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Scientastic
Mar 1, 2010

TRULY scientastic.
🔬🍒


Lots of people I like playing with are in this game, I will join in

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Scientastic
Mar 1, 2010

TRULY scientastic.
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Jose Valasquez posted:

He's not the boss of me.

Unrelated but we should probably kill JC D1 because he's gonna be trying to kill me this entire game and also it would be really funny

I am board with this plan

Scientastic
Mar 1, 2010

TRULY scientastic.
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##Vote John Cena

Scientastic
Mar 1, 2010

TRULY scientastic.
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##Vote Bif

Scientastic
Mar 1, 2010

TRULY scientastic.
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Using a vig on D1 isn't scummy or townie, but that was loving scummy. Just vig someone for no reason right at the start of the day based on nothing, terrible

Scientastic
Mar 1, 2010

TRULY scientastic.
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I have engaged, now I am off to drink tea and feel sorry for myself. Age has caught up with me

Scientastic
Mar 1, 2010

TRULY scientastic.
🔬🍒


Hal Insandenza posted:

I think that’s a bit reductive for a start of D1 vig, this seems more alignment neutral as I could see scum thinking it’s easy to hide behind the joke rationale and get an easy extra kill in

This is literally exactly my thought process

Scientastic
Mar 1, 2010

TRULY scientastic.
🔬🍒


Grandicap posted:

Exactly. Firing like this doesn't give a scum vig any of the stuff that they want.

What? Yes, it does. It gets them one death closer to their win condition. Your response exactly shows why scum would think they could get away with a D1 vig

Scientastic
Mar 1, 2010

TRULY scientastic.
🔬🍒


Mr. Steak posted:

ive gotta admit im kind of annoyed that bif specifically chose to shoot yami, since yami doesnt exactly sign up for every single game and i like playing with him

This too

Scientastic
Mar 1, 2010

TRULY scientastic.
🔬🍒


Sandwolf posted:

Sci when you awake give me some thoughts

My main thought is that I now have a huge backlog of posts I don’t want to read and not a few that are worth highlighting

Scientastic
Mar 1, 2010

TRULY scientastic.
🔬🍒


Idle Amalgam posted:

Time for Mason Cop Vig

Mason steak or hal
Cop Grandi
Vig Bif

Mason Grandicap
Cop Sandwolf
Vig John Cena

Scientastic
Mar 1, 2010

TRULY scientastic.
🔬🍒


I need to read the IA Grandicap posts again after I’ve had some tea

Scientastic
Mar 1, 2010

TRULY scientastic.
🔬🍒


Scientastic posted:

I need to read the IA Grandicap posts again after I’ve had some tea

I was fully prepared to admit that I was wrong, and that maybe I overreacted to Bif's vig, but I don't think I did. I still think it's Bif.

I reread IA, and he seems sincere and unguarded in his posting. Grandi seems to be reaching, especially for D1.

Scientastic
Mar 1, 2010

TRULY scientastic.
🔬🍒


My gut told me that SIV might be scum, but I reread her posts and I think they're OK

Scientastic
Mar 1, 2010

TRULY scientastic.
🔬🍒


Grandicap posted:

JoseV's response feels mega town to me. I don't think scum would put that much deliberation in basically side stepping the question. Feels a lot like SiV's response to the game in Bernie.

I agree, I read Jose's response to Sandwolf as really townie.

Scientastic
Mar 1, 2010

TRULY scientastic.
🔬🍒


Sandwolf posted:

But then why not just say shoot bif instead of this “I’d shoot bif but then again maybe not because she’s a viable lunch candidate today”? That feels like you know Bif could eat it today and are okay with that happening like that, but if you thought Bif was scum wouldn’t you just want her flipped so we could spend the rest of D1 analyzing the fallout of that?

I see what you're driving at here, but I'm not sure I agree: I can see using a vig on someone you think is scummy but that you don't think is going to get executed, otherwise it's kind of a waste of a vig, right?

Scientastic
Mar 1, 2010

TRULY scientastic.
🔬🍒


Sandwolf posted:

Alright new content game you’re one dance from 2000-2020 which are you: I’m the Dougie

I'll be "standing awkwardly" please

Scientastic
Mar 1, 2010

TRULY scientastic.
🔬🍒


Mr. Steak posted:

actually, for kill-flavor reasons, i suspect maybe bif killed sandwolf, which... bif why???

It’s been a while since I played Disco Elysium, what are your flavour reasons?

Scientastic
Mar 1, 2010

TRULY scientastic.
🔬🍒


I should be able to contribute a bit more now, I didn’t realise how much effort I would be putting into WIFOA, I realise now why I stopped playing two games at the same time

Scientastic
Mar 1, 2010

TRULY scientastic.
🔬🍒


Sub Rosa posted:

So three kills?

Bif started as Brute, so one could have been the night vig.

Could be untold redirection going on. Bif's shot could have hit Bif.

This is a good post, immediate analysis and interesting spot on the kill, and good anti-night-action-fuckery, really like Sub Rose just for this one post

Scientastic
Mar 1, 2010

TRULY scientastic.
🔬🍒


Mr. Steak posted:

sandwolf didn't kill bif though

I think in a game that is all power roles, it is risky to draw any conclusions from night actions, which it sounds like you’re doing

Scientastic
Mar 1, 2010

TRULY scientastic.
🔬🍒


I am a bit disappointed with my role, it’s nowhere near as cool as any of the flips

Scientastic
Mar 1, 2010

TRULY scientastic.
🔬🍒


I was looking back at some of the Grandi votes, and Steak’s votes and posts really started making think he was scum who “knew” Grandi was town (or rather, not the same alignment as him) so I went back through his posts.

And then I read his “I think I’m town” post

Steak is essentially confirmed town for me

Scientastic
Mar 1, 2010

TRULY scientastic.
🔬🍒


I’ve reread the posts around Grandicap trying to see signs of knowing his alignment that would indicate scum mind, I might need to do a more thorough read tomorrow morning

Here are my NOTES

Scum mind in votes:

B- (seemed to be VERY sure Grandicap, Bif and Sand were all town)
IA (massively over explained vote on Grandi)
SIV (I don’t like the way she performatively talked herself into the vote)
Toal somewhat (seems a bit overly reluctant)


Townie in posting about Grandi:

Keane
Sub Rosa

Cant tell:

Hal
Cena
Jose
Voodoo

Scientastic
Mar 1, 2010

TRULY scientastic.
🔬🍒


b-minus1 posted:

I don’t like how keane just showed up without any acknowledgement of his absence yesteday. Lurking scum for sure. In fact I’m going to ##vote keane

I really hate this vote. I strongly disagree on your assessment of Keane’s alignment, but more than that, I feel like scum would be more likely to be overly self conscious and apologise for absence. This is a forced vote.

##Vote B-

Scientastic
Mar 1, 2010

TRULY scientastic.
🔬🍒


Toalpaz posted:

i dunno probably steak

How do you square this with the completely in-self-conscious Steak alignment post:

Mr. Steak posted:

i am.... pretty sure im town?

im always nervous to say the flavor of my alignment when its not traditional

I find this to be completely compellingly town, like a child who doesn’t know how to lie yet just saying a thing because he hasn’t the artifice not to

I can’t see scum Steak making that post

Scientastic
Mar 1, 2010

TRULY scientastic.
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Right, so here’s why B- is scum. I’m phoneposting, so forgive me if it’s disjointed.

b-minus1 posted:

John Cena and Jose are my scum reads

Town
Steak
Keane
Sci
Grandi

b-minus1 posted:

##vote grandi out of self preservation but this vote stinks. I’d be willing to bet scum aren’t under any pressure right now.

b-minus1 posted:

##unvote I do not want to vote Grandicap. I would rather vote bif. Or Hal for that awful vote

b-minus1 posted:

##vote siv

b-minus1 posted:

I will not vote Grandicap

b-minus1 posted:

Allow me to rephrase. I will not vote obvious townie Grandicap

b-minus1 posted:

Lets just get siv instead. Anyone else who votes Grandicap is scum

B- betrays knowledge of Grandi’s alignment in his extraordinary and performative reluctance to vote for him

Scientastic
Mar 1, 2010

TRULY scientastic.
🔬🍒


Voodoofly posted:

Science I still don’t see how you are clearing Sub off one post, calling IA scum off one post, and then also clearing steak off one post in a way that makes it sound like steak is too naive to do something performative as scum.

Eh yeah actually ##vote science as I write this it feels like a better vote than SiV.

Because one post is enough to form an opinion.

I’ve been trying to do this more recently, trying to understand the motivation and thinking behind posts, instead of relying on classic scum tells. Largely because all of the things I was told are scum tells when I started playing, that townies should avoid at all costs, all seem to be things that the newer players do all the time.

I read Steak’s post and I find it psychologically townie.

I find Rosa’s post (and posts in general) to be motivated by a townie feeling. That is not to say he is “cleared”, you’re mischaracterising my current impression of their alignment.

I found IA’s vote for Grandicap to be over the top and scummy and put him on my
“scummy enough to pay more attention to” radar. Again, you’re overstating how strongly I have voiced that opinion, he’s on the scummier end of the spectrum because of that post, but you’ll notice I am not voting for him.

I wrote a list of players and judged how I felt about their alignment based on their posts around Grandicap, you’re acting like I’m forcing stronger alignment reads than I’ve actually made.

Except on Steak, he’d have to do something really loving scummy to make me change my mind.

Scientastic
Mar 1, 2010

TRULY scientastic.
🔬🍒


I don’t understand why Voodoofly is so antsy about making an alignment call off one post.

In my experience, one scummy post is how you start realising that someone is scum. And that one scummy post is sometimes all you need.

Scientastic
Mar 1, 2010

TRULY scientastic.
🔬🍒


Jose Valasquez posted:

I dislike both the first post and Sci's response to it. Night action speculation isn't inherently townie and it gives scum an easy thing to talk about without giving actual reads.

This is interesting to me: I initially read Sub Rosa’s post as saying “let’s not put too much weight on night actions, because there could be all sorts going on”, which is what I found townie.

But actually, you’re right, I think I read it through the lens of my own thinking, and it’s not saying what I thought.

Scientastic
Mar 1, 2010

TRULY scientastic.
🔬🍒


Voodoofly posted:


Idle Amalgam posted:

I think grandi is a good vote from the day if meta is allowed in our toolkits lol

Based upon our last two games together where he was scum, as he himself has explained, and his similar behavior in this game.

However, if grandi is town. I have no reads and am garbage.

The latter applies anyhow.

##vote grandi

This is the over explained vote?

Yes, it is a scummy vote

Scientastic
Mar 1, 2010

TRULY scientastic.
🔬🍒


b-minus1 posted:

It’s siv. The person you have wanted to lunch since yesterday. I don’t think you really missed this.

I’m not sure we should be making judgement calls about whether we believe VF’s recollection of D1 when he has been very clear about why he didn’t have his mind on the game.

Scientastic
Mar 1, 2010

TRULY scientastic.
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Rereading Rosa, I am rescinding my town call, I was misinterpreting what was being said.

Reading it back, I can’t for the life of me understand what I was thinking, I completely read it wrong in a way, just looking for what I wanted to see rather than what was written.

It’s literally the opposite of what I thought it was, it’s incredible to me that I read it wrong.

Scientastic
Mar 1, 2010

TRULY scientastic.
🔬🍒


Sub Rosa posted:

Is this just a lie? b- used the dark arts (unless I'm misinterpreting I think in the same way steak did) and they said you were in fact on the forums.

I can't see any posts from Keane anywhere other than mafia games, so I don't think we can draw that conclusion

Scientastic
Mar 1, 2010

TRULY scientastic.
🔬🍒


I buy the lurking accusation if people are posting on other forums, but not if they just appear in the online users.

People leave their computers on all the time, in a recent game Grandicap was on SA on a tab on his phone like 24h after he had last been actually active online and presumably would have shown up as an online user.

You can't accuse someone of lurking just for not being around, if CCKeane was active in another game or another forum at the same time, then fine, but lurking is different to "not posting"

Scientastic
Mar 1, 2010

TRULY scientastic.
🔬🍒


Scientastic posted:

if they just appear in the online users

Assuming this is what Rosa/B- are driving at

Scientastic
Mar 1, 2010

TRULY scientastic.
🔬🍒


Voodoofly posted:

So are you still defending your “this one post by sub is totally town” when I said it’s scummy and threw me off while also admitting you completely read it wrong and it was saying the opposite of why you called him town based off just that one post?

What, no, how did you read it like that? I’m saying that I drew the wrong conclusion from Sub’s post and I shouldn’t have. Where do you get the idea that I am defending that stance.

I’m trying to admit I was wrong. It doesn’t come naturally.

Scientastic
Mar 1, 2010

TRULY scientastic.
🔬🍒


Voodoofly posted:

Wait is the lurker argument not just that people weren’t around but also that they were “online” or logged in to the forums but not posting?

Because that is even dumber than just calling people out for not being around in general.

I have seen people make this argument in the past, and yes, it is very dumb

I don’t know that we can assume that’s what B- is doing, though: Rosa is saying that, but I see no evidence that B- is doing anything other than calling out people who aren’t posting enough

Which is also dumb, just not as dumb

Scientastic
Mar 1, 2010

TRULY scientastic.
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I think I already said that I was taking back my town call, but I haven’t had time to do enough of a thorough reread in that new context

My concern would be that my initial impression was overly influenced by my misreading of that post, so I need to take some time to retrain my brain to the idea that Sub isn’t townie and read their posts in a less potentially biased way

So no alignment call on Sub right now, maybe I can read again later

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Scientastic
Mar 1, 2010

TRULY scientastic.
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Idle Amalgam posted:

Lol what makes my grandi vote scummy exactly? Just so I can know for future reference.

Sure.

Idle Amalgam posted:

I think grandi is a good vote from the day if meta is allowed in our toolkits lol1

Based upon our last two games together where he was scum, as he himself has explained2, and his similar behavior in this game.

However, if grandi is town. I have no reads and am garbage3.

The latter applies anyhow.

##vote grandi

1. Explaining that you are going to use meta, while self-consciously acknowledging that you shouldn't, preempting any attack on your use of meta
2. Blaming Grandicap for your read if you're wrong, you get to distance yourself from actually making that call yourself
3. Preempting the idea that you are wrong, distancing yourself again from any blame

The whole post is self-consciously attempting to remove any negative consequences for the vote. As it turns out, Grandi was SK, but scum wouldn't know that, they would naturally (I think) assume that if Grandi wasn't on their team, he's town, so try to get him executed while maintaining a healthy distance from the execution itself

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