Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
chaosbreather
Dec 9, 2001

Wry and wise,
but also very sexual.



This paper called Fast Factoring Integers by SVP Algorithms is making the rounds that was given this statement in the precis, spelt "destroyes". Paper is fulla maths so it could be legit or just bullshit, I don't know.

What I do know is what RSA is -- that's one of the most common cryptography algorithms that protects a bunch of things from being hosed with by bad guys, most notably all your secure internet connections. The 's' in https, that padlock, that's more often than not RSA. The forums aren't, they're elliptic curve, which is different, but tons of sites use RSA, including Google. The way it works is that you generate two massive prime numbers, which is pretty easy for computers to do, and then you multiply them together, which is also very easy for computers to do. You keep those primes private, that's the private key. Then you publish the product of those primes, that's the public key. When someone wants to send you a message, they turn the message into a big number (data is already numbers in computers so that's free), and just calculate the that number to the power of the secret key. Now the only way to get it is to know the private key, or figure out the private key by trying to factorise a massive huge number.

This works because factorising is much much harder than multiplying, and these are huge numbers so that difference really matters. So this paper seems to claim they have a way for that not to be a thing, that would be uh, pretty bad, security wise. RSA is so old, it's basically everywhere, so there's a million places your identity, passwords, credit card, even your straight up money could get stolen. If someone intercepts your bank login, they can log in to your bank and transfer themselves all your money. This has been floated as a kind of Y2K style techno-apocalypse, quite a lot, but it was always like, "nah mathematicians are almost positive that it's impossible to factorise primes fast, at least without quantum computers, and they're years away, we have plenty of time." It would be pretty crazy if they were wrong.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

low key sex master
May 27, 2004






I've read this post top to bottom like five times and have absolutely no idea what the hell it's about

Like there's some mathematical formula that will kill cryptology or something? Am I close? The first sentence alone is

chaosbreather
Dec 9, 2001

Wry and wise,
but also very sexual.



low key sex master posted:

I've read this post top to bottom like five times and have absolutely no idea what the hell it's about

Like there's some mathematical formula that will kill cryptology or something? Am I close? The first sentence alone is

Yeah, maybe, or it could be like a timecube guy.

Three Olives
Apr 10, 2005

I just wonder what the First Lady's boobs are up to!


Just imagine believing that RSA hasn't been severely compromised by the NSA for at least two decades when they went from gently caress RSA to RSA FOR EVERYONE, IT'S ALL COOL NOW!

Everyone that has paid any attention to RSA at all knows it was obviously severely compromised and just a matter of time before the shoe dropped.

edit: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...EA2U0TY20140331

a few DRUNK BONERS
Mar 25, 2016



I would simply use bigger numbers op

Drunk Nerds
Jan 25, 2011

Just close your eyes

Fun Shoe

I now understand how chuds feel when anyone who knows anything is talking about anything: Extreme inferiority complex and resentment.

You are just believing in Big ... uh... Numbers!

Play
Apr 25, 2006

So I roll with a rolling thunder
And I howl with the howling wind
And I drift downstream for as long as it takes
To get up and around the bend

Comparing it to the y2k bug ain't doing this any favors

chaosbreather
Dec 9, 2001

Wry and wise,
but also very sexual.



Three Olives posted:

Just imagine believing that RSA hasn't been severely compromised by the NSA for at least two decades when they went from gently caress RSA to RSA FOR EVERYONE, IT'S ALL COOL NOW!

Everyone that has paid any attention to RSA at all knows it was obviously severely compromised and just a matter of time before the shoe dropped.

edit: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...EA2U0TY20140331

This is pretty terrifying poo poo. I heard about the NSA trying to trick or legislate dumb dumbs into using their terrible schemes with back doors but it always seemed comically inept and obvious. That they’d plant poo poo into security companies is pretty gross.

Dang It Bhabhi!
May 27, 2004

Every idiot can count to one.


This is why I only drink filtered rainwater and grain alcohol.

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

hes dead


Nap Ghost

this is iterative advancement on general number field sieve and i dont think the polytime argument goes thru because the poo poo hes claiming is iid is not iid

Lil Swamp Booger Baby
Aug 1, 1981

MTV




First they'll have to destroy my rear end

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

hes dead


Nap Ghost

also the empirical results are comparing w straight face a result from 1993

Famethrowa
Oct 5, 2012



I'll believe it when this is corroborated by an expert writing in English

meat police
Nov 14, 2015



But can I crunch numbers into a speculative asset

Strawberry Pyramid
Dec 12, 2020


so what, are they claiming they turned the np problem of rsa into a p problem with One Weird Trick, Cryptographers Hate It! or something

endlessmonotony
Nov 4, 2009


These are some bad posts, but they're not as bad as OOCC. I pray you recover enough to someday throw OOCC's keyboard into the sea and claim your rightful role as the worst C-SPAM poster.

Strawberry Pyramid posted:

so what, are they claiming they turned the np problem of rsa into a p problem with One Weird Trick, Cryptographers Hate It! or something

tl;dr just take what bob dobbs is dead is saying as true. That nerd has dug deeper into the subject than anyone sane.

MrQueasy
Nov 15, 2005

Quit shakin' me, kid!

Strawberry Pyramid posted:

so what, are they claiming they turned the np problem of rsa into a p problem with One Weird Trick, Cryptographers Hate It! or something

From a skim, it looks like they found a way to efficiently solve the np problem in an efficient amount of time using matrices for most cases. Kind of like A* pathing.

r u ready to WALK
Sep 29, 2001



wake me up when someone breaks the algorithm that bitcoin uses and all the musky techbros end up penniless

ben shapino
Nov 22, 2020
Probation
Can't post for 4 hours!


I added an exclamation mark to the end of all my passwords. I'm good.

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

hes dead


Nap Ghost

like, if you have a real beefy for an academic thing you can factor semiprimes on the order of 2^1000something straightforwardly. the nsa w its datacenter in utah can probably squeeze out a hundred or so extra bits of size. you need something like 2^3000ish to start breaking poo poo that peeps use for money. theyre demoing on 10^14

Xenocides
Jan 14, 2008

This world looks very scary....



Isn’t this the plot of the movie “Sneakers”?

Cubone
May 26, 2011

Because it never leaves its bedroom, no one has ever seen this poster's real face.

why is this dated 31.10.2019?

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

hes dead


Nap Ghost

we dunno the relation of np completeness w factoring. factoring would be whacked by quantum computers whereas we dunno if np complete would be whacked

quantum computers will realistically take 10 figures and 3 decades of investment before a decent one becomes available to intelligence agencies. its not gonna be a general compute dealio, its gonna be shoved into application specific poo poo

ScRoTo TuRbOtUrD
Jan 21, 2007



human garbage bag
Jan 8, 2020



If they broke RSA then they could easily demonstrate it by posting the private key of a random public key found online. Since they didn't it's at most an improvement over the existing best polynomial time algorithm.

The funny thing about P=NP is that proving P=NP is as simple as providing just one solution to a big enough problem, but a disproof would probably span an entire book and give the discoverer a harem of math groupies in every university around the world.

ScRoTo TuRbOtUrD
Jan 21, 2007



human garbage bag posted:

If they broke RSA then they could easily demonstrate it by posting the private key of a random public key found online. Since they didn't it's at most an improvement over the existing best polynomial time algorithm.

The funny thing about P=NP is that proving P=NP is as simple as providing just one solution to a big enough problem, but a disproof would probably span an entire book and give the discoverer a harem of math groupies in every university around the world.

i like this reality you have constructed, where whoever published the article had to do it online out pure logistics. you know, because during live math conferences they were drowned out over the sound of being on sucked for hours on end by calcusluts

ClamdestineBoyster
Aug 15, 2015



That sounds super op but couldn’t anyone just hold down the 1 key on the keyboard and write to the same memory address until it breaks the prime number cryptography?

ScRoTo TuRbOtUrD
Jan 21, 2007



ClamdestineBoyster posted:

That sounds super op but couldn’t anyone just hold down the 1 key on the keyboard and write to the same memory address until it breaks the prime number cryptography?

you dont even need to press down 1. i spilled my special widecap gatorade bottle on my keyboard and im pretty sure i broke all the prime cryptojiggies

r u ready to WALK
Sep 29, 2001



ClamdestineBoyster posted:

That sounds super op but couldn’t anyone just hold down the 1 key on the keyboard and write to the same memory address until it breaks the prime number cryptography?

hell yeah i'm in

ClamdestineBoyster
Aug 15, 2015



ScRoTo TuRbOtUrD posted:

you dont even need to press down 1. i spilled my special widecap gatorade bottle on my keyboard and im pretty sure i broke all the prime cryptojiggies

Yeah why do all the work? You could just as easily tape a pencil to an exercise weight and prop that up against an upside down coffee mug to hold the key down. Then you could do whatever you want.

Poohs Packin
Jan 13, 2019

My god, Winston, is that infernal sun still giving my buttocks that entirely too cool smirk?!


Destroyed OP's moms RSA cryptosystem (rear end)

Deep Glove Bruno
Sep 4, 2015

Feel the glove!


ClamdestineBoyster posted:

Yeah why do all the work? You could just as easily tape a pencil to an exercise weight and prop that up against an upside down coffee mug to hold the key down. Then you could do whatever you want.

can you please diagram this i'm not a cryptography expert

Meredith Baxter-Burnout
Jul 4, 2003

It's okay to watch child porn if you don't touch your dick, just raises awareness man.



r u ready to WALK posted:

hell yeah i'm in



I saw a video about how that is a valid Win 95 key. Really wild, crazy stuff.

gallilee
Jul 24, 2001

Legion of Rainy Day Buddhists

I work with cryptography and I had a hard time to parse that paper But thanks for it, it was an interesting read nonetheless.

Agreed that asymmetric cryptography as it is used today is not good enough. I am trying to implement a “post-quantum cryptography” project at my job but it mostly falls to deaf ears since people still live with the assumption that asymmetric cryptography is in no way running the risk of getting cracked, and that’s infuriating as hell.

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

hes dead


Nap Ghost

the only thing that anybody sane will guarantee you will never be cracked is one time pad. good luck actually doin one time pad lol

Chef Boyardeez Nuts
Sep 9, 2011

You're not getting another fucking dime from us, Lowtax

There isn't a government on earth that wouldn't kill us all for that thing.

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

hes dead


Nap Ghost

it used to be that the govt crypto agencies were far far ahead of commercial and academic everything but hey guess what the nsa pays the equation group 75k usd and google pays its interns, annualized, 90k usd

just mysteriously, the commercial places got good peeps too

gallilee
Jul 24, 2001

Legion of Rainy Day Buddhists

Chef Boyardeez Nuts posted:

There isn't a government on earth that wouldn't kill us all for that thing.

drat, I watched Sneakers jus a week ago and it’s amazing how such an old film still holds up regarding the techbabble/social engineering aspect.

Mooey Cow
Jan 27, 2018



Pillbug

Lol just lol if you don't use elliptic curves

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Smugworth
Apr 18, 2003

Well, I've got brain damage on the side of my brain, and I don't know which side, left or right, where I huffed gasoline for ten long years.




bob dobbs is dead posted:

it used to be that the govt crypto agencies were far far ahead of commercial and academic everything but hey guess what the nsa pays the equation group 75k usd and google pays its interns, annualized, 90k usd

just mysteriously, the commercial places got good peeps too

I gave my resume to the NSA when I was about to graduate. They were recruiting from a supercomputing convention for people knowledgeable in, you guessed it, the supercomputing field.

We happened to be there as students running a very expensive server rack full of high grade CPUs and GPUs in a competition with other student teams from universities across the US, Germany, China, and other countries, where one of the challenges was cracking hashed and sometimes salted passwords. We did great but one of the Chinese teams had more GPUs than CPUs and took the competition.

Anyway, the NSA's job listings are full of super boring Turbodork Analyst Level II and Computer Toucher Level I in Virginia or Utah (where the big spooky data center is) or some other boring city paying, as you say, peanuts compared to private tech companies. I ghosted the recruiter pretty hard because it was all very unappealing, and I didn't want to have to tell the government about every joint I'd ever smoked and list everybody I'd ever had a conversation with in the last 20 years for a background check.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply