda having fun with Merciless, more than I thought I would. I'm kind of wondering if there's any new armor though, so far quest rewards seem to be the same, though I haven't done any of the "more armor in Sophie's shop" reward ones so I'm not sure if there's new armor from that, if there's no reward, or if it just gives me the repeat reward as the initial reward.
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I'm going through my skill cards, which I barely used on my initial playthrough, to shore up weaknesses on my Personas and spread around some buff skills. Trumpeter is the highest possible level nuclear Persona, and it doesn't learn Nuke Amp, which sucks because I don't have a card for that. Same for Fortuna and Wind Amp. My initial playthrough I didn't care much about having a Persona for every element, but with the new resistances that Merciless has I don't want to get put in a situation where an enemy can only be effectively hit by one element and have Joker have to spam Megidolaon or something. Also I can confirm that the requests that gave new shop stuff on NG+ just give the repeat reward as their initial reward, like the "more armor" one gives a single medicine. It sucks too because to fight the superboss you have to do all the other requests so you have to waste time doing a quest with a crap reward. Also that means I gotta fuse up all those Personas with specific skills again since I don't know if I have the right skill cards to just cheese them.
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I made a save right before the ferris wheel decision this time around. The first time I obviously chose Ryuji and Yusuke, as that is the correct choice, but I wanted to see how the other choices went. The important and interesting thing to note is, everyone will give you Bond EXP if you ride with them...except Makoto. Whether you tell her it's a date or not, you won't get any Bond EXP. This makes Makoto the worst choice for the ferris wheel, unless you just really like her or something. I feel like I'll go with Haru in the end, it feels most appropriate since Sapporo is pretty focused on her. I'm also kind of interested to see how the scene in Osaka is different if you pick one of the girls. If you pick the guys in Sapporo and then go to the tower with the girls, they remember how you dodged asking all of them on the ferris wheel and start demanding to know who you would have picked. ApplesandOranges posted:Trivia: Trumpeter doesn't learn Cosmic Flare. It's Mot (who also learns Nuke Amp). I got two Atomic Flare skill cards though. ![]()
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Oh yeah, another P5 question. In this game it sort of seems like the Velvet Room's existence isn't known to any of the other Phantom Thieves. When you go into it in Shibuya, Morgana just says that Joker was staring into space and needs to snap out of it. When he walks off at the beginning of a later Jail, Ryuji's just like "Uh where'd you go are you okay?" I don't remember the Velvet Room being some weird unknown thing in previous Persona games, so why don't the other PTs know about it?
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Look, we all saw in Sendai, Joker admitted he and Yusuke were an item now, so Ryuji's out of luck.
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I trashed Dekaja on all my Personas because it seems useless, every time the bosses buff themselves Dekaja just flat out doesn't work. I tried ten times to get rid of Sapporo's boss's attack buff and it just wouldn't go away, so I just figured there was no point in keeping it.
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Eh it was that and it also being useless against the Sendai boss's buff he gives himself. It just seems like when there's something worth using Dekaja on, the game just goes "Nope sorry it's special so you can't dispel it." Got annoying and I dumped it. It's not like I can't just give it back though, which is probably more important now that I'm on Merciless. Speaking of which, my first playthrough Kurama Tengu was a huge pain in the rear end, I wasted a ton of revival and SP restoration items when I fought him. Now that I'm on Merciless, I used Debilitate on him, and noticed he was weak to gun. And I already had Ann in my party to deal with the Koppa Tengu in the normal encounters, so I was able to just stunlock the rear end in a top hat with her and the fight was a complete joke.
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Acerbatus posted:Did I miss it or does Alice not have any seen talking to any of the thieves after? She doesn't. This is mostly because since Alice was the first Monarch they defeated and weren't completely sure how Jails worked, they couldn't be completely sure Alice would have a change of heart. And once they saw the TV show, the cops had already arrested her. When they knew that changes of heart could trigger, they were able to bust in on Natsume's press conference since they were expecting one, and a press conference is easier to get into than a TV studio anyway. And with Mariko, since Haru had a personal connection to her, Mariko obviously wanted to talk to her afterwards. At the very least, if you go on the ferris wheel with Ann, she talks a bit about Alice and how she hopes they can be friends after everything is over.
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So the bond skills that raise stats...are they bugged in the US release, do they only take effect on a level up, or do they only work until a certain value? I'm in Jail 6 and my team has been 99 for ages, the only bond skills I have left are the strength/magic ones. Ann has had 90 in her magic stat for a while, and I just leveled up my bonds. I put three levels into magic, and her magic stat is still 90. So either it only takes effect on a level up (and thus is effectively useless as a skill for NG+), only works if the stat is less than a certain value (like it only adds a point up to 80 or 90), or it's just bugged and doesn't work at all, because otherwise Ann should have a magic stat of 93 after those bond levels. If it's the case that they only take effect on a level up, that actually means you should go hard on those skills on your first playthrough as they're just a waste of points on NG+ since you hit 99 so quickly, plus it would help reduce the amount of incenses you'd need to max stats.
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I guess that makes sense, even if it's confusing. It would be weird to change Joker's Persona's stats after he equipped it. So uh, goddamn, Alice's Die For Me! is absolutely useless on Merciless. Cast it about twelve times on a dark weak enemy before they actually died. Level might be part of the chances to hit, I would assume, and every Shadow at this point in the game is level 99 while my Alice is only 92. I do appreciate Alice has a special Showtime unique to her.
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She does have Mudo Boost (as well as Curse Amp/Boost), dunno if Ailment Boost would work. I just noticed Ganeshas are weak to curse while I was going through Jail 6 and figured Die For Me might be a quick and easy way to deal with them, but so far it just takes so many casts before they fall, usually around nine or ten (I am doing it right at the start while they have full health though). Lucifer's is unique too, yeah, a star falls from the sky and causes an Almighty spell looking explosion. I don't remember Yoshitsune's, though I had to have used it to get past the tutorial battle.
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As I was looking at Bond skills I saw that Luck affects ailment rates. So, I took a bunch of PP, dumped it into Alice's Luck stat to bring it up to around 85, and now Die For Me is real good at killing things. She only had 49 Luck before then. My Lucifer also now gets me about 1.9 million PP for around 85k yen. Good stuff, though I am now always out of money again.
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I was watching someone play Monster Hunter Rise last night, they were playing with English voices and their hunter's voice sounded awfully familiar. So I looked it up and yeah, the woman who voiced Sophia in this game also did one of the hunter voices in Rise. That's pretty cool.
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So after saying I wasn't sure if I was going to bother with Merciless, I've now fully completed the game on Merciless. The final boss is legitimately difficult on Merciless, yeah it's just because they have jacked stats but it still makes the final fight seem like an ordeal. And the final superboss, holy poo poo that fight is loving insane on Merciless. Boy it sure is fun to have to fight four bosses at once! So final bits on mechanics and such. First of all, there actually is new armor in Merciless, the requests at the end of the game give you two or three, and Jail 6's boss drops one as a reward. It's not all that much stronger than what you get at endgame in normal difficulty but hey every bit helps. It kinda sucks that Joker doesn't get his NG+ weapon until the very end either (it's the reward for Painful Past+ on the final boss, which after that all there is to do is the superboss). The reward for the superboss on NG+ is the Omnipotent Orb, which nullifies all damage except Almighty on whoever equips it. Which is nice, but of course there's nothing left to do at that point unless you want to grind everyone's Personas to all 99 for no real reason (there isn't even a trophy for that), or if you want to do yet another NG+ from the Merciless file. Which I sure don't, and I mean it this time. ![]() Joker managed to completely max out Lucifer and Alice, and I also maxed out Ryuji and Morgana. Everyone else had at least one stat at 99 Morgana seemed the easiest to max out for some reason. I don't know if his base stats at 99 are just that good, because it's not like I purposely set out to max him, it just happened. One minor complaint I have is that one of the first things I did on Merciless was get Joker 999 SP. Honestly, magic is ridiculously overpowered in this game. There's practically no reason to ever use your regular attacks on bosses, just spam the poo poo out of magic since it tears shields apart much faster than you could possibly do it through regular attacks, which gets you more All Out Attacks and thus more damage. I know magic is limited by SP and that's supposed to be the drawback is you're burning through resources for that extra damage, but when you have 999 SP, Spell Master which halves MP cost, the Grand Crystal which gives a chance for skills to cost 0 HP/SP, and enough Crab Hot Pot and Kyoto Curry to feed an entire army, there ain't much of a drawback lemme tell you. I've said it once, I'll say it again though. This was a fantastic game. And now I do kind of want to play Persona 5. It would be nice if it came to Switch, but it doesn't seem like that's going to happen which is a shame. DC Murderverse posted:(But also Im not gonna romance anyone else because Makoto and Joker are perfect together) Sorry, too bad, Ichinose is totally gonna take Sophia to the Kirijo Group and have them build a robot body to download her into and then her and Joker will be together at last because they are perfect together.
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Oh one last thing I forgot to mention is that it kinda sucks that the Omnipotent Orb essentially makes the effects of Joker's ultimate weapon pointless, since its effects are reduce bless/curse damage. If you're already nullifying everything except Almighty, that's pretty useless, he's the only one who doesn't have at least one stat boost on his weapon which sucks.ApplesandOranges posted:Not to mention that considering Sophia is supposed to take a form based on who activated her... I'm not sure where you're getting that from (spoilers about Sophia's origin) it's impossible to say if Sophia had an appearance when Ichinose programmed her, while obviously the game is going to put her character portrait next to her lines in that scene, she was just an AI and I don't know if Ichinose wold give her an appearance. However, she did immediately recognize Sophia when the PTs showed her in Sendai. That could just be based on the voice since Sophia did obviously have a voice, but if she didn't have an appearance then I feel like Ichinose would have been more confused or curious than shocked. Like "Could this really be Sophia?" or "Maybe it's just a coincidence," but the fact that she immediately went "Yep that's Sophia" kind of implies that maybe Ichinose did program her to look like that. I know that there was the "What would you like me to become?" line in the cutscene where Joker activated Sophia, but that was in the flashback too, with Ichinose answering "Become humanity's companion," it's more of a question of "What's my directive?" than "What do you want me to look like?"
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Yeah that seems based on nothing since she was only activated twice, and the second time it wasn't based on what Joker wanted because Joker didn't know what was going on. Hell if anything it'd be based on what EMMA wanted since EMMA was the one who told her to become humanity's companion, or at least that's who I assume the voice she heard was, since Sophia is directly tuned to EMMA and hears EMMA talk to her in her head quite a few times.
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Just a note: the free Charge/Concentrate from regular attack combos (as well as free stat buff/debuff skills like Debilitate from Metatron and Masukukaja from Goemon) are weaker than if you cast them as actual spells. I was using Alice's free Concentrate for a while until I noticed it wasn't making my skills that much more powerful. It seems like maybe a 1.3 or 1.4x boost to a spell, rather than the 2x from casting it. They're certainly not useless and they're nice for a small boost, just keep in mind you won't get as much power from them.ZepiaEltnamOberon posted:Are there any tips to using Makoto and Sophie and Wolf? Most characters seem pretty no-brainer (especially Phys damage dealers like Ryuji and Yusuke), but I feel like I'm not really feeling certain characters that well. Sophia is built to put out a bunch of magic damage since she gets Bless Boost and Amp in her skill list, and of course she does the healing thing, although she's technically inferior to Morgana since he gets Salvation and Sophia just has Mediarahan. She gets Angelic Grace which boosts her evasion against magic, which is handy. Her gun can be charged like Joker's/Ryuji's can and if you have her Master Art she'll also create a gravity ball that slows down enemies. Remember you can use her C1 or hit the attack button at the right time when she finishes a combo to give her Perfect Catch which boosts the power/range of her attacks. Sophia's just a mage/healer. Her physicals aren't particularly impressive, you're bringing her because the enemy has a weakness to Bless and she's spamming spells, or the enemy uses lightning attacks so Morgana isn't safe to use as a healer. Every Warden is weak to bless, so she's always a good choice to bring to those fights since she can shred shields and force One More attacks. As far as Wolf goes he has pretty high strength and Fury boosts his damage even more, and one of his Master Arts increases his crit rate during Fury too. You just have to be careful he doesn't kill himself with it. Ultimately though he's a great support since he gets Heat Riser/Debilitate/Dekaja/Tetraja. He always had a spot in boss fights for me due to Debilitate alone. He also has no weaknesses (or resistances) so he's always a pretty solid choice due to that as well. He gets Agneyestra which is pretty great, he also gets Megidolaon which is...not great. It's powerful Almighty damage, sure, but his magic is on the low side so I ended up dropping it. Besides, one of his Master Arts makes his physicals into Almighty damage as long as he has Fury up. He also gets Firm Stance which halves his damage at the cost of making him unable to auto-evade, it's a nice option although I prefer the evasion personally. Not getting Charge means despite his high strength he's not going to be as good as physicals as Ryuji, but you're bringing him because he can shut down enemies with Debilitate and Dekaja, can use Heat Riser to immediately bring a resurrected character back up to full fighting potential, never has to worry about being weak to what an enemy can do, and always has Almighty damage to ensure he's never stonewalled against certain enemies (Ryuji is usually a great option but when you're facing down Thor, he's useless).
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Yeah he doesn't get Debilitate until level 68, but you should reach that by the final Jails at least if you do all the requests and Dire Shadows and such. He's decent enough at guns since he has Gun Boost when you get him, he doesn't get Gun Amp though so Haru surpasses him at that when she gets it (at level 67), also she'll probably have One-Shot Kill when you get him whereas he doesn't get it until 65. But yeah, that's why he's mostly a support character, he can't hit any weaknesses except gun, and even then he's not quite as good at it as Haru is. So it makes sense you're not really sure what to do with him since Debilitate (the big draw in his kit) doesn't come until later levels, and Agneyestra isn't until level 76.
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ApplesandOranges posted:Sophia and Morgana basically ping-pong for 'best healer' throughout the game. Sophia actually has the lead for a long time, because she learns Boost and Amp extremely quickly (I think she learns Bless Boost in her teens) Well, Bless Boost doesn't affect heal spells. Divine Grace does though (boosts healing by 50%) and Sophia learns it at level 32, while Morgana doesn't learn it at all. So yeah, Sophia is better at healing for most of the game up until Morgana learns Salvation, which doesn't need Divine Grace (neither does Mediarahan for that matter, so when Sophia learns that you can easily dump Divine Grace).
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The Bond skill that reduces the amount of points needed for other Bond skills seems like a no-brainer obvious choice to rush first, but if you don't care about trophies and aren't going to do a NG+, its value is fairly limited. Even if you max that out first, you're not going to get anywhere near enough points in a single playthrough to get everything, and even if you do a NG+ you'd end up having to grind out points to max everything. I'm not saying to ignore that skill, because it's useful for sure, but don't feel you need to sink everything into it as soon as possible if you're only playing through once, there's a lot of other skills that are incredibly useful (like the ones that expand Sophia's shop selection) that I'd say would be much more useful.
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# ¿ Feb 17, 2025 21:12 |
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One more note about Bond skills. It should be pretty obvious but just in case: do not spend your points on the skills that raise stats. You get 1 point per level (3 for HP/SP) but again, unless you plan on maxing out every Bond for a trophy, they are a waste of points compared to other effects that are much more useful. Even if you want the trophy, save them for the very last skills you upgrade.
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