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can there actually be politics that aren't left or right without being * Third Positionism postwar fascism/neo-Nazism that cowardly hides its right-wing nature * Third Way (neo)liberalism that cowardly hides its right-wing nature * technocratic "neither left nor right" radical centrism that cowardly its right-wing nature * the occasional libertarian that hides that cowardly his right-wing nature this ain't a centrism thread but centrism both in its technocractic/populist incarnations and the no-labels "we need less partisanship and more decorum in politics" forms often does this what about Green politics
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Feb 19, 2021 21:23
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there can not.
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Feb 19, 2021 21:26
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the conceptualization of politics as a two dimensional line (or euclidean plane) that we should place ourselves is a deliberate neoliberal invention and we would do well to free our minds from this cartesian paradigm. but how do we even think about this?
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Feb 19, 2021 21:29
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a few DRUNK BONERS posted:the conceptualization of politics as a two dimensional line (or euclidean plane) that we should place ourselves is a deliberate neoliberal invention and we would do well to free our minds from this cartesian paradigm. but how do we even think about this? well I drink a lot
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Feb 19, 2021 21:31
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where's Sun Ra fall on the facebook meme political compass
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Feb 19, 2021 21:32
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a different kind of politics?
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Feb 19, 2021 21:34
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adam curtis has joined the chat.
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Feb 19, 2021 21:36
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turd way
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Feb 19, 2021 21:38
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Feb 19, 2021 21:38
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are there any perspectives that can truly be said to not fall on the spectrum that says liberals who want an app to give homeless people investment advice on the go and anprims who believe we should roll back the last fifty millennia and spend our days foraging for nuts and idly loving in a field like the bonobo are basically the same thing
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Feb 19, 2021 21:40
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Jellidelic posted:adam curtis has joined the chat. isn't he the rare example of not posing as left nor right, but is probably left-wing? though I did read his avowed views and they sound like apolitical incoherence quote:Curtis will trenchantly defend his films and his arguments, but his personal politics are more obscure. Most people assume that he is on the left because of his long association with the BBC, his discerning taste in electronic music, and his sustained distrust of international finance and tech oligopolies. He likes the idea of a universal basic income. But when I asked Curtis if his depiction of contemporary Western citizens as atomized consumers, hooked on fictionalized versions of themselves, came from his own yearning for a more collectivist politics, he shook his head. “No. You can’t put individualism back in the box,” he replied. “I mean, I’m an arch individualist and I know it in myself.” Curtis often refers to himself as a creature of his time, which he sees as defined by the self-expression of the sixties and the go-go capitalism that won the Cold War and then markedly accelerated. Like other periods, it will come to an end. “It’s a moment,” Curtis said. “The way we live now is the product of hyper-individualism. . . . And it’s now become a sort of giant baroque thing, which you meet on Instagram and you meet on TikTok and you meet in my films.” A Wizard of Goatse posted:anprims who believe we should roll back the last fifty millennia and spend our days foraging for nuts and idly loving in a field like the bonobo are basically the same thing anprimitivism is an umbrella ideology that can be subdivided into left and right groups, probably
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Feb 19, 2021 22:00
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Maximo Roboto posted:anprimitivism is an umbrella ideology that can be subdivided into left and right groups, probably im currently on day 5 of being an anprim and it's not been great
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Feb 19, 2021 22:05
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I believe that Muammar Gaddafi showed us the way forward with The Green Book.
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Feb 19, 2021 22:08
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Hmm much to think about...
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Feb 19, 2021 22:08
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Feb 19, 2021 22:24
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The concept of being "above" politics is always either an excuse for status quo apologetics or a cover for truly monstrous ideology that you would just prefer no one ask questions about But that said if you're going to, call it z-axis politics and smugly tell others they're two dimensional thinkers like Spock in Wrath of Khan
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Feb 19, 2021 22:36
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OP already says no Third Way!!! triangulators gtfo
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Feb 19, 2021 22:51
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a few DRUNK BONERS posted:the conceptualization of politics as a two dimensional line (or euclidean plane) that we should place ourselves is a deliberate neoliberal invention and we would do well to free our minds from this cartesian paradigm. but how do we even think about this? it goes back to the french revolution, so it's can't be a product of neoliberalism, which emerged much more recently
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Feb 20, 2021 00:09
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a politic's to surpass metal gear
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Feb 20, 2021 00:15
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left/right politics exist as long as capitalism exists. after capitalism, there will be different politics.
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Feb 20, 2021 00:23
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the dialectic forbids this
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Feb 20, 2021 00:31
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Maximo Roboto posted:isn't he the rare example of not posing as left nor right, but is probably left-wing? what characteristics would determine if someone is wanting to be a caveman in a left or rightwing way A Wizard of Goatse has issued a correction as of 00:34 on Feb 20, 2021 |
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Feb 20, 2021 00:31
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anprimitivism wants to revert to pre-capitalist conditions so sure they could be different but i dont see anyone in the modern world successfully breaking away like that uncontacted tribes do not have left/right politics
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Feb 20, 2021 00:36
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Yes but what does it actually say to describe it in terms as vacuous as left/right, does that actually mean anything applied to the full spectrum of ideas humans can have about politics and not just the divide between republican capitalists who are willing to tolerate gay people vs. republican capitalists who aren't All ideologies that don't hew extremely close to the center of that discourse have a "how do we get there from here" problem, I'm not sure how that's pertinent unless you're implying that politics outside of Trump v. Biden doesn't really exist A Wizard of Goatse has issued a correction as of 01:10 on Feb 20, 2021 |
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Feb 20, 2021 00:48
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people who are active and engaged and explicitly describe their politics this way are most likely lying but imo when your average normie adjacent joe rogan listener say they fall into this category they sincerely believe it
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Feb 20, 2021 01:02
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The Oldest Man posted:The concept of being "above" politics is always either an excuse for status quo apologetics or a cover for truly monstrous ideology that you would just prefer no one ask questions about The Fourth Industrial Revolution
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Feb 20, 2021 01:03
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apologia for the status quo is fundamentally right wing so no op
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Feb 20, 2021 01:04
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=df7jOd6HcIY "I do not have a single constructive proposal!" "The only thing we must do now is 'Scrap and Scrap"..." "Annihilate everything that exists!" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGZqOkeYbB0 http://www.warewaredan.com/ "Anarchism + Nationalism = Fascism Welcome to the Fascist Party, our group!"
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Feb 20, 2021 01:32
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTOWIMJkKpc
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Feb 20, 2021 01:43
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it is called space op
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Feb 20, 2021 01:46
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What is left? What is right? What is neither? Hmm...
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Feb 20, 2021 01:47
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It's about the price stabilité.
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Feb 20, 2021 01:58
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Druidism, op. Druids must be True Neutral or else they're posers
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Feb 20, 2021 02:39
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Just spitballing but what about like Game of thrones
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Feb 20, 2021 02:43
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Fat-Lip-Sum-41.mp3 posted:left/right politics exist as long as capitalism exists. after capitalism, there will be different politics. errr there was Left Opposition, Right Opposition, and good ol' Stalin A Wizard of Goatse posted:what characteristics would determine if someone is wanting to be a caveman in a left or rightwing way there would be people wanting to cosplay peaceful pre-agricultural societies built on mutualism and lack of hierarchy, and others who would cosplay barbarian warlords built on oppression and slavery
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Feb 20, 2021 03:44
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politics is a meta process created by society/civilization and the state of the means of production/ownership and its relationship to the masses, it's not a binary left/right, but more of a gradient between preserving and strengthening those relationships or seeking to abolish them and create new relationships, and everywhere in between the current base/superstructure. you can't abolish the superstructure (neoliberalism) without fundamentally altering the base (private enterprise). the means of production are meaningless without relationships to the people who own/control them, they're just capital, or dead labor. the base/superstructure also would seem to possess mechanisms that recreate itself and reinforce itself, even when assailed vigorously by abolitionists (communists). these are largely due to cultural inertia, socialization, ideological brainwashing through false consciousness, where the values of the benefactors of society are programmed into the masses, subtly, even sinisterly. there are no relationships that exist outside of our global paradigm at this point, nor have there meaningfully existed any for hundreds of years now due to colonization (outside of defeated revolutions, latent revolutions, or.... whatever China is doing), so there are no politics that exist outside of what exists now, that's partly a reason why revolution is so hard to imagine and enact, you gotta start from scratch on a lot of things! if you DO get to that point though, I think competing ideologies/relationships/arrangements can form, there will absolutely be dissention about how to handle certain aspects of the new arrangements, but history tells us we'll probably get another dominant base and create another superstructure, we just have to create one that's more sane/rational/equanimous and vigorously develop it until we can rehab the species. there'll probably still exist a gradient of differing thoughts, but unless you gently caress up real bad and create a psychotic system of contradictions that immiserates a vast majority of people, it'd be difficult to create the conditions of another paradigm shift, because there'd be no incentive to fight and die for one
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Feb 20, 2021 06:54
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everyone is guilty of liberalism in the first degree
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Feb 20, 2021 06:55
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i think plants are the only true centrists
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Feb 20, 2021 07:09
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IMAGINE A NEW DIRECTION IN POLITICS NOT LEFT NOT RIGHT BUT WEST! 
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Feb 20, 2021 07:12
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Big Mad Drongo posted:Druidism, op. Druids must be True Neutral or else they're posers still defined in relation to the political spectrum if the overton window shifts, do Druids shift with it
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Feb 20, 2021 07:21
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