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ApplesandOranges
Jun 22, 2012

Thankee kindly.

Arist posted:

Okay this scene in Akane's room (post-3rd Jail) is a loving riot

It's really good and everyone I know had a similar reaction when they hit it.

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ApplesandOranges
Jun 22, 2012

Thankee kindly.
How much does Technical High extend the duration of buffs? Since two party members can get it I could switch to Churrascos for early fight buffing and switch to using Heat Risers instead in the later part of the fight.

ApplesandOranges
Jun 22, 2012

Thankee kindly.

Blockhouse posted:

well now that I've got a little further


I regret to inform you that (post jail 4 mild spoilers) there's still a dumbass hot spring scene where the boys get beat up over a misunderstanding

It's arguably the worst part of the game, but thankfully that's a relatively minor quibble in an otherwise respectful game?

BearDrivingTruck posted:

holy poo poo (Jail 6) Zenkichi wrote the calling card in full legalese

This whole part was great.

"And your Desires... we're baking them, wait, taking them..." "Skull, you had ONE LINE!"

Does anyone who played JP know what the original line was?

ApplesandOranges
Jun 22, 2012

Thankee kindly.
Well, finished post-game. Time for Merciless NG+ I guess??

I'm going with these pre-emptive rankings for it based off endgame, let's see how much they change:

S+:
Joker

S:
Ryuji
Wolf


A:
Sophia
Ann
Yusuke


B:
Haru
Morgana


C:
Makoto

ApplesandOranges
Jun 22, 2012

Thankee kindly.

Omobono posted:

It heavily depends on the persona.
Generally:
3xAttack->Special, or Follow-up->Special, brings out its elemental attack (at basic/-ga/-dyne tier depending on the persona), some Personas get a physical skill instead; Sarasvati gets a low power Mediarama. It's intended as the bread and butter free skill.

2xAttack->2xSpecial can be almost anything, and some Personas do a generic attack instead of a skill on this one.

5xAttack->2xSpecial is usually the gigantic guns for how long it takes to do this combo. I've seen ma-dynes 10 levels early, ma-kaja skills, motherfucking CHARGE (Ganesha) and CONCENTRATE (can't recall).
Also gigantic whiffs like Marin Karin or Makajamon, fair warning.


You can practice combos out of battle, at least for checking what skills your personas casts for each combo.

Siegfried uses Heat Riser as part of its combo. It's kinda silly but hey.

ApplesandOranges
Jun 22, 2012

Thankee kindly.

Omi no Kami posted:

Okay, so wait- I'm still on the first dungeon, but it looks like time doesn't pass when you leave jail? So is there any reason to not constantly bounce out to refill HP/SP, then dive back in?

The only con is that it resets enemies and Showtime gauge, otherwise go nuts.

bobjr posted:

One thing Makoto is really good at is fighting Konoe

Haru and Morgana are the ones I could never feel I was using right, but Morgana got more use just for AI healing.

Morgana's best move is pretty much his final Mastery Art, which is just fun. Otherwise yeah, I only really mained him for control over healing or for Garudyne spamming.

Haru's a weird one. Her actual combos are some of the better ones among the cast (Y>Y>X and Y>Y>Y>Hold X are two good ones), but you mostly just skill/item spam late game. On paper, she's good; she gets Technical Expert and has a lot of ways to get Technicals (Psy off the ailments that she/Ann/Yusuke can inflict, Gun off Freeze/Shock/Dizzy) and she's your only status healer until Morgana learns Salvation (which won't be til postgame). I got decent use out of her during the meat of the main storyline.

Towards the end though, she kinda tapers off. Her damage is actually solid and about on par with Yusuke (he has higher St and better shield shredding, she gets the Boost/Amp combo with One-Shot Kill and Riot Gun), and Amrita Shower/Heat Riser are still good... but her Psy damage is pretty much an afterthought since it doesn't inflict any ailments and you probably aren't using mental ailments much on bosses. Ryuji rules the roost on actual physical damage endgame, and while Gun skills can be useful, they also get nulled more often than Phys. She's still good enough that you can use her without missing too much if you like her, but I very rarely brought her as a member of the A-team.

ApplesandOranges
Jun 22, 2012

Thankee kindly.

Ytlaya posted:

In case other people also didn't notice, the SP difference between normal spells and their Ma- versions is only 2 SP. I didn't notice this for a long time and tried to avoid casting those spells because I didn't want to use more SP, but the SP difference is small enough that they're almost just flat upgrades.

I also found out that buff/debuff spells actually last a very long time. Only needed to cast them twice in the most recent boss fight (the Jail Warden for the 3rd dungeon).

The difference does add up though, and there's actually a close-ranged gap in the Ma-spells that the normal versions can hit (Ma- versions hit in a cone, normals in a circle). One can use either and be fine, but I tend to use the normal spells.

Unrelatedly, I was wondering why I liked Haru so much more this game, and it finally clicked for me. Was it the fact that she was present from the start? More opportunities for her to be in the main story and in group events? Her VAing feeling much more natural and less stilted?

Well yes to all that, but also it was because she wasn't wearing her silly floofy sweater + polka dot leggings combo this game.

ApplesandOranges
Jun 22, 2012

Thankee kindly.
It's the gauge to the left of the character/Persona portrait on the lower left. The bars turn blue from bottom to the top.

ApplesandOranges
Jun 22, 2012

Thankee kindly.

Arist posted:

Right before the sixth Jail, Lavenza tells you about a series of challenging Shadow fights to unlock new fusions. Is there a recommended level to approach these? I managed to kill Seth but it took like twenty minutes.

Yeah for the most part, around 50ish is a good time to get started and from then on you can start to do new ones (and the Dire Shadows) as they unlock. Worth looking up their weaknesses ahead of time so you can just optimize your team for them (I think the one in the 5th Jail definitely was a little bit rough for me).

The Dire Shadows are really rough when you first see them but after the 5th Jail or so they're easier than the Unlock Shadows since they have less shields so you can just blast through them with skill spam.

ApplesandOranges
Jun 22, 2012

Thankee kindly.
(Final dungeon spoilers) Ichinose was a pretty good villain despite me being very bored of them when they first appeared in that I could tell from scene one she was being set up to be an endgame villain.

ApplesandOranges
Jun 22, 2012

Thankee kindly.
Alice is really rough for a lot of new players because it's one of the first fights where you actually have to learn to dodge things instead of just facetanking. If you learned that lesson earlier then you're bueno.

ApplesandOranges
Jun 22, 2012

Thankee kindly.
It's easier to go 'oh you're using Maeigon? Well don't mind me if I'll switch to Abaddon and conveniently recover the health I'm gonna use a physical attack on'.

ApplesandOranges
Jun 22, 2012

Thankee kindly.

THE AWESOME GHOST posted:

Are there any party members you won't really miss out too much if you just ignore them forever? I feel like there are too many

Everyone's useful to a certain degree, it's a matter of 'do I miss out on their really cool endgame skill if they're just missing a bit of exp'.

I feel like the least important characters to level personally are Makoto, Sophie and Yusuke personally in terms of 'actually gaining new skills'. Makoto really just caps out at Marakakuja since (in my opinion) as a healer she's generally worse than the other two options. Sophie finishes the majority of her skillset very early and her final skill is postgame levels territory. Yusuke's last few skills before his capstone aren't that great , so again it's 'postgame levels'.

That said, Sophie and Yusuke are very good characters so I just use them anyway, they're just lower on the 'must grab last few skills before final boss' list... but honestly you're swapping party members enough that it'll rarely be an issue.

ApplesandOranges
Jun 22, 2012

Thankee kindly.
I'm kinda blanking on it since I haven't reached that part in my NG+ yet but (Jail 4 spoilers, possibly spoilers for later on) was it ever revealed what was up with that side path on the beach on Okinawa that had a sign warning people away as a sacred site?

ApplesandOranges
Jun 22, 2012

Thankee kindly.

BearDrivingTruck posted:

I think it was literally just sacred ground. I think it was just put there to draw parallels to the lab the brainwashed citizens saw as sacred

But didn't Sophia say there she had no databases on the actual existence of a sacred ground there? That's why it seems like that sign was planted.

ApplesandOranges
Jun 22, 2012

Thankee kindly.

Arist posted:

It must be on an invisible timer in the background, that's the only thing that makes sense to me.

It's definitely battle related, I can do a big boss fight for a request but if that's the only thing I do in a Jail then the shop doesn't refresh even if that boss fight took me twenty minutes.

ApplesandOranges
Jun 22, 2012

Thankee kindly.
Also, Personas with full inherited loadouts take way more exp to level. I have a level 64 Cerberus and he has about 140,000 xp to level up, while my relatively fresh Abaddon has a fraction of that despite being a similar level.

ApplesandOranges
Jun 22, 2012

Thankee kindly.
I sometimes tried to use my PXP to keep my buddy Arsene up to date but that ran out of steam pretty quickly. I think he's at level 46, maybe I'll get back to him when I'm done fusing. It's funny that they keep giving him skills at big level gaps, like Maeiga somewhere around level 25 and One-Shot Kill in the 40s or something.

ApplesandOranges
Jun 22, 2012

Thankee kindly.
Arsene is my buddy and my pal. :colbert:

Also I just threw some utility skill cards on him like Recarm so I can feel that he's contributing sometimes. :unsmith:

ApplesandOranges
Jun 22, 2012

Thankee kindly.
NG+ stocks stat raising items in Sophie's shop, so you can use all that yen to feed your favourite Persona pal into a monster.

ApplesandOranges
Jun 22, 2012

Thankee kindly.
Yeah the first dungeon is *really* rough. The best advice I can give is to buy revive items at Sophie's shop whenever you exit. Morgana/Sophie do learn Recarm, so I'd keep at least one of them around as soon as they learn it.

As a bonus option, don't be afraid to use status effects! Haru can use Evil Touch for cheap and then you can use Psy for Technicals. It's an alternate option to burning spells if your weakness inflictors are running low on SP. Ann/Sophie are very helpful if battles are being a slog just for Tarunda/Rakunda.

ApplesandOranges
Jun 22, 2012

Thankee kindly.

Twelve by Pies posted:

Got to Alice and got my rear end handed to me. Not really sure how to deal with her. Sophia's shop had two revive items but I ended up using them on the warden fight, and neither Morgana nor Sophia have learned Recarm yet. It's not even the next skill they can potentially learn. But by the time I get Alice down to halfway my entire party is empty on SP, and without having any healing, I can't hold out, especially when Alice does that spinning move that makes her bounce around everywhere.

If you just want to burst as quickly as possible, inflicting Burn on Alice and then having Mona/Joker spam Garu til it wears off is probably the most efficient form of damage. Alternatively, since many of her attacks in the first phase have long windups, quick swapping to Yusuke when you see them and hitting X can get you some free damage.

If you've been using them enough to unlock their Mastery Arts, having Sophia and Ann in the party is good for free Rakunda and Tarundas. If you want to manually control healing to prevent them from wasting SP on Kouha, control Sophia/Morgana manually as much as possible.

Honestly Alice is pretty much about 'oh right, you have to learn to dodge', since there's no real way to tank her spinning move; even Ryuji gets 2-shot by it I think.

ApplesandOranges
Jun 22, 2012

Thankee kindly.
That no longer becomes an issue after the 2nd jail, since after that you have the option to revisit old Jails, which means you always have access to the Hangout.

ApplesandOranges
Jun 22, 2012

Thankee kindly.
Generally, the character that has a heavy hand in that dungeon's storyline is gonna be good against the boss. So Ann for Alice and Yusuke for Natsume.

ApplesandOranges
Jun 22, 2012

Thankee kindly.
I also accidentally brought that party not knowing that it was a good combo for that boss either but it makes a lot of sense when you realize that all eight elements are represented as weaknesses and Ryuji/Makoto are the only ones left. Alice is weak to Fire/Wind, Natsume to Ice/Bless, and Hyodo to Psy/Curse. If a more keen-eyed player was deducing things then that would be a fairly logical path. Realistically though I went 'oh right, you have Marakukaja now'.

ApplesandOranges
Jun 22, 2012

Thankee kindly.
Yeah I wouldn't play this game for gameplay. It's fun in its own way but it's basically a Persona game, just a little faster-paced.

Also, standard 'make sure you're debuffing/buffing in a SMT game'.

ApplesandOranges
Jun 22, 2012

Thankee kindly.
Late game you're pretty much just gated by SP, since theoretically you can spam skills to break shields > AoA > items as needed > repeat, since skills are near instant.

ApplesandOranges
Jun 22, 2012

Thankee kindly.

Commander Keene posted:

Re: Jail 3: So I feel like the whole "Hyodo is responsible for the girl's death" thing is a bit of a culture gap thing? Like IMO she's maybe not squeaky clean on the whole thing, but I feel like she sure as hell didn't need to cover anything up.

I assume you've finished it, so here's my take on it:

Hyodo wasn't directly responsible, but she was responsible for who she gave power to. It's definitely an unfair situation, but she was, essentially, the face of the Sapporo government body. And she had given her direct signature on approval of the sculpture. Call it 'maybe she should have read what she was signing' or 'she should have hired cleaner staff', but essentially, she did indirectly cause that girl's death. And if she'd come straight out, then there's nobody left in power to keep the corruption in check. So she said, 'I'll be the necessary evil', stayed in power, and went rampant on anti-corruption. Then EMMA gave her the ability to remove any potential threats to her mayordom while also knocking off the scumbag that blackmailed her in the first place.

Hyodo's definitely given more of a pass compared to the previous two Monarchs, though. That's why she was given a 'happier' resolution.

ApplesandOranges
Jun 22, 2012

Thankee kindly.
Yeah Mittleman is absolutely A++ in an already star-studded cast. I don't know what the guy does to get into character that well, but he needs to keep doing it.

If Persona 5 didn't already vault him to the top of my VA list, Strikers cemented it.

ApplesandOranges
Jun 22, 2012

Thankee kindly.
Futaba also shines in Strikers, she has some great lines but that's to be expected from a turbo-nerd where 60% of her speech is gonna be references of some sort.

ApplesandOranges
Jun 22, 2012

Thankee kindly.

Morpheus posted:

Is there a particular reason people are assigning the 7 sins to the jail's? I never really thought about them while playing.

The arena where you fight them is called, for instance, Cage of Lust. I think you also get a trophy when you beat each Jail on the PS version that also mentions the sin.

ApplesandOranges
Jun 22, 2012

Thankee kindly.

Gruckles posted:

When they enter Mementos it's at the subway station entrance with a crowd of people. Ann protests that they can't just vanish into thin air in front of everyone, and Ryuji gives some goofy analogy about "nobody notices pieces of trash vanishing from a trash can" before hitting the button anyway.

The dumb thing is that they can pull people into the Metaverse, even unintentionally, but in a crowd of people, none of them get pulled in... eh?

I'm not even sure you can say 'they need to be a really close distance' since Ann got pulled in in the original P5 at a respectable distance away.

On an unrelated note, one thing I like about Strikers is that the game consistently uses code names in the Jails. So many times in the original you've had people saying 'Ryuji', etc. in the Palace and I'm all 'you idiots'. The only one that's dropped it is Futaba by calling Yusuke Inari once or twice.

ApplesandOranges
Jun 22, 2012

Thankee kindly.
Since you did Okinawa, can I ask if the off-limits ritual site actually means anything? Since Sophia mentions there was no record of an actual site being there, but you never actually visit it and it's basically dropped as soon as you leave.

My offhand guess is that it's where the lab director's body is, but there's no outright confirmation.

Also I don't know if you can thank all the VAs from your end, but they all did a smashing job. Ryuji and Futaba were highlights for me but everyone had some good moments. (Though I will say I noticed one instance of inconsistent pronunciation, specifically that Haru pronounces Hiiragi differently from everyone else before going after the first Trauma Cell).

ApplesandOranges
Jun 22, 2012

Thankee kindly.
I'm not sure about one of them, but I'm pretty sure Joylent is a parody of Soylent.

e:fb

ApplesandOranges
Jun 22, 2012

Thankee kindly.
It's also when you find out that 'ugh, I picked up a Jack Frost mask again?'

Also just about wrapping up the compendium in NG+ Merciless. I can actually craft Lucifer right now. Then it's just bond EXP and then I'm.... done? The Merciless journey has been interesting so far, not sure if I'll finish the game with it but it's good.

ApplesandOranges
Jun 22, 2012

Thankee kindly.
Yeah they're actually fairly lenient on mission requirements? I think the only time they're a little stricter on it was one mission where you had to kill 10 enemies with Sophie, I think she had to land the killing blow or have her lead into a killing AoA or something.

Not a huge issue since those enemies are weak to Guns, but yeah.

ApplesandOranges
Jun 22, 2012

Thankee kindly.

Twelve by Pies posted:

Yeah I noticed pretty early on that for the "defeat x with weakness" missions you didn't have to land the finishing blow with it, as long as you'd used the weakness on them at some point. When I did the Mothman one, that was actually when I found out that every character has a slightly different gun, as I basically hadn't been using guns at all until that point. So then I found out that Ann has a machine gun and that Haru has a loving grenade launcher.

Ann is actually lowkey really good with her gun since it has tons of ammo and is a great way to mow down Shot-weak bosses. In the original P5 it had the issue of being random target but here with a targetable scope it's like, suddenly good to pump a clip of free damage when she's low on SP. If you get all the ammo upgrades it has 200 ammo.

I think Morgana has the worst 'gun'? I dunno the slingshot is kinda boring but it has a memorable design, I don't even remember what gun Makoto uses.

ApplesandOranges
Jun 22, 2012

Thankee kindly.
You also have Amrita for status healing, and Recarm for revival.

The second tier of spells is just weird naming wise, because you have Bufula, Garula, Freila, Zionga, Eiga, Kouga... and then just different ones altogether like Agilao, Diarama and Psio.

Honestly it's much better in P5(S) because anything that's non-status has a handy icon like fire or snowflake next to it so at least you can tell at a glance what element it hits or if it's a heal/buff/debuff. You then just have to work out buffs and debuffs.

ApplesandOranges
Jun 22, 2012

Thankee kindly.
I think JP still pronounces it as 'Maha' for the prefix? I vaguely remember JP Yukiko saying 'Maharagi' in P4A, but my memory of that game is a few years ago.

It's actually kinda neat hearing some JP pronounciations, because Caesar becomes Kaizer, Artemisia is pronounced as 'Aru-temisia', and Isis is 'Ee-sis'. I haven't heard how the JP cast handles the P5 Personas though. Goemon is Japanese so that's straightforward at least.

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ApplesandOranges
Jun 22, 2012

Thankee kindly.
Garu and Zio also already make sense if you associate them with 'Garuda' and 'Zap' from other JRPGs/terminology. Media is similar to Medic or Medica.

The Raku/Taru/Suku terms are probably the most confusing of the bunch but pattern recognition and repeated use just drills it in you after a while.

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