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While various experiences from various people from various conscription based armies occasionally pop up elsewhere I thought I'd make a thread for talking about experiences in them. The US haven't had national service since the Vietnam or something, but here in Finland it's still going on. I did mine in 2002 so it's been a while since I was there, but back then the FDF had either 6, 9 or 12 months of service (which has changed since). There was the option to instead to unarmed service (you would serve in a garrison but not carry a weapon) or civilian service (2 weeks of training in non military related things and then 13 months (then, less now) helping in a care home, a library or something similar). If you refused to serve at all you would (and still do) get 6 months in a low-security prison. Universal to all male citizens, people with 2 different citizenships don't need to serve if you have served in the other country. I met a dude with both Turkish and Finnish citizenships, unsurprisingly he chose to serve in Finland. My grandfather who served in 1948 knew someone who had a Finnish and a German parent and had been forced into Hitler Jugend combat unit (I think he told my grandfather he flew some sort of bomber) at the end of WW2. As he became of adult age when he was living in Finland after the war he got conscripted (again). Here it used to be, back in the 70's and 80's, that going for the civilian service could hurt your chances of landing certain jobs. It might still, in a super conservative area, but there aren't many of those. After about 3 months of basic training some are (after various tests) selected for NCO training and from them, a smaller part for reserve officer training. If you want to become an active duty officer you must get at least the NCO training while in the service, though it is possible to apply for it afterwards (though there aren't many places in that). After your service is over you can apply to study at the Defence Academy and, if you graduate, you are an active officer. So there isn't a way of becoming an officer without going through the basic training as a grunt. For my part spending 9 months away from my family after high school was super welcome, but there are people who didn't have such a good time. Also, you don't get actual pay as a conscript, but a daily allowance of 5,20€ which goes up if you serve more than 6 months. You don't need to buy your own gear but back when I was in the rule was that you could use your own socks and other stuff that isn't visible from beneath of your clothes. So, ask away or tell your stories of the strange things you did or ate.
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Feb 26, 2021 11:56
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Here is a nice reference picture of the camo stuff we had back then, this has a nice 1960's pattern belt/webbing that wasn't in active use, but the cucumber salad camo can be seen. There was a more modern uniform used in parades etc, but this was what you had while in the woods.
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Feb 26, 2021 11:58
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SMEGMA_MAIL posted:Are you telling me you are allowed to wear WHITE SOCKS Sure, if you could keep your sergeant from seeing them. And if you spent time in the woods you wouldn't take your shoes all that much. It's not like anyone sees the colour of your socks in a tent anyway.
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Feb 26, 2021 18:37
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maffew buildings posted:I wish the US would do something like this, but we would still somehow gently caress it up to select for the absolute worst people. I think we started it early after the Finnish civil war of 1918. I think the reason for that was to avoid forming an upper class of officers that knew nothing about the men they might command in a war situation. Or possibly the simple logistics of it. Give someone a few months of basic training. If they haven't injured themselves too much they can get nco/reserve officer training. Once they have gotten that and served as one for some months you can sorta see if they are worth the effort of getting (initially) 1,5 years of training.
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Feb 26, 2021 19:46
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Gatac posted:
My dad had the same, went in at 26 because he had gotten it deferred due to studies. Also, back in 2002 it was for us very much like you describe for the NVA. Having a long ground border to Russia is kinda the reason most people take the service rather seriously still. Drills, camping in tent for weeks (though for my unit not for several weeks in a row), the works. One of my strangest memories was marching in a parade like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rdp3LWlyuso There were cops on horses in front of us and one horse started making GBS threads on the street a few meters ahead of the company. There was no space to avoid it, so one line of the marching soldiers stomped straight through the fresh shitheap, splashing it everywhere.
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Feb 27, 2021 22:07
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Miloshe posted:That is some of the sloppiest drill I have ever loving seen and it makes me love the Finns all the more for it. Yeah, even for the folks who do it aren't doing it full time, its just one thing among many others.
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Feb 27, 2021 23:00
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Valtonen posted:Aside from that and knowing that börje brotell is a tank demigod, Thats about it. Oh, and like 4 lectures on why Finland needs conscription, and a propaganda video How we are totally qualified real soldiers. Yeah, pretty much the same experience. We had a memorial room of the regiment (Kaartin Jääkärirykmentti / Guard's Jaeger Regiment) which had a few old flags, mannequins in old uniforms and that kind of stuff. Meant more for a few days during the year when civilians could visit the garrison. There would be some grunts showing them around and talking about gear. And Yellow Nation, indeed. Omnipresent and dastardly cunning. Me and some friends thought about volunteering for reservist events, going in for being the agressors of the conscripts (the Yellow Nation combatants) and making the Battle Flag of the Yellow Nation, with a huge skull and two crossed sausages.
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Mar 1, 2021 08:49
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Miloshe posted:If there's anything comparable in conscripted forces I'd be interested to hear about it, especially those sharing land borders with Russia. Did you receive similar simplistic propaganda? Was it openly discussed who you were preparing to go to war with? What kind of unique national military history was taught and how? The lectures, "why fight" etc weren't really that simplistic at 2002 even. I think there was a sort of "the army makes you a man" thing in earlier decades, but it wasn't very much around by the time I was in. Since the military history of independent Finland consists of a Civil War and WW2 there aren't any recent wars to talk about. There was a bit of a talk of what might happen if there was a war, what your unit would do etc, but not really anything of the "we are the best rah rah rah" - thing you see in bigger countries. These films are quite telling, both called "Battlefield" and are a short film about how the political situation might escalate into a war and what it might look like. The first one is from 1998: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJvrY04r8io The second from 2020: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTmWCbcYwb8 Both start with a fake news broadcast about rising tensions etc, with eventually armed conflict breaking out. The agressor state is not named (but is implied to be Russia, kinda). There was, back then, and still sorta is, the mentality that people don't think that there will be an outright shooting war anytime soon, but who knowns what might happen. There is quite a contrast to this film, "The Defenders": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-En5SIa0QE Which is from 1988, so Cold War era, with the Soviet Union still in the picture. From the occupation of Czheshoslovakia in 1968 until the end of the Cold War the Finnish defense mentality was centered around Aluepuolustus, a doctrine where the country was split into semi-independent military areas that could operate without each other. The idea was that if a 1968 "occupy the capitol and crush the government" - thing happens it won't decapitate the defense effort. Near the end of the Cold War the Finnish reserve was something like 500,000 men to be mobilized if the war breaks out, but things have changed since.
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Mar 1, 2021 10:17
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Steezo posted:God forbid they make me do anything fun at AT this year, you mind if I steal that flag idea? Go ahead! If you can, please post a picture once it's done.
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Mar 7, 2021 19:27
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Oh, just came across this. A Finnish dude wrote a study on the social dynamics of a Finnish infantry company after WW2 and it seems there is a free, official English translation: https://www.doria.fi/handle/10024/74160
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Mar 9, 2021 15:11
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Grimnarsson posted:I'm reading this and getting the itch to read Väinö Linna's The Unknown Soldier again. Thanks for the link! No probs, someone posted it in the Finnish politics thread and I thought people here might also be interested.
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Mar 13, 2021 10:31
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Also, there is a thing contrasted to the US I have noticed while reading these forums. To me it seems that any person who has been in the various US services is considered a veteran. While this might technically be true to persons who have served in any army it really isn't used that way in Finland. Usually if you talk about veterans it means veterans of WW2 (since Finland hasn't been in an actual shooting war inside its borders since that), or the rare few who have seen combat in the armies of other nations (for example in the French Foreign Legion). If you have the official status of veteran you get certain benefits. Since quite a few Finns have been UN Peacekeepers I think there has been talk of recognizing them as "veterans of crisis management", to recognize their efforts but to tell them apart from the veterans of WW2. I would be weirded out if I was called a veteran, since while I did my national service I have never been close to a situation where I could have gotten shot at by actual hostile combatants.
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Mar 13, 2021 10:37
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stinkypete posted:What was the best meal you looked forward to and what was the worst? Anyone and all can comment. Best meal? Anything after a day in the woods really, I can't remember what the things we ate during camps were, but you run around hours with your gear and anything will do. We didn't really have MRE's, barring some very few exceptions there was always hot food. Worst was "sunny" or "summery" meat sauce. Brown meat sauce with oranges or something like that chopped into it. It would have been nice if you had had brown meat sauce with a whole orange on the side, to be peeled and eaten separetedly. But put together it was dire.
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Mar 16, 2021 11:58
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https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/finnish-army-simulator#/ So some folks are making a game about the Finnish conscript service, in the style of My Summer Car.
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Apr 5, 2021 16:58
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Also, trailer for that game here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CGHXeQz6gI
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Apr 5, 2021 19:28
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So getting back to this after a while. The Finnish defence force was found as a strange mix of Swedish/Russian/German traditions and influences and some of it shows even today. The whole thing about drilling in a three-sided square, hot food being almost always available, even in the woods (thanks to towable field kitchens, I think the Germans had ones called goulash-kanone?), taking the terms for senior sergeants from Swedish/German/Russian (vääpeli from feldwebel, instead of master sergeant or sergeant major). And early FDF had a truly spectacular mix of gear from just about every nation that ever made weapons. Less random nowadays, but for example back in the 90's/early 2000's the FDF operated Soviet/DDR tanks and apc's along with Hornet fighters. Also, since material owned by the FDF is usually stamped with a tower logo and the words SA-INT (meaning something like "Finnish Army (Suomen Armeija) - Intendentuurilaitos (material department, but the word is super archaic) the tower is kinda part of Finnish slang. Rumours of dubious nature you hear in the service? Tower rumours. Unspecified faffing around for seemingly for no purpose? Tower business. And that logo also serves to tell apart actual property of the FDF and copies made for civilian use. Makes it easier to tell in some cases (but not all, quite a bit of older gear has been sold off) if people are selling things stolen from the FDF. Also, Finnish gun laws are quite strict and you pretty much can't legally own the RK-62 or RK-95 rifles, at least not the ones capable of full auto fire.
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Jul 19, 2021 23:00
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